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Thread: Officers With PhDs Advising War Effort

  1. #41
    Former Member George L. Singleton's Avatar
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    Default Unique perspectives or not via War College

    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    Hi Shek,



    I also thought the fashion metaphor was good - it reminded me of many academics I have worked with .

    I think you are right about the war college acting as an internal reinforcer of perceptions. Maybe they would get a better overall "experience" at a civilian graduate school. Honestly, I think it might be better still if they took degrees in civilian graduate schools outside of the US. That way you would get both a civilian "take"on the issue as well as experience in a different culture. It would be interesting to see what the graduate exchange programs are like. By way of example, a couple of my former students have studied in France, while others have studied in England, Australia, the US and New Zealand. The cultural difference alone does seem to make a lot of difference.



    Point taken ! One of the people in my Ph.D. cohort defined "critical thinking" as the ability to rip anyone's argument apart - that way you could get easy publications, still be perceived as "critical", and get a rep as a great theoretician. That particular one never really impressed me, but I did see a lot of it .

    Marc
    Marc:

    More small humor from "the old coot" kibitzer.

    As I was doing by correspondence the sections of my USAF Command and Staff College, which was being monitored and graded at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, Alabama by an active duty USAF 05 War College Professor, I did two things, a somewhat "fire for effect" to see what happens scenario. My half Irish impish nature, let's say.

    1. I quoted in my C&S paper a long article I in fact had written and published in the WALL STREET JOURNAL a few years earlier on the World Bank loaning to the poorest nations and the linked relationship of the Bank for International Settlements in Berne, Switzerland, where all nations have SDRs (special drawing rights to increase any/a nation's money supply/credit instantly for justifiable purposes of economic need when total national productivity or lack of same stoppers doing whatever requires more funding your country just "ain't" got at the moment). *My eclectic background included several years after active USAF duty, before I joined the USAF Reserve program, as an international banker in NYC. That experience was the basis on which I later wrote and published in the WALL STREET JOURNAL the SDR article, while working as a Congressional Budget Officer for the US Department of Veterans Affairs Central Office in Washington.

    2. I also noted an article on the decimation of the rain forest in Brazil and it's effect on the regional, even global economy via climatic impact, which in turn affects weather patterns which in turn affect some economic enterprises, all impacing the (old terminology today) GNP and NNP economic measures, both topics woven into total topic of affordability of "a" nation to deal with "guns and butter."

    Topic #1 cited in the bibliography the author as "George Singleton, then an International Banking Officer with Manufacturers Hanover Trust Co., NYC" , while #2 cited one of my former New York University Sterne Graduate Business School (night division) B-school economics professors.

    My C&S course/paper monitor didn't like my use of the WALL STREET JOURNAL as a source for what he accepted as related topic support material but overlooked/didn't notice who the author was (me!) somehow. On rebuttal, with further explination of my paper's goals and purposes, the 05 relented and agreed after all that "maybe" the occasional WSJ financial/economic reference was OK, still not noticing that I was the article's author.

    On the Brazilian rain forest decimation, the 05 paper monitor/grader still did not like the analogy, but finally accepted it, as I simply refused to take it out. And, as I did quarterly guest drills with the *Maxwell Base Commander's office to avoid frequent drill only commutes to HQSOCOM at MacDill in Tampa, I used a drill period to go sit down over coffee with the C&S 05 Professor (at that time I was still a reserve 05 myself) and talked him into "my logic and reasoning" to the point he let it go.

    *Base CO was a civil engineer by degree and used me to help redesign the entire base runway and road system. My BA was in history and poltical science, but because I had a night school MBA he felt "I must know what I was doing as I was then at the JCS level involved in both J4 and J5 plans!"

    Enough long winded blather. Unique thinking, and different experiences can all help solve problems, including war and civil affairs issues, if one has an open mind and can relate the pieces of the puzzle in an understandable and practical outcome manner.

    My view is we really wasted huge amounts of time undermanning and not dealing cohesively up front with the civil affairs needs of Iraq after our first few weeks of hot conflict ended there. I will not digress further into what might have been, as that is now pointless, I am sure you agree.

    George Singleton
    Last edited by George L. Singleton; 02-06-2007 at 01:36 PM.

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    GS:

    Sir,

    I wasn't trying to explicitly or implicitly speak of any superiority of West Pointers, just that whatever favoritism and/or groupthink might have once existed along commissioning lines does not exist anymore, at least at the macro-level. I'm sure that there may be small, limited examples that some can point out, but these would be the exception and not the norm.

    Instead, the groupthink that exists does so along institutional fiefdoms/fault lines: SOF vs. conventional, light vs. heavy, etc., regardless of commissioning source. Iraq is serving to break many of these "traditional" lines of resistance between the groups, having been forced to work with each other to get jobs done.

    As far as the educational opportunities available, there is no institutional "discrimination" among commissioning sources. However, this doesn't mean that they are necessarily equal. For example, the opportunities available for OCS commissioned officers probably used to be less when they were allowed onto active duty with only two years of undergraduate study - two years of their active duty time would already be dedicated to the degree completion program (DCP), limiting available time for further studies, which would be at the graduate level. However, for the past five years or so, OCS candidates have been required to have their undergraduate degree already, so this constraint doesn't exist with current year groups entering into the window for selection for grad school. Another possible example would be ROTC officers applying for USMA rotating faculty positions. There is no selection discrimination; however, some ROTC commissioned officers may not be aware of the opportunity, and so this could shrink the pool of potential ROTC commissioned officers being selected.

    Additionally, the recent introduction of the graduate school for active duty service obligation (GRADSO) program, where cadets can sign up for the option for guaranteed graduate school at their school of choice (stateside) in return for extending their service obligation by three years, distributes slots on a relatively equal basis.

    http://www.usma.edu/opa/adso/

    So, in the end, I would concur fully with CSC2005's thought that these officers were selected based on their ability to contribute, not because of their commissioning source.

    Cheers,

    Shek

  3. #43
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Default Grad School Programs

    Additionally, the recent introduction of the graduate school for active duty service obligation (GRADSO) program, where cadets can sign up for the option for guaranteed graduate school at their school of choice (stateside) in return for extending their service obligation by three years, distributes slots on a relatively equal basis
    Just a couple of notes on grad school and masters programs inside and outside the Army:

    A. Reference the current GRADSO program, it is a recent shift in programs versus an innovation. I attended grad school as part of the GRADSO program of the 1970s as a DMG top 5% on the graduate record exam.

    B. Masters programs have been around in the Army for some time as well. The MMAS program at Leavenworth is quite good whether you do it via SAMS on a 2-year or you take the extra load required to finish it in a year. I did mine in a year and I recommend to all Leavenworth bound officers that they at least consider the MMAS.

    Gratefully these progras are coming back--they went into near extinction in the 1990s aside from the handful of officers who are FAOs or West Point instructors.

    Best

    Tom

  4. #44
    Former Member George L. Singleton's Avatar
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    Default Commissioning officers with only two years of college

    Quote Originally Posted by Shek View Post
    GS:

    Sir,

    I wasn't trying to explicitly or implicitly speak of any superiority of West Pointers, just that whatever favoritism and/or groupthink might have once existed along commissioning lines does not exist anymore, at least at the macro-level. I'm sure that there may be small, limited examples that some can point out, but these would be the exception and not the norm.

    Instead, the groupthink that exists does so along institutional fiefdoms/fault lines: SOF vs. conventional, light vs. heavy, etc., regardless of commissioning source. Iraq is serving to break many of these "traditional" lines of resistance between the groups, having been forced to work with each other to get jobs done.

    As far as the educational opportunities available, there is no institutional "discrimination" among commissioning sources. However, this doesn't mean that they are necessarily equal. For example, the opportunities available for OCS commissioned officers probably used to be less when they were allowed onto active duty with only two years of undergraduate study - two years of their active duty time would already be dedicated to the degree completion program (DCP), limiting available time for further studies, which would be at the graduate level. However, for the past five years or so, OCS candidates have been required to have their undergraduate degree already, so this constraint doesn't exist with current year groups entering into the window for selection for grad school. Another possible example would be ROTC officers applying for USMA rotating faculty positions. There is no selection discrimination; however, some ROTC commissioned officers may not be aware of the opportunity, and so this could shrink the pool of potential ROTC commissioned officers being selected.

    Additionally, the recent introduction of the graduate school for active duty service obligation (GRADSO) program, where cadets can sign up for the option for guaranteed graduate school at their school of choice (stateside) in return for extending their service obligation by three years, distributes slots on a relatively equal basis.

    http://www.usma.edu/opa/adso/

    So, in the end, I would concur fully with CSC2005's thought that these officers were selected based on their ability to contribute, not because of their commissioning source.

    Cheers,

    Shek
    QUESTION: Does or does not Marion Military Institute in Marion, Perry County, Alabama, our nation's oldest (founded circa 1842) military prep school and junior college, still commission Associate Degree Second Lieutenants for the Army, who then have to complete the remaining two years of college for a full BA or BS while on active duty for an initial period of "x" number of years? Or is that source and commissioning procedure no longer used?

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    Having done both ROTC and West Point there are pro's and cons to each, but discussing those pro's and cons, in most cases, is little more than splitting hairs these days. As far as advantages go, the Army is pretty much a level ground as far as commissioning source vs. success. As far as masters programs go, From the mid 1990's until about 2 years ago, there were few opportunities to get a masters or higher degree if you stayed in your basic branch, your two choices were night school/correspondance course on your own, or go to Wetst Point and teach (which equals 5 years out of the field army). Other than that, you pretty much had to become a FAO or another functional area speciality to go to grad school, and face a choice at your Career Field Designation board that you probably were not going to be CFD'd into your . The Army is now offering slots for post command captains to go to grad school and remain in their basic branch. The Army has yet to be directive as to what you will study, but I believe that is coming.


    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSC2005 View Post
    While Tom Ricks did play up on the liberal stereotype of the military being uneducated and needing Ivy League policy makers to make the big decisions, I still give Gen Petraeus credit for bringing in a hand-picked group of creative thinkers.
    CSC,

    I disagree that Ricks is trying to portray the military as being uneducated.

    Instead, I see Ricks trying to 1) garner support for effort that Petraeus is trying to undertake and 2) convince the military that there is a tremendous value added in having officers with PhDs.

    Looking at my first point, having both read Fiasco and then having had a chance to hear him speak about the book in person, Ricks wants to see the US succeed in Iraq and is very critical of past mistakes that have been made. Clearly, he sees Petraues as a success story, and highlighting some of the differences that he and his assembled team could potentially provide is a reason for someone to give the new strategy a chance (one that Ricks sees as having a chance of succeeding), that it's not just "more of the same."

    For the second point, the fact that you have someone overtly reaching out to the "intellectual" community within the military is not the status quo (nor do most senior officers have PhDs - some form of civilian masters degrees, probably, although this number is quickly diminishing and becoming the exception due to our personnel policies implemented in the late 90s; these are the commanders that will make the decisions a decade from now about the worth of advanced civilian education, and it is easier for someone to discount the value of grad school when it didn't play a part in their career advancement). GEN Petraeus did the exact same thing as the 101 ABN DIV CDR. However, he had to pull mostly O-4s and O-5s as a mere division commander .

    Given how just two short years ago the Army was pulling officers out of CGSC early to send them to Iraq and the SecDef was explicitly looking at how officer education could be shortened/abbreviated, now is the time to make the case how critical education is to the military mission, and articles like this can potentially move the public and military in the direction where advanced education shouldn't be the exception and pursued at the risk of derailing one's career. I believe Ricks wants to portray that this should be more than just a fad (also, being based out of DC, the military personnel that Ricks tends to deal in the policy world with are those with advanced education, and so he is clearly cognizant of the fact that many military members are well educated).

    Lastly, here's a very apropos article from LTC Nagl (who's commanding a battalion right now) on the topic of education requirements across the spectrum of ranks.

    Cheers,

    Shek
    Last edited by Shek; 02-06-2007 at 02:21 PM.

  7. #47
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi George,

    Quote Originally Posted by George L. Singleton View Post
    Marc:

    More small humor from "the old coot" kibitzer.
    Not at all! It is "the sharing of relevant experience". Besides that, I'm an Anthropologist and one of the things that we know is that stories are the basis of "learning" because they combine both emotion and logic .

    Quote Originally Posted by George L. Singleton View Post
    Unique thinking, and different experiences can all help solve problems, including war and civil affairs issues, if one has an open mind and can relate the pieces of the puzzle in an understandable and practical outcome manner.
    I totally agree with that. I remember, during the 2nd year of my Ph.D. fieldwork, I was asked to give a "critique" seminar to the career counsellors I was studying. Within 20 minutes, we got into an intense discussion of how to construct their seminars using a model from the study of ritual (actually, a variant of Victor Turner's work). The discussion moved through all sorts of different religious traditions and, by about 25 minutes int it, we were arguing the relative merits of ecstatic rituals vs contemplative ones in training people how to write resumes. There was something surreal about discussing Divine Pomander and The Gospel of Norea in a business boardroom, but the changes made in their seminars reflected that conversation and, in the end, proved much more effective in getting people to write good resumes.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
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  8. #48
    Former Member George L. Singleton's Avatar
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    Default Unique manpower supply source - our prisons/jails

    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    Hi George,



    Not at all! It is "the sharing of relevant experience". Besides that, I'm an Anthropologist and one of the things that we know is that stories are the basis of "learning" because they combine both emotion and logic .



    I totally agree with that. I remember, during the 2nd year of my Ph.D. fieldwork, I was asked to give a "critique" seminar to the career counsellors I was studying. Within 20 minutes, we got into an intense discussion of how to construct their seminars using a model from the study of ritual (actually, a variant of Victor Turner's work). The discussion moved through all sorts of different religious traditions and, by about 25 minutes int it, we were arguing the relative merits of ecstatic rituals vs contemplative ones in training people how to write resumes. There was something surreal about discussing Divine Pomander and The Gospel of Norea in a business boardroom, but the changes made in their seminars reflected that conversation and, in the end, proved much more effective in getting people to write good resumes.

    Marc
    As a co-founder and past Alabama State Chairman of the Chuck Colson Prison Ministry, there are some (not vast numbers, but some) one-time, non-violent, higher IQ ex-offenders (ex-cons) who could make good enlisted men and women for any/all branches of our services. IN the process they would find a niche in life and could become military "lifers." These men and women are not of any one ethnic or racial background in my experience, but of all colors and backgrounds, bascially all from in the main poorer homes or lack of homes, and in need of remedial reading courses and such.

    From experience of 6 years on the Board of the Alabama Department of Youth Services (our juvenile, under age 18 jail system) we found the same thing, young teenage boys and girls, few but some in number there who could benefit the military if remedial reading and a stable environment were available, such as the military.

    In the middle of a hot war may seem an odd time to address this topic. But, some small subset of these do not need remedial reading, are actually well educated and just made stupid/dumb one time mistakes, and could be of use and easily/readily trained at the grunt use level right now.

    Please don't stop the war to deal with these side issues, but someone in military manpower should be gleaning these inputs and talking to the various service recruiting commanding generals to get something done to get and use the virtually ready to go now teenagers and younger adult ex-cons who made a one time, non-violent huge mistake. They are salvagable and I believe in the main would make good enlisted personnel.

    George Singleton
    Last edited by George L. Singleton; 02-06-2007 at 02:47 PM.

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi George,

    Quote Originally Posted by George L. Singleton View Post
    Please don't stop the war to deal with these side issues, but someone in military manpower should be gleaning these inputs and talking to the various service recruiting commanding generals to get something done to get and use the virtually read to go now teenagers and younger adult ex-cons who made a one time, non-violent huge mistake. They are salvagable and I believe in the main would make good enlisted personnel.
    And, quite possibly, excellent officers .


    Historically, military organizations have been an excellent way of allowing "troubled youth" (I think that's the current PC phrase) to get a good swift kick in the fundament and give them a chance to get both a future and a sense of meaning. And, given the nature of the current conflict, it's not a side issue - it is a fundamental problem.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
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    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Hi George, I don't know for sure but several years ago Marion Military academy was having tremendous financial problems. How and if that was resolved I don't know but they were trying to get major funding to remain open without drastic increases in tuition. PS- I will be in B'Ham next Thursday and Friday maybe we could meet up for lunch? Hey, you no where Duck town,Tenn, is? My parents are from there. Also you married an Auburn girl? Which side do you sit on when you go to the Iron Bowl

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    Moderator Steve Blair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    Hi George,



    And, quite possibly, excellent officers .


    Historically, military organizations have been an excellent way of allowing "troubled youth" (I think that's the current PC phrase) to get a good swift kick in the fundament and give them a chance to get both a future and a sense of meaning. And, given the nature of the current conflict, it's not a side issue - it is a fundamental problem.

    Marc
    Actually I think it's "challenged youth" or "youth at risk" these days. Or possibly "alternate behavioral lifestyle-oriented persons of pre-adult status"....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    Reference the current GRADSO program, it is a recent shift in programs versus an innovation. I attended grad school as part of the GRADSO program of the 1970s as a DMG top 5% on the graduate record exam.
    Sir,
    Keep in mind, that's a lifetime for me . Under the GRADSO program you completed, were you able to go immediately upon commissioning, or was it restricted until after company command as its current reincarnation does?

    Cheers,

    Shek

  13. #53
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Default GRADSO Circa 1976-1980

    Keep in mind, that's a lifetime for me .
    I know I am an old fart After 6 orthopedic operations --4 since retirement--the local surgeons call me when their business gets slow to see if I need a new tune up.

    But on the GRADSO program as I knew it, we were given the choice. You could go straight to grad school as a new 2LT or delay. You just had to start inside 5 years of commissionng. I did a tour with the 82d (we used C130s, C123s, and C141s--not C119s or C47s), my advanced course, and then started at the Naval Postgraduate School as a MidEast FAO wanna be. That got me into the FAO field earlier than most.

    Best

    Tom

  14. #54
    Former Member George L. Singleton's Avatar
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    Default Marion Military Institute current status

    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9 View Post
    Hi George, I don't know for sure but several years ago Marion Military academy was having tremendous financial problems. How and if that was resolved I don't know but they were trying to get major funding to remain open without drastic increases in tuition. PS- I will be in B'Ham next Thursday and Friday maybe we could meet up for lunch? Hey, you no where Duck town,Tenn, is? My parents are from there. Also you married an Auburn girl? Which side do you sit on when you go to the Iron Bowl
    Thanks for your note. Send me your cell phone number by e-mail with date and time of day you may be reachable here in Bham and we can have lunch, fine with me.

    1. MMI went broke and the State of Alabama took over the two year junior college program, from which in the past Second Lieutenant's flowed in goodly numbers.

    2. The prep or grades 6-12 private school of MMI remains just that, private, and also remains "broke." That issue, grades 6-12 is still being "discussed."

    3. The President of MMI is retired Marine Colonel James H. Benson, who has his PhD about completed from George Washington University in DC.

    4. My wife is a Yankee, a graduate of Cornell University, Ithaca, NY. Our oldest of three daughters has two architecture degrees from Auburn. Except for the Iron Bowl we sit with Auburn at Auburn games; with Alabama at Alabama games; and I sit with Alabama at the Iron Bowl, Alice switches, sometimes sits with our Auburn graduate daughter, sometimes with me, the Bama grad.

    5. Yes, I know Duck town, great place and area. Tennessee is a great state. Two of our three daughters chose to live and work in TN, one did two degees on scholarships at Vanderbilt, in fact. I sure couldn't afford VU with three children overlapping 3.5 years out of the 5 years (architecture is a 5 year degree) they were all three at Auburn, Vanderbilt and Furman (VU & Furman = our twin daughters).

    6. My late Dad did his college during the very early 1920s in the night division of Pace University in NYC, then named Pace & Pace Institute, where he studied accounting and auditing. He later did extra coursework at Auburn University in accounting and auditing when/while he was Chief Examiner of Public Accounts, Alabama's equivalent of other states Auditor's job. *Dad was #7 of 8 children.

    REGARDING MARION MILITARY INSTITUTE:

    In 2005 I donated to MMI's military museum my late Uncle Alex Singleton's WW I Sgt's wood tunic, with three wound stripes on the sleeve (that would be three Purple Hearts) together with his metalic thread sewn on Sgt's stripes. My late Dad, Bennett Powell Singleton of Union Springs, Bullock Co., Alabama, was Alex Singleton's younger brother. Dad (bps) was America's youngest veteran of WWI, ran away from home and enlisted in the Alabama Army Guard at age 14; two weeks later his Troy, AL ANG Company was called up with President Wilson's Declaration of War against Germany that kicked off US involvement in WW I. Dad was a Corporal, a Squad Leader. He was wounded in a trench in France when a German shell burst in the air over them. All his squad, four men on either side of Dad, were killed outright by the shell burst. Shrapnel blew off the left side/brim of Dad's pie-hat helmet, knocking him out. When Dad came to, all his squad dead, his Lt. was blowing the whiste to go over the top and attack the German lines. Dad did this, alone! He captured 25 Germans who simply "gave up" when this lone, skinny Corporal approached with a rifle mounted with his long bayonet!

    Dad mustered out of WWI, then in Germany in the Allied Army of Occupation, at age 16, was returned to an Army post in South Carolina, where he was given a train ticket home to Alabama.

    My Grandfather Singleton, who died 5 years before I was born, was a real "hard ass" lay Methodist minister, Probate Judge, and local businessman, general store, etc, etc. He welcomed my father, now with two Purple Hearts (wound stripes) home by blessing him out for running away from home. Dad's "punishment" was to be sent to Marion Military Institute, where he was "jump started" as a junior, having only completed the 8th grade before WW I!

    Since Dad's WWI uniform/gear were stolen by the movers when we moved from Alabama to Tennessee in the late 1940s. I used my inherited from my first cousin, his Dad was my Uncle Alex, WW I uniform blouse (NCO) to donate to the MMI military museum. This in 2005 really made my old Karachi Army friend, now a retired 08, furious, as he wanted me to give that wool WW I NCO tunic to some newly being formed Army Museum in Pittsburgh, PA where I never lost anything!

    Uncle Alex during WW I was also a brevit Lieutenant for six months or so, his Lt. having been killed in action in the Muse Argon. I also inherited from my first cousin his Dads, my late Uncle's WW I wool officer's tunic. In 2005 I donated that to the Textile Museum at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa, via my College of A&S.

    As Paul Harvey says: "Now you know the whole story that you didn't need to know so much about to begin with!"

    Dad died in 1984 at age 81 of heart disease. He chain smoked from age 14, in the trenches in France, WW I, until our family Dr., the late Dr. Thomas Frist, Sr. who was Dad's doc, talked Dad into quitting smoking together with him. Dad was age 53 when he quit smoking. Dr. Frist went on in Nashville, where I grew up, to found and chair Hospital Corporation of America (HCA).

    What a digression! Excuse me for taking too much space and time.

    George Singleton
    Last edited by George L. Singleton; 02-06-2007 at 03:30 PM.

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    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    George,I am retired Law Enforcement and I am now a security manager at a hospital in Montgomery that we bought from HCA?? Small World. I will email you contact information later. I am at my day job and I am about to get busy.

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    Jimbo - good to see you up on the net. I've been pretty busy the past month on TDY trips to Iraq, Germany and recently, Fort Riley. Headed out to work with the marines in Cali next week.

    Reference 1st BDE, 1st ID training the transition teams, all the current teams now go through an indepth training program at Fort Riley under 1-1 ID. I was out there last week with my boss pitching a fundamentals of Advisor work to the OC-Ts. On our tour through Iraq, alot of the feedback from the current advisors indicated they would have liked to had more advisor training prior to getting in theater. We gave classes to the 1-1 ID OC-Ts to "plant the seed" in the minds of our future advisors on what their roles, functions and challenges are and will be.

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    Sully,

    Damn, you guys have been busy. Dave and I are freezing our butts off here in D.C. It is weird wearing a suit to work everyday. The interagency issue is like banging my head against the wall on cetain days. Tomorow is a uniform day as I am over at the Pentagon all day. All I got to say is parking is easier at Leavenworth than around here, glad I take the metro in the morning.


    Jim

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    Default Casting a broader net

    Just thought you might like to know that the current MNSTC-I commander (Petraeus' replacement), LTG Marty Dempsey, has an MA from Duke in English Lit. His proposed replacement, LTG Jim Dubik, currently commanding I Corps, has a Philosophy Masters (from Hopkins I think)--both taught in the English Department at USMA in the 80s. I was a philosophy prof and overlapped with Marty (and with another guy, named Petraeus, who was teaching Social Sciences at the time). The CG down at Knox these days, MG Bob Williams, is another USMA English Department Alum (philosophy MA from Emory) from the same time period, as is the Deputy US MIL Rep at NATO (BG John Adams, English MA, UMASS-Amherst). Another up and coming guy, COL (P) Jeff Smith, was with us too--MA in English from UC-Berkley (I think he has since gotten the Ph.D too).

    The head of the English Department, BG (ret) Jack Capps, used to call us "the lunatic fringe." We were the element at USMA that taught critical appraisal and pushed our students to question their world, while all around them the rest of the Academy emphasized the notion of "cooperate and graduate." Cadet slang for the required philosophy class was "Drugs" as in "you have to be on drugs to understand what is going on in that class." We definitely encouraged out of the box thought .

    I think the level of advanced degree is less important than the place of study and the subject matter. Graduate studies in the humanities and social sciences tend to open one's mind to new possibilities, especially when one is a conservative military member attending school at a hot bed of liberalism like a Princeton, a Duke, or a UC Berkely in the early 80s. I remember having a great time trying to justify our invasion of Grenada to my fellow grad students and the Philosophy faculty at the University of Kansas.

  19. #59
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
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    Default A little more broadening...

    Quote Originally Posted by wm View Post
    I think the level of advanced degree is less important than the place of study and the subject matter. Graduate studies in the humanities and social sciences tend to open one's mind to new possibilities, especially when one is a conservative military member attending school at a hot bed of liberalism like a Princeton, a Duke, or a UC Berkely in the early 80s. I remember having a great time trying to justify our invasion of Grenada to my fellow grad students and the Philosophy faculty at the University of Kansas.
    While not directly on topic your comment brought back to me two items that have intrigued me concerning cultural understanding in an expeditionary environment. A SF officer told me that his group sent members to an Indian reservation to do humanitarian / construction missions - several Australian officers told me of a similar program where they sent Army officers and enlisted to Aborigine reservations to do the same. The thought process here was they would never be able to train for all the possible cultures they might encounter in the future – but they were firm in their belief that it was the “mindset” that was important – once you live in and learn one other culture it is easier to adapt and operate in additional cultures down the road. Basically - one was more open-minded concerning cultural understanding. They also commented that certain personalities amongst the service-members were more conducive to accepting other cultures… Wish I knew more about this but both instances were relayed to me in passing…

  20. #60
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Smile Ou est le Wal Mart?

    Quote Originally Posted by SWJED View Post
    While not directly on topic your comment brought back to me two items that have intrigued me concerning cultural understanding in an expeditionary environment. A SF officer told me that his group sent members to an Indian reservation to do humanitarian / construction missions - several Australian officers told me of a similar program where they sent Army officers and enlisted to Aborigine reservations to do the same. The thought process here was they would never be able to train for all the possible cultures they might encounter in the future – but they were firm in their belief that it was the “mindset” that was important – once you live in and learn one other culture it is easier to adapt and operate in additional cultures down the road. Basically - one was more open-minded concerning cultural understanding. They also commented that certain personalities amongst the service-members were more conducive to accepting other cultures… Wish I knew more about this but both instances were relayed to me in passing…

    Dave,

    That is the central core of cultural understanding--the mindset. That's why I harp on 2 base rules---you have to have the mindset. Even the best linguist in the world is useless and may in fact be harmful without that mental framework. I have talked this issue with SF and FAOs and others; I believe the selection process has to include some form of adaptabilty measurement.

    Where I have faulted the Dept of State in the past is their "adaptability" measures are really focused on how adaptable applicants are to a European/US centric environment centered on class structures and associated definitions of what constitutes "higher culture." In many ways the OSS and then the CIA followed the same path in selection and recruitment with he major exception that the OSS/CIA has always been willing to head hunt among the military, especially for covert operations.

    Again Dave, you got it!

    Tom

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