Ukrainian Civil War

[Misifus]

Ukraine. Well maybe when Russia is through with Ukraine they will turn right and come across the North German Plain.

I mean Europe did want the US out of Europe, and Bush 1 declared a "peace dividend."

Think we will stay out of this one and just watch. Next time be more appreciative.

[davidbfpo]

I have moved a few posts by Outlaw 09 that refer generally to the Ukrainian conflict to the main thread.

If this thread is to be used for posts on the events away from the 'main front' along the eastern border in the Donbass, that is OK. I am not convinced this thread is about a 'civil war', it appears to be a new variant on organised crime -v- state authorities (and rivals).

[davidbfpo]

An Open Democracy article by a Ukrainian on what happened. It ends with:

...according to surveys, only 3% of Ukrainian citizens share the radical views of Right Sector. Unfortunately, firearms can quickly compensate for a lack of popular support.

Link:https://www.opendemocracy.net/valery...kraine-to-test

[OUTLAW 09]

An Open Democracy article by a Ukrainian on what happened. It ends with:
Link:https://www.opendemocracy.net/valery...kraine-to-test

Here is the internal thinking of Ukrainians--they actually do listen to PS or Right Sector in English have to say--they have respect for them as a nationalist grouping who fought hard on the Maidan and walked away with a good Maidan reputation.

But in the election did it translate into votes and representatives in the Rada--no ---as they did not cross the required percentage threshold and in a recent poll this week the RS leader only drew 7% potential votes as the Ukrainian President if elections were held now.

But as a favorite Russian propaganda targeted group they are a big hit in Moscow because they are called Nazi's.

But what they have focused themselves on ---namely massive corruption, the oligarch criminal gangs and leaders and the fiefdoms of the oligarchs echoes well with Ukrainians as for all of the reform laws that have been passed still no single oligarch/judge/police officer. State Security officer has landed in jail for their corruption and or outright theft of industries in the transition from the Soviet system to the Ukrainian model.

There is also respect for their fighting abilities on the eastern front lines in the early days of 2014 against the mercenaries.

But the article is right--there are weapons everywhere---even in St. Petersburg the Russia FSB just arrested a returning mercenary who had fought in a mercenary tank unit for having a large supply of explosives--this is whiplashing back on Russia as well.

[OUTLAW 09]

вівторок, 21 липня 2015 р.


"Right Sector" continue to fight drug trafficking in Kharkiv

Another storehouse with poppy and chemical reagents, which are usually using for preparing of drug injections, was neutralised in Kharkiv on July 18 by the soldiers of the 15th "Right Sector" battalion in cooperation with comrades from the "Azov" regiment.

About a three tones of materials for the manufacture of narcotic injections was found in a warehouse in result of search. Six cubes of drug injection can be made from one kilogram of these materials, that's enough for a drug addict to make three injections.

To avoid insinuations, all the nationalists actions was carried in the presence of the press, who have fixed the visual evidence of storage and production of banned chemicals. Then the police and expert services was called to the storehouse for fixing the fact of crime.

[Dishonesty]

BREAKING: Thousands of #RightSector activists rally in Kiev: Complain at being only fascists in #Europe not getting #Kremlin funding

https://twitter.com/Sputnik_Intl/sta...46973661097984

[OUTLAW 09]

Author argues that there is no civil war in the Ukraine but rather a Russian Ukrainian war.

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.de/...ussia-now.html

Thursday, July 23, 2015

Having Launched a ‘Hybrid’ War, Russia Now has a ‘Hybrid’ Army, Babchenko Says

Paul Goble

Staunton, July 23 – Having launched a “hybrid” war giving it plausible deniability for many, Russia now has a “hybrid” army, a development that Moscow may not understand the full implications of and one that should give everyone pause, according to Russian commentator Arkady Babchenko. (kasparov.ru/material.php?id=55AFB6162F549).

Babchenko notes that Moscow has insisted that between two-thirds and three-quarters of those fighting on the Russian side in Ukraine are local people, with the rest being Russian volunteers. Consequently, the Ukrainian conflict is “a civil war,” with “a certain people of the Donbas resisting colonization” by Kyiv (kasparov.ru/material.php?id=55AFB6162F549).

All right, the analyst says, “let’s consider one aspect of this assertion, leaving aside all the rest,” including the fact that Russia has a troop concentration on the Ukrainian border comparable in size to the entire Ukrainian military, that units of that force have gone into Ukraine on occasion, and that they have fired from Russian territory unto Ukrainian land.

And “let’s leave in peace even Crimea,” about which there are really “no more questions” because what is involved there is “annexation and occupation of the purest kind.”

Instead, Babchenko says, “let’s consider a single argument: the existence of a certain mythical ‘people of the Donbas.’” Let’s even allow that “such an ethno-cultural group exists. Let’s not carp: there is a people of the Moscow region, there is a people of Northern Butovo; there is a people of Kuusinen Street, and so there is a people of the Donbas.”

In that event and if we define “a people by its place of residence,” then there is no other possible conclusion except that “this is not a Ukrainian civil war.” Instead, “it is a Buryat-Ukrainian war, and also a Chechen-Ukrainian one, and also an Osetin-Ukrainian conflict; and yet again a Ekaterinburg-Ukrainian war.”

(Those who say that “the people of Ekaterinburg” are too few to count forget that the number of people fighting on Moscow’s side in the Donbas is much smaller than their total, he points out.)

But if one comes to the obvious conclusion that the definition of the sides in the war according to “a mythical people or more precisely the place of the recruiting of the combatants is not possible, then one is driven to the very simple conclusion: “Russian began this war. Russia occupied part of the territory of a neighboring country.”

Moreover, Babchenko continues, “Russia sent in diversionary groups and changed the governments, Russian formed the new institutions of power. Russia supplied arms.” Russia even provided uniforms and badges. Indeed, he writes, “having adopted the strategy of hybrid wars as its main principle, Russia itself has in effect transformed its own army into a hybrid one as well.
“The Donets militia is thus part of the hybrid Russian army which is distinguished from all the other parts of [Russia’s] hybrid army only by the fact that it is recruited on the territory of the Donbas,” something which has “exactly the same significance as if it were recruited in Buryatia or Kamyshlov or South Osetia.”

That is, precisely, “nothing” because the militants recruited on the territory of Ukraine’s Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts are “UNITS OF THE RUSSIAN ARMY.” And consequently, just as the recruiting of Russian soldiers in Buryatia doesn’t make this war a Buryat-Ukrainian one, so too, recruiting them in the Donbas doesn’t make it a Ukrainian civil war.

Consequently, Babchenko concludes, what is taking place, even if some won’t admit it, is nothing other than “a Russian-Ukrainian war.”