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Thread: Ukraine: Russo-Ukr War (June-December 2015)

  1. #1201
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    http://tass.ru/en/russia/811865

    Russia
    July 31, 13:04 UTC+3

    Ramzan Kadyrov called the volunteers that participated in combat actions in Ukraine "hooligans"
    Chechnya's leader says all Chechen volunteers returned home from Donbas


    GROZNY, July 31. /TASS/. All Chechen volunteers who have fought on the side of the militias [of the self-proclaimed DPR and LPR republics] in the [Ukrainian eastern region of] Donbas have returned home, head of the Republic of Chechnya Ramzan Kadyrov said on Friday, calling them "hooligans."

    "Everybody says that there are Chechen volunteers there [in Donbas]. When the ceasefire agreement was reached there, we invited all our volunteers home. We have taken home the hooligans that were there. So, none of them should now be present there," Kadyrov is quoted by his press service.

    He also said that Russia is not involved in the conflict in the southeast of Ukraine, adding that had it really been involved, Kiev would have long ago felt it.

    "Had, as they say, Russia participated in this, they would have long felt it," said the head of Chechnya.

    Kadyrov said previously he did not know how many Chechen volunteers were fighting in the southeast of Ukraine.
    NOTE: this is an interesting PR for two reasons--1) he had announced a number of months ago that the Chechen volunteers were pulling out--evidently not the case.,and 2) he is apparently not in tune with the fact that a fully active officer (MAJ) of the RF regular army was captured inside the Ukraine.

    It should be noted that the Chechens were the single largest ethnic Russian group fighting in eastern Ukraine--now pulling out is interesting.

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    Kremlin announced the "asymmetric response" to US sanctions
    Hmm. What Russian technologies used by United States? https://twitter.com/rbc_ukraine/stat...73243728465921

    Russian army military intel UAV (drone) used in Russian-occupied Donbas 29 Jul https://youtu.be/Grk7mC3vS_I
    Looks like another Aileron-3SV.

    Border Patrol: 10 UAV flights recorded in Donbas [within last 24hr] @DPSU_ua

    Crimea: RUS D-30 howitzer 7km away from #Kherson region @erranta2_andrij pic.twitter.com/NKXK9AsnGz

    Karlo-Marksove (village next to Enakieve) - DNR train ground was shelled, DNR tents destroyed, BM21 Grad destroyed, 8 rumored to be KIA.

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    Lost Russian forces in Ukraine train Putin's proxies to use a modern Russian ATGM system:
    https://translate.google.com/transla...13m&edit-text= … pic.twitter.com/uYi2HOWIHE
    pic.twitter.com/rVFHgrlDhX

    3000+ Russian mechanised infantry & 400+ artillery offensive exercises, Orenburg region 31 Jul http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150731/1155837968.html … pic.twitter.com/IoNb0Sl1cL

    Acc. to gen. Reshetnikov (Russian Inst4SS), existing borders in the Balkans are artificial, and thus only temporary. http://www.novosti.rs/vesti/naslovna...WMpprs.twitter

    Russian Western MD mechanised infantry (Leningrad reg) drivers began water-obstacle training https://defencerussia.wordpress.com/...mbat-vehicles/ … pic.twitter.com/wUAF9y9QIq

    Latest,30/07: SMM conducted crater analysis in #Donetsk & #Luhansk reg.,SMM patrol threatened by “DPR” E of #Mariupol http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/175591

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    http://www.neweasterneurope.eu/artic...-into-a-corner

    Has Putin Painted Russia into a Corner?

    Published on Friday, 31 July 2015 07:37
    Written by Sijbren de Jong

    Around a year and a half ago Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the annexation of Crimea. Whereas the takeover of the Ukrainian peninsula proceeded swiftly and without major difficulties, the ensuing conflict in eastern Ukraine has proven much more difficult to contain. Although by waging its clandestine war, Moscow succeeded in thwarting Ukraine’s ambitions to integrate westwards – for now at least – Russia has been unable to limit the fallout for itself. Rattled by sanctions, amplified by a catastrophic collapse in the price of oil, the prospects for the Russian economy look decidedly bleak. Seemingly undeterred by this perfect storm, Russia’s President looks set to continue on this course. In doing so, Putin may have maneuvered himself into a corner from where there is no escape.

    With hydrocarbon revenues comprising over 50 per cent of the state budget, the collapse of the price of oil from its June 2014 high of $115 to around $56 today has thoroughly ransacked Russia’s economy. According to ING Bank, Russia needs oil at $80 per barrel to balance its budget. If prices remain at roughly $60 through next year the country will endure a two-year economic contraction. What’s more, the prospect of Iran coming out of its isolation and seeking to ramp up its oil production is likely to depress prices even further. The oil price tumbled immediately after the deal on Iran’s nuclear program was announced. It may time some time and a heavy dose of investments, but Iranian oil will make its way back onto the world market. And when that happens, Putin will bear the brunt of it. When sanctions caused Iran’s oil output to decline Russia eagerly stepped in owing to the similarity of bothcountries' chief export blends. An increase in globally available volumes of oil gives OPEC and Russia two devilish choices: either continue the ongoing price war, or collude and attempt to agree a reduction in production. Both strategies carry costs and risks, and there is no silver bullet.

    Further compounding Putin’s problems is the fact that Russian regional governments’ debt grew by as much as 78 per cent in three years through 2014. Back in 2012 when there were large anti-government protests in Moscow, Putin set out plans to increase spending on healthcare, education and social services. That decision effectively doubled the debt load of Russia’s regions. The risk of a large region going bust is increasing, thus raising the risk of bailouts on an already heavily strained federal budget. Factor in the oil price collapse and the massive military spending that Putin refuses to let go, and it becomes clear that the government cannot come to the rescue indefinitely.

    A way out of from under the sanctions would be the full implementation of the Minsk accord that was agreed in February 2015 between the leaders of Ukraine, Russia, France and Germany. Although Ukraine’s parliament recently approved constitutional changes that shift power from Kiev to regional governments, a measure demanded under the agreement, separatist leaders were quick to reject the initiative. According to Denis Pushilin, one of the representatives from the Donetsk-based separatists, the proposals did not grant the regions sufficient autonomy. What’s more, with violations of the cease-fire being recorded almost daily, it looks highly unlikely that the Minsk agreement will be fulfilled before the end of the year.

    With Minsk not being implemented, this opens the door to a new round of sanctions. The US government seems to be preparing for exactly that. On July 18th, reports emerged that Washington stands ready to cut off western credit to Russia if Putin fails to deliver. Under the existing sanctions, some Russian companies can borrow for a maximum of 30 days compared with normal deals that last several years. Under the new proposals, this period could be shortened to as little as a few days. In effect that means that the oligarchs in Putin’s inner circle would have to renew credit deals on a weekly basis, thereby effectively annihilating any hope of their businesses securing long-term funding on western markets. Whereas Europe has so far refrained from blocking Russian access to the SWIFT inter-bank clearing system, as it is considered to be the ‘nuclear option’, the American proposals could very well amount to a tactical nuclear strike.

    With no signs of backing down, Putin has maneuvered himself into a major predicament. He cannot play nice over Ukraine and push for sanctions relief as this would fatally expose the lies fanned out by the Kremlin’s relentless propaganda machine. Alternatively, continuing down the same path will almost certainly push the Russian economy even further into the ground and anger powerful people within the Russian business elite. Vladimir Putin has decided to play a dangerous game of geopolitical ice hockey where any decision he now takes is tantamount to scoring an own goal.

    Sijbren de Jong, PhD, is a Strategic Analyst at the Hague Centre for Strategic Studies (HCSS) in The Netherlands, specialised in Eurasian energy security.

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    The 2nd Spetsnaz Brigade in the Mariupol Area: https://en.informnapalm.org/the-2nd-...mariupol-area/ … via @en_informnapalm pic.twitter.com/QxnilLdpDW

    Russia is no longer able to produce An-140 aircraft because of sanctions of Ukraine ... https://twitter.com/EspresoTV/status/627165315064053760

    Latitude 67N SIGINT @uascan
    RUAF strategic air force (Tu22/Tu95/Tu160) sw net up with voice traffic. Bears, Backfires or Blackjacks flying?

    OSCE SMM patrol leaves village of Oktiabr after being threatened by DPR representative http://24today.net/open/488689 pic.twitter.com/c668A1vpHM

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    Judging from recent reports, Russian (hybrid DPR/LPR) forces are creating "no go" areas for #OSCE_SMM.


    Why? To hide deployments/preparations

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    If one takes the average attack numbers of the intensive shellings and constant ground attacks we are activity now in the actual third war phase and no where close to a ceasefire.

    Actually one could even call it a "fighting ceasefire" if anything.


    Andriy Lysenko: Militants have violated the ceasefire 100 times over the past dayhttp://uacrisis.org/30293-ukrainian-...za-minulu-dobu

    19:09 #Horlivka @Miloviche North/northwest: heavy [weapons work] heard

    19:59 #Donetsk @PVB40 [fb] "I can hear explosions in #Pisky area, something heavy"

    19:50 #Horlivka @77bot1 Intense battle in the north in #Zaytseve area, "RUS are having regilar evening attack"

    20:07 #Pisky @AMykhailova It pounds. Small arms, AGL
    Peski, it's showtime. machineguns, AGLs.

    20:06 #Donetsk @PVB40 [fb] Gvardeyka, #Makeevka: heavy singles are audible from the northwest

    20:17 #Avdeevka @owl_ok Rumble

    20:04 #Makeevka @VasyaMakeevskiy Artillery volleys from Lisniy area, 4 tubes at least

    Makeevka @VasyaMakeevskiy
    20:10 Ceased (about 20 shots)
    20:18 Again shelling from the same place
    20:21 Intense fire ceased

    20:11 #Horlivka @77bot1 [Battle sounds] in Mayorsk area too

    Horlivka, loud.

    20:20 #Donetsk #Makeevka @nixer79 Strong arty volleys fr/the area north/north-eastward fr/Grigoriev ettles started, 3-4 tubes

    20:20 #Maryinka @hyeva_maryinka [vk] Quiet as before. Mine shaft dir'n: sporadic shooting, #Krasnohorivka dir'n:massive booms

    Donetsk-Makeevka border, something heavy, outgoing

    20:45 #Avdeevka @bamr69 Impacts on #Opytne area. Heavy ones again

    DNR soc net community: "Artillery of DNR is ready to attack UA troops and waiting orders to free the Motherland". https://twitter.com/Realuran/status/627071541637959680

    @xuilolala incoming to Avdeevka.

    Peski - battle, Makeevka/Chervonogvardeyski st - shells Avdeevka, Horlivka - war action ongoing, landings

    Krasnogorivka/Staromikhailivka, Horlivka - ongoing battles
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-31-2015 at 07:09 PM.

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    Tymchuk: Russia is deploying more & more artillery, sending in more soldiers (non-Slavs), & intensifying the shelling of Ukrainian positions

    Read an advance report on fire support trends in the Russo-Ukraine conflict today. The trends are disturbing.

    UAS surveillance plus Russian thermobaric artillery rounds means that light infantry forces are either dug in or well done.

    Russians also use DPICM plus those thermobaric rounds. We'll soon have neither.

    In a combined DPICM/thermobaric fire mission from Russian MLRS lasting 3 minutes, two Ukrainian mechanized battalions were wiped out.

    Artillery is causing 85% (!) of casualties on both sides.

    you can cross Eastern Ukraine jumping through thermobaric ordnance and don't touch the ground

    This conflict is putting tactical development into hyperdrive. Increasing use of combined arms companies. US way behind.

    combined arms as a core competency has been neglected in defense focus for nearly 20 years

    Russia mastered loop from UAS to IDF. We haven't.

    C-RAM and C-UAS as much needed as longer range/superior performance artillery capabilities

    Russian losses of UAVs are staggering even for a "limited" conflict, if Ukrainians got better C-UAS systems that'll help a lot

    Russia is spreading artillery in battery size down to maneuver battalion level. Army concentrating it at division level. (DIVARTY)

    Smaller loop between maneuver and fires = faster, more responsive integration, which is vital.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-31-2015 at 07:31 PM.

  9. #1209
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    Jews from occupied by Russia-led terrorists eastern #Ukraine seek refuge from Russian invasion http://www.wsj.com/articles/debunkin...yth-1438285884

    youtube.com/watch?v=KmpCHreJnrI … 'All volunteers here,all unpaid.Everyone brings money here fr #Russia to help.'#LOL #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/Iu78K6vjXm

    Latitude 67N SIGINT @uascan
    @uascan RUAF strategic air forces sw marker W up :20

    Ponomarev (Russian MP, now in exile): Putin has several plans for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine ready & is now waiting for the right time

  10. #1210
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    If one takes the average attack numbers of the intensive shellings and constant ground attacks we are activity now in the actual third war phase and no where close to a ceasefire.

    Actually one could even call it a "fighting ceasefire" if anything.


    Andriy Lysenko: Militants have violated the ceasefire 100 times over the past dayhttp://uacrisis.org/30293-ukrainian-...za-minulu-dobu

    19:09 #Horlivka @Miloviche North/northwest: heavy [weapons work] heard

    19:59 #Donetsk @PVB40 [fb] "I can hear explosions in #Pisky area, something heavy"

    19:50 #Horlivka @77bot1 Intense battle in the north in #Zaytseve area, "RUS are having regilar evening attack"

    20:07 #Pisky @AMykhailova It pounds. Small arms, AGL
    Peski, it's showtime. machineguns, AGLs.

    20:06 #Donetsk @PVB40 [fb] Gvardeyka, #Makeevka: heavy singles are audible from the northwest

    20:17 #Avdeevka @owl_ok Rumble

    20:04 #Makeevka @VasyaMakeevskiy Artillery volleys from Lisniy area, 4 tubes at least

    Makeevka @VasyaMakeevskiy
    20:10 Ceased (about 20 shots)
    20:18 Again shelling from the same place
    20:21 Intense fire ceased

    20:11 #Horlivka @77bot1 [Battle sounds] in Mayorsk area too

    Horlivka, loud.

    20:20 #Donetsk #Makeevka @nixer79 Strong arty volleys fr/the area north/north-eastward fr/Grigoriev ettles started, 3-4 tubes

    20:20 #Maryinka @hyeva_maryinka [vk] Quiet as before. Mine shaft dir'n: sporadic shooting, #Krasnohorivka dir'n:massive booms

    Donetsk-Makeevka border, something heavy, outgoing

    20:45 #Avdeevka @bamr69 Impacts on #Opytne area. Heavy ones again

    DNR soc net community: "Artillery of DNR is ready to attack UA troops and waiting orders to free the Motherland". https://twitter.com/Realuran/status/627071541637959680

    @xuilolala incoming to Avdeevka.

    Peski - battle, Makeevka/Chervonogvardeyski st - shells Avdeevka, Horlivka - war action ongoing, landings

    Krasnogorivka/Staromikhailivka, Horlivka - ongoing battles
    Going from bad to worse tonight

    Krasnohorivka
    Ongoing battle, assault rifles, mortars

    Horlivka outskirts - 2 hours of combat


    22:17 #Kirovsk @kish_fish "Suspisious booms like incoming, I'm not sure"

    22:17 #Severodonetsk @DafterHius Heavy [booms]
    22:21 @smsboxnet1 Heard 2 times, didn't get what it was

    22:23 #Severodonetsk @DafterHius a couple times first, more a while after, reported on 29th CP area
    22:23 @smsboxnet1 [From #Kirovsk]

    22:16 @spirik_ An incoming. Karbonit [=Zolote]? Bakhmutka [road]?

    Donetsk 21:30
    At airport battle, first mortars, then small arms and artillery joined
    https://twitter.com/Gong_Ego/status/627201653964414976

    22:10 #Stanytsia_Luhanska @100007182042214 Again [shelling of S area]

    22:19 #Severodonetsk @xy_gorlov4an Distant heavy blasts. like in #Novotoshkivske
    @EvgenViktor The 2nd day in a row

    22:24 #Horlivka @ahab7822 Distant massive boom

    22:36
    #Mayorsk, #Zaitsevo at blockpost very close battle!
    https://twitter.com/dimetros7776/sta...01264468795394

    22:34 #Dzerzhynsk @dimetros7776 #Novhorodske: intense battle in Zalizne

    Horlivka; NW of Donetsk - military action, all sorts of machineguns, mortars and god knows what else. thankfully, no MLRS.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-31-2015 at 08:01 PM.

  11. #1211
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    The 2nd Spetsnaz Brigade in the Mariupol Area: https://en.informnapalm.org/the-2nd-...mariupol-area/ … via @en_informnapalm pic.twitter.com/QxnilLdpDW

    Russia is no longer able to produce An-140 aircraft because of sanctions of Ukraine ... https://twitter.com/EspresoTV/status/627165315064053760

    Latitude 67N SIGINT @uascan
    RUAF strategic air force (Tu22/Tu95/Tu160) sw net up with voice traffic. Bears, Backfires or Blackjacks flying?

    OSCE SMM patrol leaves village of Oktiabr after being threatened by DPR representative http://24today.net/open/488689 pic.twitter.com/c668A1vpHM
    Russian factory "Aviakor" suspended the production of AN-140 planes due to the lack of spares from Ukraine.

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    Full Moon tonight. And Donetsk, Pisky, Marinka, Horlivka, Stanitsa Luhanska, Mayorsk, Zaitsevo, Bakhmut road on fire https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/627204411119534080

    Nothing but heavy Russian artillery/mortar/MLRS strikes tonight used to cover tank and infantry attacks


    Do you know Ukrainian night? Oh, you know nothing about Ukrainian night. Moon looks at you from the middle of the sky"
    Gogol, 1829

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    I will today provide a comment on the continued "sell out of the Ukraine" by a US President far more interested in his legacy than actually resolving a major war ongoing in Central Europe after 2 years of "so called peace" after the collapse of the soviet Union.

    The actual core question is--is it really for his "legacy" or is he "appeasing Putin" in order to give him a saving face moment" AND is Putin actually playing this concept for his benefit of his expansionistic policies since 2006.

    The following two part article goes to the core of this "sell out by the US" WHO has for years declared the concepts of "rule of law, good governance and transparency" to be the core US VALUES".

    We all know US Presidents are always interested in their "legacy" BUT to watch a US President virtually "sell out" the very VALUES he keeps on stating are needed for the globe seems to be a massive contradiction. BUT is it not inherent in the job that at times "reality on the ground" demands a solution that in fact might just go against the "legacy'???

    Many say in the US the Ukraine does not impact us--it does as it calls into question the seriousness of the US intent to be a leading democratic country in times of international turmoil when many civil societies yearn to be "like our civil society" which in their eyes is "rule of law, good governance and a transparent government".

    YET in the Ukraine where these concepts were the driver of the Ukrainian civil society standing up and fighting for it on the "Maidan"--but again just how many in the US really know what the "Maidan" was all about--not many to include this President.

    Since his speech in Cairo at the beginning of his first term WHERE "he awoke" these VALUES and in fact they contributed greatly to the "Arab Springs and the colored revolts" which awoke the entire ME--he then "backed away"--ever wonder why???

    With the outbreak of Russian "aggression" and their total violations of international laws, international agreements and treaties dating back to Helsinki which set the stage for a peaceful Europe he was "aggressive with his words".

    Even in 2014 he said the following "stating we will judge Putin by his actions and not his words"--AND WHERE is he now with that statement??

    Notice he never refers to the Russian aggression in the Ukraine as an actual war--he never even uses the word aggressor.


    We have a major Russia "summer offensive" underway with an average of over 80 intensive artillery, mortar and MLRS shellings and intensive ground attacks A DAY using part of those 800 Russian supplied tanks.

    AND what do we get from the US President as a reply to this "Russian summer offensive".

    SILENCE.... is all and that is a massive embarrassment for a country who declares the VALUES of "the rule of law, good governance and government transparency" to be paramount for a civil society.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-01-2015 at 05:57 AM.

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    http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_...7#.VbxSHuoVhMt

    PART ONE:

    Elections in Ukraine’s Secessionist Territory: A Topic of International Negotiation (Part One)


    Publication: Eurasia Daily Monitor Volume: 12 Issue: 144

    July 31, 2015 03:25 PM Age: 9 hrs

    By: Vladimir Socor

    Ukraine is scheduled to hold local elections throughout the country (except the Russian-occupied territories) on October 25—the first such elections since the advent of a Western-oriented Ukrainian government.

    Under Ukrainian laws, passed in March (and corresponding with international law), elections of Ukraine may not be held in territories of Ukraine not controlled by the government of Ukraine but that are, instead, under the control of foreign military forces and the nominees of a foreign power (Rada.ua, March 17, 18).

    Moscow, Berlin, Paris and, apparently, Washington, however, are urging Kyiv to agree with the staging of local elections in “certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk provinces”—i.e., the Moscow-controlled Donetsk and Luhansk “people’s republics” (“DPR, LPR”). Russian and Western diplomats involved in this process may have reached consensus about the prerequisites to the holding of valid elections in this territory.

    Left unmentioned in this context are the evacuation of Russian forces and disarmament or demobilization of “DPR-LPR” troops and security services. Such measures are not being listed as prerequisites to holding valid elections. It seems, therefore, that elections would be held under the gun in this territory.

    The declared prerequisites (at this point) are, first, that elections in Donetsk-Luhansk should be deemed as part of Ukraine’s country-wide local elections, under Ukrainian law. And second, that the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) should prepare and observe the elections in that territory, in accordance with the OSCE’s standards. This implies, first, a wishful assumption that “DPR-LPR” could be made to appear as adhering to democratic standards; and second, that elections in Donetsk-Luhansk could be recognized as valid, if they are staged with Kyiv’s consent and simultaneously with local elections in the rest of Ukraine.

    That is a path toward legitimizing the Donetsk-Luhansk authorities and inserting them into Ukraine’s political and institutional system. This has been Moscow’s scenario since the Minsk One armistice (September 2014). Under Minsk Two, moreover (February 2015), local elections in that territory are to be held not only under Ukrainian legislation, but also under “modalities” to be negotiated between Kyiv and Donetsk-Luhansk (article 4).

    This approach compromises Ukrainian legislation in several ways. First, the mere fact of holding elections in this territory contradicts Ukrainian law (see above). Second, Ukraine’s electoral code is inherently incompatible with “DPR-LPR” election practices (as displayed in their November 2014 “parliamentary and presidential elections,” which produced the current authorities there). Third, the “modalities” of the proposed elections are to be negotiated by Kyiv with Donetsk-Luhansk, instead of being determined by Ukraine’s legislation. And negotiating with “DPR-LPR” authorities would imply recognition of those authorities by Kyiv. Thus, international reassurances that those elections would be held “under Ukrainian law” are misleading, irrespective from which capital they emanate.

    Meanwhile, holding or even preparing elections in that territory would necessitate Ukraine’s consent, which Russia has failed on its own to obtain.

    Western diplomacy, increasingly anxious to “freeze” this conflict, seeks Kyiv’s consent to holding elections in that territory. Pro-Russia authorities would predictably win. Yet, discussions are accelerating in the “Normandy” format (Russia, Germany, France, Ukraine), the bilateral Russia-US format (on the deputy ministerial level, Grigory Karasin–Victoria Nuland), and the Minsk Contact Group (Russia, Ukraine, OSCE, “DPR,” “LPR”), about holding elections in the secessionist territory.

    Those forums and channels are, by definition, concerned with “implementing the Minsk agreement,” the main political clauses of which carry a December 2015 deadline. Russia bears no direct “obligations” on the military clauses; it is not even named. The burden of “Minsk obligations” is being shifted entirely on Ukraine at this stage: i.e., consenting to local elections being held in Donetsk-Luhansk and adopting a constitutional status for that territory. Even in that case, under Minsk Two, Ukraine would not regain control of its border with Russia, but could only start negotiating about that with the armed “DPR-LPR” (another form of recognition de facto).

    Politically, “re-integrating” Donetsk-Luhansk in their existing form into Ukraine’s political system would eventually bring a contingent of pro-Russia deputies into the Ukrainian parliament. According to Hiorhiy Tuka, recently appointed governor of the liberated part of the Luhansk province, sentiment favoring Russia and the former Party of Regions is widespread, and would impact on elections accordingly (Ukraiynska Pravda, July 26). The Ukrainian government may be able to change that mood in the liberated area eventually, but the militarized “DPR-LPR” will remain beyond Kyiv’s reach in political terms, even if that territory is formally re-integrated with Ukraine.

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    http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_...0#.VbxS-uoVhMt

    PART TWO

    Elections in Ukraine’s Secessionist Territory: A Topic of International Negotiation (Part Two)

    Publication: Eurasia Daily Monitor Volume: 12 Issue: 144

    July 31, 2015 03:39 PM Age: 8 hrs

    By: Vladimir Socor

    At this point, Moscow seems content to watch Western diplomats urging Kyiv to legitimize the Donetsk-Luhansk authorities through local elections, and (as a consequence of this) enshrining an official status for that territory in Ukraine’s constitution (see EDM, July 20, 24).

    According to Kyiv officials, cited by Zerkalo Nedeli (June 26), US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland has “gently encouraged Ukraine to include the rebel territories in the upcoming local elections. When reproached politely about such a scenario being unrealistic, Nuland said with a smile: ‘Look for strong characters capable of winning a campaign there.’ Nuland named free access for all media and foreign observers as sufficient conditions for the occupied areas to express their wishes.”

    Similarly, German Foreign Affairs Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier recently urged Kyiv to “go on, hold elections in those territories, change the constitution, and they [Donetsk-Luhansk] will gradually change, too,” according to Ukraine’s chief negotiator, the former president Leonid Kuchma (Zerkalo Nedeli, June 26).

    Until mid-July, President Petro Poroshenko and Ukrainian parliamentary leaders resisted such entreaties; they stood firm even when German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President François Hollande turned their recommendations into outright pressures (see EDM, July 9, 10).

    On July 16, however, Nuland prevailed on Kyiv to start the process of enshrining a constitutional status for Donetsk-Luhansk, as well as to hold talks in the Contact Group about local elections in that occupied territory (see EDM, July 20, 24). Nuland held Kyiv strictly to its “obligations” under the Minsk armistice.

    The day after Nuland’s agitated visit, Poroshenko assured US Vice President Joseph Biden by telephone about “Ukraine’s undeviating fulfillment of the Mink agreement.” Biden, praising that first constitutional step, urged Ukraine onto the next step: “elections to be held throughout the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts [provinces]” (Ukrinform, White House press release, July 17).

    Also on July 17, the leaders of the “Normandy” group of countries touched on the Donetsk-Luhansk elections in a telephone conference. Russian President Vladimir Putin, Chancellor Merkel, and President Hollande caucused in advance, then surprised Poroshenko with their call while he was visiting the Kryvyy Rih steel plant. Hollande said that all parties should implement their Minsk “obligations” by the end of this year, including local elections in Donetsk-Luhansk. And “the interlocutors agreed with him” (Ukrinform, Elysee.fr, Bundeskanzlerin.de, July 17).

    Russia’s Foreign Affairs Minister Sergei Lavrov called his US and German counterparts, John Kerry and Frank-Walter Steinmeier, separately to discuss “Ukraine’s main obligations” at this stage of the Minsk document’s implementation: direct dialogue with Donetsk-Luhansk and local elections to be held there (Interfax, July 18).

    On July 20, Poroshenko instructed Kuchma and the other Ukrainian delegates to the Minsk Contact Group to discuss holding elections in Donetsk and Luhansk, merely on the condition that the latter abandon their intentions to hold elections separately from the rest of Ukraine (Ukrinform, July 21). At that point, apparently, Kyiv was still in full retreat.

    Meeting on July 21 in Minsk, however, the Contact Group broke down over “DPR-LPR’s” demand that Ukraine adjust its electoral legislation, taking into account “DPR-LPR’s” proposals, which they had submitted in May (see EDM, May 19, 22, 26) as a basis for holding local elections.

    In the Minsk meeting, furthermore, Donetsk and Luhansk asked Kyiv to withdraw the constitutional amendment on the status of “certain areas in the Donetsk and Luhansk provinces” from consideration. The Verkhovna Rada (parliament of Ukraine) initiated the approval procedure of that constitutional amendment under Western pressure on July 16 (see EDM, July 20). Donetsk and Luhansk, however, insist that the amendment must be mutually agreed (as distinct from a unilateral Kyiv document), submitted to the Contact Group, and re-submitted in the modified form to the Verhkovna Rada. The “DPR-LPR” delegates in Minsk asked for negotiations with Kyiv about the electoral law and the constitutional amendment (Donetskoye Agentstvo Novostey, Luganskiy Informatsionnyi Tsentr, July 21, 22).

    The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe’s (OSCE) chairman-in-office, Serbian Foreign Affairs Minister Ivica Dacic, exceptionally attended the Minsk meeting. He declared that “the conditions of holding the elections [in Donetsk-Luhansk], inviting the ODIHR [Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights—the OSCE’s election monitoring arm], etc., must be worked out by Kyiv and Donbas [Donetsk-Luhansk] in consensus” (Belta, Ukrinform, Interfax, July 21). And the Donetsk and Luhansk delegates, Denis Pushilin and Vladislav Deynego, went on to declare that their side “strictly adheres” to the Minsk Two document, while Kyiv contravenes it (Interfax, July 24).

    A follow-up meeting, tentatively scheduled for July 30, does not seem to have taken place.

    The Contact Group’s temporary breakdown may well have contributed to Poroshenko’s recovery of morale on July 29. While visiting Lviv, he declared that the constitutional amendment initiated on July 16 does not envisage any special status for Donetsk-Luhansk, but refers only to Ukraine’s already existing law, adopted unilaterally in September–October 2014, and supplemented with pre-conditions in March 2015. From the “dozen” conditions that must be met before that law goes into effect, Poroshenko cited the evacuation of Russian forces from Ukraine’s territory and the restoration of Ukraine’s sovereign control over its border with Russia. That same law (with its March supplement) also lists democratic election standards as pre-conditions to validating any local elections in Donetsk-Luhansk (Ukraiynska Pravda, July 29).

    Russia is regularly citing the Minsk Two document to the effect that Kyiv may not unilaterally adopt decisions on the status of Donetsk-Luhansk and elections there, but only by negotiation with Donetsk-Luhansk authorities. It is a fact that, under the Minsk Two armistice, the constitutional status of Donetsk-Luhansk and the modalities of elections there are supposed to be agreed between Kyiv and the “representatives of those territories” (articles 11 and 12), as distinct from being adopted by Kyiv itself. Western officials will have to remember this, and stop holding Kyiv strictly to the “Minsk obligations,” when Kyiv tries to wiggle out from those Moscow-dictated “obligations.”

  16. #1216
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    When reading the previous two part articles on the US unilateral appeasement policy being forced onto the Ukraine and then go back and read the similar article from the same group about the US applying unilateral appeasement pressure on the "special law constitutional changes" and THEN this from last night.

    Ask yourself does it make sense to flip Minsk 2 on it's head and push for political changes when absolutely none of the military points in Minsk 2 have been fulfilled at all by Russia.

    Minsk 2 had 11 points the first six addressing the military aspects and the remaining five addressing the political side--BUT Obama has now gone to the political side and is ignoring the military side. WHAT good is it if one side attempts to fulfill the political side when Russia and her mercenaries constantly refuse to implement any point of the 11 points of Minsk 2???

    Unilateral appeasement without a reciprocal demand have never worked in negotiations in the last 400 years and it will not now.

    Does that make any sense WHEN they is now a major summer offensive in progress by Russian troops and her mercenaries??????

    Why is it so hard for Obama, Nuland and Kerry to use the words "aggressor and invasion"?????

    Even worse all of them seem to be unable to even see a "war" in Central Europe-- that is ongoing.


    109 attacks from DPR side last night - ATO HQ

    Following 109 attacks on Ukraine on Jul.31 russoterrorists turned to "scorched earth" tactic when Aug.1 night fell


    01:59 @irenafcsd "Just imagine how massive #Horlivka shelling is if one can hear its aftersounds even in #Kramatorsk..." [about 50 km away]

    07:35 @AMykhailova Battle in #Maryinka lasted overnight. Aircrafts transported badly wounded to Dnepropetrovsk..

    Horlivka experienced one of the heaviest shelling to date last night


    08:37 #Horlivka @77bot1 All in all there was no such night as today since winter

    08:15, 09:50 @BylByleva One heard booms at #Mariupol road behind #Olenivka

    08:06 #Donetsk Zaperevalna @666_mancer Sporadic distant booms

    09:25 @902Albi "2 more volleys. Quiet in #Maryinka that means at #Krasnohorivka or #Pisky"

    Peski, Airport side - loud action https://twitter.com/donetsk_ukrop/st...60986681483264

    10:46 #Luhansk @LUGANSKA_JUNTA Machine gun fire is audible from the east direction, drills?
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-01-2015 at 08:56 AM.

  17. #1217
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    Behooves every SWJ reader to fully understand every sentence in the Minsk 2 Agreement signed in February 2015.

    Since the Ukraine signed this agreement and during the "so called ceasefire" that I call a "fighting ceasefire" as there have never in history been a "fighting ceasefire"--the Ukraine military has lost over 229 KIAs and over 500 WIAs on the military side.

    WHAT Obama, Kerry and Nuland seem to think --is that when one does say a unilateral appeasement from Russian demanded move to the political points in Minsk 2 Russia will reciprocate --THAT is literally the dumbest thought pattern since the annexation of Crimea.

    NOTICE that if the "military points" had in fact been established--there would be no over 100 attacks (shellings and ground attacks) per day for the last week or so, all heavy weapons would have been drawn back thus no shellings, a buffer zone established thus no damage to civilians and critical economic infrastructure , PALL POWs finally exchanged, ALL Russian troops withdrawn and all mercenaries disarmed and returned to Russia.

    BUT what do we get--the US, France and Germany all basically throwing the Ukraine under the bus for Russian support in Iran and Syria.

    SOME in Europe political circles are saying that the new US sanctions this week were really an attempt to defuse the concept of throwing the Ukraine under the bus--BUT these sanctions were late and not the original ones the US leaked last week that are actually a form of "tactical nuclear economic strikes" that would have for the first time shown Putin the fallacy of his continued military attacks. and would have shown the seriousness of Obama and the other western leaders at ending the Ukrainian Russo war.


    Minsk 2 Agreement

    12:11PM GMT 12 Feb 2015


    • Immediate and full ceasefire in particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts of Ukraine and its strict fulfilment as of 00.00 midnight (Kiev time) on Feb. 15, 2015.


    • Pull-out of all heavy weapons by both sides to equal distance with the aim of creation of a security zone on minimum 50 kilometres apart for artillery of 100mm calibre or more, and a security zone of 70km for MLRS and 140 kilometres for MLRS Tornado-S, Uragan, Smerch and tactical missile systems Tochka U.


    – for Ukrainian troops, from actual line of contact;



    – for armed formations of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts of Ukraine, from the contact line in accordance with the Minsk memorandum as of Sept. 19, 2014

    • The pullout of the above mentioned heavy weapons has to start no later than the second day after the ceasefire and finish within 14 days.

    • This process will be assisted by OSCE with the support of the Trilateral Contact Group.

    • Effective monitoring and verification of ceasefire regime and pullout of heavy weapons by OSCE will be provided from the first day of pullout, using all necessary technical means such as satellites, drones, radio-location systems etc.

    • On the first day after the pullout a dialogue is to start on modalities of conducting local elections in accordance with the Ukrainian legislation and the Law of Ukraine “On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts,” and also about the future of these districts based on the above mentioned law.

    • Without delays, but no later than 30 days from the date of signing of this document, a resolution has to be approved by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, indicating the territory which falls under the special regime in accordance with the law “On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts,” based in the line set up by the Minsk Memorandum as of Sept. 19, 2014.

    • Provide pardon and amnesty by way of enacting a law that forbids persecution and punishment of persons in relation to events that took place in particular departments of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts of Ukraine.

    • Provide release and exchange of all hostages and illegally held persons, based on the principle of “all for all”. This process has to end – at the latest – on the fifth day after the pullout (of weapons).

    • Provide safe access, delivery, storage and distribution of humanitarian aid to the needy, based on an international mechanism.

    • Define the modalities of a full restoration of social and economic connections, including social transfers, such as payments of pensions and other payments (income and revenue, timely payment of communal bills, restoration of tax payments within the framework of Ukrainian legal field)

    • With this aim, Ukraine will restore management over the segment of its banking system in the districts affected by the conflict, and possibly, an international mechanism will be established to ease such transactions.

    • Restore full control over the state border by Ukrainian government in the whole conflict zone, which has to start on the first day after the local election and end after the full political regulation (local elections in particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts based on the law of Ukraine and Constitutional reform) by the end of 2015, on the condition of fulfilment of Point 11 – in consultations and in agreement with representatives of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts within the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group.

    • Pullout of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, and also mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under OSCE supervision. Disarmament of all illegal groups.

    • Constitutional reform in Ukraine, with the new Constitution to come into effect by the end of 2015, the key element of which is decentralisation (taking into account peculiarities of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, agreed with representatives of these districts), and also approval of permanent legislation on special status of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts in accordance with the measures spelt out in the footnotes, by the end of 2015.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-01-2015 at 08:46 AM.

  18. #1218
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    Remember in 1975 the Soviet Union was at it's height of power and yet did not feel threatened by the Helsinki aAccords nd signed Helsinki.

    Carl Bildt ✔ @carlbildt
    Helsinki Final Act sought security for states and rights for individuals. Instead Russia wants security for regimes. http://tass.ru/en/russia/812052

    OTD in 1975 USSR signed Helsinki Accords promising to respect borders & let countries join what orgs like they like. pic.twitter.com/SKySI0Ne1L
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-01-2015 at 08:57 AM.

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    This is an interesting Russian press release in that one on hand they "state they support Helsinki" BUT on the other hand "they reinvent what they want Helsinki to be".

    Instead of the protection of individual rights and the rights of countries to make their own choices---NOW Russia wants it to protect regimes and their decisions thus not required to support the views of their own civil society.

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/812052

    Ukraine crisis exposes system problems in European security, says diplomat

    August 01, 10:29 UTC+3

    "There is a feeling that different ‘color revolutions’ and other projects to replace legitimate regimes are aimed at triggering chaos and instability," Ivan Soltanovsky said


    MOSCOW, August 1. /TASS/. The Ukrainian crisis has exposed system-related problems in the architecture of Euro-Atlantic security, the director of the Russian Foreign Ministry’s Department for European Cooperation, Ivan Soltanovsky, told TASS on Saturday.

    "There is a feeling that different ‘color revolutions’ and other projects to replace legitimate regimes are aimed at triggering chaos and instability," Soltanovsky said in an interview timed to the signing of the Helsinki Final Act 40 years ago.

    "Now, Ukraine has fallen a victim to such logic," he added. The diplomat said "the Ukrainian crisis has exposed system-related shortages in the architecture of the Euro-Atlantic security, which was not brought in compliance with the possibilities that opened after an epoch of confrontation of the second part of the 20th century had come to an end," he said.

    Russian diplomat: OSCE monitoring mission reports often one-sided

    Reports of the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine are often one-sided, as it first of all monitors militias, Ivan Soltanovsky told.

    "The SMM daily issues reports on the situation in Donbass and Ukraine. Unfortunately, these reports are often one-sided, to which we have repeatedly drawn attention," Soltanovsky said in an interview timed to the day when the Helsinki Final Act was signed 40 years ago.


    "Too close attention is paid to militias, and at the same time there is much less information about what is going on west of the line of contact," he explained.

    Soltanovsky reminded the interlocutor that the mission’s mandate included the whole territory of Ukraine, noting that this is why "it is very important to also watch how human rights and interests of national minorities are observed in Kiev, Odessa, Kharkov, Lvov, Ivano-Frankovsk, Chernovtsy and other regions of Ukraine".

    At the same time, the diplomat highlighted the role of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe in the settlement of the Ukrainian crisis. He said OSCE representatives also worked within the framework of the Contact Group and its four subgroups.

    "Besides, a group of OSCE observers is deployed at border crossing checkpoints Donetsk and Gukovo on the Russian-Ukrainian border in the Rostov region," he continued.

    NOTE: Russia in violation of the OSCE SMM mandate refuses to allow the OSCE to monitor the entire length of the Russian Ukrainian border AND via their mercenaries REFUSES the OSCE the mandated right to freely travel in their mercenary and Russian troop controlled areas of the Dondas--typical Russian doublespeak.

    "We are satisfied on the whole with its activity, observers are objectively fixing and reporting on the situation with travels across the border," the diplomat said.
    AGAIN: Russian doublespeak--how can you in the begtinning of this PR complain about the one sidedness of the OSCE reporting AND then state this???
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-01-2015 at 09:07 AM.

  20. #1220
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    This is an interesting Russian press release in that one on hand they "state they support Helsinki" BUT on the other hand "they reinvent what they want Helsinki to be".

    Instead of the protection of individual rights and the rights of countries to make their own choices---NOW Russia wants it to protect regimes and their decisions thus not required to support the views of their own civil society.

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/812052

    Ukraine crisis exposes system problems in European security, says diplomat

    August 01, 10:29 UTC+3

    "There is a feeling that different ‘color revolutions’ and other projects to replace legitimate regimes are aimed at triggering chaos and instability," Ivan Soltanovsky said



    AGAIN: Russian doublespeak--how can you in the begtinning of this PR complain about the one sidedness of the OSCE reporting AND then state this???
    NOTICE: That when the OSCE this week stated that since Sept 2014 to June 2015 they had observed over 20,000 Russians in uniforms cross back and forth from Russia to the Ukraine--AND Russia did not push back on this reporting and now they praise the OSCE for their border reporting SO did they inadvertently agree that they are actively providing soldiers and fighters into the Ukraine from Russian territory???

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