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Thread: Gazing in the Congo (DRC): the dark heart of Africa (2006-2017)

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  1. #1
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Hey Carl !
    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    If AFRICOM were to get some funding for a solution, what would it look like, in the eastern Congo at least?
    I enjoyed your e-mails and I'm thinking along the very same lines (not exactly U.S. SWC strategy, but Sub-Sahara doesn't always play by the rules ...so why should we ?).

    Quote Originally Posted by carl
    Stan: You mentioned in the post regarding the NYT story about rape in the east of the DRC that perhaps AFRICOM could fund a solution. I wonder what the solution would be. The only thing I could think of that would work would be talking Kabila into putting a brigade of the FARDC in the hands of some A-teams and allowing them to train and lead it. Then, sending them forth to do the Lord's work. Carl
    Before I start, I'd like to share what a 'retired' SNCO wrote me after crossing back into Uganda on the 'slide' (timeframe intentionally omitted): "Dude ! I really needed your Frog and Lingala today. Nearly a brigade of armed UN soldiers came through - Indians are fun to watch -, moving on foot from street to street and every corner in between protecting something strategic (I have no clue). With nothing better to do, I tried to strike a conversation with one. ####, you should have seen this boy, he was weighed down with belted ammo and some RPG-kinda-lookin-weapon on his shoulder (wished I paid more attention at Bragg's anti-terrorist school instead of drinkin with you Stan !). I greeted him in English out of the blue, and he replied with a facial expression as if he had just been spoken to by a talking goat...Hey Dude ! LOLOLOL

    I've known this SF NCO for better than 28 years. However, I have no idea what he was there for. He likes this Sierra and keeps inviting me to join a beltway bandit company and, run with him.

    That said, Carl, I think some folks are already 'forward in the foxhole'. AFRICOM ? Nope, I think folks like BW are spooling up. If I was intent on bartering for contracts, I'd put my money on eastern Congo too. Just seems to fit together with AFRICOM opening her doors. Even with 800 folks, they can't and won't slip into Goma for a 'look see'.

    Your suggestion: A brigade of FARDC (Forces Armées de la Republic Democratic du Congo) under the leadership of an 'A-team'.

    I don't like that idea for many reasons because I can't trust the Zairian mentality two inches from my nose.

    If we look at what happened after a 10-day course with MONUC (Mission des Nations Unies en République Démocratique du Congo) in July 2005 (a mini Officer Basic Course), one should quickly realize just what happens when the 'Patron' goes home - back to basic survival. MONUC came back in late 2006 only to discover that these "professionally trained soldiers and leaders" were the root of the problem, only smarter and better equipped. One DRC Officer recently promoted to 0-6 used his rank to extort money from local business people in the Ituri district.

    We won't win at this rate, and the training is only making them professional thieves.

    My answer (and I have some SF buds previously in Zaire who agree). Dump mucho BS on the AP wires of imminent paratroopers into Goma from France, Belgium and the USA. Allow said BS to marinade for a week or so and really send two supported-infantry battalions and flank Goma from the east and west simultaneously destroying everything in their path. There will be no airlift of humanitarian supplies like water or rice (or baby clothes - ask Tom).

    Exit Strategy. Dig mass grave, lime to taste, remain on full-boil for one month, destroy all weapons and ammo, take no prisoners and pull plug.

    Jungle Rules Apply !
    Last edited by Stan; 10-11-2007 at 06:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Stan:

    I guess what I meant was A-Teams the way I understood them to work in Vietnam, not only training the people but staying with them and leading them in the field.

    That is probably not politically feasible, but something along those lines or perhaps like the British officered Arab Legion from the old days is what I was thinking of. The leadership would have to be other than Congolese for the reasons you state.

    This all pie in the sky most probably but if you could talk everybody into it, I don't think the force would have to do much fighting. Once the force was trained well, BS on the AP would get the rapists thinking about it, and then one real battle to prove the force was serious might cause everybody else to melt into the bush.

    My basic idea is get a force of Congolese privates with trustworthy commisioned and non-commisioned officers who would probably have to be ex-pats.

  3. #3
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    Stan:

    I guess what I meant was A-Teams the way I understood them to work in Vietnam, not only training the people but staying with them and leading them in the field.

    That is probably not politically feasible, but something along those lines or perhaps like the British officered Arab Legion from the old days is what I was thinking of. The leadership would have to be other than Congolese for the reasons you state.

    This all pie in the sky most probably but if you could talk everybody into it, I don't think the force would have to do much fighting. Once the force was trained well, BS on the AP would get the rapists thinking about it, and then one real battle to prove the force was serious might cause everybody else to melt into the bush.

    My basic idea is get a force of Congolese privates with trustworthy commisioned and non-commisioned officers who would probably have to be ex-pats.
    Carl,

    What you are describing happened in 1964-1965. I just don't think anyone has the stomach for it anymore.

    The world's solution to this now is the same as it was in 1994-1996 when I wrote report after report warning it was coming. That is to say, make clucking noises over the 94 genocide and say, "never again" looking sternly at the camera until the lights go off. Then ignore it until it comes up again and repeat with variations authorized.

    The reality is that if the Congolese (a term used most loosely) do not fix it, it will not be fixed. That is why I liked the RPA--they did something on their own and they stuck with it.

    Best

    Tom

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    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Tom:

    I am going to have to read up on the events of 64-65 since my ignorance is showing.

    Could you say the problem in the eastern DRC are large groups of militarized bandits? So the solution wouldn't so much involve a FM 3-24 type counterinsurgency operations as much as punitive expeditions where you would kill a bunch and hopefully frighten the rest into good behavior.

    I am asking this because I talked to a Pakistani officer in Kisangani once and he told me how much more sophisticated their operations in Congo were compared to American operations in Vietnam. I remember thinking to myself that if these guys were essentially bandits how sophisticated do you have to be.

  5. #5
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Hey Carl !

    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    Stan:

    I guess what I meant was A-Teams the way I understood them to work in Vietnam, not only training the people but staying with them and leading them in the field.

    That is probably not politically feasible, but something along those lines or perhaps like the British officered Arab Legion from the old days is what I was thinking of. The leadership would have to be other than Congolese for the reasons you state.

    This all pie in the sky most probably but if you could talk everybody into it, I don't think the force would have to do much fighting. Once the force was trained well, BS on the AP would get the rapists thinking about it, and then one real battle to prove the force was serious might cause everybody else to melt into the bush.

    My basic idea is get a force of Congolese privates with trustworthy commisioned and non-commisioned officers who would probably have to be ex-pats.
    I'd be more concerned about those that 'melted into the bush', as historically, they often come back for incomprehensable reasons that usually result in trouble. Probably why the former pres Mo put all his enemies in the river. There's no exile, no coming back, no funeral...just fish food.

    Even with the large numbers of Indian peacekeepers there, performing basically peace enforcement, they've accomplished little. I also feel those in charge did not assume just how much risk is acceptable risk. It reminds me of what happened to Canadian General Dallaire's UNAMIR with 5,000 troops. They fought off small military excursions and slowed the killings, but it didn't take long to realize he went there literally unarmed for a bout in the bush.

    In order to do this job, we'll need good ol' western leadership combined with ruthless professionals like the RPA.

    Here's the link to Tom's Dragon Operations: hostage rescues in the Congo, 1964-1965. If the PDF doesn't open (I had to try 3 times) you can just go here (which is actually a little easier on the eyes).

    Regards, Stan

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    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    In order to do this job, we'll need good ol' western leadership combined with ruthless professionals like the RPA.
    I wonder if Bono would partially finance the effort? He could have a concert in a big stadium and everything. Nah, probably not.

    I have a copy of Dragon Operations at home but haven't read it yet. I can do that now by computer. That should complete Tom's trilogy, unless there a fourth I don't know about.

  7. #7
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    I wonder if Bono would partially finance the effort? He could have a concert in a big stadium and everything. Nah, probably not.

    I have a copy of Dragon Operations at home but haven't read it yet. I can do that now by computer. That should complete Tom's trilogy, unless there a fourth I don't know about.
    I'm thinking AFRICOM will sub-contract !

    Tom's long overdue for a 4th. He probably should give up his day job, leaving more time for the Bambie hunts

    A 4th book however may mean a return to WAWA and I ain't going. Previous editions sent Tom to Belgium for historical data. This time however, he can just ask himself how bad the Sierra was.

    As always, you and I will provide support, at the FOBs

    EDIT: What in creation is that in the picture ? Now here's a squirrel with balls !
    Last edited by Stan; 01-09-2008 at 08:23 PM.

  8. #8
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    1. Leavenworth Paper #14 Dragon Operations

    2. Shaba II The French and Belgian Intervention in Zaire in 1978

    3. Certain Victory the US Army in the Gulf War, Co author with Bob Scales and Terry Johnson

    4. Journey Into Darkness Genocide in Rwanda

    #5? Who knows?

  9. #9
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Tom, speaking of "Certain Victory"

    Do you recall Rex Davis during that effort at Leavenworth?

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