Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32

Thread: Military Wants More Civilians to Help in Iraq

  1. #1
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Largo, Florida
    Posts
    3,989

    Default Military Wants More Civilians to Help in Iraq

    7 February NY Times - Military Wants More Civilians to Help in Iraq by Thom Shanker and David Cloud.

    Senior military officers, including members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have told President Bush and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates that the new Iraq strategy could fail unless more civilian agencies step forward quickly to carry out plans for reconstruction and political development.

    The complaints reflect fresh tensions between the Pentagon and the State Department over personnel demands that have fallen most heavily on the military. But they also draw on a deeper reservoir of concerns among officers who have warned that a military buildup alone cannot solve Iraq’s problems, and who now fear that the military will bear a disproportionate burden if Mr. Bush’s strategy falls short.

    Among particular complaints, the officers cited a request from the office of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that military personnel temporarily fill more than one-third of 350 new State Department jobs in Iraq that are to be created under the new strategy...

  2. #2
    Council Member sgmgrumpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ft Leavenworth Kansas
    Posts
    168

    Default

    State Department officials say they are using both incentives and subtler pressures to induce employees to go to Iraq.

    But from the standpoint of personal security, taking those jobs — many of them, by definition, outside the relative safety of the Green Zone — is widely seen as an unattractive career option.

    And people wonder why BW/TC/ are needed...

  3. #3
    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Seattle, Wa
    Posts
    206

    Default Re:

    It sounds familiar. I am currently reading the book, Slowburn, about a contract CIA experiences in setting up a HUMINT program in Vietnam and he discusses how the CIA had to fill the void there with contractors because very few of their permanent personnel wanted to go over there.

  4. #4
    Council Member sgmgrumpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ft Leavenworth Kansas
    Posts
    168

    Default

    I feel your pain.

    Especially when you work with civilians who NEVER served in anything other than the local boy/girl scout troops. Sometimes I just want to pull their lips over their head and smack em. Not sure if your a GS/GG or what, but I would tell you to always have a Plan-B in place and my HH-6 knows that. With those skill sets you should not have any problem finding a place anywhere conus/oconus

  5. #5
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default an unattractive career option

    Evening Jed!
    I think State will be writing you soon !

  6. #6
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Belly of the beast
    Posts
    2,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedburgh View Post
    ...I'm ready to go back. I'm getting bored as hell here in AR. This has been the longest period of my life since I was 18 in which I have not stepped foot OCONUS for operational purposes.

    I spent my entire tour of duty in the Marines CONUS (83-86). Trained like a fiend never even had harsh words with anybody. I was with my FTO as a police officer in my first month in Washington state and got shot at 3 times (an aberration to be sure but a great story still) ......

    I wonder if they'd hired me for some wicked salary to cover my summer down time? I have three months in the summer I sit on my back porch and dodge "honey do's". There probably isn't much need though for an expert at computer networking/security/forensics though. Besides I really don't want to get divorced. Take Marct.... He'll do it. Besides he's Canadian and expendable.

  7. #7
    Council Member marct's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    3,682

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    I wonder if they'd hired me for some wicked salary to cover my summer down time? I have three months in the summer I sit on my back porch and dodge "honey do's". There probably isn't much need though for an expert at computer networking/security/forensics though. Besides I really don't want to get divorced. Take Marct.... He'll do it. Besides he's Canadian and expendable.
    I think the Canadian forces have an opening for you, Selil. If not them, the CRA (our tax man). You'd love Ottawa! It's actually up to -17C today (warm!)! As to working for State, being a true Canadian Nationalist, I'd have to ask for at least 150k, plus expenses (I'd guess another 300k) - hey, it ain't my department of foreign affairs !

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  8. #8
    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Wonderland
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    I'm not being facetious when I say this, but we had a large number of reservists/guardsmen who got divorced/lost their jobs as a result of being mobilized, and one would think they would make ideal candidates for running the "civilian side" of the war in Iraq.

    Unfortunately, the kinds of organizations they could possibly work for are primarily interested in folks who've just graduated college and can have their "mush-brains" formed in that organizations' image. There are also certain "hoops" these organizations set up to jump through in order to get hired that are completely unrealistic and are there primarily to deter people from applying.

    Or maybe someone can tell me a good reason that a reservist SME in CA, Transportation or Intelligence with a Secret or better clearance needs to go through over a year's worth of vetting (accompanied by various stages of being unemployed) to be told NO, you aren't 23, 6'4" (or alternatively, you don't have breasts and a vagina) and have the right "school tie" to work for our organization, so we've let the position go empty.

    I have a solution for the politicos: Start firing people. Start at the top, and don't stop until the correct people are in the jobs on the bottom, actually advancing US interests and not their own.

  9. #9
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default Dropping the Other Shoe: What Do You Mean, We, Paleface?

    Military Must Fill Iraq Civilian Jobs

    Rice, Pentagon at Odds Over Plan

    By Karen DeYoung, Washington Post Staff Writer

    Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told Congress yesterday that more than 40 percent of nearly 300 State Department positions to be added in Iraq as part of President Bush's new strategy will have to be filled by military personnel.

    "Frankly, the agencies of the U.S. government cannot fill that many posts" as quickly as necessary, Rice said at a hearing of the House Foreign Relations Committee yesterday morning. "And so our agreement with the Department of Defense was that for a period of time . . . we would actually use reservists to fill those positions."

    The State Department has asked the Pentagon for 129 people to fill slots in "business development, agribusiness, medicine, city management" and other areas for 10 new provincial reconstruction teams (PRTs), according to David Satterfield, Rice's coordinator for Iraq, who spoke to reporters in an afternoon briefing.
    Agree 120MM with the upheaval approach on getting this right.

    But the upheaval needs to occur as a national imperative drawing on all segments of the national population, not just the active duty military or reservists, or even retirees, or those already in service of one form or another.

    If we are a nation at war, we must be a collective we, not a selective, you.

    That truly has to start at the top.

    Tom

  10. #10
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,665

    Default

    That's why I like this picture from the Government Center in Ramadi. It speaks blunt truth (though expand it to include the other services and the British Army, of course).

  11. #11
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Largo, Florida
    Posts
    3,989

    Default Pentagon to Fill Iraq Reconstruction Jobs Temporarily

    20 February NY Times - Pentagon to Fill Iraq Reconstruction Jobs Temporarily by Thom Shanker.

    The Pentagon and State Department have worked out a deal to send a small number of military personnel and Defense Department civilians to Iraq for several months until Foreign Service officers and State Department contract workers with specialized skills can fill those jobs, senior officials said Monday.

    The internal administration discussions over filling the posts had exposed tensions between the military and civilian agencies over how to share responsibilities in carrying out President Bush’s new strategy for stabilizing and rebuilding Iraq — in particular, how to fill hazardous positions in new provincial reconstruction teams.

    The State Department had asked the Pentagon to come up with military personnel or civilians to fill about one-third of the 350 new State Department jobs in Iraq. While the numbers involved are relatively small, the debate raised larger issues of whether the government was properly organized to carry out a long-term occupation of a country like Iraq.

    The State Department’s written request for military personnel to fill some of the positions temporarily, received in late January, was met with frustration by a number of senior Pentagon officials and military officers...

  12. #12
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Fort Leavenworth, KS
    Posts
    1,510

    Lightbulb

    Well,
    I suspect it will take more then 120 days to get the required personnel, train them and get them in the pipe - it sounds like they don't exist yet. While out team 1SG was on leave in El Paso he said they were recruiting at a job fair for PRT members.
    If you are going to ask the military to do it until OGAs reorganize and build capacity within their own organizations, then fine - first resource us to do it - Big money bonuses (say $50K - tax free) for Reservists with the sought after skill sets. Then add on pro-pay for the capacity you want them to serve in, not the E-6 drill pay they get in their ARNG unit. Then pay them as a GS 11-13. Ask them to do it for 12 months - so you know that you have someone reliable for a year while the OGAs restructure to meet GWOT demands - and when their 12 months tour is up I'd recommend 2 things - first a promotion and another 50K to stay another 12 months, the second is a promotion and X-fer to the FS to become the cadre for State's new branch of expeditionary folks.
    Pay these folks what they are worth, and you just might have another option besides going to the PMCs - which is what I see happening if they try and stick to < 120 day timeline

  13. #13
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Fort Leavenworth, KS
    Posts
    1,510

    Default Growing your own "capacity" from within

    I meant to add I thought of the above post as recruiting / promoting from within. There is already the aparatus for getting the word out - AKO, DKO, etc. ; and for identifying and appealing on a personal level those folks we want - but lets not half step and try to get our talent on the cheap - if you want them to stay - pay them what they are worth, take care of them and their families and you will probably start on the right foot. There are probably allot of retirees and recently seperated folks who would be great, but are considering offers from contract type jobs or the private sector - give them a competitive (a real one) and a good bonus, and they'd probably sign on.
    Last edited by Rob Thornton; 02-20-2007 at 03:28 PM.

  14. #14
    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Wonderland
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    An interesting proposal would be, at the end of the year tour, the Reservist would have automatic seniority for an FS job over any FS personnel with comparable skill set who had not been to Iraq.

    Tell Kenworth Malcom III that he needs to call Buffy and the kids and to pack his "desert" loafers with tassels.

  15. #15
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Rocky Mtn Empire
    Posts
    473

    Default Train wreck?

    There were two other articles over the weekend on this subject: Sen Lugar in the Wash Times advocating new resources and force structure for civilian agencies and Thom Shanker's NYT piece explaining that the military would fill civilian slots until other agencies could pick up the slack. LOL

    Truth of the matter is that if the military is going to pick this up as a primary mission (DoDDir 3000.05?) or whether other government agencies do it, they are going to need major changes across DOTMLPF. Continuing to do the missions ad hoc with general purpose forces is not going to cut it. GPF don't have the expertise and gutting them to do the civilian functions further hollows their organizations.

    IMHO the executive branch is incapable of such radical change on its own, and Congress will probably have to shove it down our throats as they did w/Goldwater-Nichols. My preference is to get off our dead behinds and do it ourselves.

  16. #16
    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SOCAL
    Posts
    2,152

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    An interesting proposal would be, at the end of the year tour, the Reservist would have automatic seniority for an FS job over any FS personnel with comparable skill set who had not been to Iraq.

    Tell Kenworth Malcom III that he needs to call Buffy and the kids and to pack his "desert" loafers with tassels.
    What is the FS going to do with those skill sets once they acquire them and bring 'em into the fold? There may be a reason why those skills aren't resident within the diplomatic corps as it is.

    Is the FS even the target audience for broadening its horizons and skills? I would have thought that USAID would benefit the most from members who aren't afraid to go into the breach and face dangerous situations.

    I honestly don't see the DoS re-structuring to accomodate these skill sets, but rather letting out contracts to do it. Heck, with BW Aviation, they'd even have the rotary-wing assets to move the PRT personnel around and avoid the dangerous LOCs.

  17. #17
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Largo, Florida
    Posts
    3,989

    Default Links...

    Shanker's NY Times article is linked to from post # 12. Here is Senator Richard Lugar's Washington Times commentary - Strengthen Civilian Forces, Too:

    American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are foremost in our thoughts and prayers, but the U.S. military has been quietly fighting the war against terror in scores of other foreign countries. Since September 11, 2001, the number of military personnel and Defense Department activities in non-combat countries has soared.

    Finding, capturing and eliminating terrorists and their support networks are only part of the military's new mission. They have won new authority outside the traditional foreign aid framework to provide military training to foreign countries. Increasingly, the military is taking on roles once reserved for civilian agencies, such as building schools and clinics, drilling wells and conducting public information campaigns.

    A strong military response is necessary for the war against terrorism. When our foreign friends use our training and intelligence to round up global terrorists on their soil, it is clearly a mutual success. But over-reliance on the military also carries risks.

    To succeed, we need diplomats who can shape complex bilateral relationships, repair and build alliances and navigate through a labyrinth of foreign languages and cultures. We need foreign aid experts who know how best to promote democratic practices and economic development. And we need communication professionals to get our message across to foreign audiences.

    These civilians are our best hope for defusing religious extremism and defeating international terrorism long-term...
    More at the link...

  18. #18
    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SOCAL
    Posts
    2,152

    Default From SWJED's post above

    Worse, it could actually hurt our anti-terror efforts by giving too strong a military cast to our programs and policies, fueling suspicion and resentment overseas.
    And to think I was hoping that relaxed grooming standards would be in force...

  19. #19
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Largo, Florida
    Posts
    3,989

    Default SWJ Library

    For reference and background material on tis topic don't forget the Interagency section in the SWJ Reference Library.

  20. #20
    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Wonderland
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    Time to look to the Phillipines again:

    Just finished reading a paper for the 2003 Combat Studies Institute, about how US military force in the Phillipines routinely, and with aplomb, managed to fight a guerilla war and efficiently run an administration. These were Officers and NCOs without a professional development school system, by the way. (Perhaps part of the problem, hmmmm?)

    Is it perhaps time to quit pretending the Active Duty military is incapable of doing more than one thing at a time? For one thing, the "up or out" system of promotion is a big culprit. Officers who make Captain in 36 months are hardly competent in their combat jobs, much less have the seasoning to run a town or a district.

    And I think it's high time we brought back long hair and big, drooping moustaches.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •