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Thread: Ukraine: Russo-Ukr War (June-December 2015)

  1. #2021
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    My ongoing DAY count of the non response by MSM on two stories carried mainly by social media and totally ignored by western mainstream media (MSM).

    NOW --going on SIX days ago the Ukrainian State Security Service data dumped a massive amount of Russian military information pertaining to their being inside the Ukraine and this so called separatist mercenary army was depicted as being a strictly Russian organized, supplied and led Russian hybrid army complete with numbers, locations and info on six Russian generals who are leading this Russia army.

    VAST amount of this information comes directly from the SBU SIGINT side, their own agents and the Ukrainian SF.

    COMPLETE and TOTAL silence on the part of the western MSM.

    Now that is just how effective someone in the US is at controlling and dictating what goes into your mainstream media for so called "news"--one has to ask does the complete western MSM actually work for and support the Russian informational war being carried out against the West???

    A valid question.

    John Schindler @20committee
    BREAKING: Get a close look at Russia's occupying army in SE #Ukraine. These aren't "rebels", they're Putin's military
    http://20committee.com/2015/08/28/ru...-in-ukraine-2/

  2. #2022
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    THIS is the second article that has not gained traction in the MSM with the exception of a few western journalists declaring it a fake right along with the Russian super info warfare Russia Today.

    Forbes was about the only MSM that picked up on it.

    In the meantime the for a fake and against a fake debate is still ongoing.

    Yesterday a local Russian independent investigative journalist who had released an article on three disappeared Spetsnaz soldiers came out and declared it a fake for a number of reasons.

    Then the Ukrainian "The Interpreter Magazine" carried his research work but in the end admitted that he had not really answered the core question--is the number of KIAs actually correct??

    WHAT was interesting is that a major Russian Military Mothers' Group carries a total of over 500 KIAs and over 300 MIAs BEFORE they were forced by the FSB and the new Russian law to stop their research and to stop contacting military families.

    BUT since both the Russian blogger and the Mother's Group received visits by the FSB they both have been silent.

    So it does not surprise me that this blogger suddenly goes "full in" as a government supporter in order to stay out of jail--especially under the new Russian law on not reporting death numbers during peacetime.

    WHAT this Russian blogger and the rest of MSM has somehow totally missed has been the correctly geo tagged and dated imagery of a massive military grave yard near Rostov containing over 1200 graves backed by two released and geo tagged burial videos AND the verified OSCE reporting of 21 Russian +200 (meaning carrying Russian KIAs) that had recently crossed back into Russia heading to Rostov--that estimated number could haven as low as 400 and as high as 1000.

    NOTHING at all on the social media imagery and OSCE information was mentioned at all in this so called "faked report".

    IMO this is what led to the The Interpreter hedging their comments on the so called fake story as they indicated there had been a series of social media reports actually reinforcing the so called leaked article that had been to a major degree verified.

    AGAIN though not a single MSM journalist and or media outlet showed any interest in doing further research and or fact checking.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-01-2015 at 08:11 AM.

  3. #2023
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    BREAKING--Ceasefire is being broken

    Selydove 11:03AM
    Incoming towards #Karlivka
    https://twitter.com/rechnikato/statu...23314177605632

    Have to wait to see if there are further artillery strikes or is this a frustrated mercenary gun crew letting off steam about their abject failure in this last slow stepped Russian offensive.

  4. #2024
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    NOTICE now just how the Russian informational warfare is suddenly being used in Syria to justify attacking any resistance group in Syria that is fighting against Assad BY placing them in the IS box.

    AND it is now the main Russian FP to rescue Assad using the US-----as a “partner in their fight against IS—suddenly Russia is the leading IS fighting nation BUT still supplies wepons,GRU, bombs and fighters to Assad.

    Life News continues to (presumably deliberately, as it's not that hard) conflate every group in #Syria with #IS pic.twitter.com/qu26G098QZ

  5. #2025
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    Reference the grenade throwing yesterday in Kyiv---

    Sich battalion commander confirms grenade thrower in Kyiv was one of his fighters
    http://www.unian.info/society/111738...-fighters.html

    Sich battalion says the grenade attack suspect (who's their operative) had filed a resignation prior to the tragedy. pic.twitter.com/I1s1ZbssUC

    Sich is a police special forces unit---probably an proRussian recruited by FSB when all is said and done.

  6. #2026
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    Is this the Ukrainian loop hole to give the Russian occupied zones veto rights over anything the Ukraine does ie the Bosnian model that Putin is pushing as his "federalization plan"????

    Ukraine decentralisation bill: "cross-border cooperation with local authorities of Russian border communities" must also be clearly defined

  7. #2027
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    BREAKING--Ceasefire is being broken

    Selydove 11:03AM
    Incoming towards #Karlivka
    https://twitter.com/rechnikato/statu...23314177605632

    Have to wait to see if there are further artillery strikes or is this a frustrated mercenary gun crew letting off steam about their abject failure in this last slow stepped Russian offensive.

    Reports of shelling in and around Donetsk this morning


    Deliberate shellings--not frustration

    Donetsk, clear incomings in Peski, approx 11:20 https://twitter.com/HuAdvokatos/stat...27463099207680

    BreakingNews
    Russian forces from #Donetsk's northern districts are shelling Ukrainian troops near the airport & in #Pisky with artillery.


    Donetsk 11:36AM
    Serious volleys, airport area or Kuybyshevskyi district https://twitter.com/KalinaiMalina/st...31506450251776

    I hear shot and immediate landing from Donetsk center, smoke in East direction" "this is either Southor East" 11:22 https://twitter.com/666_mancer/statu...29081353977856
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-01-2015 at 09:37 AM.

  8. #2028
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    FURTHER EVIDENCE OF RUSSIAN TROOPS IN THE UKRAINE----THEY WOULD NEVER TURN OVER A COMINT FACILITY TO THE MERCENARIES---

    The new Russian COMINT complex THORN spotted close to Donetsk airport - via @InformNapalm
    https://translate.google.com.ua/tran...ap&prev=search … pic.twitter.com/XeG9lIVpSp

  9. #2029
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    MFA Russia ✔ @mfa_russia
    #Lavrov:We must get down to restoring order in international relations based on the principles of equality, mutual respect, non-interference.

    In Russian Orwellian doublespeak this means ---

    We want you the US to respect us as a superpower equal to you and we want you the US to let us define our own "spheres of influence" and THEN do what we want in those "spheres of influence" WITHOUT a word from you.

    The sooner Obama and his NSC all 700 of it's members realize this the sooner they can formulate a response as this is the exact wording repeated now in two days by the Russian MFA.

  10. #2030
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Reports of shelling in and around Donetsk this morning


    Deliberate shellings--not frustration

    Donetsk, clear incomings in Peski, approx 11:20 https://twitter.com/HuAdvokatos/stat...27463099207680

    BreakingNews
    Russian forces from #Donetsk's northern districts are shelling Ukrainian troops near the airport & in #Pisky with artillery.


    Donetsk 11:36AM
    Serious volleys, airport area or Kuybyshevskyi district https://twitter.com/KalinaiMalina/st...31506450251776

    I hear shot and immediate landing from Donetsk center, smoke in East direction" "this is either Southor East" 11:22 https://twitter.com/666_mancer/statu...29081353977856
    TRUCE HAS ENDED---

    Donetsk 11:22AM
    The truce ended. In Donetsk you hear explosions from something heavy. https://twitter.com/liya2905/status/638627913026416640

    I knew the Russian military would not end this thread.

    This is just how mixed up the current Russian military and her mercenaries are today---this comment from the DNR flies in the face now of the shellings which have started up again.

    Today's statement from DNR. pic.twitter.com/8PE4Rq9J8r

    BUT remember the DNR "defense minister stated a week ago a ceasefire is 30 attacks a day so maybe they are working up to 30 from the lows the last few days.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-01-2015 at 09:48 AM.

  11. #2031
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    Map. Situation in eastern #Ukraine, September 1, 2015, 00:00 EET pic.twitter.com/JFfumXR04U

    Moscow using non-Slavic soldiers in #Donbas war to prevent Russian-Ukrainian fraternization:
    http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/08/3...raternization/ … pic.twitter.com/Vi3jIauBxC

    Especially after their heavy loses in August 2014--the non Slavic troops were used initially in the Debaltseve attacks and takeover.

    Ukraine's decentralization and Donbas "special status": what you need to know http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/09/0...-need-to-know/ … via @EuromaidanPress 1 Sept

  12. #2032
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    http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/09/0...-need-to-know/

    Ukraine’s decentralization and Donbas “special status”: what you need to know

    2015/09/01

    On Monday, August 31, clashes erupted at a protest against decentralization law outside Ukraine’s parliament. Key opposition figures and parliamentary coalition parties protested the reform, claiming it would legalize Kremlin’s proxies in Ukraine. Experts admit Poroshenko’s administration failed to convey the true meaning of this reform to the public. This, in turn, lead to politicians capitalizing on the ensuing uncertainty, which culminated with 1 dead and over 100 wounded (mostly policemen due to a grenade attack at the Rada).

    We looked through the decentralization laws to find out what they really mean.

    Origins

    Since independence Ukraine has suffered from the Soviet legacy of an extremely centralized system. The concentration of power and finances in the capital allowed for institutionalized corruption, perhaps best symbolized by Yanukovych’s Mezhihirya residence. Decentralization has been among the demands of Maidan protestors who ultimately toppled Yanukovych’s regime. You can read on the origins of decentralization in more detail here.

    Decentralization is included as a requirement from Ukraine set in the Minsk agreement signed by Ukraine, Russia and its proxies in February this year. Under its provisions, Ukraine must adopt constitutional reform taking into account the specifics of Donbas regions.

    The reform

    On July 16, Ukraine’s parliament put the presidential administration’s decentralization bill on the agenda and sent it to the Constitutional court for approval. On July 31 it was OK’ed by the CC. A month later, it passed the 1st hearing with a majority of 265 (with 300 needed for the bill to pass second hearing).

    The reform’s proponents point out it is shifting more power from Kyiv to the local communities. The draft law organizes local governments into three tiers: from the community (“hromada”) to county (“raion”) to region. In lieu of powerful presidential-appointed regional governors, it introduces prefects for regions and counties which are tasked with coordinating local and state authorities and controlling the legality of county and regional councils’ decrees.

    The constitutional amendments define local council powers in pretty broad strokes, most prominent being levying local taxes and defining economic and social policies of their constituents. Other important things include local referendums on key issues of the community and a guarantee that any increase in local powers would be followed with an increase of local budget.

    Experts believe the law in its current form leaves loopholes for abusing of power by the President and presidential-appointed prefects (such as annulling decrees by local councils or dissolving them altogether upon a court decision). However, the reform’s proponents (including Poroshenko himself) praise the reform as a shift of power to local communities.

    The point of contention

    According to the draft, the new constitution would explicitly provide for special status of only its capital, Kyiv. However, the most controversial line of the constitutional amendment is article 18 of the “Transitional Provisions”, which says the following:


    “The specifics of executing local governance in certain counties of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions are defined by a separate law”

    Poroshenko insists this is in no way a “special status” provision and part of Ukraine’ obligations under Minsk agreements (which, according to the administration, Ukraine adheres to while Russia and its proxies do not). Critics of the Minsk agreements say that this provision was imposed on Ukraine by outside forces and constitutes capitulation before Russia’s invasion and legitimizing the Donbas “republics.” An appeal by Ukrainian intellectuals to the President stresses that the reform constitures “geopolitical subordination to the dictates of Russia.” Ian Bond, the director of foreign policy at the Center for European Reform, claims that Russia’s participation in the negotiation process invalidates the outcome, and that instead of pressuring Ukraine, the West should be helping Ukraine defend itself.

    Some ground for those claims may be seen in the “separate law.”

    The “Special status law”

    The bill “On the special order of local governance in certain counties of Donetsk and Luhansk regions” was passed by the Ukrainian (Yanukovych-era) parliament on September 16, hot on the heels of the first Minsk agreement. It covers the territories currently occupied by Russian hybrid troops.

    The law understandably caused trouble with Ukrainian patriotic opposition due to such provisions as a broad amnesty to “participants of the events in Donetsk and Luhansk regions.” It is unclear how far this amnesty would stretch and if “events” include murder and acts of terror committed by the militants.

    Other controversial provisions are the extended status of Russian language as well as cross-border cooperation with local authorities of Russian border communities. Another point of content is the provision for “local militia units” created by local councils. On one hand, this sure looks like legitimizing DNR and LNR terrorists. On the other hand, a “militia” member should be a citizen of Ukraine and a resident of the community in question, meaning mercenaries from Russia wouldn’t be able to stay.

    In March 2015, after the so-called “Minsk II” which defined a road map towards peace in Ukraine, the “special governance” law was amended to the effect that most of its provisions would come into force only after local elections under Ukrainian law and monitored by international observers would take place. This angered the “rebels” and the Kremlin, ostensibly because it allowed for little to none Moscow control over occupied Donbas. A year after the law (itself limited by three years) was passed, the elections in question (that would have to include Ukrainian nationalist parties) are still to take place. Under Minsk agreement, the constitutional reform also comes after pulling out foreign troops from Donbas and return of border control to Ukraine.

    Bottom line
    •The decentralization reform proposed by Poroshenko’s administration has its merits and drawbacks.
    •The main controversy is the special law for Donbas counties’ governance provided for in the Constitution.
    •The law in question has controversial provisions like amnesty and “local militias” but will not come into effect before Ukrainian border control is restored, Russian troops pull out and elections under Ukrainian law take place. It is currently to remain in force for two more years
    •The administration claims the reform is in line with Maidan demands and Minsk agreement
    •The opposition believes the “special status law” amounts to capitulation before the Kremlin under international pressure

  13. #2033
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    MFA Russia ✔ @mfa_russia
    #Lavrov:We must get down to restoring order in international relations based on the principles of equality, mutual respect, non-interference.

    In Russian Orwellian doublespeak this means ---

    We want you the US to respect us as a superpower equal to you and we want you the US to let us define our own "spheres of influence" and THEN do what we want in those "spheres of influence" WITHOUT a word from you.

    The sooner Obama and his NSC all 700 of it's members realize this the sooner they can formulate a response as this is the exact wording repeated now in two days by the Russian MFA.
    Comment yesterday from a major Russian politician who is on the US travel sanctions list and was not allowed to travel to anything other than the UN holding meeting.

    Her venting as follows----

    Matvienko said the three-day conference is taking place at a time when there is a shift to "a multipolar world order," accompanied by "drastic crises and bloody conflicts, counter-revolutions and coup d'etats with horrendous humanitarian catastrophes."

    "The old model of a unipolar world order based on the domination by one power or a group of countries has been confined to the past," she said.

    But the U.S. and Western countries are making every effort to try to preserve it by openly pressuring other countries, "subjecting them to unilateral sanctions and using armed force against them."

    "As a result, terrorism and political extremism are raising their heads, entire regions are being plunged into chaos, holy sites are being destroyed, (and) women, old men and children are being killed," Matvienko said.

    "Nevertheless," she said, "a new model of the world is confidently making its way forward."


    Russia is trying hard to be recognized again as a superpower---they simply have not realized what it takes to become one and to stay one outside of military aggression against their neighbors and having nuclear weapons---that does not make a superpower.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-01-2015 at 10:13 AM.

  14. #2034
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    Two key elements to the Russian non linear warfare--informational warfare and cyber warfare and cyber crime.

    Russia hackers stole gigabytes of customer data from several US banks & financial companies http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs...-officials-say … pic.twitter.com/QT8IMqgMdI

  15. #2035
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    Horlivka: DNR "member of parliament" killed, body thrown to garbage. https://twitter.com/BylByleva/status/638739636727218176

    Voronezh Region: RU reservists mobilised at Boguchar, deployed to Talovsky District (1st Guards Tank Army) field camp pic.twitter.com/5yMv2fgiYg

    Ceasefire per Mbnsk 2 is no shooting anywhere----
    Today the situation in Donbas remained calm. 00:00-18:00 militants 4 times violated the ceasefire - ATO press center
    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...22&__tn__=%2As


    Still no really effective truce in Donetsk---
    Dokuchaevsk: from Yasne direction heavy booms of truce are heard.
    https://twitter.com/shuttle1907/stat...46984703225856

    Some truce--even OSCE drone gets shot down---

    DPR insurgents shot down #OSCE UAV when it was flying over their territory near #Mariupol
    http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/179456 … pic.twitter.com/ku9LLOzCRr

  16. #2036
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    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...m-joining-nato

    The Bully to the East

    Russia is trying to scare Sweden and Finland away from joining NATO.
    Russian President Vladimir Putin addresses a joint session of Russian parliament on Crimea at the Kremlin in Moscow on March 18.

    Making threats.
    By Jorge Benitez
    Aug. 6, 2015 | 1:45 p.m. EDT

    Russia's ambassador to Sweden, Viktor Tatarintsev, recently warned Sweden that if it joined NATO, Russia would respond with "counter measures." Unfortunately, this was not an isolated threat. It is part of a pattern of earlier threats issued by senior Russian leaders to Sweden and Finland to bully them to comply with Moscow's wishes over their alliance choices. Stockholm and Helsinki must not underestimate these threats and should make more of an effort to deter Russia from carrying them out. Deterring Russia will require greater political attention to this problem and more defense capabilities against this unconventional military threat.

    Tatarintsev made it clear that these threats come directly from Russian President Vladimir Putin. The ambassador specifically warned that "Putin [himself] pointed out that there will be consequences," if Sweden or Finland try to join NATO. What kind of consequences are the Russians threatening? According to Tatarintsev, Russia's response will be "of the military kind." These threats are very troubling because Russia is being very explicit that if Sweden and Finland move closer to NATO membership, Russia's response will be a lot more dangerous than simple diplomatic criticism. Moscow has already demonstrated it is willing to overreact to misperceived threats to Russia's security.

    Just as Russia warned Georgia and Ukraine not to draw closer to NATO, senior Russian leaders have made several explicit and dangerous statements about the relationships between Finland and Sweden with NATO. During a visit to Helsinki in 2012, then Chief of the Russian General Staff General Nikolai Makarov issued the stark warning that "cooperation between Finland and NATO threatens Russia's security."

    Last year, one of Putin's advisors, Sergei Markov, made even more provocative comments. According to Markov, "Finland should think of the consequences, if it ponders joining NATO. It must ask could joining start World War III." Russian leaders want to let Finland know that if they choose NATO, they should not omit the possibility of another world war.

    It is tempting to hope that this negative behavior is limited to exaggerated rhetoric from Russian leaders, but unfortunately, it is also being manifested through a more aggressive and interventionist Russian military policy against Sweden and Finland. The simulated attack trajectory of Russian bombers against Stockholm during the Easter weekend of 2013 was not an isolated case. According to Swedish defense minister Peter Hultqvist, "It's a general fact that Russia is carrying out bigger, more complex, and in some cases more provocative and defiant, exercises."

    There are also the recent cases of mysterious submarines violating both Swedish and Finnish territorial waters. In addition, Russia announced in January a large expansion of a military base 50 kilometers from the Finnish border. Moscow says it is turning this into a major base for its operations in the area and plans to build 14 airfields in this facility. It is hard to see how building so much military infrastructure can serve a defensive purpose.

    Regrettably, the leaders of Sweden, Finland, and NATO have chosen to downplay all this evidence, even though the Russian foreign ministry has stated explicitly that its "greatest concern is over the increasingly strong convergence of Finland and Sweden with NATO."

    As occurred in Crimea and Donbas, Russia will probably not wage a conventional war of conquest against Sweden or Finland. Putin is more likely to combine hybrid warfare backed by conventional military superiority to seize just enough Swedish or Finnish territory to create a new frozen conflict and make it politically impossible for either to gain NATO membership. Also, the smaller the amount of territory taken by Russia, the harder it will be for the Swedish and Finnish governments to justify full scale warfare to regain them.

    Just as it did when it invaded Ukraine, Russia will unleash its propaganda tsunami to confuse international opinion with fabricated tales of how it was wronged by the target country, of lies by the West, and ludicrous denials of the full extent of its military aggression. This new campaign will not only misinform the public and the media, but also give sufficient excuse to delay a response and to divide decision makers in Stockholm, Helsinki and the NATO capitals.

    Putin's willingness to cross lines and take unnecessary risks has already surprised Western leaders multiple times; take, for instance, the cyberattack against Estonia in 2007, the war against Georgia in 2008 and last year's invasion of Ukraine. Finland and Sweden must not be surprised if Putin intervenes to stop them from joining NATO membership. The leaders in Helsinki and Stockholm must increase their national deterrence against this contingency. Some important steps have been taken (such as incremental increases in defense spending, assignments to reserve forces and acquisition of new military capabilities), but they are not sufficient and fall short of the defense capabilities requested by Swedish and Finnish military leaders. Finland's recently announced plans to reform its Army rapid response units and to re-examine the defense of the Aland islands are a good examples of the type of steps that need to be taken to improve operational readiness and deterrence.

    The decision to apply for NATO membership belongs solely to the people of Finland and Sweden. They should be able to make that decision without military threats from Russia. As popular support grows in Finland and Sweden to discuss the merits of joining NATO, Helsinki and Stockholm should also take precautions to deter Russia from trying to take that choice away from them.

  17. #2037
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...m-joining-nato

    The Bully to the East

    Russia is trying to scare Sweden and Finland away from joining NATO.
    Russian President Vladimir Putin addresses a joint session of Russian parliament on Crimea at the Kremlin in Moscow on March 18.

    Making threats.
    By Jorge Benitez
    Aug. 6, 2015 | 1:45 p.m. EDT
    @carlbildt

    Center Party in Sweden coming out in favor of NATO membership is a major development. Neutrality was in the old world part of its DNA.

    Leaders of #Sweden Center Party: "non-alliance risks becoming a security risk rather than offering safety" #NATO http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs...ership-in-nato

    In significant U-turn, leaders of Center Party will recommend at the party's next conference that Sweden join NATO http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs...ership-in-nato
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-01-2015 at 05:31 PM.

  18. #2038
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    Russian (hybrid) forces, Starobesheve District, Donetsk Region, Ukraine 31 Aug (via @GirkinGirkin) pic.twitter.com/KA79Z9PbZN

    29.08.15 #Donetsk oblast #Oleksandrivka Terrorists' positions https://youtu.be/ybdo8zHYDH0 HD: http://img.ly/Cv6a pic.twitter.com/KVfUcMsQ9v

    ATO Staff Spokesperson: Militants violate ceasefire 72 times over the last four days http://uacrisis.org/32560-rechnik-shtabu-ato-42 … pic.twitter.com/UoCegGkRaB
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-01-2015 at 05:47 PM.

  19. #2039
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    The German newspaper Bild is reporting today that Russia is planning now to conduct a referendum on the joining of their occuppied zones into Russia proper ie annexation.

    If that does happen what then will Obamas respnse be--silence.

    ARTIKEL @BILD Russischer Bericht: Kreml plant Anschluss-Referendum im Donbass http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/u...5998.bild.html … pic.twitter.com/ZBdvkssivq

    There had been some social media comments a few days ago about it but not much else.

    BreakingReport Kremlin sources: #LPR,#DPR plan to hold referendum to join #Russia not later than November this year. http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/2015/0..._7731551.shtml
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 09-01-2015 at 07:03 PM.

  20. #2040
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    A lot of armor movement reports for Donetsk. is something new in cards? i don't know...

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