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Thread: Gazing in the Congo (DRC): the dark heart of Africa (2006-2017)

  1. #381
    Council Member Michael F's Avatar
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    Allow me to humbly give my little contribution...

    Willl FDLR die of old age ? Yes and No (that's so european).

    First, every passing day, their AK get rustier,... but they can still buy some from undisciplined FARDC and Mai-Mai.
    Second, the troops are not ageing. Children and grand-children are trained and equipped.
    Third, they don't really leave in the jungle. FDLR villages are as much confy (so to say) as any congolese village so the mortality rate is about the same as that of any congolese.
    Fourth, the current operations (Umoja, Kimia) have led the FDLR command to reinforce its controll through propaganda and discipline over the troops.

    On the other hand, with time passing by, FDLR dividing in smaller villages under pressure, this may lead to the creation of tinier FDLR communities that would mix better with some local tribes (hutus in North Kivu). Some of them could become Banyarwanda in a few years.

    My point is FDLR will maybe erode a bit with time but there will still be a small group that will remain.

  2. #382
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    Default PSYOP and Gacacas

    Stan and Michael,

    Excellent posts as usual.


    On what may reduce the lure of the FDLR, this is the most potent PSYOP weapon:

    Rwandan genocide survivor finds solace in gacacas

    CNN) -- For Morris Murenzi, a visit to his native Rwanda always includes attending a gacaca court -- a local tribunal of villagers set up to try suspects in a 1994 genocide that killed 800,000.

    The gacaca courts, as seen here in 2003, are inspired by old village tribunals used to settle disputes.

    At the proceedings, he sits with his countrymen. Some tearfully confront their attackers and testify against them, their scars from the genocide still visible. Others -- like him -- quietly listen, their emotional scars invisible. They wait and hope for answers about how their relatives died as a nine-member panel questions suspects.

    "Some of the witnesses who ask questions are disfigured, others are disabled," said the Dallas, Texas, resident whose last gacaca trial was in Kigali two years ago. "The attackers have no place to hide. They are forced to address what they have done to the victims."

  3. #383
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    Default Quietly, Congo's Death Toll Continues to Climb

    Quietly, Congo's Death Toll Continues to Climb
    5 Million Deaths Make Conflict Deadliest Since WWII

    By Stephanie McCrummen
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Saturday, August 1, 2009; 2:50 PM

    By some estimates, at least 5 million Congolese have died in more than a decade of conflict touched off by the 1994 genocide in neighboring Rwanda, which sent a flood of militiamen across the border into mineral-rich eastern Congo. Although the conflict has surged, receded and changed over time -- at points involving eight countries and at others breaking into smaller conflicts among a mess of armed groups -- the cumulative death toll in eastern Congo is the largest since World War II.

    For the most part, though, people in eastern Congo have not died in a blaze of bullets or large-scale massacres. More often, the conflict has set off a chain reaction of less spectacular consequences that begins with fleeing through an unforgiving jungle and ends with deaths such as Mihigo's. In eastern Congo, people die from malaria and diarrhea, from untreated infections and measles, from falling off rickety bridges and slipping down slopes, from hunger and drinking dirty water in the hope of surviving one more day.

    Arguably, people die because of the wider social impact of the conflict. Entire villages have been scattered across hundreds of miles, atomizing extended family networks that people depend upon in difficult times. The conflict has overwhelmed already-dysfunctional government hospitals and left roads rutted and overgrown, isolating people in villages like Walikale from help.

    At the moment, the conflict in eastern Congo is surging once again. Since January, at least half a million people have fled a U.N.-backed Congolese army operation targeting Rwandan rebels, which Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is expected to discuss in a visit to Congo this month. The rebels are retaliating against villagers with whom they have lived for years.
    They mostly come at night. Mostly.


  4. #384
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Default Bulldozing Churches

    looks like they did get at least one of the top guys.

    The 5 million death toll may indeed be inflated but the central fact--that this is the longest, bloodiest, and certainly most costly conflict since WWII--remains in stark contrast to the lack of interest. Don't get me wrong: I am not advocating a large scale intervention as that has been done too many times. But we need to assist those that show an interest and an aptitude in changing this reality.

    Tom


    Suspect in Rwandan Genocide Is Captured After 15 Years in Hiding

    ...Mr. Ndahimana is wanted by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda in Arusha, Tanzania, as a Category 1 suspect, a rank reserved for the chief planners and executers of the genocide that killed nearly one million ethnic Tutsi and moderate Hutu.

    According to the indictment, Mr. Ndahimana conspired with the parish priest and other officials to exterminate the many Tutsi taking refuge in the church. The siege lasted days and ended when officials razed the church with a bulldozer, killing more than 2,000 Tutsi refugees inside, the indictment says.

  5. #385
    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Unfortunatly, with FARDC you have to more worried about what they can do to civilians than to FDLR. But, suprisingly, MONUC came with a "new" idea to try to control those crazy FARDC during their "FDLR hunt".
    They renew the stick and carott trick with food support against respect of human rights. This is working a little, OK. But that is an idea to be developed.

  6. #386
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-A Lagrange View Post
    Unfortunatly, with FARDC you have to more worried about what they can do to civilians than to FDLR. But, suprisingly, MONUC came with a "new" idea to try to control those crazy FARDC during their "FDLR hunt".
    They renew the stick and carott trick with food support against respect of human rights. This is working a little, OK. But that is an idea to be developed.
    No doubt and that has long been the case as well as much of the root issue in the area, that being the forces of law and order are the source of the disorder.

    Tom

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    For SA.

    Rapid Reaction Force, 1st Battalion is on the ground training here in the DRC as I am typing this from Kinshasa planting the seed for change.

    Change will not happen tommorrow as there are no straight lines in the Congo, but it is a start in the right direction.

    You will see positive things from this unit in the future and it won't be as owls creating fear amongst the people.

  8. #388
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Interesting that we actually made it to the DRC (again). As I recall President Kabila requested the USA train a rapid reaction force back in 2007. We were also going to do renovations in Kisangani for say a battalion or more.

    It was early 85 and the USMM had also promised to do something in Kisangani. I won't even comment on training the (then) FAZ

    Jorban, Welcome aboard !
    Please take a few minutes and introduce yourself here.

    Take care in K-town !

    Regards, Stan

    PS Are DAO drivers Mwembo and Kambali still at the Chancery ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorban View Post
    For SA.

    Rapid Reaction Force, 1st Battalion is on the ground training here in the DRC as I am typing this from Kinshasa planting the seed for change.

    Change will not happen tommorrow as there are no straight lines in the Congo, but it is a start in the right direction.

    You will see positive things from this unit in the future and it won't be as owls creating fear amongst the people.
    Last edited by Stan; 08-23-2009 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Added question
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  9. #389
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    I did a quick internet search about the 1st Battalion, Rapid Reaction Force. Is this the unit being trained by the South African Army in Katanga?

    If it is, what part of the country do the soldiers and company officers come from and who is going to direct, transport and supply them?
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  10. #390
    Council Member Michael F's Avatar
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    Default 1st BN RRF ??????

    Sorry to ask but according to previous press articles. a RRF Bn has already been trained (Kananga) and deployed (Kindu) with Belgian instructors and advisors.

    http://www.diplomatie.be/fr/pdf/unlimitedfr0309.pdf
    http://www.africatime.com/rdc/nouvel...no_categorie=1
    (in french)

    ???????????

    SA will train 1, who will train the 10 others ?????? US, Angola, .... China ????

    At the hand of the day, you can create as much elite units as you want, if they are not paid and fed,........

  11. #391
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Hey Michael !
    I was perhaps mistaken thinking it was the US, not South Africa.

    CinqChantiers-RDC


    Quote Originally Posted by Michael F View Post
    Sorry to ask but according to previous press articles. a RRF Bn has already been trained (Kananga) and deployed (Kindu) with Belgian instructors and advisors.

    http://www.diplomatie.be/fr/pdf/unlimitedfr0309.pdf
    http://www.africatime.com/rdc/nouvel...no_categorie=1
    (in french)

    ???????????

    SA will train 1, who will train the 10 others ?????? US, Angola, .... China ????

    At the hand of the day, you can create as much elite units as you want, if they are not paid and fed,........
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  12. #392
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    ALCON,

    This is the same DoS 2007 effort you may have read about before, but now in action on the ground. Phase 1 of the effort is training 180 Officers, and NCO's from the KIVU and surrounding Provinces at the GESM in Kinshasa and is nearing completion. I lead the team that is conducting the training.

    Phase 2 and 3 will take place starting in the beginning of 2010 in Kisangani where facilities are now being constructed and the rest of the Battalion soldiers are right now.

    This effort is feeding the soldiers and surprisingly it looks like the MOD is going to pay them as well. WKYP on how the pay works out.

    We are using contract drivers from a local vendor to support our team.

  13. #393
    Council Member Michael F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorban View Post
    ALCON,

    This is the same DoS 2007 effort you may have read about before, but now in action on the ground. Phase 1 of the effort is training 180 Officers, and NCO's from the KIVU and surrounding Provinces at the GESM in Kinshasa and is nearing completion. I lead the team that is conducting the training.

    Phase 2 and 3 will take place starting in the beginning of 2010 in Kisangani where facilities are now being constructed and the rest of the Battalion soldiers are right now.

    This effort is feeding the soldiers and surprisingly it looks like the MOD is going to pay them as well. WKYP on how the pay works out.

    We are using contract drivers from a local vendor to support our team.
    A few Friendly & free to discard advises:
    * Be carefull about the MoD commitment to fund the food bill and salaries...especially in Dec (national budget dries down to a minimum, no $ reserve especially this year, most will depend on a IMF loan in reserve to save the Congolese Franc).
    * Be carefull about who you contract as local vendor if there is "**** future" in the name...you are in the deep S..T.
    * Watch out for ex-CNDP military brought in Kisangani and local students (prone to demonstrate).



    Michael

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    Thanks for the sage advice.

    DRC MOD has stepped up and paid the Officers and NCO's we are training as of yesterday.

    They also have supplied weapons for training, 3 Trucks with drivers for transport, Tentage and cots.

    Not perfect, but definitely a step in the right direction.

    DoS/AFSOC is supplying the food for the near term.

  15. #395
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    An interesting development and indeed a step in the right direction.

    The problem with that solution is, it's simply too short term. Will we be feeding and clothing them into 2015 ? Keep in mind what generated the last 3 civil wars and upheaval. The military has worthless money, firearms, ammo, and, one fine day just imploded.

    The only remotely successful programs I saw were the Egyptians and Israelis. They were there 24/7 and took no prisoners.

    Our DOD programs were (probably still are) designed around a country getting their act together with a functioning government. Magically, the country reaches a point where they sustain the momentum (not steal everything and split the AO). Sadly, in over a decade, I barely saw the fruits of all that money from the USG.

    I would ask you to take a second and introduce yourself as above in my previous post. Take a second and check out the other intros. Nothing special is needed, just 5 seconds of your time.

    Regards, Stan

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorban View Post
    Thanks for the sage advice.

    DRC MOD has stepped up and paid the Officers and NCO's we are training as of yesterday.

    They also have supplied weapons for training, 3 Trucks with drivers for transport, Tentage and cots.

    Not perfect, but definitely a step in the right direction.

    DoS/AFSOC is supplying the food for the near term.
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  16. #396
    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Actually the problem that goes with the solution is more complex that just clothing and feeding the FARDC.
    If you look at Numby personal troops , they are well trained, well paid and disciplined.
    On the other hand, if you look at ex CNDP/FARDC, they are not paid, well trained and almost disciplined.
    Taken now the average former may-may FARDC, they are not paid, not trained, not disciplined.
    That is only the top of the iceberg.
    Cause if you look deeper, you will found that the FARDC or whatever you call them troops in DRC have a tradition on harassing population inherited from Belgium colonisation. Do not get me wrong, but they see their position not as warrior stuff but as business investment.
    They do not respond to a chain of command but to a chief that feed them, cloth them and share the treasure with them.
    Training is the easy may be working solution. What you will never be able to put in their mind is the fact that they defend a nation, a population, a flag, honour or what ever you put into military function.
    One collegue of mine compared them to barbarian tribes from antique rome. He was talking about the fact they move to battle with their famillies and all the rest.
    But indeed he was not that far from what they are in fact: the army of a king or chief. And with 74% officer, you can imagine what the word chief may have for meaning
    The first step is to break that. Actually you re not training DRC army but Kabila and foes troops. The day someone else come to power: all your efforts are lost.
    Separating chain of payment was one first smart move (and you still have 40% lost)
    Now you have to look closer to chain of command. Also build barracks, houses for families, insure families get paid while dady is having fun at war, putting kis at school...
    And give FARDC a real taste of what being a soldier is: suffering with only #### for food and jail for fun house if they do wrong on the ground
    They are like kids you have to nurse.
    The only example I have in mind of good behaviour of troops in DRC is from 2004:
    One of the commander I use to now in Ituri had a simple rule: you still 1$ from population: 1 slap with a good bambou stick.
    If they were caught in a bar: same price (1 beer=5 slap).
    If you rape: death penalty...
    I believe the guy that stole 2000$ must remember in his grave the meaning of obeydiance and discipline. But after the place was safe from that side.
    Not saying it is the solution but it is part of it.
    They have to learn, even officers, what is the meaning of military discipline.
    But their gov has to pay them also...
    And still, does not solve the problem of what you train for whom and which purpose. But that is politics

  17. #397
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-A Lagrange View Post
    Actually the problem that goes with the solution is more complex that just clothing and feeding the FARDC.
    If you look at Numby personal troops , they are well trained, well paid and disciplined.
    On the other hand, if you look at ex CNDP/FARDC, they are not paid, well trained and almost disciplined.
    Taken now the average former may-may FARDC, they are not paid, not trained, not disciplined.
    That is only the top of the iceberg.
    Cause if you look deeper, you will found that the FARDC or whatever you call them troops in DRC have a tradition on harassing population inherited from Belgium colonisation. Do not get me wrong, but they see their position not as warrior stuff but as business investment.
    Neither Stan nor I would disagree. Stan has 10 years continous service in Zaire I have 3 books relating to the Congo/Zaire uinder mine as well as a year in country as the DATT--working with Stan as my right (and left) hand man.

    On traditions inherited from colonial powers, yes and no. The Force Publique was less than gentle but then again less harsh than the forces of the Congo Free State under Leopold. The ANC inherited that tradition somewhat--but remember that the original ANC mutinied when Belgium wanted to keep its officers in place past independence. That was of course nearly 5 decades ago. The comfortable excuse of blaming colonial policies is threadbare at this stage; independence connotes responsibility, something that books like Hochschild's Leopold's Ghost refuse to acknowledge.

    Best
    Tom

  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    Neither Stan nor I would disagree.
    ... On traditions inherited from colonial powers, yes and no.
    Best
    Tom
    Hey Mate ! Seems your batteries are charged

    Slightly related and in my pathetic opinion - In the end it won't matter who performs the training and feeds them if they (the instructors), up and leave following the course. Just as soon as the rations are gone and equipment sold, we'll be back at square one.

    There weren't too many Zairois during my time that had much good to say about the Belgian Colonization. But, they were quick to note that everything was abundantly available and all their children were doing well in grade school alongside white children.

    We can call it discipline or control, but the end result would be the same. I used to admire those embassy folks wandering aimlessly in Kinshasa thinking they were behind some force field without a clue what was happening in the bush.

    Someone gets to stay behind for the long haul til the next generation of child soldiers are in their teens. It's that, or no one will be able to turn off the current trend (certainly not some profound new version of the DSP).

    Regards, Stan
    Last edited by Stan; 08-28-2009 at 06:07 AM. Reason: typos !
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  19. #399
    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Hey Tom, did not mean to hurt anyone, I just tried to provide my personal analyse.
    I do agree with all what you say on the FAZ and Force Publique.
    My point is that previous from Force Publique, in both East and West part of Congo you had classical military tradition.
    The Kongo Empire was making war like any empire. The aim was to conquer land and establish imperium. It is the Portuguese that turn them into slave traders. Last independent Kongo king or emperor fought to stop slave trade and was killed by the Portuguese in 17th century.
    In East, the slave trade was introduce by stanley via Tipo Tipps.

    Wars in DRC since 1994 look like the European "guerre de trente ans" (sorry I am french). They did not invent anything: war has to feed and sustain war is an old story. Fully follow you on that.

    My point is that in DRC we are in a pattern where army is no more at population service. During Mobutu, the army was the army of the king and ruler. FAZ were feared by population and already harassing population. The big riots of 1991 were ignited by FAZ as Mobutu could not support them financially anymore. Then it became politic.

    That has not changed. Regularly, there are "coup alerts" in Kinshasa as Kabila is 1 day late to pay troops assigned to government members’ protection for example.

    This is the main problem with the actual FARDC. The second main problem comes from the behaviours they have. This is partly inherited from Force Publique. Not saying it use to be the norm. But it is the actual norm as FARDC are mainly composed with former may-may and stuff like that. And those guys do have Force Publique for model and their leaders as well.

    Do not mistake me, I do have respect for military function. And I do also have deep attachment to Congolese population. Introducing the barter food for discipline was a try to protect population from their “protectors”.
    The tool is limited and the problem is that most officers do not have understanding in the aim of their function.
    The example I gave was put in place by a former FAZ commander trained in Belgium during the 80. But he and soldiers of his quality are no more in position in Kinshasa now days. It is a shame. They had honour and sense of command. This I fully agree.

  20. #400
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    MA

    Absolutely no issues or offense taken. We--meaning the West and others like the Egyptians and even the Chinese--have spent years trying to inculcate service to the people as a function of duty for the state in the FP, the ANC, the FAZ, and now the FADRC. I remain a sceptic in these efforts. The standard pattern is exactly what we are doing today: build a new unit, give it a new name, and then watch it fall apart. I hope I am wrong in suggesting that will happen again. Time will tell.

    Best
    Tom
    Last edited by Tom Odom; 08-28-2009 at 09:28 AM.

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