Suicide Attacks: weapon of the future?

[120mm]

I agree, Tom. I could point out several earlier threads where I argued Sarajevo's points, exactly. I just don't know where I keep "going off the tracks" in this thread.

Other than that, I can't imagine what I can add, here. I just think it's sad that we cannot rationally discuss the role money plays (or doesn't play) here.

[Tom Odom]

I just think it's sad that we cannot rationally discuss the role money plays (or doesn't play) here.

Sad maybe

Human definitely

Best

Tom

[slapout9]

I think there might be some translation problems to.

[Sarajevo071]

No translation problems. I understand you just fine. I find one response to sarcastic and condescending so I responded my way. If some one takes offence of my words or sound of it, I do apologize. I will keep it to myself in future.

[TROUFION]

Dr. Brym and his team examine the 2nd intifada, 138 attacks. His findings are summarized in this article. He points out that this is specific to Palestine-Isreal and may not apply to Iraq etc.

Here is an excerpt:

"By examining statements made by bombers, their families or representatives from organizations they claimed to be working for, the authors found that attacks were not generally governed by a strategic logic, as is often believed to be the case, but were motivated by a desire for revenge. By examining events that preceded each specific attack, they found that particular Israeli actions such as killings prompted most attacks. "For the most part," they write, bombers "gave up their lives to avenge the killing of a close relative, as retribution for specific attacks against the Palestinian people or as payback for perceived attacks against Islam."

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-dsb061206.php

Further, the following Wikipedia Link, has a LOT of information that is relevant to this discussion. It mirrors very closely how this thread has unfolded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bombing

And last here is today's news:

By SAMEER N. YACOUB, Associated Press Writer
16 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - A suicide car bomb struck Baghdad's Shiite militia stronghold Saturday, killing at least 18 people as international envoys met in the Iraqi capital to talk about stabilizing the violence-shattered country.

The blast hit an Iraqi patrol in Sadr City at midday, scattering burning debris across a small bridge, witnesses said.

An Associated Press reporter traveling with U.S. troops nearby said the explosion showered shrapnel across a joint U.S.- Iraq security station 300 yards away. The partially shattered windshield of a car landed at the gates of the compound.

Police said at least 18 people were killed and 48 wounded.

Question: What did this bomber-terrorist achieve?

[TROUFION]

THe question at hand is this effective as a weapon, tactic, strategy? Can the insurgents achieve the desired endstate through this campaign? Will the Shiites (particularly Sadr's militia types) be able to restrain themselves from retaliation? (guess that is a seperate issue-responses to suicide instigation attacks, when the attacker WANTS you to overreact)----

Suicide blast kills 32 Shiites in Iraq By LAUREN FRAYER, Associated Press Writer
11 minutes ago

A suicide car bomber rammed a truck carrying Shiite pilgrims returning from a religious commemoration Sunday, killing at least 32 people a day after Iraqi leaders warned sectarian violence could spread through the Middle East.

Hundreds of pilgrims were killed by suspected Sunni insurgents as they traveled to the ceremonies in the holy city of Karbala, where millions had gathered for two days of commemorations, and their return journey was equally treacherous.

The truck was bringing about 70 men and boys home and had reached central Baghdad when it was blasted by the car bomber. At least 32 people were killed and 24 were injured, police and hospital officials said.

Attacks on other vehicles carrying pilgrims Sunday killed at least five people in Baghdad.

One of those in the truck, Mustafa Moussawi, a 31-year-old vegetable store owner, said they group felt safe after crossing from Sunni-dominated areas.

"Then the car bomber slammed us from behind," said Moussawi, who suffered injuries to his right hand and shoulder. "I blame the government. They didn't provide a safe

route for us even though they knew we were targets for attack."

Iraqi security officials have struggled to protect the annual pilgrimage to mark the end of 40 days mourning for the 7th century battlefield death of the Prophet Muhammad's grandson. Shiites consider him the rightful heir of Islam's leadership, which cemented the rift with Sunni Muslims.

In what appeared to be an attack on the other side of Iraq's sectarian divide, in the northern city of Mosul, a suicide bomber attacked the offices of Iraq's biggest Sunni political party, killing three guards. The attack on the Iraqi Islamic Party's office came as politicians were leaving a reception, said party member Mohammed Shakir al-Ghanam.

Mosul, about 225 miles northwest of Baghdad, also has seen an increase in suspected Sunni insurgent attacks, including a reported raid on a prison last week that allowed nearly 150 prisoners to escape. Most were quickly recaptured.

The attacks on the Shiite pilgrims — including a bomb-rigged car and a suicide bomber with an explosives belt packed with metal fragments that together killed five in Baghdad — followed a suicide car bombing Saturday in Baghdad's main Shiite militia stronghold, Sadr City. The blast at a checkpoint killed 20 people, including at least six Iraqi soldiers.

But it carried additional worries for U.S.-led forces, who entered Sadr City last week under a carefully negotiated deal with political allies of the Madhi Army militia, led by the radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

He has agreed to withhold his armed militia from the streets during a U.S.-Iraqi security crackdown begun last month. But attacks on his power base could encourage al-Sadr to send his fighters back to protect Shiites if U.S.-Iraqi forces cannot.

They could also rekindle the sectarian revenge killings that have receded since the Baghdad security push began nearly four weeks ago.

Iraq's prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, appealed Saturday for international aid to fight the bloodshed, speaking at a gathering of neighbors and world powers, which included rare diplomatic exchanges between the United States and Iran.

He told delegates that Iraq's strife could spill across the Middle East if not quelled. It resumed even as the delegates packed up the briefcases and dossiers.

Separately, the U.S. military said that American and Iraqi troops had captured three suspected members of a bomb-making cell north of Baghdad.

The men were detained during an air assault Saturday in Tarmiyah, the military said in a statement. The suspects were accused of planting roadside bombs and car bombs in attacks on American and Iraqi troops, it said.

The military also announced the capture of a suspected financier of insurgents in Kirkuk province, who was taken into custody last Wednesday.

Also Sunday, a roadside bomb killed two women in a car in Mahmoudiyah, 20 miles south of Baghdad, police said.

[120mm]

I'm glad Sarajevo keeps up with it. Disparate views are good for the forum, I think. My comment about money and suicide bombing stem from my own period of doubt whether I could feed my family after my brain injury. At about the same time the Army upped the SGLI to $400,000 and I would be lying to say that I did not evaluate what I could do to see that my family was fed and cared for in terms of that $400,000.

Back to suicide bombing, I think Troufian's main point of his first post is the main point. What did the suicide bomber achieve?

A useful spin-off might be to ask, what did the suicide bomber "war-game" in his mind that led him to choose suicide bombing as a tactic/mode of expending his life.

I have a hard time accepting the "heavenly rewards" as the prime motive. I am familiar with "berzerker's rage" and think it might play a part. I am open and interested in suggestions/criticisms on anything else.