The myth of Russian humiliation

[AmericanPride]

Here is your core problem---ethno driven neo imperialism is all about emotions and driven by propaganda

We've already had this conversation about your misuse of the term 'neo-imperialism'.

If Putin and his crew were in fact driven by human behavior then it would be far easier to determine just where he is headed---and right now his driving principles are not those of say European leaders or in fact the common man on the street in Paris.

What does the views and experiences of the 'common man on the street in Paris' have to do with Putin's own perceptions and decision-making?

Why because we in the west took him at his word until the Crimea and failed to even take notice of the new Russian ethno defined and driven neo imperialism and the ever developing form of Russian "fascism".

Actually the mainstream criticism of Washington policy towards Russia since 1991 has been that the U.S. not taken into account any of Russia's words, legitimate or not. The U.S. has more or less assumed that Russia is no longer a big deal. And, we've also already discussed your misuse of the term 'fascism'.

Playing fast and loose with the concepts doesn't help anyone, but I'm pretty sure you're not here to actually have a conversation about Russia.

So pray tell was the "threat" especially in light of the fact that NATO is a shadow of itself?

As I've already explained, it's about perception, and that perception is also within the context of historical continuity. I know, difficult concepts. World War II (you know, that conflict that killed up to 25 million Soviet people or 14% of the population) put Russian security paranoia into overdrive and it has not abated much since. It's called national or transgenerational trauma and it's deeply rooted in Russian foreign policy and national security. Combine that with the deficit between Russia's perceived and ascribed status and you have a reciepe for risk-taking in foreign policy.

Come on AP---just what was the "humiliation"---

Like neo-imperialism, fascism, and state risk-taking, I've also already answered this question.

"victim" and were just "responding to protect their victimness".

That's your interpretation. I've never used the word 'victim'. And that terminology doesn't provide any value-added to understanding Russia's motives.

This AP is what the European northern countries think right now about the Russian "humiliation" in light on this Russian leadership that is currently not reacting as normal sane thinking humans.

And I'll ask my question once again that you have repeatedly avoided: if Russian leadership is "not reacting as normal sane thinking humans" or if they are "irrational" and live in an "altered state of reality", how can you be confident that any Western response will produce the desired results in Russian behavior? You can't have it both ways: either Russia is a rational, predictable state and countermeasures can elicit a predictable response, or Russia is an irrational state and countermeasures will produce unpredictable responses.

[OUTLAW 09]

We've already had this conversation about your misuse of the term 'neo-imperialism'.



What does the views and experiences of the 'common man on the street in Paris' have to do with Putin's own perceptions and decision-making?



Actually the mainstream criticism of Washington policy towards Russia since 1991 has been that the U.S. not taken into account any of Russia's words, legitimate or not. The U.S. has more or less assumed that Russia is no longer a big deal. And, we've also already discussed your misuse of the term 'fascism'.

Playing fast and loose with the concepts doesn't help anyone, but I'm pretty sure you're not here to actually have a conversation about Russia.



As I've already explained, it's about perception, and that perception is also within the context of historical continuity. I know, difficult concepts. World War II (you know, that conflict that killed up to 25 million Soviet people or 14% of the population) put Russian security paranoia into overdrive and it has not abated much since. It's called national or transgenerational trauma and it's deeply rooted in Russian foreign policy and national security. Combine that with the deficit between Russia's perceived and ascribed status and you have a reciepe for risk-taking in foreign policy.



Like neo-imperialism, fascism, and state risk-taking, I've also already answered this question.



That's your interpretation. I've never used the word 'victim'. And that terminology doesn't provide any value-added to understanding Russia's motives.



And I'll ask my question once again that you have repeatedly avoided: if Russian leadership is "not reacting as normal sane thinking humans" or if they are "irrational" and live in an "altered state of reality", how can you be confident that any Western response will produce the desired results in Russian behavior? You can't have it both ways: either Russia is a rational, predictable state and countermeasures can elicit a predictable response, or Russia is an irrational state and countermeasures will produce unpredictable responses.

See again AP you cannot get the wording correct---in the world of international relations when a country uses the term "humiliation" the "presumption" is that the country is a "victim" of something---or has that not changed in the English language usage these days?

Secondly, really really go back and reread the article concerning the use of the word "humiliation".

She lists a number of "humiliation arguments" that Russia claims to be "aggrieved" on.

Then she takes each one of those "aggrieved complaints apart" and behold it is nothing more nothing less that a standard Russian "myth" used to push it's own geopolitical agenda.

Truly go back and reread then answer the authors arguments.

Thirdly--if you really think the sanctions, sinking oil price, and free falling Rubel has not reigned in nor gotten the attention of Putin and his advisory crew then absolutely nothing will.

If as you argue they are "rational thinking human beings"---then one would say totally defying the laws of economics in the face of a fully collapsing economy is intensely damaging to one's career if you are a leader of a "normal thinking" country.

That is another perfect example of the term you really hate to use "altered state of reality". So if they are not "rational thinking beings" THEN what is driving them to avoid being one?---ethno neo imperialism cloaked in the simple term fascism or DO you have an explanation for the eight Russian mercenary groups which are truly Russian fascists fighting in the Ukraine against from Russia alleged to be Ukrainian Nazi's?

Think about it.

[OUTLAW 09]

AP---think about the term "Russian humiliation" for a moment.

Here are two further examples of Russian annexation moves which if one takes the "normal view that human beings act in normal fashions" goes completely against the view of "Russian humiliation" and towards Russian expansionism ie neo imperialism driven by ethnicity.

1. In addition to the annexation of the tiny Yaya Island located in the desolate Laptev Sea------in the Artic and never Russian territory and never "threatened by NATO moving eastwards since 1991"

2. Russia stated yesterday they are signing legal documents with the Georgian enclaves which are basically a half step away from total annexation and under Russian law lay the groundwork for total annexation---AND AP not a single peep from the west

And that is what "Russian humiliation" or simply Russian expansionism at work?

Oh--forgot -it was caused by NATO's eastward movements right?

[OUTLAW 09]

AP---let us go back and revisit your concept of "rational thinking human behavior" for a moment.

I think you might agree with me for a moment that any leader of a country that is "rational thinking" in the face of a "free falling economy" WOULD in fact do everything possible to 'save" his or here country.

BUT what if he or she takes a completely different stance---meaning a military geopolitical victory takes precedence over virtually everything else.

IS that leader "acting rationally or ill rationally"?

As you can see the Russian economy is dangerously starting to repeat the free falling crash of 1998.

#Russia Central bank trying to save the RUB from collapse, sold > $ 1 billion for the last one hour (!)
pic.twitter.com/KoY849ipuB

Oil slump leaves Russia even weaker than decaying Soviet Union | via @Telegraph http://fw.to/6tkC8lK

OR AP does this signal that in fact Russia wants to annex the eastern Ukraine or what Putin called three times in Milan---New Russia.

#BreakingReport Russian military experts are in #Donbas to help "DNR" and "LC" create a "unified military command" and structure

#Ukraine positions came under fire 30times w/in 24hrs. Heavy fire n Debaltseve, #Donetsk, #Mariupol

#Putin signed a law to compensate families of #Russia soldiers, who went missing on maneuvers
Missing in maneuvers? Never happened to #NATO (By the way AP it is European bloggers who are stating and have been stating the MIAs number in the hundreds---and not a word from western media ---ever wonder why?)

SO AP---just what maneuver did the Russian soldier sgo missing on? ---if a Russian maneuver then they were inside Russia and no one can find them in Russia?---come on AP "rational and or ill rational thinking/actions"?

Appears to me Putin is not interested in a solution other than what he dictated in his DUMA speech six months ago.

AND yet what does Putin do---threatens Georgia with further annexations, still sends Russian troops into the Ukraine as confirmed today by two respected UK Moscow journalists on the ground seeing them there and the Russian FM stating today Russia might not accept nor honor the Ukrainian elections from this weekend because the junta threw out the former President "illegally".

#Russia has taken serious measures derail whatever it costs #Ukraine Upper Rada election under false flag / pretext.
pic.twitter.com/hyOdduve2g

Ukrainian intelligence finds large weapons cache in #Novoaidar to disrupt the elections on Sunday
pic.twitter.com/XZVQs6KtMc

Rational thinking leader and or ill rational thinking leader?

AND yet you seem to not want to accept the term "altered state of reality" or some in the interrogation world would call it "cognitive dissonance" if you do not like altered state.

[OUTLAW 09]

AP---"Russian humiliation or no humiliation" some others see Russia as much as a threat as I do and I went through the Cold War here and thought in 1991 it was going to be a thing of the past.

George Soros: Russia poses existential threat to Europe
http://bit.ly/1sSkBEE