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Thread: Gazing in the Congo (DRC): the dark heart of Africa (2006-2017)

  1. #581
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    Hey M-A,...I will wait for you to take power and I will join you in K-town as your American advisor
    Better late than never but can I come too?
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  2. #582
    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Sur Carl, you can join. But be aware that the project includes the delocalisation of all institutions in Kananga, just like in the old belgium times.
    So we'll be sure none of the congolese politicians can escape.

  3. #583
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-A Lagrange View Post
    Sur Carl, you can join. But be aware that the project includes the delocalisation of all institutions in Kananga, just like in the old belgium times.
    So we'll be sure none of the congolese politicians can escape.
    And, Carl, we need a twin turboprop for short and quick landings

    M-A,
    Where are we going to put all those politicians ?
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

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    Stan asked:
    Where are we going to put all those politicians ?
    Ascension Island or West Falkland.
    davidbfpo

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-A Lagrange View Post
    So we'll be sure none of the congolese politicians can escape.
    If any of them make it into the bush, I knew a guy who was in good with the Pygmys. He could probably get us some good trackers.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

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    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    And, Carl, we need a twin turboprop for short and quick landings
    I can do that. In fact just so we keep in practice, that should be the norm.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

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    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    Stan asked:

    Ascension Island or West Falkland.
    No way, not Ascension David !
    I intend to buy that island with all the diamonds that M-A gives away. We'll need a resort to visit once Carl "obtains" our Kingair
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

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    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    M-A,
    Where are we going to put all those politicians ?
    If they start being bad boys, we can still make them work in Tshikapa mines or in the pineapples fields...

    No way, not Ascension David !
    I intend to buy that island with all the diamonds that M-A gives away. We'll need a resort to visit once Carl "obtains" our Kingair
    We also have to make sure the Virgin Islands are not too far, in case Tshisekedi attempt to size power.

  9. #589
    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Default Let's be serious...

    US, Rwanda plot to rout weakened FDLR
    Col. Nzabamwita was not categorical whether the new development – FDLR’s flight northwards – could lead to a possible alliance between FDLR and elements of Uganda’s notorious Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) militia based further in the north of the DRC, but it is clear that such an alliance would cause more mayhem.
    Amb. Walkley told reporters that: “We had a chance to discuss many issues that are part of my portfolio. We spent time discussing the armed groups particularly the threat constantly caused by the FDLR”.
    He noted that in the last three months alone, around 400 FDLR combatants returned home.
    “We are talking of military and non military civil activities against them. This is combined by a joint military punch that has scattered the FDLR who are now on the run. They are leaving their areas of operation in Walikale, in North Kivu, and are going further north to Lubelo and Beni areas,” the army spokesman noted.
    Source: New Times, 31 Jan 12

    Let's be serious for a seccond! FDLR and LRA meking an alliance? That's just crap to get US money.
    Joseph Kony is no way making alliances with anyone, he is too crazy for that.
    I would recommend a tied reading of the UN panel experts report, the last 2 ICG reports on LRA and the one on regional military cooperation. This will give to US special envoy a good understanding of the FDLR and LRA problematic with, in addition, an idea of what military cooperation is like in the sub region.
    Not saying that LRA and FDLR are not 2 serious peace spoilers but they are not related and will never be. Even Baba Lade in CAR was complaining of fake LRA envoy sent to him for so called alliances.

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    Default Rwanda

    We should do everything possible to distance ourselves from Paul Kagame. His name should only be referenced when answering game show questions asking - name a leader who was able to kill his way out of a problem, and then be embraced by the international community?

  11. #591
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Hey M-A !

    Quote Originally Posted by M-A Lagrange View Post

    Let's be serious for a seccond! FDLR and LRA meking an alliance? That's just crap to get US money.
    And so they will (get lots of cash) just as Secretary Clinton promised

    Secretary Clinton has tasked Ambassador Walkley with ensuring that the United States provides all the support it can to help the Great Lakes region fulfill its potential and become a space of sustainable peace and security.
    Quote Originally Posted by M-A Lagrange View Post
    Joseph Kony is no way making alliances with anyone, he is too crazy for that.
    I would recommend a tied reading of the UN panel experts report, the last 2 ICG reports on LRA and the one on regional military cooperation. This will give to US special envoy a good understanding of the FDLR and LRA problematic with, in addition, an idea of what military cooperation is like in the sub region.
    Not saying that LRA and FDLR are not 2 serious peace spoilers but they are not related and will never be. Even Baba Lade in CAR was complaining of fake LRA envoy sent to him for so called alliances.
    On the surface it seems AMB Walkley has the right credentials with many tours in Africa, but to think he will energize a military and civil attack on the FDLR with advice from COL Nzabamwita is a fools game.

    Maybe he thinks the 100 US troops in Uganda are going to sweep Kivu

    Quote Originally Posted by Strickland View Post
    We should do everything possible to distance ourselves from Paul Kagame. His name should only be referenced when answering game show questions asking - name a leader who was able to kill his way out of a problem, and then be embraced by the international community?
    You should have been around in the early 80s, then we could have had a really good game show. Kagame is harmless compared to the other dictators when it comes to killing one's way out of a mess.
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    Default Now you guys decide to become serious ...

    just when I was about to call Gino to get him out of retirement and into a seat next to Carl - then a Blue Goosing they would go.

    Regards

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    just when I was about to call Gino to get him out of retirement and into a seat next to Carl - then a Blue Goosing they would go.
    Regards

    Mike
    Mike,

    I'm affraid you're right. I should not have left down the pink elephants hunt.

    The actual operations against FDLR are just not the biggest success ever, despite an agreement from CIRGL members to strength their military cooperation.
    The immediat result is 100 000 people on the road fleeing combats between FDLR and self-defense/proxy combats.
    And most probably the worst humanitarian disaster since 2009 in the Kivu. (I know, kivu and humanitarian disaster sound redundent).

    In terms of FDLR capacities reduction... Well several hight officers have been killed, as sadiki, but it's mainly due to a business disagreement. And FARDC just said that their primary objective is to free the mines!

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    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Default Lost in teh heart of the dark continent

    Quickly, I would like to share a feeling of non comprehension and astonishment about US policy in the Great Lakes.
    Somehow, I feel lost about what the US are trying to do in the Kivu.
    On one side we have Washington screaming that elections were flawed, non credible and must be, at least, recounted. On the other hand we have US diplomats shouting to who wants to hear it that they are 100% with DRC government to increase military cooperation to fight FDLR and other peace spoilers.

    I mean, is there any logic in the US foreign policies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-A Lagrange View Post
    Quickly, I would like to share a feeling of non comprehension and astonishment about US policy in the Great Lakes.
    Somehow, I feel lost about what the US are trying to do in the Kivu.
    On one side we have Washington screaming that elections were flawed, non credible and must be, at least, recounted. On the other hand we have US diplomats shouting to who wants to hear it that they are 100% with DRC government to increase military cooperation to fight FDLR and other peace spoilers.

    I mean, is there any logic in the US foreign policies?
    Hey M-A,
    I think the DRC is now on the radar screen, but the current actions in Kivu are from previously funded programs that are not too often shut off when we disagree with things like local election results and human rights violations.

    All that said, the Ambassador has to make the call and shut down training and funding. Easier said than done.

    This Testimony on 02 FEB titled U.S. Policy Toward Post-Election Democratic Republic of the Congo may be a little late but at least getting attention following the January Congolese in DC:

    The U.S. and international community – foreign governments, international organizations, and NGOs – have contributed billions of dollars and thousands of advisors into the DRC over the years. To date, unfortunately, the GDRC has not shown the same commitment to reform, and we need to be clear: Without a strong and sustained commitment by the GDRC to democracy and human rights, little can be done that will be sustainable. However, the very fact that the elections have been so widely condemned may provide an opening to press for internationally accepted human rights standards and norms. Certainly, as Dr. Mendelson and Ambassador Yamamoto have testified, we will be pressing the GDRC to undertake effective reforms – not just with respect to elections, but with respect to the entire spectrum of human and civil rights.
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

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    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Default What’s going on between US and DRC?

    Congo-Kinshasa: Tension Grips City Amid Revolt Rumours
    BY JUAKALI KAMBALE, 4 FEBRUARY 2012
    Kinshasa — Tension remains high in the Democratic Republic of Congo's city of Goma after rumours of an attempted revolt went public.
    A military attempt against local authorities by disgruntled politicians was planned for Sunday, according to Mr Ernest Kyaviro, the spokesman of the governor of North Kivu province.
    Two policemen and two bodyguards were killed in an operation to thwart the mutiny at the home of a member of the outgoing National Assembly.
    Mr Bakungu Mitondeke residence was among those searched for firearms.
    Police allegedly recovered some automatic machine guns, ammunitions and military uniforms from Mr Mitondeke's residence.
    However, Gen Vainqueur Mayala, the military chief commander of the province, has denied knowledge of any such attempt in the province.
    http://allafrica.com/stories/201202050022.html

    Yesterday, the UDPS secretary General was arrested for few hours by secret police ANR while he was going to attend to a conference in Germany.

    The pro Kabila press is all over the military cooperation between US and DRC. They just announced the training of a battalion by US military in Kinshasa.
    Les Etats-Unis vont former un bataillon spécial à Kinshasa dans le cadre du renforcement de la coopération militaire RDC-USA
    Les Etats-Unis comptent renforcer les capacités des Forces armées de la RDC avec la formation d’un bataillon spécial à Kinshasa. L’annonce a été faite par l’AFRICOM.
    http://www.digitalcongo.net/article/81232
    (I translate)
    The US will train a special battalion in Kinshasa as part of the reinforcement of military cooperation between US and DRC
    The US espect to reinforce FARDC capacities with the training of a special battalion in Kinshasa. The announcement was done by AFRICOM.

    DRC government is increasing its pressure on political opposition. And in the same time, US army is developing DRC government military capacities (to repress political opposition to Kabila?). Under the cover that even if elections were fraudulent, it was a step in the good direction?????
    I never thought that Kabila had so many dedicated friends in the US administration.

    Stan, even Tom would have found this a little inappropriate. What’s going on?
    I am sincerely not sure that increasing DRC governement military capacities will ease any of the SSR and JSR or even bring any peace in the Great Lakes.
    The idea that dictatorship is better than weak democracy is just a stupid one. Look at the results in Ivory Coast and Senegal!

  17. #597
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-A Lagrange View Post
    Stan, even Tom would have found this a little inappropriate. What’s going on?
    I am sincerely not sure that increasing DRC governement military capacities will ease any of the SSR and JSR or even bring any peace in the Great Lakes.
    The idea that dictatorship is better than weak democracy is just a stupid one. Look at the results in Ivory Coast and Senegal!
    Hey M-A,
    This is something that the USG doesn't seem to comprehend well. When we teach African military, there's no telling what they will do with that training. In this case, the soldiers there are for:

    The U.S. military, Ham said, has focused on facilitating intelligence, and in a State Department-led effort, U.S. personnel trained a battalion of the Democratic Republic of the Congo’s armed forces. Ham said the U.S. government was looking to increase support to the counter-LRA efforts by increasing the number of military advisors and trainers and training another battalion.
    What should happen, is the Department of State (via the Ambassador) turns off the training. That, is a little easier said than done.

    This is one of the things Tom and I had to constantly deal with - our image and the right thing to do. But, communicating problems is not always good for one's career path
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  18. #598
    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Default Let’s have a look at what is going on in North Kivu…

    … militarily wise

    First: the DRC government analyse of the situation:


    Insécurité à l’Est : Mwando en a parlé avec Meece
    Le ministre congolais de la Défense nationale, Charles Mwando Nsimba, s’est entretenu lundi 30 janvier avec le chef de la Mission onusienne de "stabilisation" au Congo, le très controversé Roger Meece. L‘entretien s’est déroulé à l’état major général des FARDC (Forces armées de la RD Congo). Les deux hommes se sont contentés de constater ce que tout le monde savait. A savoir que la situation sécuritaire à l’Est est «préoccupante».
    http://www.congoindependant.com/arti...articleid=7086
    (I translate)
    Insecurity in East : Mwando talk about it with Meece
    The Congolese Minister of Defense, Charles Mwando Nsimba, had a talk this Monday 30 january with the head of UN stabilization mission in DRC, the very controversial Roger Meece. The meeting was hold at the FARDC HQ. The 2 men only came to the conclusion that everybody knows: security context in East is preoccupying.

    Now the OCHA point of view:
    OCHA/NORD-KIVU RAPPORT HEBDOMADAIRE AU 11 JANVIER 2012
    Plus de 35 000 personnes seraient déplacées sur l’axe Walikale – Kibua suite aux affrontements armés
    http://www.rdc-humanitaire.net/index...1-janvier-2012

    OCHA/NORTH KIVU Weekly Report 11 January 2012
    Population displacement on Walikale-Kibua road could be over 35 000 individuals

    Now the DRC Government response:

    Nord-Kivu : les FARDC promettent de «nettoyer» les FDLR à WalikaleSelon radiookapi.net, le porte-parole de l’opération Amani leo, le colonel Sylvain Ekenge, a indiqué que des actions des forces loyalistes sont envisagées pour rétablir de l’ordre dans ce site minier.
    «Face à la situation actuelle où il y a des affrontements entre les FDLR et les Maï-Maï Cheka, il y a des actions qui sont envisagées dans le secteur et on a pris toutes les dispositions pour que le secteur soit nettoyé des FDLR et des Maï-Maï Cheka. Et, on va ramener le calme dans le secteur de Omate pour permettre aux opérateurs économiques de Omate et Bisiye de vaquer librement à leurs occupations», a-t-il dit.
    http://www.lepotentiel.com/afficher_...article=119524
    (Itranslate)
    North Kivu : FARDC swear they will “clean up” Walikale from FDLRAccording to Radio Okapi (the UN radio station), the Amani Leo operation spoke man, colonel Sylvain Ekenge, has informed that actions by loyalist forces are under review to bring back order in this mining site.

    “Actually there are combats between Mayi-Mayi Cheka and FDLR, actions are under review in the area and we took all the measures for this area to be cleaned up from FDLR and Mayi-Mayi Cheka. And we will bring back order and calm in the Omate sector for the economical actors from Omate and Bisiye to work freely.” He said.

    Finally the result:
    Nord-Kivu : les FARDC reprennent deux carrés miniers de Walikale
    L’armée régulière congolaise (FARDC) a repris lundi 6 février le contrôle des carrés miniers de Bisié et Omate, dans le territoire de Walikale, au Nord Kivu, à l’issue de combats avec les miliciens Maï-Maï de Cheka. Ces deux localités étaient occupées depuis près d’une année par divers groupes armés nationaux et étrangers.
    Deux combattants Maï-Maï ont été capturés lors de ces opérations qui entrent dans le cadre du nettoyage du secteur de Walikale par les FARDC.
    http://radiookapi.net/actualite/2012...s-de-walikale/
    (Itranslate)
    FARDC take back 2 mining areas in Walikale
    FARDC has taken back on Monday 6 February 2012 control over the mining sites of Bisiye and Omate in Walikale territory, in North Kivu, after combats with Mayi-Mayi Cheka. Those 2 localities were occupied since approximately a year by various national and international armed groups.
    2 Mayi-Mayi combatants have been made prisoners during those operations that enter in the frame of Walikale pacification.

    I think it is quite clear…
    FARDC, in North Kivu, as UN experts panel did demonstrate, are under Bosco Ngatanga command. Bosco Ngatanga is a war criminal wanted by the ICC and, according to UN panel Experts, he is at the head of illegal mineral trade in North Kivu.

    Now, AFRICOM is going to train those guys to be more efficient? Oh Boy!

    This is one of the things Tom and I had to constantly deal with - our image and the right thing to do. But, communicating problems is not always good for one's career path
    Stan, I know exactly what you mean and how it feels.

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    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Default DR Congo: Learning the Lessons

    The analyses of DRC legislative elections by ICG:
    DR Congo: Learning the Lessons
    The political complexion of the National Assembly remains much the same but there are some subtle changes.
    Whether the results are credible or not, they unquestionably reveal some major trends:

    ■the political landscape is more fragmented;
    ■the presidential camp has lost some ground but not lost its dominant position;
    ■the opposition has renewed its ranks without significantly improving its overall position;
    ■Congolese politics is divided along ethnic-provincial lines.
    http://www.crisisgroupblogs.org/afri...g-the-lessons/

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    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-A Lagrange View Post
    The analyses of DRC legislative elections by ICG:
    Hey M-A,
    A very good report ! This para in particular is intriguing:

    The western donors remain hesitant. Despite their public criticisms of the election, their options range from the strong temptation to do nothing to a carefully weighed “review” of international engagement with the Kabila government. Although the western donors genuinely want to learn lessons from the 2011 elections, the least they can do is to consider how to avoid a repeat of the 28 November elections during the forthcoming provincial elections.
    With all those new fractions in the majority, I can only wonder how many more black Mercedes will be ordered this year
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