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Thread: Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed

  1. #301
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    Susan Rice ✔ @AmbassadorRice

    Russia’s military incursions into Ukraine- artillery, air def systems, dozens of tanks & military personnel–represent significant escalation



    Susan Rice ✔ @AmbassadorRice

    Repeated Russian incursions into Ukraine unacceptable. Dangerous and inflammatory

  2. #302
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    ConflictReporter @MiddleEast_BRK

    #BREAKING Reuters confirms "little green men" -Russian soldiers- take over villages in Donetsk
    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...40826?irpc=932 … pic.twitter.com/WReTiaERl8


    "Unidentified, heavily-armed strangers with Russian accents have appeared in an eastern Ukrainian village" http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...40826?irpc=932


    Video Shows Column of Russian Vehicles, Manned By Chechen Fighters,On Ukraine's Border http://youtu.be/RNCP8qvoYtU

    Little #Russia green men in #Donetsk region, note how masking insignia in same way as reported by POW:s.
    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...40826?irpc=932
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-26-2014 at 09:41 PM.

  3. #303
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    Out of the Ukrainian events---social media seems to work better for getting the truth out than all western leaders seem to not want to do.


    Alexander Morozenko @ukrainik

    the image that forced RU MoD "lost" statement
    RU army POW captured by UA authorities
    pic sent to RU w supporting doc

    pic.twitter.com/e8eyD219rR

    Video of Russian journalists attacked at the cemetery where paratroopers believed to be killed in Ukraine are buried http://tvrain.ru/articles/video_napa...skovom-374589/
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-26-2014 at 09:29 PM.

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    Can anyone on the thread explain to me just why Putin/Russian issued a whole series of banned food products when there is this backdoor that five tanks can drive through---so was it just for public Russian consummation or was he simply going through the motions of exactly what?

    From the Russian News Agency RIA:

    Embargoed EU Goods Actively Re-Imported to Russia via Belarus – Putin

    http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140826/192...-Belarus-.html … prin @ria_novosti

  5. #305
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    The fighting gets heavier:

    The capture of 4 MSTA-S guns is the best I've heard since the capture of Uragans, Tyulpans, Pions. Those are very heavy guns.

    Battles ARE continuing between the Russian and Ukrainian army near the coast of the Azov Sea w/ Ukr air force claiming it destroyed 10 BMP.

  6. #306
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    What do you guys think about this? Yawn? Conflict is increasingly internationalized, thus harder to end?

    http://www.trust.org/item/2014080816...urce=jtInDepth

    Spanish civil war nostalgics join fight alongside Ukrainian rebels

    * Two young men from Spain fighting with pro-Russians

    * Russians, Chechens, Ossetians, Serbs fight in rebel ranks

    * Russia says Europeans fighting in pro-Kiev units

    The ribbon's red, yellow and purple are the colours of the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, a conflict in the 1930s where thousands of foreigners joined the leftists against right-wing foes who eventually prevailed.

    Angel said he wanted to return the favour after the Soviet Union, under Stalin, supported the Republican side in Spain.
    If people weren't dying this would be funny, but this kid is creating his own reality/myth. Kids joining the jihad movement in Syria after reading Islam for Dummies is another example, which makes you wonder if the real issue is young men aren't finding meaning in their day to day life and will create whatever myth they need to do to find a cause that is bigger than they are? A cause that gives their life meaning? If true, that may explain why are counter radicalization efforts are failing, we're trying to counter the message, instead we should provide them a means to find value in their lives.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    What do you guys think about this? Yawn? Conflict is increasingly internationalized, thus harder to end?

    http://www.trust.org/item/2014080816...urce=jtInDepth

    Spanish civil war nostalgics join fight alongside Ukrainian rebels






    If people weren't dying this would be funny, but this kid is creating his own reality/myth. Kids joining the jihad movement in Syria after reading Islam for Dummies is another example, which makes you wonder if the real issue is young men aren't finding meaning in their day to day life and will create whatever myth they need to do to find a cause that is bigger than they are? A cause that gives their life meaning? If true, that may explain why are counter radicalization efforts are failing, we're trying to counter the message, instead we should provide them a means to find value in their lives.
    Bill---as always some interesting thoughts--

    1. the fighting has become internationalized---very much!---yesterday was a blog of a French camera team accompanying two French men who joined the Russian separatists and who crossed into the southern front.

    This has in fact become similar to the Spanish civil war---ie communists vs other than non communists.

    Why communist---just check the flags and slogans from the proRussian Ukrainians and the separatists and the info war messaging ie against "fascists"

    But the heart of the matter still goes to what I have called since the beginning---this is a Putin Doctrine--underlined the word doctrine. And by the way often from commenters here rejected.

    Also rejected by a number of commenters here is the simple fact that the fighting in the Ukraine and the take over of the Crimea is part and parcel of the new Russian military doctrine New Generation Warfare that supports the political warfare ie the Putin Doctrine---that is so clear as clear water but for some reason many seem to not see the connections.

    The Putin doctrine -- the belief that Russia has the right to act to protect Russian-speakers, no matter where they are -- puts NATO nations such as Estonia, Latvia, and Poland at risk. Each of these countries has citizens who speak Russian; the Kremlin has suggested it would penetrate those borders if Moscow thought those populations were threatened.

    NOTE: Check the secret addendum to the Molotov/Ribbentrop 23.8.1939 agreements and one will notice just what countries were "given" to Stalin and just where Russia is now focusing this new doctrine.

    Many commenters here need to fully reread a number of times the Duma speech from Putin--he spells it all out and clearly defines his thinking.

    And by the way the concept that many here wrote about---negotiate--does not work against this new Russian doctrine---Putin only understands force or the projection of force--just look at his final press comments yesterday in Minsk--hey it is the others to figure out---only when pressed by the social media blogs and their digging and blogging did Russia finally admit their troops were captured, but again by "accidently" being in the wrong place?

    Secondly, right now there is no effective counter measures outside sanctions due to having virtually no US combat power on the ground in Europe---in the old days if a US president wanted to signal something to the Soviets all it took was a ramp up of the alert status and it would get their attention---the raising of the alert status for a transportation or logistics unit does not get anyone's attention nor do jet fighters in the current environment of S300s.

    http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...shenko_belarus

    Your comments on radicalization are spot one--but if we look at how Russian has "radicalized" both the Crimea and the Ukraine we need to fully understand just how messaging works and how to first counter the messaging then your valid comments on values---right now there is a large number of Muslim men and even women living and working or not working in the European countries looking for some meaning in their lives that are not found inside the European societies who basically still are racist meaning if not true French, German, Dutch, Slovenian, Polish then you are an outsider.

    This group is truly open to the radical Salafist messaging and they know how to exploit it and what do we see from the effected countries---absolutely no counter actions as they simply do not "see" it or maybe just want to ignore it? IE over 400 fighters alone from the UK and Germany says something.

    IE what makes an American aged 33 stand up travel to Syria and fight and die in Syria for the IS/Islamists?---there is the core problem. We simply have not "seen" the problem and fully "understood" the problem either in Iraq or outside of the ME. That is both hard and difficult and we Americans do not do hard and difficult well these days as that requires thought power.

    IE what is driving a number of the Arab Spring countries back towards the military instead of towards the idea of rule of law and good governance that drove at first the Springs.

    Look at just the Ukraine--a perfect playing field for the US to drive counter messaging as the Russian info war has made a serious number of mistakes but nothing comes from the western side to drive a counter message pointing out relentlessly the blatant lies and dis-info.

    Right now it is the playing field for energized bloggers and open source analysts that are providing far more information than say 50 US Obama briefings and press conferences.

    That is dangerous to think about---political leadership being out played by social media bloggers who both "sees and understands".

    Right now both in the Iraq/Syria and the Ukraine---we currently have basically absolutely no US leadership to be seen anywhere nor do we have even a strategy for both that can be seen and understood.

    That is dangerous.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-27-2014 at 06:48 AM.

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    Bill M---this is a perfect example of what I am saying---from one of the major bloggers and analysts and he is in Holland.

    Tuesday, August 26, 2014

    Russian T-72s spotted in Sverdlovsk

    This video shows T-72s driving through Sverdlovsk.

    ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl

    Where are the major press conferences from US or European political leaders that are standing up and pointing bluntly at the videos and saying to the global world--Russia/Putin you are and have been lying since before the Crimea.

    Instead the world press shows Putin in his press conference in Minsk---maintaining the same messaging--"it ain't us."

    What do we see from the West-night vision glasses, body armor and anti tank weapons to the Kurds and only words to the Ukrainians who are actually fighting against the new Putin doctrine in basically the name of the West--does that make sense to anyone?

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    Another day in the war front of a non invasion but from the US declared an "incursion" and still no comments from US/EU/NATO leaders about Russian troops in the Ukraine and the heavy weapons flowing it as well.

    Deafening silence and this is a "strategy" to counter the Putin Doctrine?

    #Ilovaisk (near #Donetsk #Ukraine) is where 1 of the most intense battles is ongoing. A video from the frontlines:
    http://youtu.be/GUpWWJlazkY

    Russia is shelling a Ukrainian village from Russian territory.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=v-fVDadSaI0
    pic.twitter.com/BJlJH3XrXY

    Yesterday #Russia claimed it had occupied #Novoazovsk... it didn't. So today Russian artillery attacked the village: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-fVDadSaI0

    UA Security Council: villages north of #Novoazovsk #Ukraine have been captured by the Russian army. #Russia continues to shell the city

    #russia colonel A.Khotulev confirmed in talks to relatives: military personnel fr #Kostroma was KIA & WIA in #Ukraine
    http://goo.gl/f5i05Y
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-27-2014 at 11:13 AM.

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    Here is a lesson taken straight out of the Russian new military UW doctrine New Generation Warfare.

    We will send an "aid" convoy to the area claiming "humanitarian crisis", the West will "complain" as did Obama and the West will utter a few statements concerning more possible sanctions and then state for the news media ---well you will need ICRC and Ukrainian approval.

    Then in the face of no approval Putin sends the convoy in and over 30 trucks were empty with no "aid" onboard---reason they are there if the other trucks "break down".

    Then when the Ukrainians complain the Russians and their mercenaries were disassembling defense factories and carrying the equipment back to Russia---what response do we get from Western leaders to include Obama who has not publicly made a hard statement in literally days even if "threats" were issued.

    Again deafening silence from the West.

    Then today from even Russian official media one see the "aid" being unloaded---ie the stolen equipment from the Ukraine.

    So again what is the strategy currently for the Ukraine outside of deafening silence?

    So this is how Russia is going to rebuild their defense abilities---simply steal it?

    Rus media: Lugansk machinery factory, complete with equipment, workers moved to Cheboksary, #Russia. How? #raidconvoy
    http://www.vesti.ru/only_video.htm

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Bill---as always some interesting thoughts--

    1. the fighting has become internationalized---very much!---yesterday was a blog of a French camera team accompanying two French men who joined the Russian separatists and who crossed into the southern front.

    This has in fact become similar to the Spanish civil war---ie communists vs other than non communists.

    Why communist---just check the flags and slogans from the proRussian Ukrainians and the separatists and the info war messaging ie against "fascists"

    But the heart of the matter still goes to what I have called since the beginning---this is a Putin Doctrine--underlined the word doctrine. And by the way often from commenters here rejected.

    Also rejected by a number of commenters here is the simple fact that the fighting in the Ukraine and the take over of the Crimea is part and parcel of the new Russian military doctrine New Generation Warfare that supports the political warfare ie the Putin Doctrine---that is so clear as clear water but for some reason many seem to not see the connections.

    The Putin doctrine -- the belief that Russia has the right to act to protect Russian-speakers, no matter where they are -- puts NATO nations such as Estonia, Latvia, and Poland at risk. Each of these countries has citizens who speak Russian; the Kremlin has suggested it would penetrate those borders if Moscow thought those populations were threatened.

    NOTE: Check the secret addendum to the Molotov/Ribbentrop 23.8.1939 agreements and one will notice just what countries were "given" to Stalin and just where Russia is now focusing this new doctrine.

    Many commenters here need to fully reread a number of times the Duma speech from Putin--he spells it all out and clearly defines his thinking.

    And by the way the concept that many here wrote about---negotiate--does not work against this new Russian doctrine---Putin only understands force or the projection of force--just look at his final press comments yesterday in Minsk--hey it is the others to figure out---only when pressed by the social media blogs and their digging and blogging did Russia finally admit their troops were captured, but again by "accidently" being in the wrong place?

    Secondly, right now there is no effective counter measures outside sanctions due to having virtually no US combat power on the ground in Europe---in the old days if a US president wanted to signal something to the Soviets all it took was a ramp up of the alert status and it would get their attention---the raising of the alert status for a transportation or logistics unit does not get anyone's attention nor do jet fighters in the current environment of S300s.

    http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...shenko_belarus

    Your comments on radicalization are spot one--but if we look at how Russian has "radicalized" both the Crimea and the Ukraine we need to fully understand just how messaging works and how to first counter the messaging then your valid comments on values---right now there is a large number of Muslim men and even women living and working or not working in the European countries looking for some meaning in their lives that are not found inside the European societies who basically still are racist meaning if not true French, German, Dutch, Slovenian, Polish then you are an outsider.

    This group is truly open to the radical Salafist messaging and they know how to exploit it and what do we see from the effected countries---absolutely no counter actions as they simply do not "see" it or maybe just want to ignore it? IE over 400 fighters alone from the UK and Germany says something.

    IE what makes an American aged 33 stand up travel to Syria and fight and die in Syria for the IS/Islamists?---there is the core problem. We simply have not "seen" the problem and fully "understood" the problem either in Iraq or outside of the ME. That is both hard and difficult and we Americans do not do hard and difficult well these days as that requires thought power.

    IE what is driving a number of the Arab Spring countries back towards the military instead of towards the idea of rule of law and good governance that drove at first the Springs.

    Look at just the Ukraine--a perfect playing field for the US to drive counter messaging as the Russian info war has made a serious number of mistakes but nothing comes from the western side to drive a counter message pointing out relentlessly the blatant lies and dis-info.

    Right now it is the playing field for energized bloggers and open source analysts that are providing far more information than say 50 US Obama briefings and press conferences.

    That is dangerous to think about---political leadership being out played by social media bloggers who both "sees and understands".

    Right now both in the Iraq/Syria and the Ukraine---we currently have basically absolutely no US leadership to be seen anywhere nor do we have even a strategy for both that can be seen and understood.

    That is dangerous.
    Bill M--this goes to your comment that the Ukraine is now similar to the Spanish civil war---this French video depicts ultra nationalists from Russia supporting the separatists.

    It is amazing to see ultra rightists supporting basically a communist ideology in Putin against alleged "fascists".

    But on the other hand a number of the more radical European right wingers and their groups openly support Putin in his perceived clash with western values---even the current Hungarian leader openly supports Putin's arguments against the West and the EU.

    Right wingers against "fascists" who would have thought six months ago?

    Far-right ‘Russian Jihad’ fighters cross into #Ukraine: "Mentally, I'm ready to die". http://www.france24.com/en/focus/201...cross-ukraine/

    And now Greeks are getting into supporting the Russian mercenaries---from RIA today:

    Kind of like---"ultra nationalists of the world unite yourselves" in order to fight the western values espoused by "fascists".

    © RIA Novosti. Maksim Blinov

    Greeks Fighting Alongside Donetsk People’s Republic Militia - Reports

    Topic:Situation in the South-East of Ukraine

    Volunteers from Greece are among the representatives of various nationalities in the ranks of the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) indepedence forces, the Athens Courier newspaper reported.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-27-2014 at 11:54 AM.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Here is a lesson taken straight out of the Russian new military UW doctrine New Generation Warfare.

    We will send an "aid" convoy to the area claiming "humanitarian crisis", the West will "complain" as did Obama and the West will utter a few statements concerning more possible sanctions and then state for the news media ---well you will need ICRC and Ukrainian approval.

    Then in the face of no approval Putin sends the convoy in and over 30 trucks were empty with no "aid" onboard---reason they are there if the other trucks "break down".

    Then when the Ukrainians complain the Russians and their mercenaries were disassembling defense factories and carrying the equipment back to Russia---what response do we get from Western leaders to include Obama who has not publicly made a hard statement in literally days even if "threats" were issued.

    Again deafening silence from the West.

    Then today from even Russian official media one see the "aid" being unloaded---ie the stolen equipment from the Ukraine.

    So again what is the strategy currently for the Ukraine outside of deafening silence?

    So this is how Russia is going to rebuild their defense abilities---simply steal it?

    Rus media: Lugansk machinery factory, complete with equipment, workers moved to Cheboksary, #Russia. How? #raidconvoy
    http://www.vesti.ru/only_video.htm
    More on the "stolen" Ukrainian defense equipment---maybe the Russians "assumed" the Ukraine was to pay for the Russian "humanitarian aid"?

    Die Maschinenbaufabrik von #Luhansk wird im #russischen Tschuwaschien wiederaufgebaut

    https://www.facebook.com/euromaidanpr.de
    pic.twitter.com/MQsG04MEaH

    When #Russia tv shows an"evacuated" Ukrainian plant it sends a message "in WW2 the USSR also evacuated factories to Urals" -WW3 underway?
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-27-2014 at 01:43 PM.

  13. #313
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    Sun Tzu’s version of “political warfare”:
    "So to win a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence; the highest excellence is to subdue the enemy's army without fighting at all...The expert in using the military subdues the enemy's forces without going to battle, takes the enemy's walled cities without launching an attack, and crushes the enemy's state without protracted war."

    An interesting discussion by War on the Rocks on “political warfare vs. hybrid warfare”
    http://warontherocks.com/2014/07/on-...rid-threats/#_

    Foreign Policy article from 26.8.2014 from the former Georgian President who has experienced the exact same thing the Ukrainians are going through and who had even less Western support.

    Groundhog Day and Putin the Predator
    We know Vladimir Putin's playbook for destabilizing Ukraine. Which is why only a decisive military victory against Moscow's forces will work.

    Below are the first seven phases of the new Russian UW military doctrine New Generation Warfare that Russia uses to support their “political war” really against western values using the Ukraine as the proxy for the West.

    Right now if one goes back to before the Crimea and traces and records every political comment and military move made by Russia/Putin you can virtually layer each event/comment over one of the first seven phases---it is that easy to understand every move Putin is making.

    If it is that easy then why are not Western leaders capable of understanding it?

    About three months ago we were only at a phase four---just in the last four weeks it has now crossed to phase seven in an eight phase process before it goes to full military conflict which to some degree the Ukrainians are already in with Russian troops fighting inside the Ukraine.

    The phases of new-generation war can be schematized as (Tchekinov & Bogdanov,
    2013, pp. 15-22):

    First Phase: non-military asymmetric warfare (encompassing information, moral, psychological, ideological, diplomatic, and economic measures as part of a plan to establish a favorable political, economic, and military setup).

    Second Phase: special operations to mislead political and military leaders by coordinated measures carried out by diplomatic channels, media, and top government and military agencies by leaking false data, orders, directives, and instructions.

    Third Phase: intimidation, deceiving, and bribing government and military officers, with the objective of making them abandon their service duties.

    Fourth Phase: destabilizing propaganda to increase discontent among the population, boosted by the arrival of Russian bands of militants, escalating subversion.

    Fifth Phase: establishment of no-fly zones over the country to be attacked, imposition of blockades, and extensive use of private military companies in close cooperation with armed opposition units.

    Sixth Phase: commencement of military action, immediately preceded by large-scale reconnaissance and subversive missions. All types, forms, methods, and forces, including special operations forces, space, radio, radio engineering, electronic, diplomatic, and secret service intelligence, and industrial espionage.

    Seventh Phase: combination of targeted information operation, electronic warfare operation, aerospace operation, continuous airforce harassment, combined with the use of high precision weapons launched from various platforms (long-range artillery, and weapons basedon new physical principles, including microwaves, radiation, non-lethal biological weapons).

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    Bill M---here is another article concerning the internationalization of the fighting in the Ukraine.

    This was just posted by bellingcat---the OSINT blogger from the UK and it concerns an ultra nationalist Russian group fighting in the Ukraine.

    A really good OSINT work up on the group.

    By the way---there is some blogging indicators of a Turkish group fighting with the mercenaries as well but nothing hard yet on them.

    https://bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-e...k-wolf-sotnia/

    Here is also information on a Nazi group (Russian National Unity) out of Russia that is fighting as well in the Ukraine.

    http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/08/2...es-to-recruit/
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-27-2014 at 03:04 PM.

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    Russian T-72 tank destroyed in heavy fighting near Donetsk---video shows Russian paperwork and if one watches the video you will see the Russians painted the white circle on it indicating "peacekeeping".

    Crew was Russian evidently based on paperwork taken from tank and killed crew's paperwork--also in the video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOhEqpS_9GU

    Int Ministry's official says #Ukraine forces encircled in #Ilovaysk due to arrival of huge #Russia column. Invasion http://www.unian.ua/politics/956002-...-stalosya.html

    Russian GRU recon types are also getting killed as well.
    Killed In #Stepanovka on July 25. Got direct hit by a shell. Helped w "humanitarian" (r)aid. #Ukraine #ATO
    pic.twitter.com/i6DMtHGGNr
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-27-2014 at 04:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Sun Tzu’s version of “political warfare”:
    "So to win a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence; the highest excellence is to subdue the enemy's army without fighting at all...The expert in using the military subdues the enemy's forces without going to battle, takes the enemy's walled cities without launching an attack, and crushes the enemy's state without protracted war."

    An interesting discussion by War on the Rocks on “political warfare vs. hybrid warfare”
    http://warontherocks.com/2014/07/on-...rid-threats/#_

    Foreign Policy article from 26.8.2014 from the former Georgian President who has experienced the exact same thing the Ukrainians are going through and who had even less Western support.

    Groundhog Day and Putin the Predator
    We know Vladimir Putin's playbook for destabilizing Ukraine. Which is why only a decisive military victory against Moscow's forces will work.

    Below are the first seven phases of the new Russian UW military doctrine New Generation Warfare that Russia uses to support their “political war” really against western values using the Ukraine as the proxy for the West.

    Right now if one goes back to before the Crimea and traces and records every political comment and military move made by Russia/Putin you can virtually layer each event/comment over one of the first seven phases---it is that easy to understand every move Putin is making.

    If it is that easy then why are not Western leaders capable of understanding it?

    About three months ago we were only at a phase four---just in the last four weeks it has now crossed to phase seven in an eight phase process before it goes to full military conflict which to some degree the Ukrainians are already in with Russian troops fighting inside the Ukraine.

    The phases of new-generation war can be schematized as (Tchekinov & Bogdanov,
    2013, pp. 15-22):

    First Phase: non-military asymmetric warfare (encompassing information, moral, psychological, ideological, diplomatic, and economic measures as part of a plan to establish a favorable political, economic, and military setup).

    Second Phase: special operations to mislead political and military leaders by coordinated measures carried out by diplomatic channels, media, and top government and military agencies by leaking false data, orders, directives, and instructions.

    Third Phase: intimidation, deceiving, and bribing government and military officers, with the objective of making them abandon their service duties.

    Fourth Phase: destabilizing propaganda to increase discontent among the population, boosted by the arrival of Russian bands of militants, escalating subversion.

    Fifth Phase: establishment of no-fly zones over the country to be attacked, imposition of blockades, and extensive use of private military companies in close cooperation with armed opposition units.

    Sixth Phase: commencement of military action, immediately preceded by large-scale reconnaissance and subversive missions. All types, forms, methods, and forces, including special operations forces, space, radio, radio engineering, electronic, diplomatic, and secret service intelligence, and industrial espionage.

    Seventh Phase: combination of targeted information operation, electronic warfare operation, aerospace operation, continuous airforce harassment, combined with the use of high precision weapons launched from various platforms (long-range artillery, and weapons basedon new physical principles, including microwaves, radiation, non-lethal biological weapons).
    So what phase of the eight phases is this statement from Russia?

    Russia Accuses NATO Of Destabilizing European Security As Russian-Backed Troops Capture Ukrainian Towns
    http://bit.ly/1pH6pOE

    This statement today from the Russian representatives to NATO--interesting.

    Russians at NATO
    ‏@natomission_ru Hybrid warfare is #NATO invention. NATO allies have been perfecting their disinformation skills for years in Bosnia,Iraq,Kosovo,#Afghanistan

    Notice they used the term hybrid warfare which is the newest buzz word for really political warfare.

    By the way--nice compliment on the NATO disinformation skills which I have not seen in the last six months or for that matter in the last 10 years.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-27-2014 at 04:14 PM.

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    There is no leadership coming from the Obama WH on the Ukraine and absolutely no US leadership inside NATO currently and the Baltics and Poland are getting nervous about the ability of NATO and are starting to question both the US/Germany and NATO.

    This is coming from Poland--if the Russians keep pushing troops into eastern Ukraine---I fully expect Poland to go to full alert status in the next 72 hours as a sign of their willingness to come to the Ukrainian assistance and signal to the Russians their dislike of what they are doing in central Europe.

    Watch the Russian PR disinformation campaign kick into high gear as well.

    Donald #Tusk confirms presence of #Russian troops in #Ukraine. Says this is a security issue for #Poland.
    http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/08/2...e-donbas-tusk/

    @mfa_russia launching full-scale PR offensive as Russian troops invade deeper and deeper into Ukrainian territory http://bit.ly/1pH6pOE
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-27-2014 at 04:28 PM.

  18. #318
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    There is an interesting internal Russian development that the FSB is pushing hard back on---Russian mothers of military personnel either killed, wounded and or POWs are starting via social media to speak out and are asking the Russian government to assist them in the return of the Russian killed, wounded, and POWs from the Ukraine and are openly asking why Russia soldiers are fighting in the Ukraine.

    Recent Russian polling indicated over 60% of those asked were not in favor of fighting in the Ukraine. That might now go higher as the Russian social media has gotten into the game now and are pushing for answers.

    http://tvrain.ru/articles/komitet_so...soldat-374625/ … 400 #Russian regulars killed,wounded in #Ukraine,#Russia's Committee of Soldiers' Mothers says pic.twitter.com/MpjBqB2u9J

    "Committee of Soldiers' Mothers": 400 dead and wounded Russian soldiers. Source: Novaya Gazeta (Russian) http://www.novayagazeta.ru/news/1686289.html

    While it appears the UA is being pushed back hard by Russian troops--some journalists have reported seeing in the last four weeks an unusually high number of trucks going to Russia carrying dead fighters---rumors were out there of high separatist loses but many just assumed it was rumors---but now with the POWs and other photos coming out---maybe the numbers are in fact high.

    Thus Putin's push of the Russia military into the Ukraine to "save face".

    But the mother's movement was definitely not anticipated by the FSB--the FSB is having an extremely tough time controlling the social media and the remaining liberal Russian media now that the word is out about Russian soldiers fighting and dying in the Ukraine especially since the Ukraine was considered a "brother country" by many Russians.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-27-2014 at 04:54 PM.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Sun Tzu’s version of “political warfare”:
    "So to win a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence; the highest excellence is to subdue the enemy's army without fighting at all...The expert in using the military subdues the enemy's forces without going to battle, takes the enemy's walled cities without launching an attack, and crushes the enemy's state without protracted war."

    An interesting discussion by War on the Rocks on “political warfare vs. hybrid warfare”
    http://warontherocks.com/2014/07/on-...rid-threats/#_

    Foreign Policy article from 26.8.2014 from the former Georgian President who has experienced the exact same thing the Ukrainians are going through and who had even less Western support.

    Groundhog Day and Putin the Predator
    We know Vladimir Putin's playbook for destabilizing Ukraine. Which is why only a decisive military victory against Moscow's forces will work.

    Below are the first seven phases of the new Russian UW military doctrine New Generation Warfare that Russia uses to support their “political war” really against western values using the Ukraine as the proxy for the West.

    Right now if one goes back to before the Crimea and traces and records every political comment and military move made by Russia/Putin you can virtually layer each event/comment over one of the first seven phases---it is that easy to understand every move Putin is making.

    If it is that easy then why are not Western leaders capable of understanding it?

    About three months ago we were only at a phase four---just in the last four weeks it has now crossed to phase seven in an eight phase process before it goes to full military conflict which to some degree the Ukrainians are already in with Russian troops fighting inside the Ukraine.

    The phases of new-generation war can be schematized as (Tchekinov & Bogdanov,
    2013, pp. 15-22):

    First Phase: non-military asymmetric warfare (encompassing information, moral, psychological, ideological, diplomatic, and economic measures as part of a plan to establish a favorable political, economic, and military setup).

    Second Phase: special operations to mislead political and military leaders by coordinated measures carried out by diplomatic channels, media, and top government and military agencies by leaking false data, orders, directives, and instructions.

    Third Phase: intimidation, deceiving, and bribing government and military officers, with the objective of making them abandon their service duties.

    Fourth Phase: destabilizing propaganda to increase discontent among the population, boosted by the arrival of Russian bands of militants, escalating subversion.

    Fifth Phase: establishment of no-fly zones over the country to be attacked, imposition of blockades, and extensive use of private military companies in close cooperation with armed opposition units.

    Sixth Phase: commencement of military action, immediately preceded by large-scale reconnaissance and subversive missions. All types, forms, methods, and forces, including special operations forces, space, radio, radio engineering, electronic, diplomatic, and secret service intelligence, and industrial espionage.

    Seventh Phase: combination of targeted information operation, electronic warfare operation, aerospace operation, continuous airforce harassment, combined with the use of high precision weapons launched from various platforms (long-range artillery, and weapons basedon new physical principles, including microwaves, radiation, non-lethal biological weapons).
    Notice in phase five the use of the term private military companies and this statement yesterday from one of the captured Russian airborne soldiers.

    One paratrooper named Sergei Smirnov said in an interrogation video that he was a “contractor” in the Russian army who had come to Ukraine “for training.” He added that he did not know he was in Ukraine until “we went through a village and saw a Ukrainian tank.”

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    There is an interesting internal Russian development that the FSB is pushing hard back on---Russian mothers of military personnel either killed, wounded and or POWs are starting via social media to speak out and are asking the Russian government to assist them in the return of the Russian killed, wounded, and POWs from the Ukraine and are openly asking why Russia soldiers are fighting in the Ukraine.

    Recent Russian polling indicated over 60% of those asked were not in favor of fighting in the Ukraine. That might now go higher as the Russian social media has gotten into the game now and are pushing for answers.

    http://tvrain.ru/articles/komitet_so...soldat-374625/ … 400 #Russian regulars killed,wounded in #Ukraine,#Russia's Committee of Soldiers' Mothers says pic.twitter.com/MpjBqB2u9J

    "Committee of Soldiers' Mothers": 400 dead and wounded Russian soldiers. Source: Novaya Gazeta (Russian) http://www.novayagazeta.ru/news/1686289.html

    While it appears the UA is being pushed back hard by Russian troops--some journalists have reported seeing in the last four weeks an unusually high number of trucks going to Russia carrying dead fighters---rumors were out there of high separatist loses but many just assumed it was rumors---but now with the POWs and other photos coming out---maybe the numbers are in fact high.

    Thus Putin's push of the Russia military into the Ukraine to "save face".

    But the mother's movement was definitely not anticipated by the FSB--the FSB is having an extremely tough time controlling the social media and the remaining liberal Russian media now that the word is out about Russian soldiers fighting and dying in the Ukraine especially since the Ukraine was considered a "brother country" by many Russians.
    More on the Russian population learning about Russian military fighting and dying in the Ukraine:

    Roland Oliphant @RolandOliphant

    With reports of dead Rus soldiers mounting, Vedomosti demands to know: Are we fighting in Ukraine or not? (Russian). http://www.vedomosti.ru/opinion/news...li-my?full#cut
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-27-2014 at 06:13 PM.

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