Re:
Interesting article. From what I am reading in Poole's latest book and from a few threads here it sounds like the local Iraqi Police and Army is heavily infiltrated with militias. Getting rid of FOBs and setting up strongpoints with the locals sounds great but I'm not sure I would like to be bunking up with them....
The local cops sure, the national police and Army havge traditionally not been a big problem as far as advisor/Iraqi relationships. I am fan of this idea personally. As one of the paradoxes nlisted is " The more secure you are the less security you have".
Lt. Colonel (Dr.) David Kilcullen, Australian Army
Let me suggest we get a few things clarified:
1. Winston Groom, of Mobile, Alabama, who I personally like, is a University of Alabama graduate, as am I, and is of course the author of FORREST GUMP. Groom is a many time accolated, world recognized author and was a Captain, USA in Vietnam.
2. Lt. Colonel (Dr.) David Kilcullen, Australian Army is of course a PhD anthropologist, with current expert knowledge both hands on in Iraq and academically dealing with Islam in various settings and forms. There is no reason to be dull and deny his academic focus which operates to compliment his military identity,which military side paid for his PhD.
3. Being a maverick and operating literally and in a think tank sense outside the box is desperated needed in all walks of life, worldwide, but especially in our War on Terrorism today. It is good to know we have the likes of Lt. Colonel David Kilcullen working for General Petraeus now.
Let's kick the old school, hide bound, military academy ring knocker thinking and snide remarks and find solutions to save lives and shorten this war on terrormism and in Iraq/Afghanistan, whose lifespan will last for generations to come, whether the yellow journalism practioners like it or not. "It's a fact" as Forest Gump would say!
The writer of this note served 1963-1965 as a young USAF office with the US Embassy then in Karachi, Pakistan. He is now retired as a reservist from HQ USSOCOM. He is a mean old coot, some would say. GS.
Last edited by George L. Singleton; 02-05-2007 at 02:42 PM.
Kilcullen and SWJ
Seems appropriate to quote that last line of the WP article.Kilcullen, the counterinsurgency adviser, wrote recently on the Web site Small Wars Journal, "All that the new strategy can do is give us a fighting chance of success, and it certainly does give us that."
And I will say that historically, the services in general and the Army in particular because I was Army have a long-standing love and distrust/disregard (not hate) relationship with those who are viewed as "too intellectual." We go in cycles and we are hopefully now re-entering a cycle where history is not viewed as a "background setting" for events. I actually had a self-declared historian use those very terms in telling me a history page was of less value than a web page on urban operations.
There is another article in this vein worth reading on Ike Skelton and history on the EBird and US News and World Report called "Armed With History."
Best
Tom
Last edited by Tom Odom; 02-05-2007 at 03:00 PM.
Hi George Singleton, Roll Tide!!! College degrees....uhhhh...lets see, I am a 3rd degree Redneck
What I'm hoping is that this doesn't mark a return to or reaffirmation of the business school mentality that the military saw in the 1960s and beyond. Just substituting the requirement for an Anthropology or International Studies advanced degree instead of business management isn't going to change anything. It may, in fact, just promote intellectual stereotypes and box-checking instead of business ones. Graduate schools can be just as hidebound, if not more so, than service schools and academies.
What we also need to watch for is the "system" setting up those internal dissidents for failure. I'm hoping this is a true conversion for some of the powers-that-be and not a stalling tactic designed to "stay the course" until the next elections and then blame failure on those who happen to have been in charge last (Petraeus and the like).
Agreed
Agree completely, SteveOriginally Posted by Steve Blair
Hi Steve,
That is a truly scary thought, especially when it comes to Anthropology. I do feel that the press article does seem to be constructing a Ph.D. as a magic bullet, and that is a BIG mistake. I know too many people with Ph.D.'s who can't think their way out of a wet paper bag, let along think outside of any box
.
There's another problem that hasn't seemed to have come up yet, and that is what, exactly, a Ph.D. stands for. There is, really, very little uniformity in it.
Marc
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
Senior Research Fellow,
The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
Carleton University
http://marctyrrell.com/
Sir,
I read this comment with great irony since GEN Petraeus and all three O6s mentioned by name in the article are West Pointers.
Cheers.
Shek
It was probably only a flash in the pan, but I had an opportunity to experience the 4th ID firsthand in mid-April, during the RIP between their elements moving north to Tikrit and TF Tripoli.No doubt that there were different situations and had units with different organic capabilities. However, having worked for a few weeks alongside 4ID and for a few weeks alongside 101, there was a world of difference, and much further beyond what just the different situations would create.
We were coiled up north of Samarra, basking in the joy of finally receiving packages and mail, when OH-58s and Apaches appeared over the long line of HETs that were dragging gear north to Tikrit. It was a little bit uncomfortable to watch an Apache circling the battalion TAA, tracking personnel on the ground with the slaved chain gun. Definitely a WTFO moment. It didn't stop there though, and within 15 minutes of the air troop's arrival, we had to call in our patrols because the Apaches began firing rockets, guns, and Hellfires at hell knows what across the highway, only a klick or so away. Needless to say, we were not impressed.
Dang marct, you hit one homerun after another! Perusing the Marine Corps career track webpages, I see several fellowships that put folks into the corporate world for a short tour, as well as graduate learning environments, but am not sure what that gets us.What I was trying to get at was the ability to look at a problem at from several angles, especially to include those that you disagree with or may not have otherwise ever thought of (e.g. the conservation with a NGO member) so that you can arrive at a solution that has thought through all the possibilities. Thus, as the proverbial saying goes, not all problems look like nails wanting a hammer to fix them.
How about a fellowship with the ICRC or other relief affiliated agency? I know, lot's of baggage with a Marine infantry officer sitting in on a relief delivery planning session, but perhaps these are just the walls we need to be breaking down.
J,
Your NGO fellowships have been proposed within the Army, but I have no idea what traction they've gained. At the cadet level, we run a bunch of summer trips that do NGO work, and are just now expanding the program to ROTC and the other service academies (where there is $$, there's a way!). While several weeks is not the same as a year, I'm sure that this short experience at such a junior part of one's career is a solid formative experience for company grade level ops.
Cheers.
Shek
But the key advisor is not a West Pointer!
Well said, and well taken.
However, General Petraeus has chosen as his chief advisor on counterinsurgency operations Australian Lt. Colonel David Kilcullen, who I believe is not a West Pointer, or am I wrong on that one? Like my late Uncle, Rear Admiral Art Gavin, graduate of U. of Wisconsin, who as a Navy 05 was put directly in command of all Navy and Army aviation in the Panama Canal Zone by the Secretary of War in Dec., 1941, immediately after Pearl Harbor. Art surely was hated by many brass hat and fat bottom Army and Navy flag ranks and senior 06s, but he was the best and right guy for that job at that time. I view Lt. Colonel Kilcullen, who is additionally a PhD, as in that mold and wish him well, too!
I am a USAF OTS product, commissioned Feb., 1963. Served as a Det. Commander with the old US Embassy in Karachi, then West Pakistan, housed with a bunch of you green suiters in a MAAG staff house next door to the Army 08 head of the USMAAG to Pakistan. His aide was my housemate and that aide, a lifelong friend since Karachi days, is now himself a retired 08, and was #2 in his class at West Point of 1958.
My job in Karachi from 1963-1965 was as USAF Liaison Officer for the Commander, 6937th USAFSS Group, ie, the base commander, US Air Base (U-2s) at Peshawar. As a Second and First Lieutenant this was a unique assignment but I grew and learned from all concerned, as I surely didn't know a damn thing at the get go!
The service academies are well and good, but many flag rank officers today did not graduate from the academies. Same applies to many fine 06s of all services today.
I turned down as a reserve officer 07 reserve promotion opportunity as the Air Force wanted me to come back on active duty for 8+ months to understudy with the four star then heading up US Space Systems Command. I could not spare the time, etc. away from civilian job and a young family, wife and three small children, and an aged Mom in an Alabama nursing home, who I essentially supported.
Taking USAF Reserve non-unit, largely purple suiter slots my last 12 years in the Air Force Reserve, by dumb luck, coupled with doing all the advanced schools, service and NWC courses, too, helped me as an "old man" make 06.
Colonel was and is good enough for me, when I would have been happy to retire as a Major. *I had been wounded as a non-combatant in the January, 1965 earliest phase of the India-Pakistan War in the Rann of Kutch, so when I left regular active duty in late 1967 did not join the USAF reserve until four years later, in part due to slow recovery from spinal wound from 1965 Rann of Kutch, etc. I limped like hell and hurt like hell for a few years before "rebouding."
Back to the task at hand, the War on Terrorism and in Iraq/Afghanistan. My wife and I were roundtrip on a Space A (Alabama Air Guard refuelding tanker) vacation July, 2006 in Germany and France (and in Belgium and Luxembourg).
At the American Cemetary at Normandy we met a group of 60 Dutch and US Special Forces, headed up by a senior Dutch NCO. They were all in less than two weeks from when we met them (beside Brigadier Roosevelt's grave, the son of President Teddy Roosevelt, killed at Normandy D-Day Landing) headed into Afghanistan. Having been there (Afghanistan and Pakistan) during 1963-1965, I was able to share some cultural, ethnic, linguistic, and religious experiences that I would hope may have been of some small benefit to these men, and to their mission and personal safety. The Dutch senior NCO made me feel good when he said very low key that he and his men were touring the American Cemetary as boys all under age 30, some in their late teens, to understand better that freedom is not free.
To close on a humerous note. One cousin by marriage is a West Pointer, retired as a Regular Army 05. The other cousin by marriage, (both married to my second cousins who are sisters) is a retired Regular Army 06, University of Alabama ROTC commissoned. If the 05 had used any degree of humility, he, too, could have retired as an 06.
My forte with USSOCOM, and it's predecessor, USREDCOM, and with TDY active duty orders short tours as a reservist with MAC (I ran the airlift in January, 1991 for Desert Storm out of Charleston); with FORSCOM (Peruvian and Bolivian drug wars in late 1980s); and CINCLANT (Admiral Kelso, the famous Navy pilots party CO) my last 10-12 years in the USAF Reserve, as a part time purple suiter, was computerized wargamming using Star Wars big bucks to set up the and help operate the JCS Wargaming Center at Ft. Lewis, which we later moved to it's current location at Hurlburt Field, FL. We developed the pc gamed scenarios and exercises that led to your battlefield pc fighting technology that helps you win and the enemy loose in firefights and such.
I am a mean old free thinker, who worked firing programs for Marine Corp artillery with the best of them, as an unusual example. Coordination of Navy ship bombardments and USAF planes bombardment. Computer gamed as well as tried in the field use of rough field ad hoc flying sites using C-130s and C-10s was a snap after dealing with mundane routing of support flights into and out of Peshawar "around K-2" the second highest peak in the Himalayas, by contrast, in 1963-1965.
I just hope that the Army isn't so short sighted as to "only" give PhDs to West Pointers. Other officers commissioned from other sources are just as bright, and very innovative, too. Not that many West Pointers aren't innovate, but I am biased that many of the West Pointers I knew in years gone by were to focused on their personal career advancement vs. doing the best job possible, whatever it was, for the corporate benefit, as in today's case, of beating back and down a multigenerational fight with radical Islam.
Serving the cause of our nation and the free world, to me, in my own career, part time though much of it was (only the first 6 years out of total 31 years military service were active duty) should in my book always come before personal ambition. Study the situation, apply your actual experiences, say what you think needs to be said and learned from, and don't worry about whether this will or won't profile you as one of "the boys" of the "ring knocker" old club for career enhancement.
Not meaning to insult anyone, but you have my blunt opinions.
Cheers,
George L. Singleton, Colonel, USAF, Ret. (perhaps too much rank for such a blunt outspoken redneck boy from Tennessee and Alabama)
GSingle556@aol.com
PS - Keeping our forces committed to Iraq smaller in number was not a mistake in my view. The mistake to me has been the belated forcing of Iraqis to shoulder as much of the fight as possible sooner, but damn slow elections and constutitional process wasted a bunch of time, in my opinion. Too, I would have and would now find a way to use Turkish troops by the division load! Airlift them over the Kurds. GS.
Last edited by George L. Singleton; 02-06-2007 at 12:56 PM.
GS:
Sir,
I wasn't trying to explicitly or implicitly speak of any superiority of West Pointers, just that whatever favoritism and/or groupthink might have once existed along commissioning lines does not exist anymore, at least at the macro-level. I'm sure that there may be small, limited examples that some can point out, but these would be the exception and not the norm.
Instead, the groupthink that exists does so along institutional fiefdoms/fault lines: SOF vs. conventional, light vs. heavy, etc., regardless of commissioning source. Iraq is serving to break many of these "traditional" lines of resistance between the groups, having been forced to work with each other to get jobs done.
As far as the educational opportunities available, there is no institutional "discrimination" among commissioning sources. However, this doesn't mean that they are necessarily equal. For example, the opportunities available for OCS commissioned officers probably used to be less when they were allowed onto active duty with only two years of undergraduate study - two years of their active duty time would already be dedicated to the degree completion program (DCP), limiting available time for further studies, which would be at the graduate level. However, for the past five years or so, OCS candidates have been required to have their undergraduate degree already, so this constraint doesn't exist with current year groups entering into the window for selection for grad school. Another possible example would be ROTC officers applying for USMA rotating faculty positions. There is no selection discrimination; however, some ROTC commissioned officers may not be aware of the opportunity, and so this could shrink the pool of potential ROTC commissioned officers being selected.
Additionally, the recent introduction of the graduate school for active duty service obligation (GRADSO) program, where cadets can sign up for the option for guaranteed graduate school at their school of choice (stateside) in return for extending their service obligation by three years, distributes slots on a relatively equal basis.
http://www.usma.edu/opa/adso/
So, in the end, I would concur fully with CSC2005's thought that these officers were selected based on their ability to contribute, not because of their commissioning source.
Cheers,
Shek
Grad School Programs
Just a couple of notes on grad school and masters programs inside and outside the Army:Additionally, the recent introduction of the graduate school for active duty service obligation (GRADSO) program, where cadets can sign up for the option for guaranteed graduate school at their school of choice (stateside) in return for extending their service obligation by three years, distributes slots on a relatively equal basis
A. Reference the current GRADSO program, it is a recent shift in programs versus an innovation. I attended grad school as part of the GRADSO program of the 1970s as a DMG top 5% on the graduate record exam.
B. Masters programs have been around in the Army for some time as well. The MMAS program at Leavenworth is quite good whether you do it via SAMS on a 2-year or you take the extra load required to finish it in a year. I did mine in a year and I recommend to all Leavenworth bound officers that they at least consider the MMAS.
Gratefully these progras are coming back--they went into near extinction in the 1990s aside from the handful of officers who are FAOs or West Point instructors.
Best
Tom
Commissioning officers with only two years of college
QUESTION: Does or does not Marion Military Institute in Marion, Perry County, Alabama, our nation's oldest (founded circa 1842) military prep school and junior college, still commission Associate Degree Second Lieutenants for the Army, who then have to complete the remaining two years of college for a full BA or BS while on active duty for an initial period of "x" number of years? Or is that source and commissioning procedure no longer used?
I think it's also interesting to look at the disciplines involved. Just reading the article, I felt that a "Ph.D." was being hailed almost as if it was a technology golden BB. I'm still undecided if it is a good thing hat everyone also has in the field experience. On the one hand, it means that they can operate well in a military environment. On the other hand, it means that their thinking will still be influenced by the military institution even if it is in reaction against the older norms. I guess we'll just have to wit and see.
Marc
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
Senior Research Fellow,
The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
Carleton University
http://marctyrrell.com/
One of the best military strategists and tacticians I knew while posted in Karachi was the late Australian Colonel George Humphrey Bates, who after his attache job in Karachi became the Commandant of Australia's equivalent of our West Point. If my memory serves me correctly, as I am now 67 and was 25 when I knew Colonel Bates and his family in Karachi.
George Singleton, Colonel, USAF, Ret.
USA
Will there be a Phase-two Surge?
My first reaction to reading this article was that these guys are all too sharp and ambitious to take the ball if it's just to run out the clock. Am I the only one expecting initial successes in Baghdad to lead to a full court press, second-phase Surge throughout Iraq?
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