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Thread: Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed

  1. #641
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    We in the US talk about the loss of blood and treasure when we refer to Iraq and AFG--this link will take you to a Russian Mother's project who is trying to identify killed, wounded or missing Russian military personnel inside the Ukraine and it is massive and the list just keeps growing.

    The Ukraine is now costing Putin his economy and a lot of Russian parents, wives and girl friends their loved ones.

    AND his population in all the propaganda was totally not mentally prepared for this.

    http://www.mamasoldata.org/

  2. #642
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    AP--here you go--the true Russian strategy on the Ukraine--the idea of protecting ethnic Russian minorities rights takes a back seat/is in fact a smoke screen in front of the three items below.

    AND AP--there is no negotiations that will overcome and or answer the three Russian demands without a total capitulation by the EU/NATO/US.

    http://en.ria.ru/world/20140913/1929...nd-Behind.html

    Probably one of the best Russian statements on exactly what their core strategy is in the Ukraine and surprisingly directly stated. Surprised they released it in such detail via RIA--this tells me they are attempting to appeal to a few of the EU that were against the last round of sanctions and are trying to get their messaging out into the public domain in order to influence the coming debates especially if they make an military move to annex the south east Ukraine up to Odessa forming a land corridor to the Crimea.

    If one really reads the statements the following jumps out as core Russian demands.

    1. the Ukraine is "ours" not NATO's ie non aligned must remain a demand BECAUSE NATO "violated" the 1997 agreements we had with them--NOW this is key the 1997 document is a political statement not a formal submitted to all governments for approval document BUT because Russia places so much emphasis on "legality"--they treat it as a treaty to be honored.

    Moving NATO infrastructure closer to Russian borders by pulling more countries into the alliance is unacceptable, Sergei Lavrov said.

    Interesting in that only the Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldavia are not in NATO- the rest of the Warsaw Pact is inside NATO.

    Confirmation that the 1997 agreement is not a treaty--is here:

    Lavrov noted that Russia’s proposal to turn the commitments given within the framework of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) and the NATO-Russia Council (NRC) not to strengthen the security of the alliance “at the expense of the security of others" into a legally binding agreement “was rejected multiple times”.

    2. By constantly questioning NATO's intent and in proposing new security formats--the Russian aim is/was to pit internally each member against each other in order to weaken NATO to a non threat position and or to prove to say Poland and the Baltics that their best interests lie with Russia and not the US/NATO.

    3. Russia wants to split the EU and US economically as well as politically.
    Although the Unites States are trying to do their best to disrupt the economic relations between the EU and Russia, Russia is not losing the battle for influence in Europe, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Saturday.

    "There is a big battle going on," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in an interview with Russian TVC channel. "The United States want to use the current situation in order to separate Europe from Russia economy-wise and bargain the most favorable conditions for themselves in the context of the ongoing negotiations on the creation of a transatlantic trade and investment partnership."

    Here for me is the true Russia fear and it is macroeconomics pure and simple--it is TTIP as it would negate their vision of an European wide from Portugal to the Russian Far East free trade zone controlled/influenced by Russia which in effect would make Russia with it's oil/gas then one of the largest economic powers to go along with it's military/nuclear power thus effectively negating any US influence in Europe.

    Again this implied desire to split the EU and the US is repeated several times by the Russian FM in the entire RIA article.

    Answering the question on whether Russia is losing Europe to the United States, the Russian Foreign Minister said, "I think not."

    "Now we are seeing the EU giving the subject a second thought. The fact that some of the EU countries, which are not the largest and do not have a leading role, begin to argue openly that the policy of sanctions is a deadlock, that it is counterproductive, says a lot," Lavrov said.

    Here is in fact a tad differently worded the core Russian macroeconomics view of Europe that they ae striving to create, influence and control. They have discussed their "dream" of an free trade economic zone from Portugal to the Russian Far East in conversations with the EU but have been blocked by the EU--now it raises it's head again.

    That is at the core of their dispute with the Ukrainian EU Association agreement---the millions they will loss on the free trade side if the Ukraine is in the EU since a majority of their products to the West cross through the Ukraine due to the European highway systems and that they cannot change.

    Here though is the Russian view very well explained--free trade zone between the EU--the CIS and the EEC--the CIS and EEC are totally under Russian control and dominance.

    Lavrov said that Russia is interested in a strategic partnership with the EU to grow in strength and develop.

    "If you add up the potential of Russia and the European Union, then both will benefit from stronger positions in the world markets," the Russian foreign minister said. Russia is still prepared to take practical steps for the implementation of this course, the minister added.

    The idea of creating a free trade zone between the EU and the Customs Union by 2020, and in future the Eurasian Economic Union, is still relevant.

    "This idea is still alive, relevant and is of particular interest [to Russia], especially in the context of the current events in the economic relations between Ukraine and the EU, and Ukraine and the Commonwealth of Independent States. That would be the answer to a lot of questions," Lavrov said.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-13-2014 at 04:10 PM.

  3. #643
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    Appears that just maybe the "ceasefire" is in fact over as this 23 hour shelling by the Russians and a ground attack by Russian SF on the Donetsk airport might in fact be the end of the "ceasefire".

    Notice: There is a NONSTOP attack on #Donetsk airport since 23 hours .
    This is no "ceasefire breach", but the de facto END of it.

    Heavy gunfire heard now from #Donetsk airport

    #BREAKINGNEWS Fighting broke out south west of #Donetsk city.
    Probably Ukr. positions in #Marinka under attack.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvAEoy

    More gunfire heard from #Donetsk steady slow firing thumps. Possibly the machine gun of an armoured vehicle?

    Appears now that Ukrainian heavy armor is also on the move in the Luhansk region.
    Footage Very heavy Ukrainian army convoy moving in #Luhansk oblast.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e607Tj70tfo

    Scheduled POW exchange called off today by mercenaries--key part of the Minsk "ceasefire" that is being dragged out by them.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-13-2014 at 06:04 PM.

  4. #644
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    Window on Eurasia: Kaliningraders’ Loyalty to Moscow 'Falling' as a Result of Sanctions and Counter-Sanctions

    Paul Goble
    Staunton, September 13 – Officials in Moscow who “constantly fear mythical Kaliningrad separatism” are as a result “closing their eyes to all the remaining difficulties” there, many the result of sanctions and counter-sanctions “as a result of which the loyalty of the local population to the center is falling,” according to Gleb Kuznetsov.

    The political scientist made that argument at a meeting of Moscow, Warsaw and Kaliningrad experts organized this week by the Rosbalt news agency to discuss what participants said is a situation in which Russia’s “Kaliningrad oblast has turned out to be the main hostage of the conflict situation” (rosbalt.ru/kaliningrad/2014/09/12/1314609.html).

    The exclave, the only Russian region which is “practically completely surrounded by countries which have joined the European Union and NATO, is more connected economically and in terms of transportation with those countries than with the rest of Russia and so is most negatively affected by the sanctions regime, participants said.

    Ilya Shumanov, who is a leader of the Kaliningrad Regional Anti-Corruption Experts Community, said that his oblast “has turned out to be not prepared for the introduction of sanctions,” including both a falloff in visitors from Poland and increases in domestic prices for many basic goods.

    He pointed out that in Kaliningrad since the introduction of sanctions and counter-sanctions, the price of fish has gone up 2.5 times and that many local factories processing Norwegian fish are now “at the brink of bankruptcy.” And he pointed to increasing “scandals” at the border involving the confiscation of food purchased by Kaliningraders in Poland.

    Almost all of the problems Kaliningraders are facing arise from Moscow’s counter-sanctions rather than from the EU sanctions in the first place. “In Kaliningrad,” the experts said, “no one seriously is focusing attention on the introduction of new sanctions” from the West. Instead, they are concerned about what Moscow is doing.

    Kaliningraders are interested in buying food in Poland where prices are significantly lower. “’Polish apples’” which are sold in Kaliningrad now as “’Rostov’ apples” cost “almost five times more than in Poland. And tomatoes and pickles are almost twice as expensive as in the neighboring country. Alcohol is also much more expensive in the exclave than in Poland.

    The experts at the meeting said that along with these price changes has come a change in attitudes among Poles about Kaliningrad. Until recently, most Poles saw expansion of trade with that region as a good thing. Now, they view it as “a military-strategic object” Moscow may use to pressure them.

    “Russians often say that Kaliningrad is a ‘besieged fortress,” but given the events in Ukraine, “Poles as well as Lithuanians and other Baltic republics feel themselves as in that situation,” something that Moscow’s military exercises in the Baltic have only exacerbated, reviving many of the stereotypes of the cold war.

    There is not going to be a war in the region because both Russia and NATO have nuclear weapons, the experts said, but “the psychological playing on the threat of war has led to a situation in which scenarios which not long ago seemed unrealistic, as a result of their constant mention, are beginning to seem completely probable.”

    “Despite the general worsening of the situation in [Kaliningrad],” the experts concluded, “no sharp changes are expected there in the immediate future. Instead, all the same problems which have long characterized Kaliningrad oblast will simply become more serious,” especially if officials there and in Moscow continue to ignore them.

    Regional officials have a particular responsibility to address them, the participants said, but little can be expected if as now they “prefer to report that sanctions will help ‘local entrepreneurs.’” That, of course, is what Moscow wants to hear given Vladimir Putin’s statements, but it is simply not true.

  5. #645
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    Seems in this Russian article the Russian military maybe hedging their bets and indicating that maybe with a big M MH17 might have been shot down by a BUK after all.

    Maybe the knowledge that the Dutch have missile frags that the iron analysis will indicate that it is Russian made might be the gentle nudge to slowly admit they had lied before.

    Strange development to say the least --just maybe Dutch forensics might have forced the hand of the Russians when sanctions could not.

    Now Russian military says it was BUK
    http://ria.ru/mh17/20140910/1023539819.html … - they were lying since 21Jul pic.twitter.com/3idfSwSa5J

  6. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Seems in this Russian article the Russian military maybe hedging their bets and indicating that maybe with a big M MH17 might have been shot down by a BUK after all.

    Maybe the knowledge that the Dutch have missile frags that the iron analysis will indicate that it is Russian made might be the gentle nudge to slowly admit they had lied before.

    Strange development to say the least --just maybe Dutch forensics might have forced the hand of the Russians when sanctions could not.

    Now Russian military says it was BUK
    http://ria.ru/mh17/20140910/1023539819.html … - they were lying since 21Jul pic.twitter.com/3idfSwSa5J
    Internet now picking up this RIA press release.

    Russian press agency RIA Novosti quotes former Russian Air Force Commander "it could be BUK" #MH17
    http://bit.ly/1nLfZeV @Brown_Moses

    @GorseFires @PeterGrnlund1 Russia now understands SU25 testimony is weak. Jump s to BUK story as evidence is clear: fragments in bodies
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-13-2014 at 07:57 PM.

  7. #647
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    http://iz.com.ua/zaporoje/52794-reze...a-poligon.html

    Riot in 55th artillery brigade in Zaporozhje - conscripts refuse to go to Donbass.
    Haeresis est maxima opera maleficarum non credere.

  8. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    http://iz.com.ua/zaporoje/52794-reze...a-poligon.html

    Riot in 55th artillery brigade in Zaporozhje - conscripts refuse to go to Donbass.
    So comrade mirhond back again I see---will see your comment and raise the standards a step higher.

    If you like I will post a link to the Rostov/Don Russian military mortuary where there is a Russian military dead body clearing house with currently 400 dead Russian military bodies that cannot be identified without DNA which is not available because no individual blood samples were taken before they went on "vacation".

    Article was in Russian and stated that currently Russian military losses were 1,300 and rising.

    Secondly--you did notice that the former Commander of the Russian Air Force in a RIA press released stated he thought the MH17 shot down was in fact with a Buk---remember MH17 mirhond?--you mentioned the looting and stealing from dead bodies was a unique Cossack burial ritual---remember mirhond?

    So keep posting and I will keep showing you the other side of the story which you seem to not get

  9. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    http://iz.com.ua/zaporoje/52794-reze...a-poligon.html

    Riot in 55th artillery brigade in Zaporozhje - conscripts refuse to go to Donbass.
    So comrade mirhond--your side is what "winning"--explain that to these
    Russian family members, wives, and their mothers.

    http://www.mamasoldata.org/

    Saw those unique FSB military burials---in the middle of the night, no flowers and no compensation for being killed because they were "contract and or on vacation" right mirhond?

    So comrade mirhond--that is what the "new action and professional Russian Army"---no proper military burial and no death insurance---sure saves Putin money--right comrade mirhond?

    BY THE WAY--great Russian punk song-you might know it---oh forgot you work for the FSB these days and it is probably forbidden to listen to---so-enjoy!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heUU7s
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-14-2014 at 09:01 AM.

  10. #650
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    so comrade mirhond--that second "approved aid convoy to Luhansk went where? --you did see that the Russian government "had approval" from the Ukrainian government and the ICRC---both denied they had given approval---another Russian "doublespeak".

    So comrade mirhond just where did the remaining 150 "white painted humanitarian trucks" actually go to?

    #Breaking Only 70 of the 220 "aid trucks" reached #Luhansk city. The rest drove somewhere else.

    The RedCross confirms, it has no clue.

    so comrade mirhond---can you provide any clues?

  11. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    http://iz.com.ua/zaporoje/52794-reze...a-poligon.html

    Riot in 55th artillery brigade in Zaporozhje - conscripts refuse to go to Donbass.
    comrade mirhond---care to explain the statements of the former Russian AF Commander concerning possible downing of MH17 by a Buk?

    http://ria.ru/mh17/20140910/1023539819.html

  12. #652
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    AP---this is a direct effect of "negotiations".

    Political headache for Poroshenko: Russians are not exchanging POWs in a timely fashion & there is little #Ukraine can do during "ceasefire".

    See AP--part and parcel of the Minsk negotiated agreements and it was understood in Minsk would be a timely POW exchange, first lists then transfer---it was anticipated that all 1300 Ukrainians would be exchanged NLT Sunday after the Friday signing.

    Second thing that you have missed---both mercenary group representatives stated this weekend that the agreements did not apply to them because they did not sign them---presto the signatures were I fact released to the world and yes they did sign them---now they are trying to "redo" the agreements---again a great example of "negotiations at work right"?

    Notice there is still no full exchange--DNR is dragging their feet and wonder why?---it allows for a Russian troop rotation and allowing for the undercover factory dismantling's to go on.

    Then if you paid attention to the first Russian illegal "air convoy" two complete Ukrainian military factories in the Donbas were dismantled and taken to Russia using the returning "aid trucks".

    Yesterdays' "again illegal aid convoy" only 70 trucks actually seemed to carry "aid" the other 150 trucks simply "disappeared to somewhere--but no one knows exactly where ---confirmed by ICRC. Several of the trucks were in fact refrigerated allowing for the undercover recovery of dead Russian bodies as well.

    Now when the entire eastern Ukraine events started there was a series of RIA/Interfax releases that stated if the Russian military was cutoff from the Ukrainain defense industry it would take between 5 to 7 years to rebuild that capacity.

    What many do not realize is that key parts of the Putin military modernization plan called 2020 would require the defense production from the Donbas.

    Ever think that Russia is in fact under the cover of "aid trucks" dismantling factories secured by the alleged discriminated ethnic Russia mercenaries?

    And that is a specific example of poor "negotiations" which should have never been necessary of tough economic sanctions had been applied immediately after Crimea--tough as now they are finally.

    The western leadership "wasted" over four months of valuable time getting to the current sanctions and where is now the Russian army and where are the Ukrainian dismantled defense factories going?
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-14-2014 at 09:59 AM.

  13. #653
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    And sanctions do not work?


    Siluanov's comments imply that any financial assistance to Rosneft & Novatek is likely to be a fraction of the amount requested by Rosneft

    Rosneft must pay back at the end of 2014 almost 46B in credit lines and long term bank loans/bonds.

    Russian companies have been playing the great Ponzi scheme of where is the pea by taking large western bank loans on virtually on interest charges in order to hold onto their own capital--normal for businesses, but now for some reason those billions they are suppose to have in their bank accounts seem to not be there---wonder what personal bank account in the UK or Switzerland they are sitting in?

    Siluanov: Russia is ready to support sanctions-hit energy companies #Rosneft & #Novatek from its National Wealth Fund http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0RE0B420140913

    There is talk of over 70% of the National Wealth Fund being given to Rosneft--so much for future Russian pension raises.

    Siliuanov: "It's been decided so far not to unseal the remaining 40% [of NWF]. This is our strategic reserve" http://rbth.com/news/2014/09/13/rosn...4_-_39756.html

  14. #654
    Council Member Dayuhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    AP--here you go--the true Russian strategy on the Ukraine--the idea of protecting ethnic Russian minorities rights takes a back seat/is in fact a smoke screen in front of the three items below.
    These are goals, not a strategy. The strategy is the means that are supposed to get you the goals, and if these are the goals, the Russians are not exactly doing well on the strategy side.

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    1. the Ukraine is "ours" not NATO's ie non aligned must remain a demand BECAUSE NATO "violated" the 1997 agreements we had with them--NOW this is key the 1997 document is a political statement not a formal submitted to all governments for approval document BUT because Russia places so much emphasis on "legality"--they treat it as a treaty to be honored.
    This goes down in the epic fail category. The Ukraine has lost some territory and may lose more, but whatever is left is irretrievably outside the Russian orbit and is certain to do all it can to get into NATO, likely with a positive reception. Even if the Ukraine loses the southeast, NATO is still likely to come out on the doorstep, with Belarus the only Russian "ally" (with allies like Belarus enemies are superfluous) left in the west. Even Kazakhstan will be watching with concern and probably holding some quiet discussions with the superpower on the other side.

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    2. By constantly questioning NATO's intent and in proposing new security formats--the Russian aim is/was to pit internally each member against each other in order to weaken NATO to a non threat position and or to prove to say Poland and the Baltics that their best interests lie with Russia and not the US/NATO.
    Again, epic fail. All of the questions raised about intent have been questions about Russia's intent, nott hat of the US. Poland and the Baltics are more nervous about Russia than ever, and consequently more attached to NATO.

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    3. Russia wants to split the EU and US economically as well as politically.
    Although the Unites States are trying to do their best to disrupt the economic relations between the EU and Russia, Russia is not losing the battle for influence in Europe, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Saturday.

    "There is a big battle going on," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in an interview with Russian TVC channel. "The United States want to use the current situation in order to separate Europe from Russia economy-wise and bargain the most favorable conditions for themselves in the context of the ongoing negotiations on the creation of a transatlantic trade and investment partnership."

    Here for me is the true Russia fear and it is macroeconomics pure and simple--it is TTIP as it would negate their vision of an European wide from Portugal to the Russian Far East free trade zone controlled/influenced by Russia which in effect would make Russia with it's oil/gas then one of the largest economic powers to go along with it's military/nuclear power thus effectively negating any US influence in Europe.

    Again this implied desire to split the EU and the US is repeated several times by the Russian FM in the entire RIA article.

    Answering the question on whether Russia is losing Europe to the United States, the Russian Foreign Minister said, "I think not."

    "Now we are seeing the EU giving the subject a second thought. The fact that some of the EU countries, which are not the largest and do not have a leading role, begin to argue openly that the policy of sanctions is a deadlock, that it is counterproductive, says a lot," Lavrov said.

    Here is in fact a tad differently worded the core Russian macroeconomics view of Europe that they ae striving to create, influence and control. They have discussed their "dream" of an free trade economic zone from Portugal to the Russian Far East in conversations with the EU but have been blocked by the EU--now it raises it's head again.
    Probably the most epic fail of all. his dream was never much more than a fantasy to start with, but it is more remote now than ever before. Short of physical conquest, Russia has approximately zero chance of bringing Europe into a Russian dominated bloc. That doesn't mean they won't do business with Europe, but they won't be running the show.

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    "This idea is still alive, relevant and is of particular interest [to Russia], especially in the context of the current events in the economic relations between Ukraine and the EU, and Ukraine and the Commonwealth of Independent States. That would be the answer to a lot of questions," Lavrov said.[/B]
    Maybe that's Russia's answer to a lot of questions, but do you see anyone jumping on the bandwagon?

    The measure of a strategy's success or failure lies in the accomplishment or non-accomplishment of the goals. If these are the goals, Russia ain't winning.
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”

    H.L. Mencken

  15. #655
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    Having been one of the few Americans to have trained the Russian 15th Peacekeeping Brigade in two USAREUR peacekeeping exercise in 2012 and 2013 and the one who has converted the US operations processes into joint US/Russian Brigade staff processes---I have been awaiting the arrival of the 15th into the Ukraine as a clear sign of Putin's intentions

    The 15th is now for all intents and purposes functioning in the Ukraine and for Russia to continue "denying" must slowly be recognized either Putin is living in an "altered state of reality" or he is simply out right lying.

    Russian social media site confirms the 15th in the Luhansk region.

    http://t.co/9VeBG87dzT

    There has been some chatter on the net about this Russian military Ukraine plan being built and in place about 1-2 years ago and it was just sitting there ready to go.

    Short story--out of the blue in late 2012 the Russian military requested a "peacekeeping joint exercise"--we pulled it together in under 90 days and then exercised jointly--one question I kept asking was Why the sudden Russian interest in peacekeeping since the last joint exercise was fives years previous ---many jumped at the opportunity as the then General of USAREUR had been angling for an invite before he retired and he finally got it in 2013. The Russians were extremely interested in how we the US pulls together logistics--now we see the reasoning behind their interest.

    The core question was never answered---the why now and why urgency behind the two exercises as often expressed by the Russians themselves---the 15th Staff was joined by COLs/LTCs from their Russian military academy and their MoD. Also one of their Mech BN commanders would come.

    We trained them well---maybe in the future the US Army should answer the Why before they engage and commit simply because they wanted invitations to Moscow.

    Now I understand their urgency.

    This might explain the heavy shelling attacks ongoing in Donetsk simply because a number of the BN commanders in the 15th simply wanted to shot and kill all resisting civilians during the exercises---this was the hardest part to get through their heads---one must protect civilians at all costs.

    Right now it seems the FSB cannot get their soldiers to get into the opsec thing on social media.

    This is how they camouflaged the vehicles--simply painted white over the Russian MC emblems.
    https://t.co/UyqAZK8WFo
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-14-2014 at 02:04 PM.

  16. #656
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    Heavy BM21/27 shelling by Russian troops on the Donetsk airport and Putins' FM complimented Putin for his "peace plan and ceasefire" successes yesterday via RIA.

    So, #Ukraine forces in #Donetsk Airport have been pounded by #Russia rocket artillery 4 last 6 hrs. Well, ceasefire generally holds.

    The world really has to ask itself---just what was "achieved" by "negotiation" other than a really slowed down POW exchange and a complete rotation of Russian troops who had been pounded on their entry into the Ukraine.

    #BREAKINGNEWS #DONETSK'S NORTHERN #OCTYABRSKIY DISTRICT BURNING AFTER MULTIPLE RUSSIAN #GRAD MISSILE HITS

    pic.twitter.com/Zz3Jg8Ah37

    #BREAKING This is the Putilov market in #Donetsk's #Putilovka district.
    Hit by Russian #Grad missiles and burning.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ApI2WrQF0U

    The district is just south east of #Donetsk airport. pic.twitter.com/uHyC8w1So1

    Seems like Russian rocket troops are overshooting the airport--there are reported to be literally unbroken GRAD fire now directed at the airport---this is exactly what Russian troops did in Chechnya when they leveled cities and towns.

    Footage summary #map:
    Where Russians fire from and where impacts are confirmed.
    Talking of "accuracy"...
    pic.twitter.com/4clHtQNXTc
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-14-2014 at 05:02 PM.

  17. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirhond View Post
    http://iz.com.ua/zaporoje/52794-reze...a-poligon.html

    Riot in 55th artillery brigade in Zaporozhje - conscripts refuse to go to Donbass.
    mirhond---do you agree with the killed number of Russian soldiers?

    Russian NGO says 3526 Russian soldiers KIA in Donbas so far

    http://newsdaily.com.ua/post/447980
    pic.twitter.com/GNF2YBN1DR

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    AP---and there is no "altered state of reality" in Moscow?

    Headline in the pro-Kremlin "Komsomolskaya Pravda": "Boeing downed in Ukraine (#MH17) is the same that disappeared in March (#MH370)"

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    This is more insight into what is driving Putin--and the author might in fact be correct---Putin's recent comments and actions do indicate "an altered state of both reality and actions" so therefore there are other drivers at work than what we assuming.

    It appears sometimes from his comments that he is in fact on a "crusade".

    Author is a Baltic resident who has a better perspective than say an American or a German.

    http://en.delfi.lt/opinion/opinion-w...#ixzz3DMD4nIP0

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    Sometimes here at SWJ we often forget what Putin statements really are---this is taken from his comments to the press on 17 April 2014--check how he defines "New Russia" and then check where the latest reports are from Russian troop locations--seems to be an exact match.

    He used the argument that the Crimea was given away by a former Communist leader to the Ukraine thus the need to "bring it back to Russia"---the regions he mentions in this comment were also given to the Ukraine in the early 1920s by the then soviet Communist leaders as well---which means Stalin.

    Seems Putin is attempting to rebalance historical decisions made by former Soviet Communist leaders even including Stalin.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bxj_bVNIQAAvn4X.png:large
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-15-2014 at 11:14 AM.

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