Understanding Indian Insurgencies

[omarali50]

I am very "indophilic" myself and am perfectly happy with India's prom queen status, so consider this friendly advice: one step India REALLY needs to take is to grow up about criticism and differentiate between malign criticism (examples can be found in the Pakistani press, and maybe in some extremist evangelical journals), careless criticism that lazily repeats stereotypes but is not fundamentally ill-intentioned (examples abound in the mainstream press) and constructive criticism.
A certain passive-aggressive prickliness is seen in all third world countries, but wouldnt it be great if an "emerging power" pulled away from relatively childish behavior and responded with more finesse and grace?
This is meant to be constructive criticism. Honestly.

[Ray]

I think you must not read much American media. The tone of coverage towards China is a mix of fascination mixed with fear. The better informed observers note China's enormous internal problems along with its impressive growth.

HRW has issued reports and press releases regarding Bahrain's repression of its demonstrations, the same as they have done for other HR violations. I'm a bit confused at why you would insist that they wouldn't do so:

http://www.hrw.org/middle-eastn-africa/bahrain

It is a good advice not to read the US media.

Unfortunately, the world is dependent on western media agencies for news because the domestic media does not have the finances to man media sources around the world or have reporters covering the globe.

Even on the internet since one is not conversant with the local languages, one cannot cull news first hand.

Therefore, there is no option but to read news obtained by our newspapers from western sources and also be influenced by opinions expressed thereof.

It is not easy for us out here not be influenced by western agencies reports and views.

Catch 22 for us.


What the HRW has reported in Bahrain is a weak report. The people coming from Bahrain have a different story to tell. If you see the news of today (Muharram) you will find the massacres unleashed by the Sunnis on the Shias. Does the HRW care about this? Selective attention is what it appears to be. You will know only about the massacre in Afghanistan done yesterday (?) since the western agencies are concerned about that.

Read the vernacular media of Pakistan. But then you cannot read it since you are not versed in Urdu, neither I can read it. What is said to be written is hearsay and none can go by that.

Has the HRW made capital of the atrocities in the Pakistan Occupied Northern Area (Balwaristan) which is Shia majority and are treated as second class and persecuted? Or the fact that the Pakistan Govt is changing the demography by settling Sunnis in Balwaristan.

Has the HRW reported on how Hindu women in Pakistan are being whisked away and converted in Islam and married off to Muslim. Right now, there is a whole lot of such Hindus who have come en mass and are refusing to return. Check the news. It maybe added, as it is, the Pakistanis have ensured that the Hindu, Christian or Parsi minority become a vanishing breed! Check the statistics from the time of Independence and now!

Therefore, HRW maybe wonderful for the western people, it does not enjoy the same wonderment in other parts of the world!

In so far as Kashmir is concerned, I have been there for a very long time in aggregate and various phases of the insurgency. On the so called massacres, it can be speculated as to who is responsible. It is not the terrorists are pure as driven snow. They have massacred many and where the graves of those they have killed one does not know. Then there were the surrendered or returned (from Pakistan) terrorists. They were formed into a group to take on the terrorists. They may have settled accounts.

The Hurriyat which is an organisation that is pro Pakistan and of which a part wants Kashmir to be with Pakistan and the others want Independence. They organise all the anti Govt movements and stone pelting. They pin anything and every thing on the Army since that gives political mileage and international attention. Therefore, it would be surprising if their people would not claim that the massacres are by the Indian Army. And such claims naturally make 'good copy' for the international media.

[Ray]

There's a great deal of Sinophobia in the US media, including among the commentariat. Much of it is pretty irrational, but phobias usually are. Politicians often find it expedient to direct attention toward an external bogeyman, lest the populace look for a domestic one.

As I said before, we are captive to western agencies reports and, like it or not, it influences our point of view.

It is the same way, the HRW is taken to be an honest, independent agency!!

Those who have seen them operate alone know how much is the wheat and how much is the chaff!

[Ray]

An Indian expert's commentary on the Indian state police and counter-terrorism:http://www.sunday-guardian.com/analy...nter-terrorism

Which ends with:

Davidbfpo,

The article should be adequate proof that our Home Ministry (something like the US Homeland Security) has no clue about terrorism or how to handle it.

The reason is very simple. None of our Ministers have had any military experience, hence they think that a police chap with a rifle is some sort of a bulwark between the terrorists and the population!

[Ray]

I am very "indophilic" myself and am perfectly happy with India's prom queen status, so consider this friendly advice: one step India REALLY needs to take is to grow up about criticism and differentiate between malign criticism (examples can be found in the Pakistani press, and maybe in some extremist evangelical journals), careless criticism that lazily repeats stereotypes but is not fundamentally ill-intentioned (examples abound in the mainstream press) and constructive criticism.
A certain passive-aggressive prickliness is seen in all third world countries, but wouldnt it be great if an "emerging power" pulled away from relatively childish behavior and responded with more finesse and grace?
This is meant to be constructive criticism. Honestly.

Well, I would beg to differ on the issue of India and the prom status. Since you are a Pakistani, you would understand that it is all phook. Massaging India's ego and encouraging false aura.

It is this inane idea that India is on the way to becoming a superpower and is the prom queen that veers issues from the stark reality.

The gullible, the confused and the insecure swallow it hook, line and sinker!

It is all very good to talk about 'prickly', 'passive aggressiveness', 'stereotype', 'childish behaviour', 'respond with finesse and grace' Semantics!

Only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches.

I maybe wrong, but I have found that the Westernised Oriental Gentleman (who occasionally visits the homeland, gleans 'facts' from interaction with the drawing room elite circuit and then posture that they are 'in the know'), tend to exhibit traits of thinking from a westernised mindset. It endears them to the western audience, and at the same time is quite fascinating to the gawking natives and so it become fashionable. I see and hear them on the TV debates out here and find it so amusing! It is almost appear as genuine in belief as Palin seeing Russia from her window!

Of course, there will also be those who are quite knowledgeable too and yet live in foreign shores.

[Ray]

I marvel at the way Mansoor Ijaz set the cat amongst the pigeons in Memogate and claimed that it was to leash the ISI and the Army.

He, to use an Americanism, spoke from both sides of his mouth!

A good WOG!

As they say in Punjabi - Ai bhi wah wah, tan bhi wah wah!

[Backwards Observer]

Western media tool Noam Chomsky speaks briefly on Kashmir:

SP - Prof Chomsky, Arundhati Roy was pressed with sedition charges for speaking on Kashmiri people’s right to self-determination. What is your take on self-determination, especially in the context of Kashmir?

NC - First I should say that Arundhati Roy should be greatly honored in India as a symbol of what could be great about the country. The fact that she is being charged with Sedition is utter outrage. And the anger and hatred that’s being organized against her is a real disgrace. But that’s Arundhati Roy, a marvelous person.

With regard to Kashmir, problems go back to the Partition. And there is plenty of responsibility on all sides. Keeping to India, India, of course refused to allow the referendum that was a condition on partition. (Thus, India) essentially took over the territory and (subsequent) conflict led to a Line of Control. There has been plenty of repression and violence. In late 1980’s there was an election but it was totally fraudulent. It led to an uprising which was put down with extreme violence. Tens of thousands of people have been killed in the Indian controlled areas of Kashmir. Tortures, atrocities have been pretty horrible.

Noam Chomsky on the Situation in Africa and the Middle East - Infoshop News - Mar 27, 2011.

[Ray]

Chomsky is an old man.

We respect age, but not necessarily the views.

Arundhuti Roy is a nice person.

She gives a very lurid and pornographic impression of her mother in her book, which made her a One Book Wonder.

She requires to remain relevant and what better than being fashionably pandering to 'India being a country where the half naked natives scamper in the bush'.

Chomsky is a western media tool? You live in China to believe that?

But then China is such a paragon of virtues!

[Ray]

I do hope you know the parameters of the Plebiscite.

If it is fulfilled, then lets have one!

Be good enough to fish out what Chomsky has to say of the US and China.

[Ray]

Backward,

In three resolutions, the UN Security Council and the United Nations Commission in India and Pakistan recommended that as already agreed by Indian and Pakistani leaders, a plebiscite should be held to determine the future allegiance of the entire state.

As a prerequisite they required Pakistani nationals and tribesmen, who had come to fight in Kashmir, be withdrawn.

Plebiscite abandoned

But in the 1950s, the Indian Government distanced itself from its commitment to hold a plebiscite.

This was firstly because Pakistani forces had not been withdrawn and secondly because elections affirming the state's status as part of India had been held.

I am quoting from BBC - the western media which seems to be your staple!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1766582.stm

It is time to educate oneself before commenting!

[Ray]

In late 1980’s there was an election but it was totally fraudulent.

It is all about perceptions.

The country that is the champion of Freedom and Democracy and which hectors all, also was said to have elected its President in a fraudulent way.

Bush and Florida where his brother was the Governor! Fraudulent and rigging and nepotism?

What do you say on that?

US may have reconciled to it, but we feel it was a wholesale fraud.

And if we controlled the world media and opinion as the US does, it would stick and become the Gospel Truth!

So, one has to use one's insight to realise what is the reality and what is fantasy.

Even Putin is being bamboozled for fraud on the recent election.

So, only the western countries are the real second coming of Jesus?

I wonder what Mao said. He said the Chinese are frogs in the well!

He maybe hailed as the Great Helmsman by the subservient Chinese honed into submission by the Theory of Legalism, but is he correct?

Maybe you would be delighted if the world (except China) had leader like that drunken Yeltsin, who for a bottle of vodka would sell his country!

[Backwards Observer]

In so far as Kashmir is concerned, I have been there for a very long time in aggregate and various phases of the insurgency. On the so called massacres, it can be speculated as to who is responsible. It is not the terrorists are pure as driven snow. They have massacred many and where the graves of those they have killed one does not know. Then there were the surrendered or returned (from Pakistan) terrorists. They were formed into a group to take on the terrorists. They may have settled accounts.

Ray, a colourful and vibrant series of posts from you! I'll just say that I thought your explanation here sounded plausible. I trust that a thorough and transparent investigation will bear you out. Now don't let me interrupt you, you seem to be enjoying yourself.

[Dayuhan]

And if we controlled the world media and opinion as the US does, it would stick and become the Gospel Truth!

If the US controls world opinion, how come everybody thinks we're assholes? Just sayin', you know... it seems like a strange way to use control. You'd think we'd use that control to make somebody somewhere like us. Maybe it's all part of some Grand Sinister Conspiracy.

So, one has to use one's insight to realise what is the reality and what is fantasy.

And of course one's insight is invariably free of prejudice and preconception...

So, only the western countries are the real second coming of Jesus?

Neither Jesus nor Satan, just another bunch of clumsy folks trying to get by and occasionally making a mess. Doesn't seem so hard to figure that out, unless you really really want to see one extreme or the other.

[Backwards Observer]

From the always entertaining Heritage Foundation:

US-Australia-India: A possible new alliance

It is wrong to view the proposed India-Australia-US cooperation agreement as a military pact being planned to contain the rising influence of China.

[..]

Some of the media coverage of the prospects for US-India-Australia trilateral cooperation is misleading. No one in his or her right mind believes a trilateral ‘security pact’ is in the offing. The goal is really to promote a stable and predictable order in the Indo-Pacific.

[...]

The US, Australia and India have ‘intersecting’, not ‘identical’ interests. There are things we disagree on. Geography alone dictates that we see the world from slightly different angles. But there is enough commonality in our world views and our challenges that we should consider those areas where our perspectives do overlap and work together where it is in our mutual interest.

(Lisa Curtis is Senior Research Fellow and Walter Lohman is Director, Asian Studies, with the Heritage Foundation.)

US-Australia-India: A possible new alliance - The Pioneer - Dec 6, 2011.

Stable and predictable...yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot.

maybe I'm a chinese jet pilot - youtube

[Ray]

If the US controls world opinion, how come everybody thinks we're assholes? Just sayin', you know... it seems like a strange way to use control. You'd think we'd use that control to make somebody somewhere like us. Maybe it's all part of some Grand Sinister Conspiracy.

I would not use such a term for the US, since in our part of the world, it is rather offensive a word.

Even though the opinion of many is shaped by news and commentaries of the western agencies and think tanks, it is only when one finds incongruity in the word and deed that one revises one's opinion.

For instance bringing Freedom and Democracy to Iraq, when Rwanda and Zimbabwe were witnessing worse human rights atrocities. And when WMD was not found in Iraq inspite of repeated assertions, one realised that one has been taken for a ride.


On the issue of Grand Conspiracy:

You may like to see the turmoil going on currently in India on Retail in FDI. Likewise, Monsanto seeds were touted as the saviour of Indian agriculture with lot of western hype and also touted by the Indian business lobby and all that came about was that it has only caused a whole lot of farmers suicides.

Many years ago, PL 480 wheat from the US gave rise to the epidemic caused by Congress grass brought in by the contaminated wheat!

I would not call it any conspiracy, grand or otherwise.

[Ray]

Backward,

You have to know India to understand India.

It is good that you have posted this link

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnis...-alliance.html

But have you no comments or wise analysis to make except a vague 'Stable and Predictable.......yeah, maybe I am a Chinese jet pilot'?

Not much to go by unless you are the type who is merely enamoured with the tote count! :rofl:

[Backwards Observer]

But have you no comments or wise analysis to make except a vague 'Stable and Predictable.......yeah, maybe I am a Chinese jet pilot'?

Not much to go by unless you are the type who is merely enamoured with the tote count! :rofl:

Ray, a fair point! I've decided to take your advice above and educate myself before commenting. Lacking your enviable mental agility, I fear that I may find it more educational to read your posts than to respond to them.

Somewhat off-topic, and if I recall correctly you self-identify as a Christian so you may not be able to answer this, but do you think the Buddha is an avatar of Vishnu?

[Ray]

I would not know. It is not material for me to know in my country; India is a secular country. Each to his own belief.

However, I am a bit perplexed as to what has Buddha, Vishnu got to with Indian insurgencies.

[SWJ Blog]

Long Live Mao: Modern Insurgency in the Republic of India

Entry Excerpt:



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[SWJ Blog]

Mod's Note: Copied to thread for reference, the primary venue for responses is on SWJ Blog.

Long Live Mao: Modern Insurgency in the Republic of India

Entry Excerpt:



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Read the full post and make any comments at the SWJ Blog.
This forum is a feed only and is closed to user comments.