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Thread: Ukraine: Russo-Ukr War (June-December 2015)

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  1. #1
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    Russian propaganda outside of having the 4Ds and 2Ds also uses the concept of reverse flip augments.

    Meaning they will argue that say the Ukraine has been the chief violator of the Minsk 2 by shelling them 31 times when they are the verified violators by the OSCE and JCCC or the Ukraine is getting ready for an invasion of eastern Ukraine thus their need to pull their heavy weapons up to the Minsk 2 contact line and on and on.

    OR they launch a major ground attack verified by OSCE and THEN claim it was the Ukrainians who attacked them.

    They simply take what they will be doing and reverse flip it ---arguing it is what the Ukrainians will be doing--you see this well presented in this interview.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0P41SQ20150624

    World | Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:37am EDT
    Related: World, Russia

    Russian former leader of Ukraine rebels warns of 'big war'

    MOSCOW | By Anton Zverev

    A ceasefire is likely to collapse in east Ukraine and Russia could be drawn into a "big war" to cleanse the "sore on its borders", the former leader of the region's pro-Russian separatists said.

    Violence has eased but not halted in east Ukraine under what are known as the Minsk 2 agreements, reached in the Belarussian capital on Feb. 12 after an earlier ceasefire collapsed.

    Alexander Borodai, a Russian citizen and former journalist for nationalist newspapers who emerged last year as prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DNR), said he expects the Ukrainian army to launch a new offensive.

    "To be honest, I expect that the Minsk 2 agreements will not be observed, in the same manner as the Minsk 1 agreements were not," Borodai said in an interview this week in a Moscow restaurant surrounded by former rebel commanders.

    "And at the end of the day the Ukrainian army will launch an offensive. This is a very probable development ... I am not sure that it will end without a big war, as Russia cannot tolerate this sore on its borders forever."

    Borodai stepped aside in favor of a local man as the rebel leader last August but is widely believed to have strong political links in Moscow and an open channel to the Donbass region where the war has unfolded in the last 15 months.

    His leadership of the rebels in the early stages of their rebellion ensured he was often seen on Russian television, and passersby stop him to talk and pat him on the back when they see him on the streets of the Russian capital.

    He also came to worldwide attention as leader of the rebel movement in the area when Malaysian flight MH-17 was shot down by what Western countries believe was a Russian missile fired from rebel territory.

    He personally negotiated with Malaysian authorities to turn over the "black box" flight recorders from the airliner and has always denied that rebel forces were responsible for the crash that killed all 298 people on board the plane.

    The fact that nearly all top figures in the rebel movement at the time were from Russia was awkward for the Kremlin, which maintained that pro-Moscow sentiment was indigenous in eastern Ukraine, and Borodai stepped aside in favor of Alexander Zakharchenko, a former electrician from the area.

    "SANCTIONS WON'T DETER RUSSIA"

    Though fighting is now less intense in east Ukraine, the death toll has continued to rise and is now more than 6,400, with each side accusing the other of planning a new offensive.

    Borodai, 42, said the "half-frozen state" could not continue for long.

    "A big offensive by the Ukrainian troops will mean many casualties among civilians, I am sorry, as well as among the military ... One cannot say Russia doesn't care about Donbass people. Therefore there is a chance Russia won't leave people in the (rebel-led) republics in need," he said.

    Asked whether Russian forces could then intervene, he said: "I admit that Russia may lose patience."

    Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov declined to comment on Borodai's remarks. The West and Kiev say Russia has already sent troops and weapons into east Ukraine to back the separatists but Moscow denies this.

    Andriy Lysenko, a Ukrainian military spokesman, said Kiev is abiding by the Minsk agreements and denied Ukrainian government forces were preparing an offensive.

    Borodai remains in touch with other Muscovites who held prominent roles as rebel leaders in Ukraine, such as Igor Strelkov, who was the main rebel military commander at the time the Malaysian airliner was shot down.

    Strelkov and Borodai, who fought in Moldova's breakaway Transdniestr region in the 1990s, slipped back into Russia several months ago, deeming their job finished as "patriots" in east Ukraine.

    Borodai, who is banned under Western sanctions from entering the European Union and the United States, says tightening the sanctions will not "frighten" Moscow.

    He reiterated that Russia had not sent troops to east Ukraine, adding that if it had "there would have been no trace of the Ukrainian army left close to Donetsk now."
    Strelkov also fought as a GRU officer with Serbian mercenaries in Kosovo and is reported to be wanted for war crimes there.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-24-2015 at 03:35 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Russian propaganda outside of having the 4Ds and 2Ds also uses the concept of reverse flip augments.

    Meaning they will argue that say the Ukraine has been the chief violator of the Minsk 2 by shelling them 31 times when they are the verified violators by the OSCE and JCCC or the Ukraine is getting ready for an invasion of eastern Ukraine thus their need to pull their heavy weapons up to the Minsk 2 contact line and on and on.

    OR they launch a major ground attack verified by OSCE and THEN claim it was the Ukrainians who attacked them.

    They simply take what they will be doing and reverse flip it ---arguing it is what the Ukrainians will be doing--you see this well presented in this interview.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0P41SQ20150624

    World | Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:37am EDT
    Related: World, Russia

    Russian former leader of Ukraine rebels warns of 'big war'

    MOSCOW | By Anton Zverev

    Strelkov also fought as a GRU officer with Serbian mercenaries in Kosovo and is reported to be wanted for war crimes there.
    What is interesting about this small piece of propaganda is the term "half frozen"--in the West media it is often talked about--that eastern Ukraine will sink into a typical Russian "frozen conflict" such as we see in Moldaiva and Georgia.

    What has happen though is that Russia has been effectively "frozen" in their own actions in the eastern Ukraine---meaning they have vastly overreached their timeline and war costs are eating them up and even their own elite Spetsnaz are not able to get a decisive ground breakthrough on the contact line and the Ukrainian Army is showing a surprising resilence that Russia has vastly underestimated.

    The entire eastern Ukraine Russian adventure is costing them a now estimated 40-50M USD per day and that is up from initially 35M per day or say at 40M USD per day 1.2B USD per month.

    Russia is now totally responsible for financially supporting the Donbass, feeding the Donbass, providing fuel, electricity and gas and must provide jobs and social services--that is why they keep complaining that the Ukraine should be doing it under Minsk 2.

    This is not what they envisioned when they started their anti Ukraine UW campaign.

    At some point they will be faced with a critical decision --go for the entire Ukraine or pull out--keeping the Donbass in limbo will kill them economically.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-24-2015 at 03:47 PM.

  3. #3
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    A Quick & Easy guide to reporting #Russia's Troll army. Time 4 #Ukraine to fight back @EuromaidanPress pic.twitter.com/LftT3pYdfo

    Russia #propaganda #trolls' tactics uncovered by #ylekioski (ENG) List of troll-infested int'l forums included. http://kioski.yle.fi/omat/troll-piece-2-english

    Says Kremlin shill GWP who has Russian GRU as armed escort while illegally filming 'child-based' agitprop in #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/F6M6onahMV

    Russian troops of the 7th military base are overdoing it masquerading as “DPR/LPR” mili http://24today.net/open/453340 pic.twitter.com/7kqqfiy0kh

  4. #4
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    Have grown to "love" the Russian propaganda 4Ds--dismiss, distract, distort, dismay designed to created the 2Ds--distrust and doubt.

    The Russian FM Lavrov is great at doing this----

    Classic Lavrov on Minsk process: "there are powers who would like to destroy this process, I won't name them. But such forces exist."

    Notice he simply states the sentence and yet he names absolutely no one but it is a subtle unspoken hint ---the Ukraine.

  5. #5
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    Putin is sick of Russian students & academics leaving for the West, & now he's putting everyone on notice. "Stahp." https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/06/24...tions-on-alert

    Drunk Russian dude beats friend to death for traveling abroad. Proudly tells cops he caught "an American spy." http://svpressa.ru/accidents/news/125681/

    BTW--the country with the highest requests for visa's for Russians to travel to--of all places the EU.

    So much for the near enemy?????

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