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Thread: Ukraine: Russo-Ukr War (June-December 2015)

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  1. #1
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    EU/NATO make public plans to counter Russian propaganda and THEN we get this response from the Russian Foreign Minister.


    MFA Russia ✔ @mfa_russia
    #EU violates the right to freedom of speech, forming conditions for total discrimination against Russian media http://tass.ru/en/russia/803709


    EU violates right to freedom of speech — Russian Foreign Ministry

    Russia
    June 24, 21:33 UTC+3

    Mogherini's proposals on the development of a ‘strategy to counter the Kremlin’s propaganda’ is clearly aimed to oust Russian presence in the international media environment, the ministry says

    MOSCOW, June 24. /TASS/. The European Union violates the right to freedom of speech, forming conditions for total discrimination against Russian media, the Russian Foreign Ministry said Wednesday.

    "Proposals of High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Federica Mogherini on the development of a ‘strategy to counter the Kremlin’s propaganda’, presented on June 23 at a meeting of the EU Council... are clearly aimed to oust Russian presence in the international media environment," the ministry said.

    "Following imposition of restrictive measures against Russian journalists, the European Union is trying to form conditions for total discrimination against Russian media," it said.
    This is now the third propaganda concept Russia is now employing;
    1. the 4Ds and 2Ds
    2. the reverse flip meaning I say you are doing something first then I actually do what I claim you are doing

    NOW--the next concept---I can do things BUT then demand you cannot do them.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-25-2015 at 06:13 AM.

  2. #2
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    VIDEO #Canada provided blast shielding films for hospitals in #Mariupol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr59nUAHNp4 … pic.twitter.com/2gnkgNTLdA

    BARBARISM A Russia-Hybrid-DPR soldiers receives a public punishment near Krasnyi Partyzan.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olt3Xdo21E0 … pic.twitter.com/IS90ziLeUN

    Ukrainians capture heavily wounded Russian-DPR fighter and although angry with him immediately give medical help. https://twitter.com/raging545/status/613814513125732353

    In Sector M beside #Shyrokyno, russians shelled also @Talakivka w 152-mm howitzers and #Berdyanske with 122-mm artillery.

    Putin send another "aidconvoy" to #Donbas https://twitter.com/StopRussia2014/s...19991562276864

    Donetsk 6:21AM
    "Leninskyi, Citi, Kritiy, Arena quiet.
    Could not sleep from 3AM-4:30AM, heavy outgoing volleys" https://twitter.com/vladicvp/status/613909873898749952

    Donetsk 1:25AM
    Budionovskyi ds - ruscists on some tracked equipment woke up half district with the roar https://twitter.com/UrriKara4en/stat...35620176265216

    Donetsk 2:01AM
    Kalininskyi ds - again hearing volleys https://twitter.com/Donetsk_Ukraine/...45748438974464

    Russians shelled Ukr positions w 152-mm artillery & GRADs, then tried to come close to Ukr positions, attack repelled http://www.ukrinform.ua/ukr/news/boy...kinomu_2067777

    Russian army "#Donetsk corps".
    Looks like russian soldiers favorite vacation destination is #Ukraine. https://twitter.com/BuTaJIu4eK/statu...43913871769600
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-25-2015 at 06:19 AM.

  3. #3
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    Another Russian Spetsnaz team identified inside the Ukraine—social media has a thing now for Spetsnaz.

    Hidden b/c entire unit is fr #Russia ("DPR spetsnaz").Chief calls self "Olkhon" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yyH75Goyto … pic.twitter.com/8kRR9uZGkh

    [B]News
    Russian forces tried to advance in #Shyrokyne under Msta-B and BM-21 fire last night but were repelled.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-25-2015 at 06:32 AM.

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    See pro-Russian propaganda TV exploit the suffering of Ukrainians in #Donbas.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXI0mVq2Rtc
    pic.twitter.com/5aGn3ysViX

    Russia’s top 140 lies about Ukraine http://exm.nr/1J6M1OO pic.twitter.com/E6xzX7HqqC

    several million euros" > @laracchi: France freezes funds in Russian #Magnitsky probe http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0P42OO20150624

    Ukraine prepares to cancel Khmelnitski Nuclear agreement with #Russia http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NN...406201501.html

  5. #5
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    http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.de/...ukrainian.html

    Wednesday, June 24, 2015

    Moscow Patriarchate’s Loss of Ukrainian Churches Will Render ‘Russian World’ Idea a Purely Militant Nationalism, Falikov Says

    Paul Goble

    Staunton, June 24 – The Moscow Patriarchate’s looming loss of control over bishoprics and congregations in Ukraine to a new autocephalous Ukrainian Orthodox Church will deprive Vladimir Putin’s “Russian world” idea of any religious content and transform it into little more than an aggressive form of nationalism, according to Boris Falikov.

    In the course of a wide-ranging interview to TV-2 in Tomsk recently, Boris Falikov, a leading specialist on religion at the Russian State Humanities University, says that if as appears likely the Russian Orthodox Church “loses Ukraine and the Ukrainian church, it will cease to be the largest Orthodox church” (religiopolis.org/religiovedenie/9172-boris-falikov-tomsk.html).

    That will be “a blow” to Patriarch Kirill and his hierarchy, but it will have a broader meaning for Russia as well: “The idea of ‘a Russian world’ has been converted from a theological to an ideological concept already” and is on its way to becoming part of a militant, irredentist ideology.”

    Consequently, any possibility that the Russian Church will be in a position to restrain the Russian state will be lost – up to now, Falikov suggests, the Church has a vital interest in not doing anything that will lead to the loss of its control over bishoprics and parishes abroad – and that will open the door to even greater dangers ahead.

    Falikov’s comments on this outcome come in the course of his discussion of the misuse of the word “secularization” in the Russian context. As he notes, many, including himself, call what is occurring in Russia “the clericalization of society, but this term has been borrowed from the Catholics and requires clarification when applied to Russia.”

    What is happening in Russia now, he argues, is different from and worse than clericalization in the usual sense: it is a combination of the state with the church in ways that “will not lead to anything good either for the state or for the church.” The reason for that is that the third element usually present in other countries – a civil society – is absent in Russia.

    The Soviet state did not create a civil society, Falikov argues. Instead, it statified all social groups and formed what many from Sergey Bulgakov on have called a pseudo-religion on its own. That harmed both the church and the state, and when that state fell, many hoped for the emergence of a civil society of which religion could be a part.

    But that process proved stillborn, and now the state is combing with the church in ways that again threaten both, leading the first to take on the millenarian aspects of the latter and leaving the church without the independence that any religious organization needs in order to fulfill its various missions, including speaking truth to power.”

    Falikov’s specific words on this point are critically important. “A secular society did not appear [in Russia], he writes. That is, “there did not appear a normal relationship of citizens to religious processes and as a result a clutch of problems arose. As before there are two protagnoists: the church and the state.”

    “But there is no triangle: there is no secular society.” And it is precisely where all three exist as they do in Western countries that “allows for the balancing of these processes.” In Russia, with one of the three lacking, the entire situation is heading into “a dead end,” out of which, Falikov says, he sees no prospects for emerging unscathed.

    According to Falikov, the Moscow Orthodox Church itself is itself not interested in what people now call secularization. “This conditional clericalization is occurring as a result of the efforts of the state, otherwise it would not ever have happened. And the state is using it in its own absolutely pragmatic goals.”

    The current Russian regime needs the power of the church “as one of the sources of its legitimation. That is, it uses the power of the church” in such a way that “the church in this sense is not even an independent player,” something that cannot be lost on as canny a politician as Patriarch Kirill.

    The church hierarch, Falikov says, can certainly see that he and his church are being used as “part of the ideology of the current regime,” an ideology which includes “irredentism” as in Ukraine and thus one which “the church does not particularly need.” Indeed, one that will end by harming the Russian Church.

    In the current Russian government ideology which combines “isolationism and nationalism,” there is room for Orthodoxy to play a certain role, but by itself, it is not needed, and the state takes only what it requires … This is a very curious thing,” and one, Falikov continues, that the current generation of church hierarchs, “don’t know” how to react.

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    Reference the shot down of MH17---

    #MH17 Experts from #Holland are taking soil samples (for rocket fuel?) South of Snizhne to identify BUK launch site https://youtu.be/qwizOTI_8o8

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    This is an inherent problem that was actually and knowingly supported by Russia.

    At the beginning of the fighting Russia "suggested to the Ukraine" to setup a JCCC--joint center of composed of Ukrainian and Russian Generals and their staffs in order to facilitate negotiations between the so called "separatists" and the UA.

    There has never been a single day of "negotiations" conducted by the Russians--the JCCC gives the Russian General a free reign in travelling throughout the fighting areas and he can see both sides.

    AND I seriously doubt he is not talking via a secure line to the same Russian General Staff is that conducting the military actions inside the Ukraine.

    The JCCC needs to be shut down in order to take a Russian military advantage away from them.

    Col-Gen Lentsov was in Moscow 20 June, yes for graduation ceremony, but also for meetings with Russian General Staff pic.twitter.com/utve8tJbPr

    BTW he wears a dual hat--he is also at the same time the Joint Commander for the CSTO Rapid Deployment Forces ie "peacekeeping forces".

    So any SWJ commenter willing to state this Russian General is "totally neutral"?????

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    EU/NATO make public plans to counter Russian propaganda and THEN we get this response from the Russian Foreign Minister.


    MFA Russia ✔ @mfa_russia
    #EU violates the right to freedom of speech, forming conditions for total discrimination against Russian media http://tass.ru/en/russia/803709


    EU violates right to freedom of speech — Russian Foreign Ministry

    Russia
    June 24, 21:33 UTC+3

    Mogherini's proposals on the development of a ‘strategy to counter the Kremlin’s propaganda’ is clearly aimed to oust Russian presence in the international media environment, the ministry says



    This is now the third propaganda concept Russia is now employing;
    1. the 4Ds and 2Ds
    2. the reverse flip meaning I say you are doing something first then I actually do what I claim you are doing

    NOW--the next concept---I can do things BUT then demand you cannot do them.
    One of the major myths that Russia just keeps on repeating is that a junta threw out the previous Ukrainian President --supported naturally by the US and the CIA--

    BUT Russia seems to "forget this one minor detail"----

    "virtually everything that happened during the final days of the Maidan was in accordance with the Ukrainian constitution

    AND totally supported by even the political party of the then President--Party of Regions.

    The second myth Russia keeps talking about is the EU Association Treaty which they claim is aimed at damaging the Russian economy---

    BUT what they do not say is that the EU crafted the agreement to fully incorporate the current Ukrainian Russian trade agreements thus not designed to damage Russia in anyway.

    THAT is why when Russia submitted their proposed changes to the Association Treaty the EU Commission simply rejected it and told Russia to not come back with any suggested changes.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-25-2015 at 12:29 PM.

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