Quote Originally Posted by blueblood View Post
Why is that absurd? If someone is deliberately propagating half truths I have two choices, take his/her word for it or ask people on the ground for the actual truth. I chose latter. If someone had written that all cops are KKK would you not have told me that its simply not true. And sorry, trolling people who know this stuff better than me is definitely not my thing.
You actually have a third option, which is to look it up yourself. You could spend a fraction of the time researching these topics, and find the same information and not have to rely on others who have their own biases and agendas (like myself or Jon Stewart). There’s nothing wrong with asking, but check the accuracy of the data first. Discussions have to be based on facts. Otherwise why should anyone waste their time? It's been my experience, nobody engaged the crazy man yelling gibberish in front of the town square.

So yes, while I do not take Colbert or Oliver or Maher's words to be gospels I do like their shows and agree with them on several matters including the video posted above. If you haven't watched the video then don't just disagree for the sake of it.
I am a huge Jon Stewart fan, less so of Oliver, but I take his shtick with a grain of salt. While I haven’t seen the Ferguson video, I have a good in which direction it is headed.

I could be wrong but isn't dealing with the heavily armed bad guys is exactly the job of a well armed (not heavily) police force.
I don’t understand why we are still debating APCs in Doraville. The two incidents you cited are active shooter incidents that were over in a flash. Not every incident plays out the same way. Police agencies have to “hope for the best and plan for the worst.” Just because the Spartans held the pass with 300 people (I know actual numbers are many times that), that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have used more men or that future operations have to be restricted to 300. Or because Col John Ripley blew up the Dong Ha bridge by himself, it doesn’t mean we no longer need sappers or bridge blowing operations need to be restricted to one person. “Past results are not indicative of future performance.”
The police have a toolkit to respond to different types of law enforcement incident. Their tools include rifles, sniper rifles, cameras, armored vehicles, command post vehicles, helicopters, boats, bomb disposal vehicles, etc. They have to use the appropriate tool for the situation at hand.

I don't know about Americans but civilians in general are not particularly fond of APCs parking next to their family cars at signals. And I have seen the footage of North Hollywood shootout plenty of times. Should that be the template for entire police forces across the country. That APC had it been in Detroit or Baltimore would have made much more sense than Doraville.
Enough with the hyperbole. The police are not taking APCs out for joyrides. If these vehicles are on the streets then they are being transported somewhere or they are responding to an incident…and Joe Citizen should feel safe the good guys are on their way to do their duty. Police forces across the US have to be ready to handle heavily armed suspects including hostage takers. 50 years ago the M16 was used only by the military. At a certain point, when criminals started to outgun police, the military and local governments worked out a deal where they received surplus M16 from the DOD free of charge. Now the M16 or AR variant is standard issue to almost all police agencies. As the threat evolves so does the police posture.
You said that you thought it might be appropriate for Baltimore or Detroit to have APCs. Not everyone in the US would agree with you. Some would even argue that the police do not need rifles, or traffic cameras, or license plate readers, etc. Each community has to decide for itself.

If you cannot see the fallacy of your argument that the higher amount of financial resources being spent on a police force which by definition is for policing than a much larger military then perhaps you are right that it is apples and cars.
If you think that a Bell 412 and a F-16, a patrol boat and an armed frigate and a Bearcat and a Leo-2 are perfectly compatible examples of funding requirements then my apologies to you.
Indian Border Security Force while technically still a police force operates more than 100 105mm howitzers, 120mm mortars and MANPADS. If rumours are to be believed then 105mm will be replaced by 155mm units and a small number (few hundred) of Spike AT missiles will be acquired as well. Difference between them and NYPD is that NYPD don't engage Pakistan army in artillery duels on a day to day basis.
Personnel costs... personnel costs... personnel costs

What fallacy? Where is the rule that a US police department (in this case, the largest in the nation) has to have a smaller budget than country X? Why are we comparing police and military, especially when not accounting for things like pay scale which is related to standard of living? Why those countries and not Germany, North Korea, or South Sudan. What does one have to do with the other? One could also argue that policing a first world city is more expensive than guarding a third world nation.

The NYPD budget is not high because they are buying F-16s… like I said earlier it’s mostly personnel costs. The NYPD cops get paid more because the standard of living in the US is better than Greece, Ukraine or India. Starting salary for NYPD is $44k. Starting salary for San Francisco Police is $80k. What’s the starting salary for soldier in any of the other countries? It’s around $120 a year for a Greek conscript. Sergeants make $144 a year. For that price, I can rent a company of Greek soldiers and make them pass in review in front of my place every morning. We can’t pay the NYPD in rupees. The officers and much on NYC has a standard of living that is leaps and bounds better than the standard of living for the Indian Border Force. The salary of an Indian police officer or soldier wouldn’t even cover the NY officer's dry cleaning bill. So what they have howitzers? Like I said the NYPD has a ton of patrol cars, boats, helicopters, and other equipment. But again, most of the cost is personnel…which is determined by crime rate, size, population, population density, officer-to-citizen ratios, etc, and to a degree politics. The agency size is determined by the police chief, police commission, mayor, city council and sometimes citizens through ballot measures for new taxes. Democratic process.
If the police budget for a German city is higher than the Eritrean military, doesn’t it mean the Germans are corrupt or racist or over-policed? Or what if you compare Luxembourg to Sao Paulo, Brazil? NYC spends $2.3billion on waste disposal…that’s 2/3 of the Greek military spending. The budget for the NYFD with ~15k employees is $1.7billion. The budget for the NYPD which has ~50k employees is $4.8billion.
Kind sir, you are missing the forest for the trees. A 74 year old man with no prior LE experience should not be a part of police force least of all to be armed and on a stake out.
I don't want to defend Bates, but you are making some very inaccurate statements, not sure if deliberately. According to the news, he is claiming to have completed the training but some of that training has been called into question. He was also allegedly a police officer at another department at one point in his life. The courts will hear all the evidence and make a decision. Additionally, if there was any corruption on the part of the sheriff or any other public official, I suspect that will be dealt with in due time. Certainly, there will be civil consequences. Just fyi, as far as i know most agencies have a reserve officer/deputy program; there is no age limit, but there is strict requirements on training (which should be documented). Reserves can be assigned from routine paperwork to patrol based on the level of training they receive. Here's a story with a good ending...http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/07/justic...deputy-arrest/

Overall, you seems to be seeing cause-and-effect where it does not exist and drawing conclusions based on unrelated comparisons.
I’m sorry I’m not even going to fully address your most recent comment. Google is your friend…
Look up “California Highway Patrol” or [State Name]” Police/Troopers
Sheriffs are elected.
LE officers are not elected. They apply for the job and go through rigorous testing and screening. Police chiefs are usually appointed by mayor/city council.
Look up “California Commission on Peace Office Standards and Training (CA POST)”. Most states have similar agencies.