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Thread: Ukraine: Russo-Ukr War (June-December 2015)

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  1. #1
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    We witnessed the inititation ceremony that turns ragtag rebels into cossacks Ukraine https://news.vice.com/article/we-wit...-into-cossacks … via @vicenews

    Defender of Ukraine on guard.
    via @ukatayka777
    pic.twitter.com/PhQPBtYAAW

    If I were Putin I would be ditching anything to do with the Donbass—the Rubel is tracking parallel to the price of oil and that is falling badly and will fall into the 30-40 USD ranges in the next week or two and remain there for a long while as Iranian oil slowly comes into the market and the USD is growing stronger daily.

    WTI Crude Oil: $48.00 ��
    Brent Crude Oil: $54.40 ��
    USD=RUB: $1 = 58.5220 ��


    Shoplifting in Russia is soaring as the economy crumbles ;( https://twitter.com/WBStevens/status/624574303225425920

    U.S. troops to train regular Ukrainian military troops: State Department http://reut.rs/1DCJurh

    Why @ICRC as “guardian” of international humanitarian law is ignoring its statutory duties to declare RU involvement? pic.twitter.com/GBbNisHsOY
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-24-2015 at 08:50 PM.

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    So much for Russian mercenaries "pulling back their tanks from the front lines"

    23:15 #Horlivka #Mykytivka @mihailovith Outgoing, they sound like tank shots

    23:35 #Komsomolske @Ukr_Che Hard to get where from and to, incoming or outgoing, but very loud and massive booms

    So, the OSCE now discusses not if there are ceasefire violations or not, but "the level of ceasefire violations" http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/1743...oscelatestnews

    23:25 #Maryinka @hyeva_maryinka [vk] Again sporadic shooting

    23:20 #Komsomolske @lukliketramp Both incoming and outgoing, started 10 min ago.

    23:20 #Komsomolske @lukliketramp Behind the kettles something's on fire (who can affirm?), flashes behind the waterworks

    Overview: Russian 'hybrid' volunteer units (DPR/LPR) are training hard, rotating troops at front line positions, calibrating weapons etc.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-24-2015 at 08:46 PM.

  3. #3
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    Appears that the US/Obama is in fact throwing the Ukraine under the bus for Russian assistance in Iran and Syria---by making unilateral moves with no reciprocal demands on Russia.

    Basically a new Munch 1938 in the name of "legacy".

    http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_...b#.VbKl2OoVhMs

    Obama Administration Undercutting Ukraine’s Position in the Minsk Armistice Negotiations

    Publication: Eurasia Daily Monitor Volume: 12 Issue: 139

    July 24, 2015 02:00 PM

    By: Vladimir Socor

    Urged by US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland in Kyiv last week, Ukraine took a first step toward legalizing the secessionist authorities in the country’s constitution (see EDM, July 20). Concurrently, US Vice President Joseph Biden asked Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to accept local elections being held and possibly validated in the secessionist territory (Ukrinform, White House press release, July 17). In the Contact Group, in Minsk this week, Ukraine faced similar pressure to legitimize the Donetsk and Luhansk authorities through local elections there (UNIAN, July 22).

    Russia, Western Europe generally, and the Barack Obama administration each seem to favor “freezing” this conflict as fast as possible, on terms acceptable to Russia, since these are the only terms presently available. But there are two possible ways of freezing this conflict.

    One way, the Russian “classical,” is seen with local variations in Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, Karabakh and Crimea. There, the secessionist authorities receive no international legitimacy, no status, no subsidies from the aggressed country, and no chance to subvert the latter’s political system.

    The other way to freeze is Russia’s latest innovation, using Donetsk and Luhansk in Ukraine’s east. This kind of freeze—still not resolving the conflict—would legalize the secessionist authorities and re-insert their entities into Ukraine’s political system, with prerogatives that would ensure instability, Russian influence and even Ukrainian subsidies to the legalized secessionist authorities.

    The Obama administration is now pushing for the second version, the one even more detrimental to Ukraine. The United States’ push tips the balance decisively. Berlin and Paris failed on their own to persuade Kyiv to move in that direction, but Washington apparently wields stronger leverage.

    The White House has reordered its policy priorities toward working with Russia on the Middle East, correspondingly becoming more accommodating to Russia’s position on implementing the Minsk armistice in Ukraine. From May 12 (Secretary of State John Kerry’s overture to Russian President Vladimir Putin in Sochi) to July 14 (signing of the international agreement on Iran’s nuclear program), the rapprochement with Russia looks rewarding to the Obama administration. The latter now hopes for Russia’s “help” on Syria; while the European Union feels that it “needs” Russia on Libya. With or without direct tradeoffs over Ukraine, as Lilya Shevtsova observes, Putin has put Washington “on the debtor’s roll” (Kasparov.ru, July 16).


    The administration portrays Russia again as a partner, a difficult but necessary, indeed “indispensable” partner to help “jointly resolve” common problems. It no longer describes Russia as “isolated,” nor as “merely” a regional power. The White House treats Putin as a desirable interlocutor again. Presidents Obama and Putin have conducted two long, detailed telephone conversations focusing on the Middle East. In their June 25/26 conversation, Obama did mention tangentially that Russia ought to remove its forces from Ukraine’s territory. Putin parried, as usual, that Russia has no forces in Ukraine, hence nothing to withdraw. In the July 15 Obama-Putin conversation, Ukraine was left unmentioned (White House and Kremlin readouts, cited by Interfax and RFE/RL, respectively, July 16).

    Washington and Moscow have established an unprecedented, bilateral format of negotiations on Ukraine, but in which Ukraine is not represented. Russia’s Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister Grigory Karasin and US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland are in charge of this channel. The United States, as leading Western power, had recused itself from both of the existing formats, namely the Minsk Contact Group (Ukraine, Russia and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe—OSCE) and the Normandy Quartet (Russia, Germany, France and Ukraine, where Ukraine is often isolated but at least represented). Kerry and Russia’s Foreign Affairs Minister Sergei Lavrov had discussed Ukraine intermittently and inconsistently, never in a dedicated “format.”

    Kerry proposed a bilateral US-Russia channel in Sochi (see above). In that location, fronting on the Russian-occupied Abkhazia on one side and on Russian-annexed Crimea on the other side, Kerry mentioned neither. Instead, taking his hosts’ bait at the news conference, Kerry warned Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko preemptively, lest he breaches the armistice (State.gov, May 12).

    Putin readily agreed with Kerry’s proposal on the Nuland-Karasin channel. This bilateral format excludes Ukraine while operating without publicity, below the principals’ level. Second, it equalizes Russia with the US in a superior league, above the European powers, while blindsiding these (Berlin in particular). Third, it enables Moscow to play this channel off against the “European” Normandy Quartet. Fourth, and of determinant significance, Moscow insists that the US alone could (if it only would) pressure Ukraine into concessions to Russia, e.g., by changing Ukraine’s constitution and legitimizing the Donetsk-Luhansk authorities.

    Nuland and Karasin met several times during May and June on an exploratory basis. The chief of Russia’s presidential administration, Sergei Ivanov, declared the bilateral Russia-US format to be more effective than the Normandy format (Rossiya 1 TV, June 20). In that vein, Lavrov urged Kerry “to influence Ukraine to establish a direct dialogue with Donetsk and Luhansk, which is key to the implementation of the Minsk agreements” (Interfax, July 1).

    On June 25/26, Putin called Obama to discuss some details of “helping” the United States in the Middle East (see above). The Nuland-Karasin channel was fully activated as a direct by-product of that telephone call. On July 2, Nuland told a Russian interviewer that Kerry had proposed, and Putin agreed, on the Nuland-Karasin channel “to help facilitate the implementation of the Minsk agreements” (Ekho Moskvy, July 3).

    The US, however, had never been a party to the Minsk Two document (February 12), nor to the accompanying declaration by the Normandy group, which pledged to facilitate that document’s implementation. In early July, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande pressured the Ukrainian leaders to meet Russia’s main current demand, namely to start legalizing the secessionist authorities in Ukraine’s constitution (see EDM, July 9, 10). They failed momentarily; but, within days, Nuland scored a first success where Merkel and Hollande had failed (see EDM, July 20).

    Washington had retained flexibility by keeping its distance from the deeply flawed Minsk process. The US, with commendable insistence, calls on Russia to remove its forces from Ukraine’s territory, citing the Minsk armistice, although that document stipulates nothing about Russia. The US had not, until now, asked Kyiv to legalize the secessionist authorities in Ukraine’s constitution, or to accept secessionist local “elections” in that territory. But Nuland’s visit to Kyiv and Biden’s phone call from Washington (see above) have shifted that position brusquely (see accompanying article).
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-24-2015 at 09:04 PM.

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    Has Obama committed the ultimate Munich 1938 appeasement by conducting unilateral moves without demanding reciprocal Russian moves all in the name of his “legacy”.

    Ukraine Accepts Constitutional Amendment to Russia’s Advantage at US Insistence

    Publication: Eurasia Daily Monitor Volume: 12 Issue: 139

    July 24, 2015 03:35 PM

    By: Vladimir Socor

    The international context of negotiations to implement the Minsk armistice is changing in Russia’s favor. As the leading Western power, the Barack Obama administration effectively pressures Ukraine to legitimize the Donetsk-Luhansk authorities in the constitution and through elections. This would satisfy Russia’s main demands at this stage (with more demands awaiting).

    German chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande recently failed to pressure Kyiv into those concessions to Russia (see EDM, July 9, 10). From lower hierarchical rungs, US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and Vice President Joseph Biden are pressuring Ukraine more successfully, since US leverage on Kyiv is stronger and tips the balance (see accompanying article).

    Increasingly, the object of negotiations is Ukraine’s own constitution—namely, accommodating Russia’s demands to insert its Donetsk-Luhansk proxies into Ukraine’s political system. The focus on Ukraine’s constitution means that Ukraine itself, instead of Russia’s aggression, becomes the object of negotiations. In that sense, the diplomatic process is rapidly turning into negotiations “on,” and potentially “over,” Ukraine.

    Western powers now hold Ukraine its to constitutional “obligations”—the new buzzword—vis-ŕ-vis Russia, under the Minsk Two agreement (February 12); although this is no “agreement” but a diktat and not a valid source of Ukrainian “obligations.” Wiggling out of onerous obligations is a standard diplomatic practice; but Western diplomacy does not support Ukraine to wiggle out from political “obligations” to the Kremlin’s Minsk Diktat.

    No Western power had ever held Georgia, Moldova or other aggressed countries to political (let alone constitutional) “obligations” toward Moscow or Moscow’s proxies. Ukraine is now experiencing this Western pressure for the first time. While this message is not surprising from Berlin, and certainly not shocking from Paris, it is only Washington that can enforce those “obligations” on Ukraine
    .

    Assistant Secretary Nuland acted as enforcer during her July 15–16 visit to Kyiv. She sounded the “obligations” buzzword more loudly and more frequently than any Western diplomat yet (America House Kyiv news release, Ukrinform, UNIAN, Ukraine Media Crisis Center, July 15–17). Nuland prevailed on President Petro Poroshenko and parliamentary leaders to approve a constitutional amendment that, if confirmed in subsequent votes, would insert Russia’s armed proxies from Donetsk and Luhansk as legitimate players in Ukraine’s political system (see EDM, July 20).

    From the Obama White House’s domestic political perspective, Nuland was ideally suited for such enforcement. As the most forward-leaning official of this administration on Ukraine, she enjoys unparalleled confidence in Congress, specifically on Ukraine policy. In Kyiv, it seemed shocking that Nuland of all possible emissaries should demand constitutional concessions to Russia at Ukraine’s expense. But she apparently had her marching orders from the top. That a “mere” US assistant secretary should force the Ukrainian president’s hand, meanwhile, seems normal in Kyiv, reflecting US influence there and Ukrainian reliance on the United States.

    Moscow had publicly insisted all along that the US alone holds the leverage to pressure Kyiv into concessions. The Kremlin readily accepted the US proposal to create the US-Russia channel of Nuland and her Russian counterpart, Grigory Karasin, for bilateral handling of Ukrainian matters, without Ukraine and without publicity. This channel is a direct by-product of the Obama White House’s rapprochement with Russia over the Middle East. As the rapprochement advanced closer to fruition over Iran, the Nuland-Karasin channel became increasingly active. Following their meeting in Zurich, on July 9, Karasin declared: “We have agreed to meet periodically in order to exert a constructive influence on Kyiv, to facilitate the fulfillment of these [Minsk] agreements, by Kyiv in the first place. Washington has great influence; we hope that our contacts will allow us to use this influence” (Interfax, RIA Novosti, July 10).

    According to Russian media, citing the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Karasin and Nuland conferred by telephone on July 20 and 22, about “practical matters regarding the constitutional reform in Ukraine.” This was a follow-up to Nuland’s intercession with Kyiv to approve the constitutional amendment that would legalize the secessionist authorities. In this follow-up, Karasin “insisted on a start to direct dialogue between the representatives of Kyiv and those of Donetsk and Luhansk” (Interfax, July 20, 22). While Moscow offers such tidbits on the Karasin-Nuland channel, Washington does not comment—for instance, about Moscow’s assertion that Ukraine’s constitution has become an object of informal US-Russia talks.

    Speculation is rife in Kyiv that the Obama administration might short-change Ukraine as a quid-pro-quo for Russia’s “help” (current and prospective) on the Middle East. Asked about this in Kyiv, Nuland replied: “It is offensive to suggest that the US does tradeoffs. The US never trades one thing for another thing in international relations” (Ukrinform, Zerkalo Nedeli, July 16). It may well be that no deal exists, at least not directly; and the indignant rejoinder was perhaps fully sincere. But, according to Serhiy Tolstov of the Kyiv Institute of Political Analysis, the rejoinder in that form and that context “sounded ridiculous to any graduate from international relations courses” (17-07-FP-info, accessed July 24).

    President Poroshenko tried very hard, against his own wisdom, to line up the governing coalition behind this constitutional amendment. He resorted to the ultimate argument, far beyond the intrinsic merits of the case: “Do not create with your own hands a situation that would leave Ukraine facing the aggressor one on one” (Ukrinform, July 16). Had Poroshenko been threatened with loss of Western support? Regardless, some deputies from this camp declined to vote for the constitutional amendment, or voted against it, bucking coalition discipline. Conversely, the parliamentary factions that originate in the former Party of Regions genuinely approved this constitutional amendment. The amendment passed thanks to the former Party of Regions deputies; and even so, far short of the constitutional majority that will be required in the final reading.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-24-2015 at 09:12 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Appears that the US/Obama is in fact throwing the Ukraine under the bus for Russian assistance in Iran and Syria---by making unilateral moves with no reciprocal demands on Russia.

    Basically a new Munch 1938 in the name of "legacy".

    http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_...b#.VbKl2OoVhMs

    Obama Administration Undercutting Ukraine’s Position in the Minsk Armistice Negotiations

    Publication: Eurasia Daily Monitor Volume: 12 Issue: 139

    July 24, 2015 02:00 PM

    By: Vladimir Socor
    Biden and Nuland tag teaming the Ukraine in the name of appeasement for a proPutin Ukrainian settlement and that is called “US Foreign Policy”??????

    What happened to the US signature on the 1994 Budapest Memorandum????

    Vice President Joe Biden spoke today with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko: pic.twitter.com/4IQIVpZNW5

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Appears that the US/Obama is in fact throwing the Ukraine under the bus for Russian assistance in Iran and Syria---by making unilateral moves with no reciprocal demands on Russia.

    Basically a new Munch 1938 in the name of "legacy".

    http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_...b#.VbKl2OoVhMs

    Obama Administration Undercutting Ukraine’s Position in the Minsk Armistice Negotiations

    Publication: Eurasia Daily Monitor Volume: 12 Issue: 139

    July 24, 2015 02:00 PM

    By: Vladimir Socor
    So while Obama is full appeasement mode and is not demanding that Putin implement anything in Minsk 2 this the reality on the ground in eastern Ukraine--pay close attention to the last paragraph and ask the question does this look like a Putin who is trying to "freeze" or a Putin willing to use force to acquire the entire Donbas under his control??

    http://maidantranslations.com/2015/0...freesavchenko/

    Dmitry Tymchuk: Military update 7.24

    Posted on July 24, 2015 by chervonaruta

    Translated and edited by Voices of Ukraine

    Operational data from Information Resistance:

    In addition to “traditional” shelling with 120-mm mortars as well as 122-mm and 152-mm artillery, Russian-terrorist forces in Donbas have stepped up the use of armored vehicles and air reconnaissance (at least 10 UAV flights recorded) during the past twenty-four hours. Active operations by “small groups” of militants in the “greenery” have not ceased, while terrorist sabotage and reconnaissance groups and raiding parties are active across the whole of the Luhansk sector (especially along the Severskyi Donets river).

    The situation has intensified the most in the Donetsk and Horlivka areas, where the bulk of the shelling and armed provocations by militants occurred in the past day. In addition to the sector from Mar’inka to the northwestern outskirts of Horlivka, another area of especially heightened enemy activity consisted of the settlements of Svitlodarsk, Luhanske and Mironovskyi.

    So, in the past twenty-four hours, militants repeatedly carried out fire strikes using 122 mm and 152 mm artillery in the Shyroka Balka – Novhorodske area. The enemy opened fire with 82 mm and 120 mm mortars on the advanced positions of Ukrainian troops from Ozeryanivka and the eastern shore of the Horlivske reservoir, at the same time as terrorists made active use of AGS-17 automatic grenade launchers along the demarcation line close to Leninske – Shumy.

    Near the Donetsk airport and the settlement of Opytne, militants used several armored groups (each with 5-6 AFVs–armored fighting vehicles – IFVs–infantry fighting vehicles or APCs–armored personnel carriers). These armored groups opened intensive fire from their on-board weapons on the advanced positions of Ukrainian troops. The militants used 122 mm artillery to provide cover fire for their armored vehicles as the latter took firing positions. Firing was by two batteries of D-30 howitzers – one from the vicinity of Spartak, the other – from beyond the settlement of Vesele, and south of Stratonavtiv Street (Donetsk city).

    Militants shelled the southern suburbs of Avdiivka, Opytne and Pisky using 120 mm mortars.

    In the area of Mar’inka, Krasnohorivka and Lozove, the movements of small terrorist infantry groups, under cover of the “greenery,” were recorded. In particular, the enemy tried to approach the ATO forces’ positions in order to scout out the front edge of the Ukrainian troops. These groups opened small arms fire randomly to provoke retaliatory fire from ATO forces and in this way identify their firing positions.

    Shelling from 82 mm mortars was recorded near the settlement of Luhanske. An enemy armored group was also operating in this area – fire strikes from tank guns were directed at the advanced ATO forces’ positions.

    In the direction of Alchevsk, a militants’ mortar group (six 82 mm mortars and three 120 mm mortars) kept shelling the positions of ATO forces near the settlement of Krymske.

    Armed clashes among the “greenery” were recorded in the Zolote, Orikhove, Vesela Hora and Shchastya sector and near the settlement of Stanytsia Luhanska. Near the settlement of Shchastya, the enemy used AGS-17 grenade launchers several times.

    In the coastal direction (near Shyrokyne and east of Hnutove), militants operating as infantry groups opened fire several times using small arms.

    The number of militant troops and armored vehicles continue to grow south of Donetsk and towards the coast. A manoeuvring of part of the Russian-terrorist troops and their materiel was recorded towards the Kulykove–Shevchenko–Kozatske sector from the Komsomolske–Starobesheve district. At least two additional units of “infantry-company” strength (totalling 160-180 men) accompanied by eight tanks and 16-18 AFV–armored fighting vehicles (mainly IFV-1 and IFV-2 armoured fighting vehicles and 1 MT-LB multipurpose light-armoured transporter) have been observed moving to the front line. Both units arrived from the north through Telmanove. Some arriving forces are in the process of deploying to the east of this sector as a tactical reserve (in particular, another subunit of a combat tank company of up to 8 tanks and a company of infantry troops unaccompanied by armored vehicles on Kamaz\Ural trucks).

    Another tactical terrorist group has been spotted in the Bezimenne – Patriotychne –Samsonove area. It consists of 10 tanks, 25-26 AFV–armored fighting vehicles and 30 trucks and other transport vehicles.

    To the east of Highway T0508, several militant artillery units (two 4-gun batteries of 122 mm D-30 howitzers, as well as six SAU 2S1 “Gvozdika” [self-propelled guns] have been identified. A terrorist two-battery BM-21 “Grad” MLRS division is being deployed near the settlement of Huselshchykove.

    North of Luhansk (in the area of Vesela Hora – Khristovo – Pankivka) a new militant armored group has been spotted (10 tanks and 9 APCs–armored personnel carriers, including four of the latest Russian APC-82A model). The armored vehicles are being camouflaged and dug in.

    The IR group concludes, based on operational information, that the terrorists are currently forming two large tactical strike forces: the first in the Volnovakha direction (south of Donetsk) in the section from Olenivka to Hranitne and Staromarivka. And the second, directly in the coastal area itself from slightly north of Bezimenne to Pavlopil and Chermalyk.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Appears that the US/Obama is in fact throwing the Ukraine under the bus for Russian assistance in Iran and Syria---by making unilateral moves with no reciprocal demands on Russia.

    Basically a new Munch 1938 in the name of "legacy".

    http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_...b#.VbKl2OoVhMs

    Obama Administration Undercutting Ukraine’s Position in the Minsk Armistice Negotiations

    Publication: Eurasia Daily Monitor Volume: 12 Issue: 139

    July 24, 2015 02:00 PM

    By: Vladimir Socor
    So much for the much heralded so called “withdrawal” by Russian troops and her mercenaries of any heavy weapons and or 100mm or less.

    So that great unilateral move by Obama without Russia reciprocal moves is a great success it seems???

    Yesterday militants attacked positions of Ukrainian troops 70 times. Attacks intensified during the night - ATO

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...22&__tn__=%2As

    Any attack numbers above 50-55 is an indicator of full combat ops on the part of the Russians.

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    Latitude 67N SIGINT @uascan
    RUAF strategic air force (Tu22/Tu95/Tu160) sw net up with voice traffic. Bears, Backfires or Blackjacks flying today?


    Energy expert: Gazprom has nowhere to sell its gas
    http://www.unian.info/economics/1104...l-its-gas.html … pic.twitter.com/3G6vnsY23G

    Maryinka @hyeva_maryinka [vk]
    06:40 Nothing changed since last evening, as it's rumbled occasionally in the night, as it is

    Russian forces on Friday afternoon, shelled Novgorodske with incendiary shells http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/25-july...ed-novgorodske

    The BBC in Donetsk's former airport, where the Cyborgs have held the line for 8 months: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33646562 … pic.twitter.com/o0BXd5YhuP

    NEW Russian troops in the Ukraine—clear indicator----
    Jul24 15:55 @messy_dn_ua At 3pm In #Snizhne they were asking locals which way is to #Donetsk
    https://twitter.com/loogunda/status/624560087634472960

    During the last day 1 Ukrainian soldier and 1 civilian were wounded in the Stanytsia Luhanska area - Luhansk RSA

    01:00 today Positions of 72nd Mechanized Brigade near Volnovakha came under massive artillery bombardment - Butusov
    https://m.facebook.com/butusov.yuriy...e_butusov&_rdr

    Russian skilled workers in Donbass: Cotton Pickers. pic.twitter.com/z5ZWk6pBGt

    While Obama applies unilateral pressure on the Ukraine to cave in and implement fully Minsk 2 to their own detriment--- massive artillery strikes are being carried out against Ukrainian positions from the "so called " withdrawn heavy weapons and tanks (120mm mortars, tanks with 125mm 122mm/152mm SPGs and artillery) really for the unilateral move by the US what did it get back from Moscow---nothing.

    AND Putin is still not in compliance with Minsk 2 YET Obama demands the Ukrainians come into compliance--and that is a great US foreign policy position???

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Appears that the US/Obama is in fact throwing the Ukraine under the bus for Russian assistance in Iran and Syria---by making unilateral moves with no reciprocal demands on Russia.

    Basically a new Munch 1938 in the name of "legacy".

    http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_...b#.VbKl2OoVhMs

    Obama Administration Undercutting Ukraine’s Position in the Minsk Armistice Negotiations

    Publication: Eurasia Daily Monitor Volume: 12 Issue: 139

    July 24, 2015 02:00 PM

    By: Vladimir Socor
    So the question to be asked is --is Obama, Nuland and Biden actively working to support the Ukraine as they claim they are doing and or they actively supporting Putin who has stated a number of times he will use tactical nuclear weapons against NATO??

    It is a valid question.

    Over 40 vehicles of the OSCE/IRC were vandalized this week , their drone was jammed by Russian troops in clear violation of Minsk 2 this week AND today they were mortared and NOT by the Ukrainians-AND the Russians actively turned back this week a IRC 1000 ton humanitarian aid shipment all the while claiming a serious humanitarian problem in eastern Ukraine

    --Russia is definitely not wanting the OSCE to be actively monitor their occupied zones and the question is WHY????

    THEN today a active service Russian MAJ trucking a truck load of munitions with a mercenary are captured inside the Ukraine--AND Putin keeps stating there are no Russian troops in the Ukraine???

    Even Obama and Nuland fully understand that the OSCE mission that even Russia supported is to fully monitor events in eastern Ukraine.

    Russia is waging war on Ukraine, not “hampering monitoring”. Meanwhile, US harasses UKR to concede to Putin’s demands and self-destruct.

    ANDRIY BILETSKY'S RESPONSE TO THE DEMAND OF THE "NORMANDY FOUR" TO DEMILITARIZE #SHYROKYNE #Mariupol pic.twitter.com/3mggJGCnke

    Interesting that "legacy" rules over common sense as the current US foreign policy.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-26-2015 at 05:30 PM.

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    So the responses from Obama, Nuland and Biden who forced unilateral appeasement on the Ukraine in order to safe "Putin's face" is exactly what again????

    Intensive shellings and equally extensive/intensive ground attacks underway tonight on the eastern front.

    So Obama's words of "we will judge Putin's action and not his words" meant exactly what????

    Confirmation
    Three Russian infantry attacks on #Shchastya were repulsed by Ukrainian forces over the day. - ATO command


    Mariinka heavy combat. https://twitter.com/Maxi_Good/status/625371221258043392

    Maryinka 21:14
    Heavy battle
    https://twitter.com/Maxi_Good/status/625371221258043392

    21:18 #Donetsk @Don_Riccio Firing in #Trudovski direction, small arms and heavy [MG or artillery?]

    Donetsk 21:13
    Trudovsky ds - something powerful shooting https://twitter.com/Maxi_Good/status/625368292811767808

    Donetsk 21:10
    Glow and smoke visible from the #Starobeshevo road area https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/sta...69626151530496

    Donetsk [Chemical plant direction?] @vitaliy00700 https://twitter.com/vitaliy00700/sta...73103187734528

    19:57 #Avdeevka @bamr69 Rumble, #Opytne-#Pisky. Large calibre automatic weapons, a couple of blasts

    19:56 #Dzerzhynsk @blessmaster They made some noise and calmed down soon.

    20:04 #Kramatorsk @sv_inaya What has just rumbled?

    21:05 #Avdeevka @avdey777ka [vk] About 10 projectiles hit #Orlovka

    Guess how many times was Donetsk shelled during past 24 hours? None. Zero. While the monkeys are firing everywhere they can.

    20:38 #Avdeevka @JuZolyshkaLia Shelling once and again, I lost count of volleys. Hisses.

    Avdiivka 20:31
    "Lots of salvos, lots. Shooting... scared!" https://twitter.com/JuZolyshkaLia/st...57707583848448

    20:35 #Avdeevka @tiamat007 Heavy [cannons] came into play, hiss of [projectiles] flying over heard

    20:30 #Avdeevka @rechnikato A strong volley, loud hiss, but no blast heard

    20:40 #Marinka whirr again 10 minutes. Mostly AGS. Has never been applied in such quantities @hyeva_maryinka

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    So the responses from Obama, Nuland and Biden who forced unilateral appeasement on the Ukraine in order to safe "Putin's face" is exactly what again????

    Intensive shellings and equally extensive/intensive ground attacks underway tonight on the eastern front.

    So Obama's words of "we will judge Putin's action and not his words" meant exactly what????

    Confirmation
    Three Russian infantry attacks on #Shchastya were repulsed by Ukrainian forces over the day. - ATO command


    Mariinka heavy combat. https://twitter.com/Maxi_Good/status/625371221258043392

    Maryinka 21:14
    Heavy battle
    https://twitter.com/Maxi_Good/status/625371221258043392

    21:18 #Donetsk @Don_Riccio Firing in #Trudovski direction, small arms and heavy [MG or artillery?]

    Donetsk 21:13
    Trudovsky ds - something powerful shooting https://twitter.com/Maxi_Good/status/625368292811767808

    Donetsk 21:10
    Glow and smoke visible from the #Starobeshevo road area https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/sta...69626151530496

    Donetsk [Chemical plant direction?] @vitaliy00700 https://twitter.com/vitaliy00700/sta...73103187734528

    19:57 #Avdeevka @bamr69 Rumble, #Opytne-#Pisky. Large calibre automatic weapons, a couple of blasts

    19:56 #Dzerzhynsk @blessmaster They made some noise and calmed down soon.

    20:04 #Kramatorsk @sv_inaya What has just rumbled?

    21:05 #Avdeevka @avdey777ka [vk] About 10 projectiles hit #Orlovka

    Guess how many times was Donetsk shelled during past 24 hours? None. Zero. While the monkeys are firing everywhere they can.

    20:38 #Avdeevka @JuZolyshkaLia Shelling once and again, I lost count of volleys. Hisses.

    Avdiivka 20:31
    "Lots of salvos, lots. Shooting... scared!"
    https://twitter.com/JuZolyshkaLia/st...57707583848448

    20:35 #Avdeevka @tiamat007 Heavy [cannons] came into play, hiss of [projectiles] flying over heard

    20:30 #Avdeevka @rechnikato A strong volley, loud hiss, but no blast heard

    20:40 #Marinka whirr again 10 minutes. Mostly AGS. Has never been applied in such quantities @hyeva_maryinka
    Getting worse by the hour...............

    Avdeevka, coke plant area is hit. About 100 shells. Saw video. Reportedly 2 WIA civilians. https://twitter.com/rechnikato/statu...82699268763648
    http://youtu.be/TA3KAOLs9pw

    26/07/15 #Avdiivka,evening shooting http://youtu.be/TA3KAOLs9pw https://twitter.com/666_mancer/statu...83102261665792

    Avdiivka was massively shelled by RU after 20:40, hits in Chimic ds, near train station, steel plant, Orlovka, etc. http://timer-odessa.net/news/avdeevk...trelu_705.html

    Horlivka 22:20
    Thunders heavily to north.
    Nikotovka and Holma incoming from #Mayorsk
    https://twitter.com/Julia_Twinkle/st...82789605683200

    21:33-21-35 #Donetsk Petrovka, #Maryinka @Maxi_Good Calmed down a bit

    Avdiivka 21:49
    Volleys started again, the fall barely audible or not audible. https://twitter.com/JuZolyshkaLia/st...77351057190912

    Krasnohorivka 21:30
    Disturbing sounds can be heard from towards #Maryinka https://twitter.com/hyeva_maryinka/s...76382005157888

    Maryinka 21:20
    Battle shifted from boarding school to Sovkhoz area. Sparlkes, volleys, tracers across the sky
    . https://twitter.com/hyeva_maryinka/s...75806194384897

    Something's on fire in #Donetsk. https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/sta...72822760636416
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-26-2015 at 07:32 PM.

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    Serious fighting is ongoing both via Russian shellings and Russian ground attacks.

    AND where is exactly now those that assumed one can do "appeasement" with Putin--this was the answer----for all to see.


    Obama--"we will judge Putin's actions not his words--well we have the actions and the US response is again what --silence.


    4 UKR WIA, 2 RU KIA fighting near #Schastya reports gov #Lugansk George Tuka FB page https://www.facebook.com/george.tuka...99866930127712 … pic.twitter.com/n5D1wcfjHC

    Luhansk 22:50
    10 minutes ago ruscists began shelling #Stanytsia_Luhanska https://twitter.com/LUGANSK_TODAY/st...92860188274689

    Yelenovka watching missiles launching from Petrovka district, three pieces.
    #Donetsk 22:16 https://twitter.com/nektonh/status/625384309562712064
    Rockets (MLRS), not missiles.

    Maryinka 22:00
    Situation unchanged, battle continues.

    Mariinka as of 22:45 - no let up at all. Machineguns non-stop and occasional AGLs. https://twitter.com/666_mancer/statu...93708423348224

    22:58
    Already since several hours rumble at #Maryinka https://twitter.com/pinokioner/statu...95341240717313

    Avdiivka 22:35
    "115 shells fell"
    https://twitter.com/avdey777ka/statu...89060392099842

    Horlivka 22:45
    Blue glow in district 6/7 area https://twitter.com/tetznka/status/625391501753872384

    22:00 #Donetsk @donetsk_paradis About 1hr ago 3 tanks moved fr/#Starobesheve tow/Budennovsky

    Avdeevka railway station is heavily damaged, lots of hits. https://twitter.com/avdey777ka/statu...86931447332864

    VIDEO: Shelling of Avdiivka tonight
    (Via @666_mancer)
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tfAd48...ature=youtu.be … pic.twitter.com/JquKnJbxP9

    4 soldiers wounded as result of russian shelling at #Shchastya. https://twitter.com/Dbnmjr/status/625389116226727937

    Core problem with the UA—their senior commanders are a lost lot---too much of the old Soviet system in them ---
    Sector M commander: "Водяное, не наша территория" = "Vodyane, not our territory". Who's territory is? It's in Ukraine
    http://inforesist.org/komanduyushhij...lya/?_utl_t=tw

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Appears that the US/Obama is in fact throwing the Ukraine under the bus for Russian assistance in Iran and Syria---by making unilateral moves with no reciprocal demands on Russia.

    Basically a new Munch 1938 in the name of "legacy".

    http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_...b#.VbKl2OoVhMs

    Obama Administration Undercutting Ukraine’s Position in the Minsk Armistice Negotiations

    Publication: Eurasia Daily Monitor Volume: 12 Issue: 139

    July 24, 2015 02:00 PM

    By: Vladimir Socor
    Talk about "third and fourth order of effects" this is what unilateral appeasement gets the US and the EU with no reciprocal demands.

    Well it looks like the Obama, Nuland, Kerry, Hollande and Merkel unilateral appeasement moves got this right—appeasement seems to be working great this week.

    AND what has Russia done to fulfill the Minsk 2 agreements? Nothing.

    Former PM Azarov to present Ukrainian government- and president-in-exile in Moscow on Thursday http://m.gazeta.ru/politics/news/201..._7418113.shtml

    Azarov and Co represent "alternative government" in #Moscow http://novosti.dn.ua/details/256314/ pic.twitter.com/K9VJHJoZTJ

    THIs leads to a very interesting adventure facing the US and the EU--does now Russia negotiate with the "government in exile" for the annexation of eastern Ukraine? AND if so does THEN Russia using those agreements militarily expand the mini eastern Ukraine state to the full Donbas region.

    AND the US, the EU and NATO cannot say a single word.

    The problem with unilateral moves with no counter demands means at some point you lose--as simple as that and it appears the US and Europe have been outplayed.

    Will be interesting to see if DC even mentions this in the coming days or attempts to gloss over it.

    Yanukovych's Former PM Azarov To Present 'Alternative Ukrainian Government' In Moscow

    13:17 (GMT)

    Russia's Gazeta.ru reports that the former Ukrainian prime minister, Mykola Azarov, who resigned during the EuroMaidan protests on January 28, 2014, is to form an "alternative Ukrainian government" in Russia.

    Azarov's press secretary, Sergei Zavorotny, told Gazeta.ru that an "alternative candidate for the president of Ukraine" will be presented at a press conference tomorrow at the Ukraina Hotel in Moscow tomorrow.

    Zavorotny said that the committee to form this alternative government includes several former Ukrainian MPs from Yanukovych's Party of Regions: Igor Markov, Vladimir Oleynik and Oleg Tsaryov.

    "Azarov himself may head the Ukrainian government in exile."

    As Gazeta.ru notes, Azarov told RIA Novosti in February this year that he does not consider the current Ukrainian government to be legitimate.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-29-2015 at 01:35 PM.

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    The four articles of the UNSC draft proposal for a MH17 tribunal that Russia will veto since they shot down MH17.

    Draft Statute

    International Criminal Tribunal for Malaysia AirlinesFlight MH17

    Having been established by the Security Council acting under Chapter VII of theCharter of the United Nations, the International Criminal Tribunal for Malaysia AirlinesFlight MH17 (hereinafter referred to as “the Tribunal”), shall function and exercise itsjurisdiction in accordance with the provisions of the present Statute.
    Section I
    Jurisdiction of the Tribunal

    Article 1
    Crimes within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal The Tribunal shall have jurisdiction over persons responsible for crimes connected with
    the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 on 17 July 2014.
    Subject to paragraph 1, the Tribunal has jurisdiction in accordance with this Statute with respect to the following crimes: War crimes, as defined in article 2; Crimes against the safety of civil aviation, as defined in article 3; and Crimes under the Criminal Code of Ukraine, as defined in article
    4.

    Article 2
    War crimes For the purpose of this Statute, war crimes means:
    The following grave breach of the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, namely, wilful killing when committed against a person protected under the provisions of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.Other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in international armed conflict, within the established framework of international law, namely, any of the following acts:
    Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against
    individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities; Intentionally directing attacks against civilian objects, that is, objects which are not
    military objectives. In the case of an armed conflict, not of an international character, serious violations of Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, namely, violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture committed against persons taking no active part in armed hostilities.
    Other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in armed conflicts not of an international character, within the established framework of international law, namely, intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities.

    Article 3
    Crimes against the safety of civil aviation For the purpose of this Statute, crimes against the safety of civil aviation means destroying, damaging or endangering the safety of aircraft as defined in section 9 of the Aviation Offences Act 1984 of Malaysia.

    Article 4
    Crimes under the Criminal Code of Ukraine For the purpose of this Statute, crimes under the Criminal Code of Ukraine means:
    Murder as defined in Article 115;Negligent homicide as defined in Article 119;Wilful destruction of, or damage to, property as defined in Article 194;Smuggling as defined in Article 201;Crimes against public safety as defined in Articles 258 and 258-3 to 258- 5;Unlawful handling of weapons, ammunition or explosives as defined in Article 263;Concealment of a criminal offense as defined in Article 396;Trespass against life of a foreign state representative as defined in Article 443.
    Interesting to see how Russia "sells their veto" since they are always claiming they adamantly support all international laws, regulations and norms when they claim they do anything.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-29-2015 at 01:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    The four articles of the UNSC draft proposal for a MH17 tribunal that Russia will veto since they shot down MH17.

    Interesting to see how Russia "sells their veto" since they are always claiming they adamantly support all international laws, regulations and norms when they claim they do anything.
    After blocking anything on MH17 now this from Putin--wonder what his next move is going to be...........but since it is from the Russian side of the conversation who knows what it means??

    Today Putin spoke with PM of Holland and said that"Russia's ready for close cooperation" in investigation of #MH17 pic.twitter.com/EGA8nET7g3

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    So much for Russian mercenaries "pulling back their tanks from the front lines"

    23:15 #Horlivka #Mykytivka @mihailovith Outgoing, they sound like tank shots

    23:35 #Komsomolske @Ukr_Che Hard to get where from and to, incoming or outgoing, but very loud and massive booms

    So, the OSCE now discusses not if there are ceasefire violations or not, but "the level of ceasefire violations" http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/1743...oscelatestnews

    23:25 #Maryinka @hyeva_maryinka [vk] Again sporadic shooting

    23:20 #Komsomolske @lukliketramp Both incoming and outgoing, started 10 min ago.

    23:20 #Komsomolske @lukliketramp Behind the kettles something's on fire (who can affirm?), flashes behind the waterworks

    Overview: Russian 'hybrid' volunteer units (DPR/LPR) are training hard, rotating troops at front line positions, calibrating weapons etc.
    We are concerned by about Russian artillery actvity east of Volnovakha (ie Komsomolske, Starohnativka

    00:20 #Komsomolske @lukliketramp I thought it went quiet, but no. It's stable [=shelling again]

    17:07 #Dokuchaevsk @whicard5 In town outskirts RUS troops rotation is finished, also more ammo delivered and hardware swapped
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-24-2015 at 09:42 PM.

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    If Russia blocks UN Security Council tribunal for MH17 downing, use Council of Europe: no veto http://bit.ly/1HXnMAa pic.twitter.com/gi9LFgHz0X

    Russia likely to veto UN vote on MH17 http://www.3news.co.nz/world/russia-...RxXYFI.twitter
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-24-2015 at 09:37 PM.

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