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Thread: Understanding Indian Insurgencies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    I would not know. It is not material for me to know in my country; India is a secular country. Each to his own belief.

    However, I am a bit perplexed as to what has Buddha, Vishnu got to with Indian insurgencies.
    Well, from what little I know of the subject, Buddhism presented a direct challenge to the dominant traditions of Hinduism. The response by Hinduism was to more or less absorb Buddhism, mainly through the designation of the Buddha as the twenty-fourth avatar of Vishnu.

    Not essentially a topic of insurgency, just something I was curious about and I thought you might have an insight. Thanks for your reply.

    Now back to your regular schedule of Western media angst and Sinophobic China-bashing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwards Observer View Post
    Well, from what little I know of the subject, Buddhism presented a direct challenge to the dominant traditions of Hinduism. The response by Hinduism was to more or less absorb Buddhism, mainly through the designation of the Buddha as the twenty-fourth avatar of Vishnu.

    Not essentially a topic of insurgency, just something I was curious about and I thought you might have an insight. Thanks for your reply.

    Now back to your regular schedule of Western media angst and Sinophobic China-bashing!
    Buddhism or any other religion with origin in India had coexisted through centuries with Hinduism.

    Do start a thread on India and its history instead of mixing issues, unless you have some good reason or agenda behind it!

    I am sure if you do, someone who is more conversant with the same would enlighten you.

    One does not have to bash China. One would feel that it is but self flagellation that they do. Or else why claim half the world as yours i.e. China's?

    BTW it might bring joy. Hu has told China to rapidly modernise their navy and be prepared for warfare.

    This has been reported by a Sydney newspaper.

    You being in Australia can check that out!

    Don't worry about the Indo US equation. Last heard is that is a 'strategic relationship'! Take it for what it is worth!

    I apologise that I do not have unique expertise of stating issues in a round about way, wherein is what is to be said is said, and yet it is not said so clearly.

    Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.
    Sun Tzu

    I do admire the Chinese and those who can emulate them.

    Hopefully one day I will learn how not to be colourful or vibrant as so succinctly put by you!
    Last edited by Ray; 12-07-2011 at 02:53 PM.

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    NGOs tend to follow the behaviour of their back donors......However, since those donors who are interested in the politics and is least interested in the poverty, are also the most reluctant to also provide with any extra room for manoeuvre.......
    Link

    The operative words are - politics and least interested in poverty!

    In short - promote their agenda!

    EU has recently announced that it will stop aid to India, China and Brazil amongst others.

    http://www.timesofindia.indiatimes.c...w/11020436.cms

    A good thing actually.
    Last edited by Ray; 12-07-2011 at 04:40 PM.

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    Default Counterinsurgency in India: The Maoists

    Counterinsurgency in India: The Maoists

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    Default Understanding Indian Insurgencies

    Mod's Note: Copied to thread for reference, the primary venue for responses is on SWJ Blog.

    Counterinsurgency in India: The Maoists

    http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/an-...-the-naxalites



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    Last edited by davidbfpo; 12-08-2011 at 04:45 PM. Reason: Mod's note and copied to here two days in a row

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    On Kashmir insurgency and how it is showcased.

    http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-sho...s/20111208.htm

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    Default An Insurgency Overlooked: India and the Naxalites

    An Insurgency Overlooked: India and the Naxalites

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    KASHMIR: In "Srinagar" a youth killed for defying stone pelters(the separatists)

    n what is a shocking incident, Tariq Ahmad Bhat, 25, was beaten by stone-pelters at Gojwara in Srinagar on Dec 3, 2011, when he refused to shut down his shop in response to a separatist-called shutdown....


    High tension gripped the old city areas of Srinagar as the news spread about the death of a local young man beaten by some stone-pelters. Tariq Ahmad Bhat, 25, was beaten by stone-pelters in the Gojwara neighbourhood of the old city on December 3, 2011, when he refused to shut down his shop in response to a separatist-called shutdown.

    He was reportedly hit on the head with a cricket bat. Tariq was admitted to a local hospital where he battled for life for the last eleven days.
    http://www.timesnow.tv/

    http://www.timesnow.tv/Srinagar-Kill...ow/4391427.cms

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    Default Hundreds of insurgents surrender in North East India

    Assam: 1855 militants surrender before Chidambaram IBNLive.com PTI Guwahati: In one of the largest surrender ceremonies in the North East region, 1855 militants belonging to nine groups on Tuesday bid a farewell to arms before Union Home Minister P Chidambaram and received roses for weapons turned in.

    http://newsmaster.in/?p=50717

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...nMQ_story.html

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    Default Indian reflections on terrorism

    Attached is an Indian book review of 'Terrorism - Patterns of Internationalisation', by Jaideep Saikia and Ekaterina Stepanova, pub.2009, added here as it reflects the reviewer's outlook, as a senior retired police & intelligence officer.

    Link to:http://www.amazon.com/Terrorism-Patt...5899053&sr=1-3
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 05-01-2012 at 07:05 PM.
    davidbfpo

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    Commentary on Indian COIN:

    http://www.opendemocracy.net/opensec...wing-extremism

    The Maoist insurgency once described as the single greatest threat to the Indian state has lowered in intensity. But the success of the government's COIN approach may not deliver a peace, but an entrenchment of the cycle between stalemate and further violence...
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”

    H.L. Mencken

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    There are foreign influences, influence of the NGOs to include foreign funded NGOs, too many security agencies under different ministries and since it is taken as a law and order issue, the States come into play as law and order is a State subject.

    Hence, their is no unified approach.

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    I'm curious about these things, since our friendly neighborhood rebels are also Maoists working in a democracy, an environment in which theoretically they shouldn't thrive.

    So some questions, just to compare...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    There are foreign influences, influence of the NGOs to include foreign funded NGOs, too many security agencies under different ministries and since it is taken as a law and order issue, the States come into play as law and order is a State subject.

    Hence, their is no unified approach.
    What would you say the foreign influences are? From what sources? Purely influence, or direct assistance?

    How does the NGO influence work? Actively encouraging rebellion, or more indirect?

    I noticed this item in the cited article:

    The foot soldiers who had joined the Maoist movement in the later years had little interest in furthering the people's war, but joined for the pecuniary benefits the movement was offering.
    Would you agree with that? If so, it makes me curious about where the movement gets its money. Pecuniary benefits for a force of 40k+ runs to a fair bit of the ol' pecunia.

    Are the Maoists strongest in tribal areas? In particular, are they strongest in tribal areas where administrative and government posts are predominantly controlled by non-tribals?
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”

    H.L. Mencken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayuhan View Post
    I'm curious about these things, since our friendly neighborhood rebels are also Maoists working in a democracy, an environment in which theoretically they shouldn't thrive.

    So some questions, just to compare...



    What would you say the foreign influences are? From what sources? Purely influence, or direct assistance?

    How does the NGO influence work? Actively encouraging rebellion, or more indirect?

    I noticed this item in the cited article:



    Would you agree with that? If so, it makes me curious about where the movement gets its money. Pecuniary benefits for a force of 40k+ runs to a fair bit of the ol' pecunia.

    Are the Maoists strongest in tribal areas? In particular, are they strongest in tribal areas where administrative and government posts are predominantly controlled by non-tribals?
    The media has indicated that Foreign NGOs do encourage militancy. The Church has a great influence upon the tribal and the people of the NE.

    I have it from a Governor of one of the NE States of how elections and life is swayed by the Church in that State and in the NE. In fact, he used to request the Church to assist if there was any knotty problem to solve.

    China has been given proof of their involvement.

    How things happen indirectly to influence and even assist is given very lucidly in the book Ugly American. I was a high school student when the book came out and one could see the same happening in India and I felt very sad for the US, which was giving India a lot of aid, but Russia was on the ball! And both were doing their best to influence the Govt and the people.
    Last edited by Ray; 08-19-2012 at 03:57 PM.

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    Posted by Dayuhan,

    I'm curious about these things, since our friendly neighborhood rebels are also Maoists working in a democracy, an environment in which theoretically they shouldn't thrive
    .

    This returns us to the overarching U.S. philosophical assumption that establishing a democracy and free market are the decisive actions for defeating (many interpretations) an insurgency. I'm not sure how many times this will have to be disproven before we have our aha moment that is not a universal law.

    The levels of corruption in both India and the Philippines largely make their democracies irrelevant to vast portions of the population to begin with (I realize I'm arguing against myself, but I'm trying to be fair).

    For external support the Maoists throughout S. Asia are interconnected to some degree, and of course the adage that an enemy of my enemy if my friend applies, so it isn't unreasonable to believe the Maoists in India are receiving some support from state actors hostile to India.

    In the Philippines the NPA at its current level of activity can probably sustain itself through various criminal activities and taxes.

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/20/wo..._r=2&ref=world

    India Asks Pakistan to Investigate Root of Panic

    “We want people to know that the bulk of this was done from Pakistan,” Home Secretary R. K. Singh told reporters in New Delhi on Saturday night. He added, “A total of 76 Web sites were identified where morphed images were uploaded, and the bulk of these were uploaded in Pakistan.”
    Then, authorities say, misleading cellphone text messages and other social media messages began circulating on Wednesday with warnings that Muslims would attack northeastern students and migrants. Tens of thousands of people hurriedly boarded overcrowded trains to the northeast as leaders pleaded for calm.
    This article is interesting on several levels for what it portends. State and non-state actors have the ability to exploit a tense situation by distributing disinformation over the internet and social media. The new part is the speed and momentum these tactics facilitate compared to print, radio, and whisper campaigns which all require some degree of direct access.

    Next article is just a reminder that old ideological foes still exist and they have their own networks that are regional and sometimes global.

    http://kasamaproject.org/2011/03/27/...asian-maoists/

    In spite of challenges, the opportunities are bright. In fact, bigger the challenge brighter is the opportunity. In order to transform this potential into reality the communist revolutionaries have to
    •engage in serious ideological and political struggle to defeat the wrong trends in the communist movement, principally revisionism;
    • develop strong ideological and political unity and common resolve among themselves;
    • build up regional mechanism for cooperation to fight imperialism, Indian expansionist hegemony and advance revolution;
    • establish the inevitability and invincibility of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism among the broad masses;
    • unite the entire national and democratic movements and just struggles broadly to the extent they can go together to fight the principal enemy.
    • unite with Maoist and all fighting forces throughout the world.

    Seize power where it is possible, develop ongoing people’s wars to higher levels, prepare and initiate people’s war where parties exist and build up parties where they don’t – this should be the working orientation of Maoist revolutionaries.

    It is a declared fact that CCOMPOSA has been formed to unite the Maoist revolutionaries of South Asia and fight Indian expansionist hegemony and imperialism in the region. Apart from accomplishing its responsibility in this region, CCOMPOSA, as a part and parcel of the international communist movement, must discharge its internationalist duties to further the cause of world proletarian revolution.

  17. #117
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    Default Pardon the interrogation, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    The media has indicated that Foreign NGOs do encourage militancy.
    How credible are the media reports? What foreign NGOs are involved, and what are they allegedly doing to encourage militancy?

    Here we have a number of (predominantly local) NGOs that are essentially extensions and above-ground fronts for the armed movements. Foreign NGOs and local counterparts are involved, but often in a different way. At times they encourage resistance to government in ways that actually compete with the armed movements, offering peaceful political means toward similar goals, predominantly the goal of helping indigenous populations resist intrusion by extractive industry and outside settlers. I'd be interested in hearing if a similar dynamic plays out there. When NGOs help organize (for example) rallies or protests against perceived "development aggression", that's often seen, at least by some, as encouraging militancy. In practice, at least here, it plays out rather differently on the ground: if people see peaceful means of protecting themselves they are sometimes less interested in resorting to violence (unless of course the peaceful means are suppressed), and peaceful resistance can be an important safety valve, releasing tension before it reaches the point of violence. It's most effective, of course, when it works. If government ignores or steps on peaceful resistance, violent movements will take advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    The Church has a great influence upon the tribal and the people of the NE.
    Which church(es), and how is that influence typically used?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    China has been given proof of their involvement.
    What's the nature and extent of that involvement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    How things happen indirectly to influence and even assist is given very lucidly in the book Ugly American. I was a high school student when the book came out and one could see the same happening in India and I felt very sad for the US, which was giving India a lot of aid, but Russia was on the ball! And both were doing their best to influence the Govt and the people.
    Certainly foreign parties try to influence these situations, but they don't always succeed. That influence is often overstated, especially by governments that would rather blame an insurgency on foreign subversion than address their own governance issues.

    I'm still curious about the allegation in the article cited earlier that many of the fighters are in it for the money. Is that true? If so, where's the money coming from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    This returns us to the overarching U.S. philosophical assumption that establishing a democracy and free market are the decisive actions for defeating (many interpretations) an insurgency. I'm not sure how many times this will have to be disproven before we have our aha moment that is not a universal law.
    I certainly wouldn't say that's a universal law, but I would point out that the NPA have been significantly eroded since the fall of Marcos. The symbiotic relationship between dictator and rebel is often under-appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    The levels of corruption in both India and the Philippines largely make their democracies irrelevant to vast portions of the population to begin with (I realize I'm arguing against myself, but I'm trying to be fair).
    In the Philippines I'd say the issue is less "corruption" in the broad sense than the persistence of what amounts to dictatorship in regional enclaves where dynastic autocrats still hold absolute sway and operate as a law unto themselves, with no effective central control. I imagine the influences in India are different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    For external support the Maoists throughout S. Asia are interconnected to some degree, and of course the adage that an enemy of my enemy if my friend applies, so it isn't unreasonable to believe the Maoists in India are receiving some support from state actors hostile to India.
    Again the question to me is not whether such support exists, but what is the extent and nature of that support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    In the Philippines the NPA at its current level of activity can probably sustain itself through various criminal activities and taxes.
    It can and it does. The removal of external funding (mainly from Europe) has affected the internal dynamics of the organization, though. With regional units effectively raising their own funds, central control is diminished and the movement has become increasingly regionalized. If that continues, we could see a point at which it becomes less "the NPA" than a cluster of loosely allied regional armed movements.
    Last edited by Dayuhan; 08-20-2012 at 08:19 AM.
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary”

    H.L. Mencken

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    The levels of corruption in both India and the Philippines largely make their democracies irrelevant to vast portions of the population to begin with
    The fact that democracy is seriously taken in India is why we have not replicated Pakistan, as also ensured that the Nation has not folded up, notwithstanding the various faultlines that are there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayuhan View Post
    How credible are the media reports? What foreign NGOs are involved, and what are they allegedly doing to encourage militancy?

    Which church(es), and how is that influence typically used?

    What's the nature and extent of that involvement?

    Certainly foreign parties try to influence these situations, but they don't always succeed. That influence is often overstated, especially by governments that would rather blame an insurgency on foreign subversion than address their own governance issues.

    I'm still curious about the allegation in the article cited earlier that many of the fighters are in it for the money. Is that true? If so, where's the money coming from?
    Here are some links:

    Western nations fund NGOs operating in developing countries to influence policy and subvert institutions. India does not need foreign-funded NGOs.
    http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnis...e-nations.html

    Indian law on foreign funds to NGOs worries UN body
    http://www.firstpost.com/india/india...dy-242888.html

    Foreign funds help NGOs fuel unrest in India
    http://dailypioneer.com/home/online-...-in-india.html

    It maybe interesting to note that the areas where foreign funds are being used by the NGOs are the places where terrorism and Maoism is at its prime!

    Then we have the infamous Binayak Sen's case, where the foreign 'intellectual' intervened with the Govt so that he could be released! He is a doctor who sympathised with the Marxists and was distributing Maoist and Communist pamphlets that advocated overthrowing of the Govt and Democracy and to set up a proletariat regime!

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    Bill Moore

    The exodus of the NE people (who are Hindus, Christians, animists) from Mumbai and cities of the South, was triggered off by threats to their lives by SMSes and MMSes because the Bodos (tribal people of Bodoland) clashed with the Muslims, the large majority being illegals from Bangladesh who have settled down and some even have acquired Indian ID cards through dubious means.

    In India, no one can settle down in tribal land. That land belongs to the tribal. The Muslims have slowly spread their wings into the tribal area and so that is the problem.

    The anger of the Muslims was expressed first in Mumbai, where a Muslim NGO Raza Academy held a protest rally. Mumbai broke into flames!

    I am only giving the links since the pictures and the video are disturbing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlZ6u...layer_embedded

    http://i.imgur.com/E4Ldr.jpg

    http://www.esakal.com/esakal/2012081...085509_Org.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/kX5Gl.jpg

    https://p.twimg.com/A0BjaU0CcAAQ_r1.jpg:large

    http://gallery.mid-day.com/plog-cont...e-mumbai11.jpg

    http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...74133450_n.jpg
    (Destroying a memorial to the Fallen Soldiers)

    http://static.ibnlive.in.com/ibnlive...an_protest.jpg



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAF8g...layer_embedded

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5io2w...layer_embedded
    Last edited by Ray; 08-20-2012 at 02:53 PM.

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