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Thread: Ukraine: Russo-Ukr War (June-December 2015)

  1. #1861
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Poroshenko: I don't understand why we have to wait a whole week to a ceasefire http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/27-augu...e-have-to-wait
    Outgoing full load of GRADs from

    From the Mariupol DMZ area of the so called Russian US implemented “sign of good faith” which is still getting UAF killed and wounded—so much for the US trusting Putin.

    Obama’s inspiring words—“we will judge Putin on his actions—not his words”

    According to Butusov, 8 Ukrainian soldiers (2 - 36th Brigade, 6 - 72nd Brigade) were killed in sector M yesterday

    https://m.facebook.com/butusov.yuriy...message_bubble

    Donetsk, outgoing arty from mine #21 slugheap pic.twitter.com/YqyojeEkwW

    Something heavy is shooting from approx. Donetsk, Kievski ave, 87 https://twitter.com/hauzenmynh/statu...78109967810562

    21:40 #Krasnohorivka @hyeva_maryinka They awoke, boom, booms sound dully

    21:46 #Donetsk @AkaDON12 , flashes behind the airport and westward, soft ones

    21:46 #Donetsk @AkaDON12 Finally [RUS] delivered 750 tons of textbooks to DNR - volleys on Putilovka, mortars first, now sounds heavier

    22:00 #Donetsk @UkraineSuper1 "Landings somewhere in Putilovka, RUS textbooks exlode strongly"

    22:09 #Stepne @Darren_Aro Volleys are heard from far away from #Olenivka-#Dokuchaevsk side. They don't go towards Stepne

    22:48 #Donetsk @14720Maro [fb] Hardware towards Tekstilschik

    The entire front line is active tonight—so much for the so called separatists 1 Sept ceasefire

    22:47 #Donetsk @relictDon Approaching hardware roar is heard in #Rutchenkove machinery plant area

    talked to a few low ranked DNRs... they're all angry and ready to attack... would be very stupid of them...

    22:40 #Donetsk @devi1810 Sudden MLRS from Kalinovsky ds

    22:39 #Donetsk @ADivinorum MLRS from the east, full load

    22:37 #Stanytsia_Luhanska @100007182042214 Power line was damaged by shelling, area left without electricity. Deflagrations again

    22:30 Due to shelling power lines damaged near #Stanitsya_Luhanska. Now under fire again. https://twitter.com/100007182042214/...85872005599232

    Donetsk, Grad outgoing

    22:15 #Maryinka @hyeva_maryinka [vk] Boarding school and Novomaryinka directions have been loud
    22:30 ceased

    Krasnohorivka @hyeva_maryinka [vk]
    21:55 2 more booms after lull
    22:00 Strong boom and silence

    23:05 #Krasnohorivka @hyeva_maryinka [vk] machine guns are now heard, smoothly in the town

    23:05 #Dokuchaevsk @goky4_ykpauHa "Ruscists started their evening rite" [=shelling started]

    23:19 #Avdiivka @JuZolyshkaLia Wow, landings, some strong ones
    Shellings all along the demarcation front line tonight- morning attack numbers will be in the 80-95 range.

    AND not a single negative comment against Russian military activities in eastern Ukraine tonight by Obama, Hollande and or Merkel--total silence....

  2. #1862
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    With the formal Russian invasion into eastern Ukraine in August 2014 to rescue their failing mercenary movement until August 2015 the Russian hybrid warfare or non linear warfare has effectively been defeated if one takes the eight phases they themselves have stated is the basis of their UW strategy and looks for specific failures.

    First failure---after annexing Crimea there was a long delay in the Russian military and Putin’s processing of what to do next---Girkin a so called former and really still active FSB/GRU officer and a wanted war criminal from Kosovo took 13 other potentially GRU members and instituted their takeover of cities and towns in the Donbas (New Russia) eastern Ukraine following the Russian non linear warfare doctrine.

    Girkin has in a number of interviews actually criticized Putin for having been to slow in making his decisions on when to enter the Ukraine.

    If one looks at the numerous interviews and a number of comments coming out of Moscow the Girkin takeovers failed in cities that they had assumed would go proRussian----Karkiv, Mariupol, and Odessa which would have given the mercenaries a viable nation state capable of economically supporting itself and it would have fulfilled for Putin the ability to leverage their hold over the Ukraine by cutting them off of the coast line and the ports of Mariupol and Odessa thus making the Ukraine a landlocked nation totally dependent on Russia.

    This first failure was due to the lack of understanding that the ethnic Ukrainians in these towns while speaking Russian still identified themselves as Ukrainian not Russian AND the various volunteer BNs that were stood up during the Maidan moved quickly to quell the various Russian attempted takeovers—even if rag tag they were able on sheer determination to end the mercenary actions which were successful.

    Failure two---the Russian military anticipated that after the weak response by the Ukrainian Armed Forces in Crimea they would see the same responses in eastern Ukraine—WHAT they did not anticipate were the volunteer BNs joining forces with the UAF and yes they were a rag tag heap of a military, but they were still able to effectively defeat the mercenaries in fight after fight to the point of a total defeat thus forcing Putin to move militarily into eastern Ukraine.

    Something I believe he never did envision in the early stages of Russian non linear warfare as that had not happened in Crimea. THERE is something in the Russian military doctrine that is actually causing a major problem for Putin and his non linear warfare model---the belief in a total defeat of the opposing forces---Putin and his military have been attempting to cause a massive military defeat of the UAF thus forcing the Ukrainian government to negotiate on Russian terms. In the Russian invasion of August 2014 they surrounded a rag tag force of 1K to 1.5K and soundly defeated them—but overall a large group was able to slip away to fight another day.

    This defeat forced the UAF to address their shortcomings and rebuild a professional military in a hurry while the fighting was and is still ongoing. In August 2014, there were only 6K personnel available to fight in august 2014 ---now that number is close to 64K along the front lines.

    We see the improvement in the UAF in the fighting at Debaltseve a clear and concise violation by Russia of the Minsk 2 agreement. Again surrounded the UAF this time did not listen to their higher command and on their own the ground commanders organized a fighting withdrawal and were able to effectively withdraw 2.5K troops that were surrounded with minimum loses and they brought out all their heavy equipment. Even Putin who voiced in a public interview in Budapest boasted of their defeat and the next day the UAF announced they had successfully withdrawn all fighting units.

    Since Debaltseve the tenacity and resilience of the UAF has even surprised the Russian MoD ie sustaining over 150 to 200 tons of munitions being fired at them daily with only on one recent day having just two WIAs. The UAF has beaten back a number of strong ground attacks and has been as well beating back countless Spetsnaz led ground attacks. The UAF has effectively bottled up Russian forces and her mercenaries forcing Putin to either go for a major ground offensive which would trigger harsher sanctions and or lose face and pull back.

    Failure three—Russian doctrine clearly sees/states--- the use of economics as a weapons system in non linear warfare and has been hoping through constant fighting to drive the Ukraine into economic collapse as their economy was in bad shape before the August 2014 invasion. While struggling the Ukraine has though passed a number of major economic reforms, received a 27B USD commitment from the IMF and millions/billions in other forms of aid from the EU, the Baltics, Japan, US and Canada and are in the verge of negotiating a debt buy down combined with the current free trade and no import tax regime of the EU. The Ukrainian economy while still struggling has improved vastly in the last six months and is projected to rebound in late 2016 with a moderate growth goal.

    Russia on the other hand because of poor economic governance, oligarch controlled enterprises, poor political leadership coupled with the Crimea and eastern Ukraine sanctions, falling oil prices and a Ruble crash is in dire straits while not admitting they are in dire straits. AND having to service the war costs in eastern Ukraine of an estimated 50M USDs per day Russia has a far more serious economic struggle than does the Ukraine.

    Failure four----the use of information warfare, fake information, disinformation, outright propaganda and a constant barrage of outright lies is slowly losing it’s effectiveness as social media and a number of Ukrainian and EU organizations are calling out this propaganda faster than the Russians can create new myths.

    The use of massive troll nets while new, intensive and very large --- as a major issue--it is also diminishing. While initially effective in shaping the Russian myths of why they annexed Crimea and why they are protecting so called ethnic Russian speakers the effects of these myths are slowly receding in the West—a vast amount of the Russian informational war is being directed towards their own civil society in order to avoid what they view as their worst nightmare---a Moscow Maidan.

    We see this diminishing effect in the way they have handled the propaganda pushback with the shot down of MH17. We have now at least six different shot down versions with Russia claiming they are all true while social media has torn them apart as blatant lies.

    This does not mean informational warfare should now be ignored—no rather it must be viewed as a critical piece of the Russian non linear warfare and must be fully understood and countered as Russia now views war to be a daily event even in peacetime thus driving their informational warfare in ways to effect the success of this unspoken war by shaping the opinions of entire civil societies and their economic and political leadership.

    Failure five---the unintended 3rd order of effects of non linear warfare is time---something that the Russian military and Putin has totally until the last month or so overlooked. Non linear warfare as being practiced by Russia in the eastern Ukraine was designed to be fast paced with results being in the form of a functioning mercenary government and the ability to force the Ukraine to cave to Russian demands in a continuous ongoing and speedy fashion.

    We are now a full year into the non linear warfare and actually since August 2014 and outside of the still ongoing informational warfare and cyber warfare non linear warfare elements we are seeing a clear and concise interstate war ongoing. Russia has been forced into a tank on tank approach which is time consuming and costly and their “New Russia” project has since February 2015 not really gone anywhere and time is running out as there has been no additional territory gained since Minsk 2 the demarcation line.

    Failure six---if we look at the diplomatic efforts on the part of Russia as being one element in their non linear warfare which it has been so defined then since Minsk 2 they are failing on all fronts. Even the attempts by Putin to “demand” that Obama, Hollande and Merkel apply direct pressure on the Ukraine and to force the Ukraine to do unilateral appeasement moves as defined by Russia which has occurred has led to nothing in the end.

    In the end we have to start actually looking at what has and has not worked in the new Russian UW strategy called new generational warfare/non linear warfare and called by the West hybrid warfare.

    The failures are starting to out weight the victories.

  3. #1863
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    More indicators Russian troops and her mercenaries are actually shelling their own civilians to creat a provocation and blame the UAF---

    Witness in #Donetsk city:
    http://www.dw.com/en/waiting-for-pea...ine/a-18669972 … pic.twitter.com/A7naMJtVpg

    'Pro Russians' shell own school in #Horlivka call #OSCE . Idiots forgot #OSCE understand physics and math pic.twitter.com/94TF6uhGZU

    It appears my eye in the sky may have actually captured the #OSCE inspecting the #Horlivka school pic.twitter.com/WUBr8f3Eis

    a bit of Opytne footage... https://twitter.com/Dbnmjr/status/637015621063045120
    At 22:40 #Optyne was hit with GRADs. Residential areas of #Avdiivka came under under 122-mm artillery fire from 9:30PM-12PM.

    Stakhanov: russian artillery positions... https://twitter.com/elonline40/statu...12167900930048

    Starohnativka was shelled at 9PM from 122-mm artillery. Starohnativka hit also by 120-mm mortars.

    AND the Russians make a big deal out of a true ceasefire on 1 Sept—as the Ukrainian President stated yesterday THEN start it today WHY delay—proof they do not want one is below—I had though we were on track last night for 80-90 but instead it was 109. Remember the Russian mercenaries even stated that over 75 is actual combat operations and 30 is a "true ceasefire".

    ATO presser reported 109 russian attacks yesterday in #Donbas. Most tense in the evening was #Mariupol area.
    https://www.facebook.com/ato.news?fref=nf

    Ah......Mariupol--the area that Putin demanded that the UAF--show "a sign of good faith" and Obama and his NSC caved in to the demand and pressured the he Ukraine via an unilateral appeasement move--this is the result of that very poor decision by Obama.

    08.10.2014 Outpost 39.06 in front line in 5 km from Ilovaisk. 39 territorial defense battalion and mortar... http://fb.me/22zV4kREQ

    #Donetsk 7AM
    Proletarskyi ds - distant sporadic volleys https://twitter.com/DoneckiiPatriot/...14062573178886

    #Yasynuvata 6:30AM
    Medium intensity battle at traffic police post area https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/sta...13709643628544

    #Donetsk 6:30AM
    One could hear distant sporadic volleys https://twitter.com/DoneckiiPatriot/...08207530455040
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-28-2015 at 05:11 AM.

  4. #1864
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    the first thread on the Ukraine war I posted a large chart indicating what individuals and organization--globally--where in fact tied to and supporting the Russian informational warfare either as propagandists and or pundits.

    Here is Ron Paul again---this time with a Russian slanted approach to Syria.

    Lack of investigation leads @RonPaulInstitut to assume #Assad regime "rightfully" kills civilians. http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives...opaganda-ring/

    It is interesting this combination of American so called expert pundits and the Russian info warfare being played out in the US.

    BTW--this extends to US Congressmen paid for by Russian PR money via Us PR firms.

    In some aspects even Obama is caught in it with the belief that he needs Putin for his legacy meaning needing Russia for a solution in Syria and with IS when in fact if Russia was so intent in ending this five year old tragedy he could have stopped all weapons shipments and his purchasing of oil in order to directly pressure Assad--WHICH he did not.

    Example in the same time frame that the USAF conducted 1400 airstrikes on IS the Assad AF using Russian supplied helicopters and fighters conducted 7000 strikes against civilian targets TO include barrel bombs loaded with chlorine gas. AND Obama had a red line on the use of chemical weapons against civilians---which conveniently disappeared.

    At the same time Russian has vetoed every UNSC attempt to resolve the Syrian crisis even stopping humanitarian aid AT the same time claiming the right to send "humanitarian aid" uncontrolled by the Ukraine and Red Cross into eastern Ukraine---now a total of 37 convoys.

    Why he needs the Syria naval port and his GRU intel spy centers located in Syria.

    IF Putin is so intent in fighting the Is THEN why is he allowing thousands of Islamists to leave Russia--but now they are returning and gunning for him AND now he screams for US assistance.

    The irony of the Russian foreign policy was stated yesterday---Russian chiding the EU for their non action on the masses of refugees coming into Europe--THEN offering to help the EU find a solution WHEN in fact Russia is part and parcel of the Assad problem and has done nothing to stop it.

    Therein lies the core problem for Obama and yet his legacy is far more important than ending a war that has put 3M refugees onto the road and has 1.2M IDP and over 300K killed not counting the sheer amount of destruction and wounding of civilians.

    We get up tight about the heavy Russian weaponization of information war that is ongoing in and around the Ukraine BUT fail to see it in operation inside our own country--how strange is that?????

    One really does need to fully understand the true Russian military doctrine on the use of weaponized informational.

    Russia views war as continuing even in peacetime and the weaponization of information and cyber warfare are their tow key elements of their permanent
    war.

  5. #1865
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    In the first thread on the Ukraine war I posted a large chart indicating what individuals and organization--globally--where in fact tied to and supporting the Russian informational warfare either as propagandists and or pundits.

    Here is Ron Paul again---this time with a Russian slanted approach to Syria.

    Lack of investigation leads @RonPaulInstitut to assume #Assad regime "rightfully" kills civilians. http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives...opaganda-ring/

    It is interesting this combination of American so called expert pundits and the Russian info warfare being played out in the US.

    BTW--this extends to US Congressmen paid for by Russian PR money via Us PR firms.

    In some aspects even Obama is caught in it with the belief that he needs Putin for his legacy meaning needing Russia for a solution in Syria and with IS when in fact if Russia was so intent in ending this five year old tragedy he could have stopped all weapons shipments and his purchasing of oil in order to directly pressure Assad--WHICH he did not.

    Example in the same time frame that the USAF conducted 1400 airstrikes on IS the Assad AF using Russian supplied helicopters and fighters conducted 7000 strikes against civilian targets TO include barrel bombs loaded with chlorine gas. AND Obama had a red line on the use of chemical weapons against civilians---which conveniently disappeared.

    At the same time Russian has vetoed every UNSC attempt to resolve the Syrian crisis even stopping humanitarian aid AT the same time claiming the right to send "humanitarian aid" uncontrolled by the Ukraine and Red Cross into eastern Ukraine---now a total of 37 convoys.

    Why he needs the Syria naval port and his GRU intel spy centers located in Syria.

    IF Putin is so intent in fighting the Is THEN why is he allowing thousands of Islamists to leave Russia--but now they are returning and gunning for him AND now he screams for US assistance.

    The irony of the Russian foreign policy was stated yesterday---Russian chiding the EU for their non action on the masses of refugees coming into Europe--THEN offering to help the EU find a solution WHEN in fact Russia is part and parcel of the Assad problem and has done nothing to stop it.

    Therein lies the core problem for Obama and yet his legacy is far more important than ending a war that has put 3M refugees onto the road and has 1.2M IDP and over 300K killed not counting the sheer amount of destruction and wounding of civilians.

    We get up tight about the heavy Russian weaponization of information war that is ongoing in and around the Ukraine BUT fail to see it in operation inside our own country--how strange is that?????

    One really does need to fully understand the true Russian military doctrine on the use of weaponized informational.

    Russia views war as continuing even in peacetime and the weaponization of information and cyber warfare are their two key elements of their permanent
    war.
    One really does need to fully understand the true nature of the Russian military doctrine on the use of weaponized information.

    Russia views war as continuing even in peacetime and the weaponization of information and cyber warfare are their two key elements of that state of permanent war.

    HOW strange is the simple fact that the Russians have repeatedly stated in open source materials in multiple forums their full informational warfare concept/doctrine and YET we in the US just breeze by thinking it is not a "permanent war".

    One of the key elements inside the Russian "weaponization of information" is the complete focus on changing the perceptions of an entire civil society.

    Organizations like the Ron Paul Insitiute and the multiple US PR firms getting a constant flow of Russian funding and certain proRussian US Congressmen are the keys to changing that civil society and yet we seem to think the US civil society is smart enough to see the game in play--they are not.

  6. #1866
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    07:26 #Avdiivka @rechnikato There were landings within the town, we were in the center and it felt like it was landing outside the town.

    07:36 #Avdiivka @rechnikato "The party seems to be in #Yasynyvata direction" https://twitter.com/loogunda/status/637150278110871552

    09:15 #Donetsk @PVB40 "Shevchenko Blvd before the bridge: road 'police' and automatic rifleman. The same at Viktoria hotel"

    09:35 #Donetsk @liliya44514215 The same picture closer to Budenovsky at the intersection of Mayska-Svetlogo_Puti St https://twitter.com/loogunda/status/637152435790848000

  7. #1867
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    More indicators Russian troops and her mercenaries are actually shelling their own civilians to creat a provocation and blame the UAF---

    Witness in #Donetsk city:
    http://www.dw.com/en/waiting-for-pea...ine/a-18669972 … pic.twitter.com/A7naMJtVpg

    'Pro Russians' shell own school in #Horlivka call #OSCE . Idiots forgot #OSCE understand physics and math pic.twitter.com/94TF6uhGZU

    It appears my eye in the sky may have actually captured the #OSCE inspecting the #Horlivka school pic.twitter.com/WUBr8f3Eis

    a bit of Opytne footage... https://twitter.com/Dbnmjr/status/637015621063045120
    At 22:40 #Optyne was hit with GRADs. Residential areas of #Avdiivka came under under 122-mm artillery fire from 9:30PM-12PM.

    Stakhanov: russian artillery positions... https://twitter.com/elonline40/statu...12167900930048

    Starohnativka was shelled at 9PM from 122-mm artillery. Starohnativka hit also by 120-mm mortars.

    AND the Russians make a big deal out of a true ceasefire on 1 Sept—as the Ukrainian President stated yesterday THEN start it today WHY delay—proof they do not want one is below—I had though we were on track last night for 80-90 but instead it was 109. Remember the Russian mercenaries even stated that over 75 is actual combat operations and 30 is a "true ceasefire".

    ATO presser reported 109 russian attacks yesterday in #Donbas. Most tense in the evening was #Mariupol area.
    https://www.facebook.com/ato.news?fref=nf

    Ah......Mariupol--the area that Putin demanded that the UAF--show "a sign of good faith" and Obama and his NSC caved in to the demand and pressured the he Ukraine via an unilateral appeasement move--this is the result of that very poor decision by Obama.

    08.10.2014 Outpost 39.06 in front line in 5 km from Ilovaisk. 39 territorial defense battalion and mortar... http://fb.me/22zV4kREQ

    #Donetsk 7AM
    Proletarskyi ds - distant sporadic volleys https://twitter.com/DoneckiiPatriot/...14062573178886

    #Yasynuvata 6:30AM
    Medium intensity battle at traffic police post area https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/sta...13709643628544

    #Donetsk 6:30AM
    One could hear distant sporadic volleys https://twitter.com/DoneckiiPatriot/...08207530455040
    @finriswolf Stunned. Your footage is from Tuesday.
    I guess some people would pay money for such current satellite images...

  8. #1868
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    Light humor for the day----


    How a Russian opinion poll works: "Do you Igor Petrovich of 51 Ulitsa Oktobrskaya Apt 47 (with wife & 2 kids), DOB 12.4.1963 support Putin?"

  9. #1869
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    1 civilian and 1 Ukrainian soldier (commander of 92nd Brigade) was wounded in the Luhansk region yesterday - RSA
    http://112.ua/ato/v-luganskoy-obl-v-...ka-254707.html

    According to Sec. M Press officer, 51 militants were wounded after Ukraine forces destroyed an ammo depot in Styla
    http://m.0629.com.ua/news/940842

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    Perfect example of just how Russian “weaponization of information” works.

    A US Democratic Congressman entered anglen amendment to the DoD Defense Funding Bill indicating that the unit below which he called “a white supremacist neo Nazi group” should receive no US military training and or military equipment—social media immediately discovered that this Congressman had never been in the Ukraine, knew nothing about the Azov volunteer BN and had gotten all his information from a local media source—THEN it was discovered also via social media that a US lobbyist and his firm had close ties to the Congressman and had received PR funds from Moscow.

    THEN in the recent Normandy Four meeting Putin demanded a “sign of good faith” from the Ukrainian side and that as a part of that good faith they should pull out the Azov BN which had been fighting and virtually defeating attack after attack on the area they were defending-- the seaside town of Shyrokyne strategically critical to the defense of the Ukrainian city port of Mariupol where they had been in heavy fighting for over six months.

    While the Ukrainian military command argues that it was a “normal” rotation it is now well known that the US applied unilateral appeasement pressure to force that pullback on the Ukrainians. Especially from the Russia side who also “accused” Azov of being a” Nazi BN”.

    I had posted a number of serious comments on this sudden desire by the Obama administration to conduct a “sign of good faith” deal in hopes that this would appease Putin.

    REMEMBER it was Obama in 2014 who publicly stated for all to hear and see—“we will judge Putin on his actions not his words”. Well in front of rolling Russian TV camaeras the Russian troops pulled back all of 1.4kms the Ukrainian side 15km.

    AND since the pullback the UAF has taken loses and wounded by constant shelling and ground attacks in the area of the so called DMZ.

    So does anyone notice the relationship between Russian money flowing to the US and then a US Congressman suddenly becoming a massive knowledgable expert on Ukrainian internal affairs all gained from a single media source, to Putin demanding a pullback to Obama caving into that demand.

    All in the open and clearly recognizable---“weaponized information warfare” at it’s best.

    http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/27/as...ins-sidelined/

    As War Escalates, Ukrainian Volunteer Battalion Remains Sidelined

    Nolan Peterson / @nolanwpeterson / August 27, 2015

    URZUF, Ukraine—The vehicle yard at the Ukrainian National Guard Azov Battalion’s base here looks like the set of a Mad Max movie.

    There is a semi-truck tractor covered in welded black armor parked next to a fleet of busses, minivans, pickup trucks and hatchback Volkswagens all painted in camouflage patterns—some sporting bullet holes. The up-armored semi-truck tractor was used when the Azov Battalion stormed Mariupol in June 2014 to take the city back from separatist control.

    While Azov members or their supporters donated most of these civilian vehicles, the Ukrainian government has also supplied hand-me-downs from the Soviet era, including T-64 tanks and Soviet armored personnel carriers, called BTRs.

    Azov’s T-64 tanks, armed with 125-mm guns, were mostly built in the 1980s and have upgraded armor and targeting and communications equipment. One tank has deep gouges in its armor from combined Russian-separatist machine gun fire. All of the armored vehicles are being repainted in Azov’s distinctive camouflage pattern (the soldiers call it “za za style”) and unit symbol.

    Sign Up

    The Ukrainian government supplied the armored vehicles as part of the Azov Battalion’s incorporation under the Ministry of the Interior as an official National Guard unit earlier this year. (The unit began as a civilian paramilitary group during the 2014 Maidan revolution.)

    “In the first days, the separatists couldn’t even take apart a rifle,” said Azov’s 42-year-old deputy regiment commander at Urzuf who goes by the nom de guerre, Apis.

    “Now they have tanks and artillery and anti-aircraft weapons,” he added. “And now we face Russian soldiers. We’ve had to become more professional to fight them.”

    Azov’s base in Urzuf used to be the seaside villa of deposed Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. There are about 400 soldiers based here for the defense of Mariupol—an industrial city of 500,000 about 40 kilometers (25 miles) to the northeast.

    Yet, as the Ukraine war continues to escalate and as casualties mount, the Azov Battalion remains sidelined from the conflict, highlighting the uneasy relationship between the government in Kyiv and the many volunteer units on which it leaned heavily in the early days of the war.

    “We’re not satisfied to be off the front line,” said Vyniy, the commander of Azov’s public affairs unit,.

    “Actually,” he added, “we’re mad about it.”

    Benched

    In August the Ukrainian government pulled all volunteer battalions, including Azov, off the front lines around Mariupol, replacing them with regular military units. The move, according to Kyiv, was a routine rotation of troops that reflected the increased combat readiness of the country’s regular military.

    “The task of the Ukrainian armed forces is to deter aggression of the enemy,” Ukrainian General Staff Press Secretary Vladyslav Selezniov said Aug. 11, according to Ukrainska Pravda, a Ukrainian news site.

    “The National Guard and the Ministry of Interior have their own tasks, which they perform on the second and third lines of defense,” Selezniov added, according to the report. “At the moment, the Ukrainian armed forces are located along the entire line of defense.”

    Three Ukrainian Marine battalions and one artillery division were sent to Mariupol to bolster the city’s defenses as the volunteer units were withdrawn. Ukrainian Marines replaced the volunteer battalions in Shyrokyne. During the transition, Azov troops said they only had two hours to vacate their positions in Shyrokyne, which included a network of trenches from which they had been fighting for more than six months.

    “There was no handover at all,” Vyniy said.

    Public Pushback

    Volunteer units like the Azov Battalion played a key role in spring and summer 2014 when the advance of combined Russian-separatist forces put Ukraine’s regular army on the defensive. And as the war has dragged on, the volunteer units have developed into some of Ukraine’s most battle-hardened and well-trained fighting forces.

    Along with government forces, the Azov Battalion successfully fought in June 2014 to take Mariupol back from separatist control. Since then, Azov soldiers have fought in near daily battles on the city’s outskirts, repelling combined Russian-separatist attacks, including a tank battle in September 2014, and have endured a grinding, static trench and urban warfare battle for control of Shyrokyne.

    Apis said officials in Kyiv claimed the recent withdrawal from Shyrokyne was due to high casualty rates among volunteer units. “They told us we had too many casualties,” Apis said. “But our casualties have been lower than the regular army’s.”

    Fighting has escalated along the front lines near Mariupol in the past several weeks, including an artillery attack on Aug. 26, which killed seven Ukrainian soldiers.

    On Aug. 16, when combined Russian-separatist forces shelled the village of Sartana on Mariupol’s periphery with 152-mm artillery, killing three civilians, Azov soldiers went on alert and waited for orders to join the fight.

    “We wanted to go to Sartana, but we had no orders,” Vyniy said.

    On Aug. 17, the Ukrainian news site UNIAN reported that the Donbas Battalion— another volunteer unit, which had been pulled out of Shyrokyne like the Azov Battalion—had been redeployed near the line of contact outside Mariupol. Yet, despite the recent escalation, the 400 Azov soldiers remain at garrison in Urzuf.

    Motives

    There is speculation in Ukrainian media reports and on social media that the decision to pull the volunteer units back from the front lines around Mariupol was politically motivated and part of a larger move to neutralize the various volunteer units.

    In an April 2015 report for the Swedish Defense Research Agency, Margarete Klein wrote:

    “Volunteer battalions represent both an opportunity and a potential risk for Ukraine’s fragile statehood and democratization prospects. Particularly during the first months of ATO (Anti-Terrorist Operation), the volunteer organizations with their high fighting spirit contributed significantly to containing the separatists.”

    “However,” Klein added, “there is still a real risk of volunteer formations becoming politicized or turning into private armies.”

    There is a growing sense of national frustration with the government in Kyiv due to its prosecution of the war in the Donbas, the country’s flailing economy and the slow pace of pro-democracy and anti-corruption reforms.

    According to a Pew Research Center poll published June 10, only about a third (32 percent) of Ukrainian respondents said the Kyiv government was having a positive impact—a 15 percent drop in one year—and 59 percent of respondents said the central government was negatively affecting the country.

    “In addition to dissatisfaction with economic conditions, Ukrainians express little faith in some of their country’s major institutions,” the Pew report said.

    Ukraine’s volunteer battalions, conversely, enjoy broad public support.

    Continued.....

    “Everybody in Azov now considers Mariupol their native city,” Vyniy said. “It’s hard to just sit here and do nothing while it’s being attacked.”

    Continued...........

  11. #1871
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    These are the results of the Obama and his NSC demanded unilateral appeasement moves in the Mariupol zone placed on the Ukraine as a "sign of good faith" towards Putin which BTW he had actually demanded not discussed--but demanded.

    Obama urges Russia to fulfill the Minsk 2 agreements.

    WTH is the term "urges"??? as a form of diplomatic resolution???--actually just words and nothing more and even a Page in the US Senate could repeat them--"urges" says nothing about "intent".

    REMEMBER 2014 when Obama publicly stated- "we will judge Putin on his actions not words"--well it seems Putin really does not care what Obama says as he knows Obama wants his "legacy".

    Tymchuk: #Russia sent 150 tanks, 50 AFVs, 50 SPGs, 32 MLRS and 250 trucks + 15 train convoys of ammo to #Ukraine in August alone

    ATO Staff Spokesperson: Russia-backed militants violated ceasefire 291 times over the last three days

    Zakharchenko says #DPR won't stop offensive until they reach min goal, extending DPR to whole #Donbas including #Sloviansk & #Mariupol

    Telmanove local reports: all "local rebels" are sent to front. Telmanove occupied by regular russians, they claim "it's russia here already"

  12. #1872
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    Well finally out of the fog of "weaponized information warfare propaganda" the Russian mercenaries clearly state what I have been saying here for over five weeks now--there is in fact a Russian general offensive being slow stepped so as to not wake up Western leaders to the seriousness thus the Russian attempt to avoid further sanctions AND it seems to be working as the entire western mainstream media is still effectively asleep at the wheel.


    Zakharchenko says #DPR won't stop offensive until they reach min goal, extending DPR to whole #Donbas including #Sloviansk & #Mariupol


    Perfect example of the fog of war--yesterday with blaring trumpets the Russian troops and mercenaries announced with a great propaganda fanfare--they are going to complete ceasefire on 1 Sept 2015.

    Well if one is going to a complete ceasefire THEN why the continuing heavy fighting???

    THEN WHY are the heavy weapons and munitions by the tons????

    Tymchuk: #Russia sent 150 tanks, 50 AFVs, 50 SPGs, 32 MLRS and 250 trucks + 15 train convoys of ammo to #Ukraine in August alone
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-28-2015 at 12:53 PM.

  13. #1873
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    Still think Zakharchenko/Plotnitsky run things in DPR/LPR? Lt-Gen Serdyukov, Cmdr Russian occupation forces in Donbas pic.twitter.com/AhtaAaNL74

    Carpathian Sich report last night militants shelled their positions with GRAD. 2 fighters were lightly injured
    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...26&__tn__=%2As

    Yesterday militants again fired on Mariinka CP, using mortars + RPGs. 2 enemy drone flights recorded - Border guards
    http://dpsu.gov.ua/ua/about/news/news_8394.htm

    Report: Dutch have even names of the RU Buk missile crew that shot down #MH17 http://carabaas.livejournal.com/15241370.html pic.twitter.com/kYZsNysqsh

    Source of this remarkable footage of Givi's #Donetsk airport base:@Aero_Dnipro1
    https://twitter.com/RobPulseNews/sta...36230506315776

  14. #1874
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    Ukr troops incurred no casualties over the last day, 5 servicemen were WIA - #ATO daily report

    Russia is nearing KIA numbers in denied invasion of Ukraine that US suffered in 14 years of conflict in Afghanistan - http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/26/ru...ine-body-count

  15. #1875
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    And who says that the Russian informational warfare which is built on two concepts—“weaponization of information” and cyber warfare/cyber crime is not the key to the success of UW conflicts in the coming 21st century. Appears Russia, IS, Iran and China all have their own versions of “informational warfare and they are employing them 365 X 24 X 7.

    While we still spend massive amounts of time discussing the problem while never finding a solution nor strategy to defeat it—typical western approach.

    Hacker Killed by Drone Was Islamic State’s ‘Secret Weapon’
    Targeting of Islamic State’s electronics expert shows how digital warfare has upset balance of power on modern battlefield

  16. #1876
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    And who says that the Russian informational warfare which is built on two concepts—“weaponization of information” and cyber warfare/cyber crime is not the key to the success of UW conflicts in the coming 21st century. Appears Russia, IS, Iran and China all have their own versions of “informational warfare and they are employing them 365 X 24 X 7.

    While we still spend massive amounts of time discussing the problem while never finding a solution nor strategy to defeat it—typical western approach.

    Hacker Killed by Drone Was Islamic State’s ‘Secret Weapon’
    Targeting of Islamic State’s electronics expert shows how digital warfare has upset balance of power on modern battlefield
    EU declares info war on Russia, promises no propaganda
    http://www.politico.eu/article/russi...isinformation/
    Why not just support indie media then? pic.twitter.com/gca3xw0RJF

    Social media has been carrying the burden of rebuttal and yet not a single supporting word or funding comes from the EU/NATO/US.

  17. #1877
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    Russian use of "weaponization of information" to rebut the leaked article on the number of Russian troops killed and seriously maimed in the Ukraine.

    Social media has in fact verified the archived document to be valid and yet Russian Today is attempting to spin it as a faked report.

    Who slipped? How fake report on ‘Russian soldier deaths’ in Ukraine set MSM on fire
    Published time: 27 Aug, 2015 22:10
    Edited time: 28 Aug, 2015 09:05

    A Forbes report on alleged Russian army casualties in Ukraine citing a dodgy Russian website has sparked a media and Twitter storm. Some said Russia had “finally slipped” with the leak on its troops in Ukraine; others were baffled by the “fake publication.” RT decided to investigate.

    A Forbes contributor, Paul Roderick Gregory, published an article on Wednesday citing a Russian web source called “Delovaya Zhizn” (translated as Business Life), which was said to reveal “official figures on the number of Russian soldiers killed or made invalids in eastern Ukraine.”

    The report, dated March 2015 and entitled “Increases in Pay for Military in 2015,” was altered, with the relevant information being removed, after the Forbes publication came out. However, the original copy was webcached by Google.

    The cache shows that the website, which has articles on Russian finance, markets and leisure, claimed that the Russian government had paid monetary compensation to Russian soldiers who “took part in military actions in Eastern Ukraine.”

    Without citing a source, the article claimed that as of February 1, more than 2,000 families of soldiers killed in Ukraine had received compensation of 3 million rubles (about $50,000) and those crippled during military action – a half million rubles (about $25,000). It added that another 3,200 soldiers wounded in battle had received compensation of 1,800 rubles for every day they were in the conflict zone.

    The Forbes contributor accused “Russian censors” for “quickly removing the offending material.”

    The Forbes report was picked up by Western media and independent journalists. The International Business Times reported that the Russian article had “accidentally published the leaked figures.”

    An article by The Independent on Wednesday called Delovaya Zhizn a “respected news site in Russia,” and cited the head of the Russia and Eurasia Programme at Chatham House, James Nixey, who said that the report is a “nail in the coffin” in proving Russia is engaged in military action.

    Another media outlet piling on was was Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL), which claimed it had received a response from some Anatoly Kravchenko from Delovaya Zhizn, who said the website had “received the casualty figures from relatives of dead servicemen as well as ‘insider information’ from the Russian Defense Ministry.” However, they added that the website’s representative had “declined to identify any specific sources.”

  18. #1878
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    TASS ✔ @tassagency_en
    Merkel's spokesman says no change in stance on sanctions against Russia http://tass.ru/en/world/817214

    YET Merkel and her FM Steinmeier never say anything publicly about the ongoing general offense and the killing of Ukrainian military personnel as well as civilians—not a single word.

    Dear @OSCE_SMM, if you don't mind, go there and see Givi's three T-72 (#MinskBreach)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkhj...ature=youtu.be
    #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/UoIyXwtDLZ

    Detained Odessa police chief apparently working for the #Russia|n's in Donbas:
    http://www.048.ua/news/940812
    pic.twitter.com/eoylZhQtC5

  19. #1879
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    Russian troops and her mercenary command and control structure--

    The command structure of the #Russia|n occupation forces #Donbas
    pic.twitter.com/kn0Gajs3if

    Both are chart graphics---

    The number of militants and #Russia|n troops in #Donbas #Ukraine
    pic.twitter.com/Dfsvvy0XRU

    Graphics---

    Evidence of violations of Minsk agreements by militants and Russian curators
    http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/28-augu...nsk-agreements … pic.twitter.com/klIdBkt0dV
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-28-2015 at 02:26 PM.

  20. #1880
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    Shellings have not really stopped during the day--attack numbers will be high again---

    16:15 #Donetsk @PVB40 [fb] 1 route clearance vehicle, 1 BMP, 2 trucks with troops

    Maryinka @mariinka_UA There was no battle, some shots, direct hits https://twitter.com/loogunda/status/637263882512396288

    14:19 #Maryinka @mariinka_UA [ok.ru] #186-#190, Lenina St - houses on fire

    14:40 #Maryinka @666_mancer [vk] Battle's on, shooting is audible, booms sometimes

    13:50 #Horlivka @tgorlovka In #Bessarabka settlement one can hear shooting.
    13:57 Incoming ones are heard there too

    From yesterday's Russian shellings---
    Ukraine responded to attack which killed 6 soldiers & wounded 2, wounding 51 #Putin troops
    https://translate.googleusercontent....VnQjbhtbl6Ki1Q … pic.twitter.com/41xVEhIV1p
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 08-28-2015 at 02:30 PM.

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