Soldiers killed in the Philippines
On 30 SEP 09, two US Service members were killed in the Philippines. This marks the first time in 7 years that a US Service member has been killed there.
What are everyone's thoughts on how this will change how the US operates in the Pacific Theater. In addition, don't forget that the Philippine Senate is attempting to get the VFA re-negotiated, while others are calling to remove US Soldiers from the country all together.
Quiet Pro,Originally Posted by Quiet Pro
Thanks for the heads up on the story ! Please also include the link(s) so the rest of us don't have to go searching around. In this case, searching around turned out to be useful. USPACOM and CNN stories jive as far as their vehicle driving over something - one was an IED and the other a landmine
Please also take a second to introduce yourself here.
If you want to blend in, take the bus
Stan-
Sorry I didn't post links. I was kinda in a hurry to get to class (work). I found a bunch of links. The one think I noticed was that several places noted the guys were SeaBees while others stated they were Special Forces. I haven't been on Jolo for a couple of years, but I am guessing they were SeaBees. I did see a 5 gallon water can explode (along with the aftermath) in Mindanao in 2006. Fortunately, the only casualty was a bad guy. The ASG set up a great ambush that looked like it was going to be initiated by the IED. We assessed that the IED failed to detonate and when the bad guy was checking it he blew himself up. The AFP resupply convoy went through safe and sound.
I am surprised that there have not been more incidents involving US Soldiers considering we have had a permanent presence in the Philippines since 2002.
I am also concerned that the Lawless Elements and ASG are now using RPGs alongside the improvised RPGs they have always made.
QP
Unfortunately we lost two SF NCOs
DoD Identifies Army Casualties
Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:11:00 -0500
IMMEDIATE RELEASE No. 763-09
October 01, 2009
U.S. Department of Defense
Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Public Affairs)
On the Web: http://www.defenselink.mil/Releases/
Media Contact: +1 (703) 697-5131/697-5132
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GovDelivery, Inc. sending on behalf of the U.S. Department of Defense · 408 St. Peter Street Suite 600 · St. Paul, MN 55102 · 1-800-439-1420
DoD Identifies Army Casualties
The Department of Defense announced today the death of two soldiers who were supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. They died Sept. 29 in Jolo Island, the Philippines, from the detonation of an improvised-explosive device. The soldiers were assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group, Fort Lewis, Wash.
Killed were:
Sgt. 1st Class Christopher D. Shaw, 37, of Markham, Ill.
Staff Sgt. Jack M. Martin III, 26, of Bethany, Okla.
The incident is under investigation.
For more information media may contact the U.S. Army Special Operations Command public affairs office at (910) 432-6005; after hours (910) 689-6187, or visit http://news.soc.mil .
David S. Maxwell
"Irregular warfare is far more intellectual than a bayonet charge." T.E. Lawrence
Sir-
Thank you for providing the link. Of course, when a US Service member is killed it is a sad day but this one hits a lot closer to home.
Jeremy
BBC chimes in quietly
The BBC News report adds some context: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/8279852.stm (Incudentally far more coverage on the natural disasters in the region).
davidbfpo
New group BNLA claims responsibility for killing US commandos in Jolo
New group BNLA claims responsibility for killing US commandos in Jolo
Sunday, 04 October 2009 0 0:00
By Al Jacinto, Reporter
ZAMBOANGA CITY: A previously unknown group has claimed responsibility for the roadside bombing that killed two US Special Forces soldiers and a Filipino Marine in Jolo on September 29 and alleged that American troops have been engaged in combat operations in the southern Philippines.
Madarang Sali, who identified himself as deputy supreme commander of the Bangsamoro National Liberation Army (BNLA), said the attack in Indanan town that claimed the lives of Sergeant 1st Class Christopher Shaw of Markham, Illinois, 37; and Staff Sergeant Jack Martin 3rd of Bethany, Oklahoma, 26, was in retaliation for what he said were continued operations by American and Filipino troops against the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) in Sulu province.
Even before the attack, allegations have been raised of US involvement in combat operations in the country, a violation of both the Philippine Constitution and the Visiting Forces Agreement.
The MNLF signed a peace deal with the government in September 1996, but many of its members remain disgruntled with the accord and have accused the government of failing to uplift their living standards.
Shaw and Martin belonged to the 3rd Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group, the US Department of Defense said, contrary to earlier pronouncements by the Philippine military that the two were members of the Seabees, the US Navy’s construction battalion.
Sali said in a statement that MNLF and BNLA fighters planted the improvised explosive device that killed the three soldiers and wounded two more Philippine Marines.
“The BNLA and MNLF members planted the bomb. The US forces are really involved in the operations in Sulu. The landmine used in the attack was that of the BNLA,” Sali said, belying statements by Marine Maj. Gen. Benjamin Dolorfino, chief of the Western Mindanao Command, blaming the Abu Sayyaf for the attack and the subsequent bombing of bridges in Sulu.
Dolorfino earlier said government forces were tracking down 200 Abu Sayyaf fighters led by four senior commanders—Dr. Abu, Albader Parad, Isnilon Hapilon and Yasser Igasan—and two operatives of the Southeast Asian terror network Jemaah Islamiaah, Mauiya and Quayem.
“It is purely the operations of the BNLA and the MNLF, not the Abu Sayyaf or the Jemaah Islamiah,” Sali said.
The BNLA is led by Lt. Gen. Abdulnasser Iskandar, and the MNLF fighters are under the command of
Ustadz Habier Malik, Khaid Ajibun and Tahil Usman, Sali said.
Sali, who also described himself as the spokesman of the Bangsamoro Federated States of Sulu Archipelago, said fighting again broke out on Saturday afternoon in Bunot village in Indanan.
It was also in the town where Marines assaulted what authorities claim was the main Abu Sayyaf camp in
Sulu on Eid’l Fitr, which marks the end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
There has been talk that US Special Forces troops joined this operation, which the military said left 42 combatants dead.
Sali last week said the military offensive actually targeted the MNLF in Sulu. He said Ajibun escaped a military raid last week.
Sali said only 10 MNLF rebels had been killed in the fighting—seven under Malik and three under the command of Ajibun.
He warned of more attacks against the Americans if they continue participating in combat operations in Sulu. The US and the Philippine government maintain that no Americans are engaged in combat despite persistent reports from civilians and civil society groups.
“Fighting again erupted and they will suffer defeat. The Bangsamoro revolutionary forces have declared a jihad [holy war] against the Armed Forces of the Philippines and the Philippine government for the Bangsamoro homeland,” said Sali.
The clashes erupted after the rebels bombed a bridge in Bunot on Friday, the third time in two weeks they have attacked a bridge.
On Thursday, the rebels ambushed Marines in Panamao town, sparking a fierce firefight that left one soldier and three rebels dead. Nine soldiers were also wounded.
http://www.manilatimes.net/index.php...mandos-in-jolo
David S. Maxwell
"Irregular warfare is far more intellectual than a bayonet charge." T.E. Lawrence
It's best to never use the term "permanent presence". Sounds crazy, I know, but stuff gets picked up. Not long ago someone dug out an old interview with a US officer who proposed that foreign support for the ASG and MILF would justify a US combat role under the mutual defense treaty. That made it into a lot of newspapers here, wildly distorted.
A permanent presence is what a lot of critics in Manila are accusing the US of trying to build.
Are RPGs appearing regularly? They've always been quite unusual in Mindanao and surrounding islands, mainly because the Philippine military and police don't use them and illicit sales from the AFP and police are the main source of the black market small arms that end up with the various armed factions. If a substantial quantity of RPGs have been brought in it would indicate a relatively new external source of weaponry.
Dayuhan-
I'll agree... I shouldn't have used "permanent." I know how sensitive people can be about that word. But, I don't think I was wrong. I haven't taken the time to research this, but from 2002 until 2009 I believe that there has always been a US personnel in the RP that I can think of.
RPGs. I can't confirm or deny this. I saw it mentioned in a couple of news articles... and I cannot find them now. I guess I should have done more research on this before I began to let my fingers hit the keyboard. Lesson learned on this also. Although, if the RP was seeing an increase of weapons from external sources it would create another big problem. Not to mention what inferences you could gather from that.
I usually say the US presence has been continuous from 2002-present... whether or not it becomes permanent is something the Filipinos need to decide. I'm personally not convinced that an indefinite presence in the southern Philippines is in the US interest, and I suspect that we may have achieved as much as we're likely to achieve there. The conflict can be (and has been) supressed to a certain extent, but it cannot be resolved without major reforms on the part of the Philippine government, which I don't expect to be forthcoming. I'm not sure we want to stick around indefinitely.
On RPGs, local news is notoriously unreliable on these details. I'd think it unlikely, though not impossible, that they are being widely used. There is some foreign support for the ASG, MILF, and MNLF, though far less than is often claimed. It normally comes as money, though: moving money is a lot easier than moving shipments of weapons, and there's plenty of hardware available here to anyone with the means to pay.
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