Page 12 of 41 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 221 to 240 of 809

Thread: Gazing in the Congo (DRC): the dark heart of Africa (2006-2017)

  1. #221
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default More on the Rwanda-France Flap

    Looks like Andrew Wallis and Linda Melvern are getting some air time:


    Calls for France to rethink its Africa role
    A Rwandan report this week charged Paris with complicity in the 1994 genocide.
    By Robert Marquand | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
    from the August 8, 2008 edition


    Paris - A bombshell of a report by Rwanda this week implicating high-ranking French officials in the arming and training of Hutu forces that committed genocide in Rwanda – could have been issued last November. President Paul Kagame sat on the 500-page study, approved by the Rwandan Senate, for months.

    It was a time of some bonhomie with France. President Nicolas Sarkozy and Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, much liked in Kigali, were working on a new rapprochement policy – after Rwanda broke all ties with France in 2006 over a French judge's indictment of Mr. Kagame for allegedly ordering an assassination in 1994.

    Kagame, a Tutsi, appears to have lost patience with France. He had hoped that the 2006 indictment would be renounced and that high-level Hutus still living in France would be deported to Rwanda to face genocide charges.

    Still, what is likely the last major report on the 1994 Rwandan genocide that killed more than 800,000, leaves France with an embarrassing problem – one cutting to the heart of its own political elite, to a network of French unofficial "parallel structures" of commerce and intelligence in Africa, and to how a major power will deal with thorny questions of justice about its behavior in the postcolonial world.
    France and genocide: the murky truth
    How far was Mitterrand's Government involved in the slaughter of hundred of thousands of Rwandans?

    Linda Melvern

    There is remarkable television footage shot in the first days of the genocide in Rwanda. It shows a large room in the French Embassy in Kigali filled floor to ceiling with shredded documents. This was probably the paper trail that might have revealed the depth of involvement between the Elysée Palace and the Hutu faction responsible for massacring hundreds of thousands of Tutsi and opposition Hutu.

    This week Rwanda's commission of inquiry published its findings into the role of France in the genocide of 1994. The report - the fruit of two years' work that includes the testimony of 638 witnesses, including survivors and perpetrators of genocide - is damning. It says that certain French politicians, diplomats and military leaders - including President François Mitterrand - were complicit in genocide. The French authorities knowingly aided and abetted what happened by training Hutu militia and devising strategy for Rwanda's armed forces. Training and funding was also given to Rwandan intelligence services on how to establish a database later used to draw up a “kill list” of Tutsi.

  2. #222
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default RUSI article on Rwandan military makes good reading

    Davidbfpo was truly gracious in copying and sending me a copy of an article from RUSI june 2008, Vol 153, No.3.

    The title is "The Boot is now on the Other Foot" by Greg Mills. Mr. Mills discusses the evolution of the Rwanda Patriotic Front/Army into the Rwandan Defense Forces. He offers insights on the wars in the Congo that are quite illuminating. If you have access to RUSI via your library I would recommend looking at this one.

    Best

    Tom
    Last edited by Tom Odom; 08-14-2008 at 05:06 PM.

  3. #223
    Council Member Michael F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Dear Tom Odom,

    I fully agree with most of your points (no need of US trg for RPA to invade DRC, Kagame and corruption,etc...) but i have some doubts about "he is not about to become the lead in expanding Anglophone Africa".

    1. Rwanda used to be a French speaking country (in addition to Kinyarwanda off course)and only Rwandan Tutsi living in Uganda since the independance are English speakers. Since RPF took controll over the country, English is becoming the defacto official language despite French still being more spread among the population (It’s spoken fluently by eight percent of Rwanda’s population as compared with only three percent for English, according to official statistics).

    2. Contacts with the Commonwealth organization have been established and Rwandan consider joining.

    3. Rwanda moved away from the CEAC (mostly French regional association) to EAC (mostly English speaking association).

    4. Google and check the multiple articles on the very RPF "Rwandan Times" about visits of Kagame to London and the US, or visit of UK conservative MPs to Rwanda. It's just amazing. Oh, i almost forgot...Tony Blair (retired UK PM and Rwanda's unpaid adviser).

    etc...

    He may not be the lead of expansion but he surely is helping that.

  4. #224
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    I would say we are in agreement; my point is that Kagame's purpose in establishing such ties is to serve Rwanda, not some greater Anglophone conspiracy as it was described in the mid-90s by the French in defense of Francophonie. Secondly I would say the changes are more a reaction against the French (and the French language) than a desire to promote Anglophone interests, whatever that means.

    The worst mistake outsiders can make regarding Kagame is to assume he is doing something to please someone or some faction outside Rwanda rather than serving Rwandan interests as he defines them.

    Michael great posts! Welcome

    Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael F View Post
    Dear Tom Odom,

    I fully agree with most of your points (no need of US trg for RPA to invade DRC, Kagame and corruption,etc...) but i have some doubts about "he is not about to become the lead in expanding Anglophone Africa".

    1. Rwanda used to be a French speaking country (in addition to Kinyarwanda off course)and only Rwandan Tutsi living in Uganda since the independance are English speakers. Since RPF took controll over the country, English is becoming the defacto official language despite French still being more spread among the population (It’s spoken fluently by eight percent of Rwanda’s population as compared with only three percent for English, according to official statistics).

    2. Contacts with the Commonwealth organization have been established and Rwandan consider joining.

    3. Rwanda moved away from the CEAC (mostly French regional association) to EAC (mostly English speaking association).

    4. Google and check the multiple articles on the very RPF "Rwandan Times" about visits of Kagame to London and the US, or visit of UK conservative MPs to Rwanda. It's just amazing. Oh, i almost forgot...Tony Blair (retired UK PM and Rwanda's unpaid adviser).

    etc...

    He may not be the lead of expansion but he surely is helping that.

  5. #225
    Council Member Michael F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Tom,

    I agee, Kagame does what his best for himself, the Rwandan national interests,... It's fairly realistic and wise. Alone Rwanda cannot attract the much needed investments it needs to cope with its economical disavantadges (landlocked country, lack of available land,...). It needs also to secure diplomatic support for its security policy (FDLR).

    You seem to have a good knowledge of Kagame's background. Can you confirm me an "African legend" about him? Is he the nephew of mwami Kigeri V ? Sorces disagree about that and his bio is silent about it.

    Michael

  6. #226
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    Michael,

    According to Stephen Kinzer and Colin Waugh, both his parents were of royal lineage. His mother was cousin to the Queen married to King Mutara III Rudahigwa. It was the King's chaffeur--sent by the Queen--who rescued Kagame's familiy when the first post-independence slaughters began. His father drank himself to death in exile.

    All of this means his familial ties were noble and into the Queen's side of the throne; not clear it they went to the king's side.

    Tom

  7. #227
    Council Member Michael F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Great answer.
    It creates an historic link between the Mwami's and the current president and makes him a member of the royal clan.

    I just made some research and found some interesting websites about Kagame's royal linkage: http://www.orwelltoday.com/readerrwandaqueen.shtml AND http://www.orwelltoday.com/kagamerwandareturn.shtml

    Most relevant among all: "His (kagame's) mother, Asteria, was a sister of the late king's wife, Rosalie Gicanda. King Mutara Rudahigwa had died in Burundi in 1959 and his successor, Kigeli V returned to Kampala in 1972 and was able to offer moral if not material support to his relations in exile." according to Sharangabo Rufagari.

    I did not know about his father's suicide. Surely due to the living conditions in the refugee camps.

  8. #228
    Council Member carl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Denver on occasion
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Regarding the RUSI article Tom mentioned:

    just google rusi june 2008 vol 153 no.3

    and it comes up. It was the fifth from the top when I did it.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  9. #229
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    Thanks Carl!


    Here is a direct link:

  10. #230
    Groundskeeping Dept. SWCAdmin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    DC area pogue.
    Posts
    1,841

    Default

    In response to
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael F View Post
    Most relevant among all: "His (kagame's) mother, Asteria, was a sister of the late king's wife, Rosalie Gicanda. King Mutara Rudahigwa had died in Burundi in 1959 and his successor, Kigeli V returned to Kampala in 1972 and was able to offer moral if not material support to his relations in exile." according to Sharangabo Rufagari.

    I did not know about his father's suicide. Surely due to the living conditions in the refugee camps.
    ...we received the note below. Posting it here as a courtesy, as received [sic]. I have encouraged Mr. Rufagari to join the forum and add to the discussion.

    Dear Sir,

    I would like to correct something which was said about Paul KAGAME on the Blog and I am quoted on It.

    While surfing the web.I came across your blog and find out that your members were discussing about PAUL KAGAME and the Rwanda army.Altough I have written extensively on the internet about Rwanda's subject I have not produced any academic or referencial document on the country.

    Regarding the passing away of KAGAME'S father and for correction in what has been written on yor blog.I am informing your members that the father of Paul Kagame passed away due to NATURAL CAUSE(IlLness) and not as a suicide as it was wrongly stated by one of your blog members.

    Hoping that my present statement will be published for all your members to Read.

    Thankfully

    Sharangabo Rufagari

  11. #231
    Council Member Michael F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Dear SWCadmin,

    It would be very interesting for M. Rufagari to join this discussion indeed.
    Regarding the passing away of President Kagame's father, I did not find anything on the web confirming he committed suicide or died of sickness. It will remain a mistery or a topic of discussion.

  12. #232
    Council Member Michael F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SWCAdmin View Post
    In response to

    ...we received the note below. Posting it here as a courtesy, as received [sic]. I have encouraged Mr. Rufagari to join the forum and add to the discussion.
    An other reason to ask Mr. Rufagari to join this forum would be to discuss with him about the current events in North Kivu (DRoC). He seems to have some opinions about Laurent Nkunda and the CNDP over there. It would be interesting to have some of his comments about that "small war".

  13. #233
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    Stephen Kinzer describes Kagame's father and essentially says that he drank himself to an early death. Whether you call that suicide or not is subject to intepretation.

    In any case, welcome to the forum Mr Rufagari

    Tom

  14. #234
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    Stephen Kinzer describes Kagame's father and essentially says that he drank himself to an early death. Whether you call that suicide or not is subject to intepretation.

    In any case, welcome to the forum Mr Rufagari

    Tom
    And speaking of Mssr Kinzer: he spoke of the French in the 15 August International Herald Tribune

    RWANDAN GENOCIDE
    A devastating report on France's role
    By Stephen Kinzer Published: August 15, 2008

    Is the defendant's dock at the International Criminal Court reserved for leaders of small and poor countries that defy the West? Not if Rwanda has its way. It wants to charge some of France's most celebrated leaders of the 1990s as collaborators in genocide.

    Last week the government of Rwanda issued a damning 500-page report documenting France's participation in the 1994 Rwandan genocide. This marks a remarkable turnaround in the deeply politicized world of human rights reporting. Usually, such reporting takes the form of governments or human rights groups based in the West condemning poor countries for having political or social systems that do not meet Western standards.

  15. #235
    Council Member Michael F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    75

    Default

    I have been reading the article with attention.

    The Rwandan report is the answer to the French one and it comes shortly before the Rwandan national elections !!!! This is no coincidence. It's (smart) political manouvring.

    From the French point of view, the opinion is quite divided. President Mitterand (left) is blamed for the French attitude in Rwanda by the Right which is also uneasy because, the government at that time was composed of member of the Right. The French Left tries to save Mitterand's image. Meaning, both Left and Right parties tend to downplay what happened or avoid to talk about it. French press is quite silent.

    In such political circunstances, in France, no politician will take up the responsability to present excuses for what happened by fear of being accused of tarnishing France's image, Mitterand's image (if he/she is from the Left), or admit the Right was manipulated by Mitterand (if he/she is from the Right).

    For excuses to be made, time will be needed (Mitterand will stop being considered as an icon by the Left, and Rightwing politicians then in office will be out of the current political scene).

    Quite long......

  16. #236
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default DR Congo army 'works with rebels'

    It appears it's business as usual in Congo - "you can take the man out of WAWA, but you can't take the WAWA outta da man"

    Indeed a shame those former Zaïrois didn't conclude a working agreement back in 2003, saving them thousands of lives and yet another refugee crisis !

    The Democratic Republic of Congo army is collaborating with rebels to mine gold and tin, instead of fighting them, says lobby group Global Witness.

    Its researchers found that the two groups operated their own mines and even traded with each other.
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  17. #237
    Council Member Michael F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    75

    Default

    When local and petty financial interests impose it, Congolese military will work with anybody to make money (except the Tutsis).

    Corruption in the chain of command is also to be found at the top with according to EU audits, up to 1/3 of the congolese army being ghost soldiers. Meanwhile, troops on the field are unpaid, indulge in pludering to ensure incomes,...

    Congolese soldiers, once paid and fed, are good troops but left to themselves, they are just a bunch of militia warriors.

  18. #238
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael F View Post
    When local and petty financial interests impose it, Congolese military will work with anybody to make money (except the Tutsis).

    Corruption in the chain of command is also to be found at the top with according to EU audits, up to 1/3 of the congolese army being ghost soldiers. Meanwhile, troops on the field are unpaid, indulge in pludering to ensure incomes,...

    Congolese soldiers, once paid and fed, are good troops but left to themselves, they are just a bunch of militia warriors.
    Hey Mike !
    I couldn't agree with you more. Well, except for the part about being paid, fed and then behaving themselves .

    They've been off-setting the chain of command's salaries with ghost soldiers since the day I got there in 84. As late as 94, same old story. But, it's not just the military; there's plenty of blame for each and every Minister and the Mines/Mining has never been above board. I witnessed so much during my time in Sub-Sahara that nothing would surprise me now.
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  19. #239
    Council Member Michael F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Based on my personal experience, congolese soldiers (i mean boots on the ground) are not bad troops (hard working, motivated to improve their skills, disciplined if well led,...).
    With good officers and a decent salary (a situation sadly unseen since the independance), they are a match to their rwandan colleagues.

    Just as a scientific experiment, I would like to see what would become of a NATO unit if unpaid, unfed, far from the families, and deployed in a remote jungle for more than 02 years without reach back/Log support (not that i wish it to happen to me).

  20. #240
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael F View Post
    Based on my personal experience, congolese soldiers (i mean boots on the ground) are not bad troops (hard working, motivated to improve their skills, disciplined if well led,...).
    With good officers and a decent salary (a situation sadly unseen since the independance), they are a match to their rwandan colleagues.

    Just as a scientific experiment, I would like to see what would become of a NATO unit if unpaid, unfed, far from the families, and deployed in a remote jungle for more than 02 years without reach back/Log support (not that i wish it to happen to me).
    Although I definitely see and understand your point, my decade in that region tells me differently. I've seen Belgian, Egyptian, French, German, Israel, and US professional training there. And, even in her heyday, Zairian military and guard Civil performed abysmally at home and abroad.

    I have to disagree, the Rwandan Armed Forces behaved like an Army and were brutal. I have yet to see that intestinal fortitude in Zaire.
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

Similar Threads

  1. Tom Barnett on Africa
    By SWJED in forum Africa
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-22-2006, 12:46 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •