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Thread: Ukraine: Russo-Ukr War (June-December 2015)

  1. #941
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    Today (as of 18:30) militants attacked positions of Ukrainian troops 40 times - ATO press centerhttps://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...31&__tn__=%2As
    AND the number just keeps climbing.

    19:46 #Makeevka Gvardeyka @Serzzze [fb] Distant booms

    Donetsk@Serzzze [fb]
    19:06 And Vetka can hear
    19:35 Since 18:45 ongoing single massive volleys in Putilovka, SA sometimes

    19:50 #Izvaryne @MedicNiko 12 Ural trucks, half of them w/#26 on doors, moved tow/Izvaryne fr/#Krasnodon

    19:00 #Maryinka @hyeva_maryinka [vk] Again booms in horse stables direction

    19:23 #Avdeevka @rechnikato In the old [part of town] there are incoming

    19:16 #Donetsk @Serzzze [fb] Massive explosions in Putilovka for 20 min already

    18:59 #Donetsk @relictDon It already rumbles in the northwest

    Minsk breakthrough: smaller weapons to be withdrawn from Donbas
    http://www.unian.info/politics/11033...om-donbas.html … pic.twitter.com/qFcC5yoE7I

    What a major nothingness--currently the damage is being done by 122mm artillery, 120mm mortars, 152mm SPGs and lots of GRADS WHICH were suppose to have been already withdrawn or so says Russia and her mercenaries but if withdrawn just where is all the artillery and nGRAD fire coming from????.

    By removing 100mm and below denies the UA from returning fire as that is what they have been largely using since they return artillery fire only when seriously threatened.
    ANOTHER win for Putin as this was not in the Minsk 2 Agreement--slowly but steadily Putin is hallowing out the original Minsk 2 document and the West says absolutely nothing.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-21-2015 at 06:19 PM.

  2. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    OSCE: Russian GRU brings own people to Ukraine for 'certain tasks'

    http://www.unian.info/war/1103333-os...ain-tasks.html … pic.twitter.com/Kil9iOHqcD

    Just what the heck is OSCE stating....???????? AND Russia still states there are no Russian troops in the eastern Ukraine--since when is the GRU not part of the Russian military???

    http://www.unian.info/war/1103333-os...ain-tasks.html

    OSCE: Russian GRU brings own people to Ukraine for 'certain tasks'

    21.07.2015 | 19:55

    Deputy Chief Monitor of the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine Alexander Hug claims he has met in person with representatives of Russia's Main Intelligence Directorate, or GRU, who have arrived in Donbas to perform "certain tasks," according to Ukrainian news service tsn.ua.

    Does Hug fully realize that the Russian Spetsnaz have currently two Brigades in the Ukraine and are constantly leading ground attacks and Spetsnaz does in fact work directly for the GRU????

    MAYBE those they brought in for "special tasks" are in fact Spetsnaz.

    Hate to say this but just how stupid can OSCE be.

    Vostok BN is headed by the former Ukrainian SBU Alpha unit commander and is a major mercenary fighting unit--he is acting as if this is new information but in fact social media has been tracking Vostok from the very beginning--this commander actually just after the shot down of MH17 openly condemned the mercenaries for their shot down and then back tracked when he saw which way the wind was blowing out of Moscow.
    Some of those GRU "special task guys" that the OSCE talked about that the GRU openly admitted to bringing into the Ukraine.

    That is what happens when the SMM is strictly civilian--they tend to know nothing about Russian weapon systems nor about the Russian army and it's various units.

    Selfies of 10th Special Purpose Brigade of the #Russia|n GRU Geolocated in #Luhansk https://en.informnapalm.org/selfies-...ed-in-luhansk/ … pic.twitter.com/uMbVVy03ii #Ukraine
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-21-2015 at 06:37 PM.

  3. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Today (as of 18:30) militants attacked positions of Ukrainian troops 40 times - ATO press centerhttps://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...31&__tn__=%2As
    AND the number just keeps climbing.

    19:46 #Makeevka Gvardeyka @Serzzze [fb] Distant booms

    Donetsk@Serzzze [fb]
    19:06 And Vetka can hear
    19:35 Since 18:45 ongoing single massive volleys in Putilovka, SA sometimes

    19:50 #Izvaryne @MedicNiko 12 Ural trucks, half of them w/#26 on doors, moved tow/Izvaryne fr/#Krasnodon

    19:00 #Maryinka @hyeva_maryinka [vk] Again booms in horse stables direction

    19:23 #Avdeevka @rechnikato In the old [part of town] there are incoming

    19:16 #Donetsk @Serzzze [fb] Massive explosions in Putilovka for 20 min already

    18:59 #Donetsk @relictDon It already rumbles in the northwest

    Minsk breakthrough: smaller weapons to be withdrawn from Donbas
    http://www.unian.info/politics/11033...om-donbas.html … pic.twitter.com/qFcC5yoE7I

    What a major nothingness--currently the damage is being done by 122mm artillery, 120mm mortars, 152mm SPGs and lots of GRADS WHICH were suppose to have been already withdrawn or so says Russia and her mercenaries but if withdrawn just where is all the artillery and nGRAD fire coming from????.

    By removing 100mm and below denies the UA from returning fire as that is what they have been largely using since they return artillery fire only when seriously threatened.
    ANOTHER win for Putin as this was not in the Minsk 2 Agreement--slowly but steadily Putin is hallowing out the original Minsk 2 document and the West says absolutely nothing.
    Usual evening in Donetsk. Booms, artillery, both directions. So far Peski-Spartak area. https://twitter.com/LeonidSysenko/st...53342569086976

    More Russian artillery strikes on critical infrastructure.

    Results of militant artillery attack on Vuhlehirsk thermal power plant this morning
    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...28&__tn__=%2As … pic.twitter.com/dfnu3dVzdO

  4. #944
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    Default to miraculous revival of rebel tanks

    Kharkiv factory provides rehabilitated tanks to Ukrainian army

    http://uatoday.tv/politics/kharkiv-f...my-460078.html

    Manager of the Kharkiv armour plant, Viktor Kozonak, says the work his mechanics perform can be a big challenge, with some of the military hardware not seeing any use for over 30 years.

    "The hardware that is brought to us for repair - some of them have been standing without any movement for more than 30 years. Therefore, for many of the tanks we have to change all rubber parts, in many tanks we have to change all electrical wiring and all electrical mechanisms. Moreover, we have to change all the motors, because over time they have gone completely out of order,"
    -----------

    Maybe some "rebel" tanks are not from local depot.
    OSCE must verify.

  5. #945
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    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...#ixzz3gYKw8ix6

    Ukraine Can’t Survive On Its Own

    By TOM DASCHLE
    July 20, 2015

    Something extraordinary is happening in Ukraine. I just returned from a three-day trip there in my capacity as vice chair of the National Democratic Institute — an organization created by Congress to help developing countries build stronger democratic institutions — and I was truly inspired by the spirit I witnessed in a people who have been through so much turmoil in the past two years.

    Since declaring its independence from the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine has struggled mightily with major challenges both in and outside the country. While corruption, poor political leadership and economic fragility significantly hampered domestic progress, Russian military intervention has caused enormous upheaval and even the loss of Crimea, long part of Ukraine, just last year.

    Russia continues to provide significant military and economic assistance to pro-Russian separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk provinces along the eastern Ukrainian border. Yet thus far, the West has failed to meaningfully reciprocate. Ukrainian pleas to the European Union and the United States for significant military and economic assistance have largely been ignored. However, the poorly funded and outmanned Ukrainian military forces have surprised the international community with their success and demonstrated impressive resolve in containing Russian military efforts.

    I met determined, courageous reformers in government, parliament and civil society who are starting to lay the foundations of a modern democracy. This would be difficult enough even if there were no conflict in the East and the economy was performing well. The regime of former President Viktor Yanukovych, which was toppled by a popular revolution in 2014, left a pitiful legacy. The people of Ukraine were left with hollowed-out institutions, a dysfunctional military and a society demoralized and impoverished by systemic corruption.

    Yet almost miraculously, the Ukrainian people are coming together to rebuild their country from scratch. The latest research, sponsored by NDI, confirms what I heard from young leaders like Hanna Hopko, the new chair of the Foreign Relations Committee; Sergii Leshchenko, a member of the Petro Poroshenko Bloc; and Andriy Sadovyi, the mayor of Lviv. They emphasized that the same expectations and demands that underpinned the “Revolution of Dignity” in 2014 remain unifying demands in Ukraine today.

    Overwhelmingly, they told me, the Ukrainian people are not willing to give up their right to determine their own future. Every leader with whom I spoke emphasized that they — and a clear majority of the country’s people — want to join the European Union. The meetings also confirm the results of NDI’s research about Russia: These young parliamentarians forcefully articulated what nearly 80 percent of their citizens regard as Russia’s highly negative influence on the country. Virtually all of the leaders in civil society with whom I met are impatient to see political parties respond to the needs of society as a whole and challenge — rather than protect — the interests of a small clique of oligarchs.

    In large measure because of this new generation of leaders, elected just last October, entirely new parties have emerged. Against the odds, some important pieces of legislation have already been passed, including police and energy policy reform. Much more is now under consideration, although the key will be not only enactment but implementation.

    So far, the five-party ruling coalition has largely managed to work together in the national interest — even though this dynamic has required tough decisions. The successes achieved to date would not have been possible without the emergence of a more energized and vigilant civil society. During my visit, I learned that, somewhat counterintuitively, the pressure Russia continues to put on the country has motivated the Ukrainian people to work together for change. They know there is no going back. There is little nostalgia for the Yanukovych era, even among those who voted for the opposition last year.

    Volodymyr Groysman, the newly elected speaker, reminded me that the Ukrainian people are paying a huge price for daring to pursue the future they want. More than 170 soldiers have been killed, and more than 900 wounded, just since the so-called cease-fire was signed in February. Many people, he explained, are worse off economically than they were a year ago. Around 1.3 million have been internally displaced, more than 20 times the number in Georgia following Russia’s invasion in 2008.

    In almost every conversation, Ukrainians argued that there are few places in the world where American assistance is more needed or more deserved and would have more impact. The United States provided more than a billion dollars to help Georgians during their time of need — money that had a great effect. Thus far, U.S. assistance to Ukraine has been a mere fraction of that.

    What is needed is a comprehensive set of initiatives that would help Ukrainians address the wide range of humanitarian, economic, security and political challenges that they face.

    There are five specific actions the United States could take that might actually mean the difference between success and failure at this critical time.

    First, I believe President Barack Obama should visit Ukraine. While vitally important symbolically, as Ukrainians fight for and work at the construction of their democratic republic, it would be enormously catalytic in encouraging and strengthening the reform leadership both in government and civil society.

    Second, the men and women in the Ukrainian military must be empowered to defend themselves. They have performed valiantly. Much like our own revolutionary forces two centuries ago, they continue to courageously defend their land and people against a determined foe in spite of being outnumbered and extremely underfunded. The United States simply cannot ignore their plea for help. Earlier this year, the Obama administration agreed to provide $75 million in nonlethal aid to Ukraine’s military in addition to several hundred Humvees. There have been calls by such reputable organizations as The Atlantic Council and the Brookings Institution to provide as much as $3 billion in lethal and nonlethal military assistance in order to give Ukraine “modern” defensive weapons to counter Russia’s “modern” offensive weapons.


    Third, special emphasis should be placed on enabling Ukraine’s citizens to advocate effectively for the changes they want. Both the U.S. government and nongovernmental organizations can be enormously helpful in building political parties and governmental institutions capable of responding to those demands. Repeatedly, the leaders were very clear on one point. Because they have had such little experience with building a democratic republic, they need to be given guidance and far more assistance if they are going to do it right. That includes making their political and legislative process more transparent, creating a culture for respect for the rule of law, allowing more citizen participation and creating a legislative and executive infrastructure that provides for meaningful accountability.

    Fourth, humanitarian assistance and economic support, including initiatives to augment the growth of small business and private enterprise, is essential. Ukraine has enormous economic potential. But reaching its goals for political and government reform is inextricably linked to developing that potential. It is heartening that Congress is now considering substantial aid to Ukraine for next year. The key will be to ensure that the assistance for military, democratic, humanitarian and economic purposes is dispersed quickly.

    Finally, I was taken by something that I heard frequently. It is the victims — not the beneficiaries — of corruption who initiated Ukraine’s movement toward democracy and justice. For this reason, they told me, U.S. assistance should be conditional on progress toward a prescribed set of democratic goals, including the elimination of corruption, constitutional and political reforms and significant decentralization of governmental institutions.

    There may be no place on the globe where the stakes for democracy and freedom are higher or more realizable than Ukraine. The United States shouldn’t let the opportunity pass.

    Tom Daschle is founder and CEO of The Daschle Group and a former U.S. Senate majority leader.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-21-2015 at 06:49 PM.

  6. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...#ixzz3gYKw8ix6

    Ukraine Can’t Survive On Its Own

    By TOM DASCHLE
    July 20, 2015
    For those that did not pay attention to the Maidan.

    pic.twitter.com/rx0cSxtVTW

  7. #947
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    More accusations of poor quality OSCE reporting and analysis.

    Sometimes, I'm simply stunned about the #OSCE investigation results ... pic.twitter.com/s2TNaCF2MR

  8. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dishonesty View Post
    Kharkiv factory provides rehabilitated tanks to Ukrainian army

    http://uatoday.tv/politics/kharkiv-f...my-460078.html

    Manager of the Kharkiv armour plant, Viktor Kozonak, says the work his mechanics perform can be a big challenge, with some of the military hardware not seeing any use for over 30 years.

    "The hardware that is brought to us for repair - some of them have been standing without any movement for more than 30 years. Therefore, for many of the tanks we have to change all rubber parts, in many tanks we have to change all electrical wiring and all electrical mechanisms. Moreover, we have to change all the motors, because over time they have gone completely out of order,"
    -----------

    Maybe some "rebel" tanks are not from local depot.
    OSCE must verify.
    BTW a good catch--what is interesting is that the entire Ukraine defense industries have rehabed over 4000 pieces of equipment and have funneled it to the troops in the forward areas.

    THEN more interesting is that in August 2014 before the Russians actually invaded to protect their mercenaries a 6K man hallowed out Ukrainian Army had virtually defeated the mercenaries on their own.

    Now that army has grown to over 65K--- is combat proven and has boxed in a 34K mercenary force and 12K Russians in a 200 mile long front line with little territory being lost--actually none. That is not quite what Putin has envisioned as being a "frozen" conflict.

    AND have largely pulled back their heavy weapons and are defending their lines largely with ATMs, AGLs, RPGs and 84mm mortars AND aggressive recon, sniper and SF teams--using only heavy artillery when threatened with being overrun or the mercenary artillery is massive.

    Estimates of 150 tons of munitions a day are being fired at them--thus the recent three Russian "aid convoys" ---excuse me munition resupplies.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-21-2015 at 07:13 PM.

  9. #949
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    This writer fully understands "weaponization of information"--well worth reading IMHO the leading expert on Russian "weaponization of information" and how to counter it.

    We’re all Putin’s ‘useful idiots’
    Cold War comparisons play right into the Russian president's hands.


    By Peter Pomerantsev
    21/7/15, 5:30 AM CET

    LONDON — Watching Russian TV recently is a disturbing business. As Stephen Ennis at BBC Monitoring has painstakingly recorded, Russian media has developed a habit of delivering death threats to opposition members, using anti-Semitic insinuations against its opponents, screaming about the threat of the “homosexual sodomite tsunami,” and recommending burning the hearts of homosexuals while indulging in “techniques of psychological conditioning designed to excite extreme emotions of aggression and hatred in the viewer.”

    It has helped “hallucinate a war into reality in Ukraine” (the Economist’s phrase) with fabricated scare stories about Ukrainian militia crucifying ethnic Russian children, “fascist Juntas” taking power in Kiev and U.S. plots to engineer ethnic cleansing in Donbas, while launching targeted, untrue and vicious attacks on Western academics in Russia as “fifth columnists” (I could go on — but you get the idea).

    Zhanna Nemtsova, the daughter of murdered politician Boris Nemtsov, blames Kremlin TV for the death of her father: “Russian propaganda kills,” writes Nemtsova, “it kills reason and common sense but it also kills human beings.”

    But here’s the odd thing. In between the frothing rants against the evil West, Kremlin television is full of ads for IKEA, Procter and Gamble and Mercedes, while the rest of the TV schedule is rammed with Russian versions of Western reality shows licensed from British and American production companies. Kremlin TV’s anti-Western hate-speech is financially propped up by Western advertising, and relies on the success of TV formats bought from Western producers.

    “If you really want to hurt Russian propaganda consider putting moral pressure on Western advertisers and production companies to stop cooperating with the Kremlin’s hate-channels,” advises USC Annenberg scholar Vasily Gatov.

    Gatov was once head of development at the Russian version of Associated Press, RIA Novosti, and understands the system’s weaknesses and the mindset of the people who run it.


    “Currently the EU has decided to concentrate on myth busting Kremlin disinformation,” Gatov says. “That means you’re always stuck inside the narratives the Kremlin sets, and is just the sort of game the Kremlin wants to play. What the people who run the Kremlin’s propaganda really worry about is their financial model — not bull#### PR battles. At the end of the day the West can’t say it fears Russian propaganda as a security threat — and then welcome Russian channel heads as clients of honor at TV fairs in Cannes.”

    Rather than be shut off behind a Berlin Wall in some parallel socio-economic universe, this Russia is deeply integrated with the global financial system. The elite moves its money, both legal but often illicit, through the off-shore havens of the British Virgin Islands and Jersey and on to London and Geneva.

    Vladimir Putin might like to posture about how Russia can divorce its finances from the West — but the reality is the amount of money flowing out of Russia is only increasing; the Kremlin is throwing all its efforts into stopping financial sanctions which cut Moscow off from global markets; there is a whole sub-culture of Western lawyers helping sanctioned Russian “patriots” in Putin’s entourage move their money from Mother Russia to Luxemburg or London.

    “If you really want to hurt Russian propaganda consider putting moral pressure on Western advertisers and production companies” — Vasily Gatov


    “Want to change something?” asks Gatov. “Then start enforcing your own laws on money laundering. Expand the list of sanctioned Putin cronies — while simultaneously offering easier visas, employment and education opportunities in the West for those many Russians who are not part of the kleptocracy but want to be part of the greater world.”

    Gatov’s points underline how very 21st century the questions posed by the Putin regime are. Sometimes one hears the current troubles described as a “Cold War,” with a need for “Detente,” “Finlandization,” “Containment” or other labels plucked from the heyday of 20th century superpower confrontation. Some of these terms might be perfectly useful in their own right, but taken together they risk creating a narrative that clouds the real issues and only helps Putin.

    The Kremlin isn’t some alien model on a messianic mission — it’s a very naughty 21st century regime surfing the worst trends of the West: media and market manipulations. But that doesn’t make the challenge it poses any less troubling — in fact, it makes it more so. If the Kremlin were the only actor out there mutating journalism into a weapon and using the global financial system as a huge money laundering machine then it would be easy to fend off: media and markets would be morally robust enough to handle one bad player. Sadly they’re not. It’s precisely because the Kremlin is going with the grain of all that is worst in the system that one should be alarmed.


    This is not to say that the Putin problem could be magic-ed away with a few court cases and ethical sanctions campaigns. Thousands have died in Ukraine, in battles which sometimes resemble something out of World War I. There are real security threats, both hard and soft, to contend with in Russia’s near and not so near abroad (the Kremlin can be a little vague on where exactly its “zone of privileged interest” ends), which will take unity and diplomatic wiles.

    But even the war the Kremlin is waging has a very 21st century flavor.

    The Kremlin’s mix of covert military operations, disinformation onslaught and diplomatic denial has been nicknamed “hybrid war,” “special war” and “full-spectrum conflict.” Much of it is nothing new. A brief flick through Anne Applebaum’s “Iron Curtain” shows how many elements of Putin’s annexation of Crimea repeat the take-over of Eastern European states after World War II: mysterious forces hijack government buildings to defend the population from a dreamt up “fascist” threat; quickly followed by a pop-up, pre-determined, pro-Moscow referendum before the Kremlin takes complete control.

    What has changed, in the perceptive phrasing of NYU Professor of Global Affairs Mark Galeotti, “is the world in which hybrid war happens.” In the 21st century the Kremlin can use all the levers of globally integrated economics: “The soldiers of this war are spies and criminals,” writes Galeotti, “cynical lobbyists and gullible commentators, businesses desperate to make a profit from Russia.”

    Seen from this point of view, much of what has been termed “hybrid war” could be regarded as the dark flip side of globalization: Interconnectedness doesn’t instantly mean world harmony, it also means we can all mess with each other to an unprecedentedly insidious extent.

    Whatever this is, it isn’t the Cold War — but by framing the issues in the old terms one ends up playing right into the Kremlin hands. Putin’s aim is to define today’s Russia as some sort of equal-sized “Other” to the West, as Communism was to Democracy, thus augmenting the optics of his own importance and making his regime seem greater than it is.

    Domestically much of Putin’s rule rests on convincing Russians he is the biggest show in town, and the bigger he can look on the global stage the longer he can keep the domestic conversation away from social and economic realities. In foreign affairs his aim is to make Russia look like a gigantic superpower others have to bend their knee to. Thus his need to generate the posters and postures of global confrontation complete with demands for a new Yalta, Rejkjavik or, God-forbid, Cuban Missile Crisis. When top U.S. generals say they believe Russia is the biggest existential threat to the U.S., they risk doing Putin’s propaganda work for him.

    But of course it’s not only Putin who enjoys this story.

    Hawkish Western politicians get the chance to channel the “Ich bin ein Berliner”-era Kennedy or the early Reagan and make big speeches about being tough on Moscow. Dovish ones can cast themselves as reincarnations of a later Reagan or Brandt, whose insight stands between us and the next world war. Intellectuals pose as new George Kennans or George Bernard Shaws. Media get an easy story about a familiar bad guy — exactly the front page role the Kremlin is trying to fill. Generals get (at the very least) a sound-bite.

    There’s something to gain for everyone by playing bit parts in Putin’s Cold War Soap Opera.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-21-2015 at 07:30 PM.

  10. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Today (as of 18:30) militants attacked positions of Ukrainian troops 40 times - ATO press centerhttps://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...31&__tn__=%2As
    AND the number just keeps climbing.

    19:46 #Makeevka Gvardeyka @Serzzze [fb] Distant booms

    Donetsk@Serzzze [fb]
    19:06 And Vetka can hear
    19:35 Since 18:45 ongoing single massive volleys in Putilovka, SA sometimes

    19:50 #Izvaryne @MedicNiko 12 Ural trucks, half of them w/#26 on doors, moved tow/Izvaryne fr/#Krasnodon

    19:00 #Maryinka @hyeva_maryinka [vk] Again booms in horse stables direction

    19:23 #Avdeevka @rechnikato In the old [part of town] there are incoming

    19:16 #Donetsk @Serzzze [fb] Massive explosions in Putilovka for 20 min already

    18:59 #Donetsk @relictDon It already rumbles in the northwest

    Minsk breakthrough: smaller weapons to be withdrawn from Donbas
    http://www.unian.info/politics/11033...om-donbas.html … pic.twitter.com/qFcC5yoE7I

    What a major nothingness--currently the damage is being done by 122mm artillery, 120mm mortars, 152mm SPGs and lots of GRADS WHICH were suppose to have been already withdrawn or so says Russia and her mercenaries but if withdrawn just where is all the artillery and GRAD fire coming from????

    By removing 100mm and below denies the UA from returning fire as that is what they have been largely using since they return artillery fire only when seriously threatened.
    ANOTHER win for Putin as this was not in the Minsk 2 Agreement--slowly but steadily Putin is hallowing out the original Minsk 2 document and the West says absolutely nothing.
    Interesting-----

    OSCE: Agreement on the withdraw of weapons under 100 mm is not signed http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/21-july...weapons-to-100 … via @SputnikATO

    THEN notice which way mass media takes the news----

    Ukraine, rebels reach preliminary agreement to extend pull-back of weapons in east Ukraine: http://reut.rs/1GzBLKs pic.twitter.com/wB7GrgWkXu
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-21-2015 at 07:40 PM.

  11. #951
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    The Russian regime's major miscalculation > Ukrainians not willing to give up Donbas for peace. http://khpg.org/index.php?id=1437504890

    Ukrainians not willing to give up Donbas for peace

    21.07.15

    According to a recent survey, only 15.3% of Ukrainians would be willing to hand Donbas over to Russia in exchange for peace. The figure willing to give up Crimea was higher – 33%, but still much lower than the 50.6% against.

    The Kyiv International Institute of Sociology [KIIS] survey examined the socio-political situation in the country in July 2015, devoting most attention to people’s assessment of Ukraine’s leaders and political party preferences a few months before local elections are due. It also sought Ukrainians’ views as to potential ways of resolving the conflict in eastern Ukraine. The survey was carried out throughout the country except in Crimea and in those areas of Donbas under Kremlin-backed militant control.

    In the country as a whole 56.8% of the respondents supported continuation of the peace process and peaceful regulation on the basis of the Minsk Accords. The geographical divide here is telling. There were less supporters of this peaceful process in the West and Centre [49.0% and 49.9%, respectively] and not so dramatically many in the East . In the South support reached 79.5% and in Donbas itself – 74.8%.

    28.3% were in favour of the Ukrainian army liberating the occupied area of Donbas by force. This overall figure is, however, based on an average between greater support in the West and Centre, and less elsewhere. Only 4.1% of people in Donbas were in favour.

    Respondents were asked to give a response to the statement that “any agreement with the Russian Federation’s current leadership is deception and will still not be carried out. There was agreement with this from an absolute majority in the country as a whole (35.1% totally agreed, and 21.2% probably agreed). The figure for Donbas was, however, fairly markedly different, with only 22.8% agreeing, and 16.3% disagreeing (with another 6.5% probably disagreeing).

    Ukrainians were asked whether they were prepared to make other changes or renounce other things for the sake of peace. Only 5.8% said that they would be willing to hand Russia all of Eastern and Southern Ukraine as divided by the Dnipro River. 33.9% would be prepared to renounce integration with the EU, against 48.8% who would not (the analogous figures for giving up membership of NATO: 40.7 would agree, vs. 41.0% would not).

    24.7% would accept an amnesty for separatists (the term used); 55.4% would not find that acceptable.

    47.7% said that for the sake of peace they would be prepared to accept Russian as a second State language, against 38.0% who considered this unacceptable.

    KIIS points out that the survey was carried out before the events on July 14 in Mukacheve and before the new amendments to the Constitution were presented and sent to the Constitutional Court for assessment. Both these things might well have had impact on people’s response, KIIS stresses.

    The results certainly indicate that a majority are against the changes most pushed by Russia. 26.4% said that they would be prepared to grant the so-called ‘Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics’ autonomy; 56.1% said that this was not admissible. 18.7% were prepared to recognize these same ‘republics’’ independence, with 63.8% - unwilling. 21% said that they would accept the federalization of all of Ukraine, against 59.!% who would not.

    There were geographical differences, with the most marked being for residences of Donbas (the parts under Ukrainian control). Although there was much greater willingness to lose Crimea (58.5% would be willing to accept this for the sake of peace), only 13% said that they would be willing to hand Donbas over to Russia, against 39.0% who would not. 65% would be willing to renounce integration with the EU, 55% - an amnesty to the separatists and 77.2% would be willing to make Russian a second State language.

    Such results must, obviously, be compared to those of surveys ascertaining the attitude in the country to the above issues. Surveys have always found that there is majority support for retaining Ukrainian as the only State language.

    Two surveys reported here, which were also carried out by KIIS in cooperation with the Democratic Initiatives Foundation found very little support for independence of the ‘republics’ or for joining Russia. In the survey of people in two Luhansk oblast cities, and earlier in the Donetsk oblast cities of Sloviansk and Kramatorsk, both liberated from the militants in July 2014, a majority wanted the Ukrainian military to remain in their cities. A majority considered Russia to be a party to the military conflict.

  12. #952
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    Militants shelled Vuhlehirsk TPP from 152-mm artillery. PHOTOS http://en.censor.net.ua/n344786

    Terrorists shelled ATO forces' positions 60 times over last day. Avdiivka and its coke plant sprayed from tank and artillery, - HQ

    "The Russian terrorists shelled residential neighborhoods of Zaitseve village near Horlivka from the tank during half an hour from 7 a.m. 152-mm and 122-mm artillery, 120-mm mortars and tanks have been employed against the defenders of Ukraine since the beginning of the day," the statement reads.

    "For example, the shelling of positions of the brave defenders of Ukraine takes place around the clock near the Donetsk airport: our positions near the villages of Rozsadky, Maiorsk, Roty, Krasnyi Pakhar, Zaitseve, Lozove, and Kurdiumivka came under 152-mm artillery strike today, 120-mm mortars were used near the villages of Sanzharivka and Avdiivka, a tank committed attacks in the vicinity of Bohdanivka, Mykolaivka, and Oprosne," the ATO HQ added.

    "In addition, the Russian invaders were inviting the Ukrainian soldiers to open fire in return using small arms, RPGs and heavy machine guns almost along the entire demarcation line. The Ukrainian military are firmly holding their defensive positions despite everything and are ready for any scenario," the ATO HQ summed up.

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    Two Russian Spetsnaz officers captured in the Ukraine NOW formally discharged by the Rusian MOD before they were captured—just usual citizens as claimed by Russian MOD—so much being “special” in the GRU.

    Nothing like a great coverup. Russian MoD openly and clearly abandons its soldiers. Russian troops may not like this.

    They were servicemen, but fired before "trip". Just Putin's tourists

    Russian MoD: Alexandrov and Yerofeev traveled to Ukraine as usual citizens, not soldiers pic.twitter.com/VxaBwMAjLK http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/21-july...led-to-ukraine

    BUT as usual citizens they sure knew the complete break down of all members of their Spetsnaz company by name, rank and duty position—is that what usual citizens know???

  14. #954
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    Russian Kredo-M1 portable radar http://warfare.be/db/lang/rus/catid/251/linkid/2347/https://vk.com/wall23430249_2919in #Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kX6...youtu.be&t=493 … pic.twitter.com/9FepZvjydp

    British blogger Graham Phillips in full military combats ID'd w/ #Russia|n Special forces / spetsnaz in east #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/W8rMRoJRdm

    GWP has his own personal bot network working for him:
    pic.twitter.com/WTI2xiAsXy
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-21-2015 at 10:27 PM.

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    Reference Georgia---South Ossetia border dispute where Russia simply moved the border markings to their advantage.

    Bringing Tusk to the border was provocative – “President of South Ossetia”
    http://www.interpressnews.ge/en/conf...skhinvali.html

  16. #956
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...#ixzz3gYKw8ix6

    Ukraine Can’t Survive On Its Own

    By TOM DASCHLE
    July 20, 2015
    Former US National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski:

    "We should make it more costly for Russians to use force"

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1041795.html

  17. #957
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    Just a cross sample of the shellings that went on through the early evening into this morning--

    Today in the early hours, militants have already attacked UKR positions near Optyne, Pisky, Krasnohorivka, Berezove and near DP – ATO

    Donetsk 7:56AM
    Intensive rumble in the northern part, like AGLs shooting https://twitter.com/funkermanjke/sta...18273490780160

    Maryinka 7:45AM
    Explosions in the boarding school area https://twitter.com/hyeva_maryinka/s...16862380126208

    Departure fr #Donetsk in #Volnovakha direction closed, shooting at #Olenivka"
    "Shooting at #Yasne (#Dokuchajevsk)" https://twitter.com/Ykrainaponadyse/...01359016153088

    07:10 #Horlivka @UA_Gorlivka A volley somewhere far away
    @DobryShubin I didn't hear
    @UA_Gorlivka The 3rd since 4am, north

    06:23 #Donetsk Putilovka @idinmor The morning starts with blasts again

    06:31 Nearby. Massive

    06:33 Impacts within city limits

    06:42 #Donetsk @AkaDON12 [Random tank shots] now at the airport direction, Bakiny then, Azotny, Shyroky

    06:01 #Dokuchaevsk @shuttle1907 Late. 1 sluggish incoming

    06:03 2nd RUS position w/2 SPG: old farm in Aleksandrinka

    01:44 #Donetsk Kyivsky ds @Shymanovski Again something rocket-like flew over very loudly

    01:21 #Luhansk @GeoVit72 Something has started fr/Luhansk and an explosion in 8-10 sec...
    #donbasreports

    00:16 #Donetsk @hunab_ku04 Just now a smallarms skirmish in Donbas shop area

    23:38 #Makeevka @666_mancer [fb] "A single boom" "Zaleny also heard"

    23:42 @makeevchanka On Kapitalna St it was also audible

    23:38 #Donetsk Kalininsky @Donetsk_Ukraine [Massive rumble]
    @666_mancer Heard once again a fly-over of something rocket-like

    20:04 #Donetsk Abakumova @Serzzze [fb] An explosion at 8pm [sharp], one more in a minute. All day hasn't been calm

    19:56 #Horlivka @ahab7822 Rumble in Shyroka_Balka

    20:18 #Bayrak @tgorlovka Within earshot here

    20:30 @ahab7822 Quiet for now
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-22-2015 at 06:49 AM.

  18. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Just a cross sample of the shellings that went on through the early evening into this morning--

    Today in the early hours, militants have already attacked UKR positions near Optyne, Pisky, Krasnohorivka, Berezove and near DP – ATO

    Donetsk 7:56AM
    Intensive rumble in the northern part, like AGLs shooting https://twitter.com/funkermanjke/sta...18273490780160

    Maryinka 7:45AM
    Explosions in the boarding school area https://twitter.com/hyeva_maryinka/s...16862380126208

    Departure fr #Donetsk in #Volnovakha direction closed, shooting at #Olenivka"
    "Shooting at #Yasne (#Dokuchajevsk)" https://twitter.com/Ykrainaponadyse/...01359016153088

    07:10 #Horlivka @UA_Gorlivka A volley somewhere far away
    @DobryShubin I didn't hear
    @UA_Gorlivka The 3rd since 4am, north

    06:23 #Donetsk Putilovka @idinmor The morning starts with blasts again

    06:31 Nearby. Massive

    06:33 Impacts within city limits

    06:42 #Donetsk @AkaDON12 [Random tank shots] now at the airport direction, Bakiny then, Azotny, Shyroky

    06:01 #Dokuchaevsk @shuttle1907 Late. 1 sluggish incoming

    06:03 2nd RUS position w/2 SPG: old farm in Aleksandrinka

    01:44 #Donetsk Kyivsky ds @Shymanovski Again something rocket-like flew over very loudly

    01:21 #Luhansk @GeoVit72 Something has started fr/Luhansk and an explosion in 8-10 sec...
    #donbasreports

    00:16 #Donetsk @hunab_ku04 Just now a smallarms skirmish in Donbas shop area

    23:38 #Makeevka @666_mancer [fb] "A single boom" "Zaleny also heard"

    23:42 @makeevchanka On Kapitalna St it was also audible

    23:38 #Donetsk Kalininsky @Donetsk_Ukraine [Massive rumble]
    @666_mancer Heard once again a fly-over of something rocket-like

    20:04 #Donetsk Abakumova @Serzzze [fb] An explosion at 8pm [sharp], one more in a minute. All day hasn't been calm

    19:56 #Horlivka @ahab7822 Rumble in Shyroka_Balka

    20:18 #Bayrak @tgorlovka Within earshot here

    20:30 @ahab7822 Quiet for now
    Yesterday Militants attacked positions of Ukrainian troops 80 times. Half of these at night (18:00-00:00) - ATOhttps://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...64&__tn__=%2As

    BTW--attack numbers past 58 per day indicate full combat operations.

    There is no "ceasefire" whatsoever under Minsk 2, the Russians have stopped POW exchanges and there are no heavy weapons withdrawal per Minsk 2 SO I am not sure just why Obama, Nuland, Hollande and Merkel are simply not saying a single word--utter silence.

    Russia has not implemented a single point in Minsk 2 YET the West keeps pressuring the Ukraine to make unilateral concessions.

    Munich 1938 all over again--simply stated the Western approach now is to "save Putin's face" via appeasement.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-22-2015 at 06:50 AM.

  19. #959
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    Komsomolske @lukliketramp [Recently] "RUS in urban camuflage arrived, look like spec forces. Boot camp here, so draw your own conclusions"

    RUMINT
    01:53 #Alchevks @ua_ares #Rumours: "Tacit mass [food] poisoning of terrorists in the area"

  20. #960
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Reference Georgia---South Ossetia border dispute where Russia simply moved the border markings to their advantage.

    Bringing Tusk to the border was provocative – “President of South Ossetia”
    http://www.interpressnews.ge/en/conf...skhinvali.html
    #News
    @eucopresident calls Russian expansion of occupied territory in #Georgia 's South Ossetia region a "clear provocation".

    BTW--Russia and South Ossetia have recently signed a mutual defense agreement giving Russia total protection rights over South Ossetia--was basically a "hidden annexation". South Ossetia troops integrated into the RU Army structures.

    BTW--there is currently a South Ossetia unit fighting in the eastern Ukraine with the Russian mercenaries.

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