The US & others working with Pakistan

[Ray]

Things are getting more confusing and beyond understanding.

Stealth helicopters refuelled in Pakistan
http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-n...d-in-Pakistan/

ISI Chief Snubs Opposition Leader
Published in The Express Tribune, May 15th, 2011
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakista...on-leader.html

[davidbfpo]

Ray,

Having looked at the cited source for 'American Designs in Balochistan' I would not be too convinced of accuracy; the source has a clear stance on regional issues and is anti-war. Then relying on Turkmenistan reporting as the original source, "nuff said".

The second post on 'Stealth helicopters refuelled in Pakistan' is more interesting, although the source is clearly a briefing maybe by the PAF.

I say interesting as I've yet to see any reporting on the approach and exit from Abbottabad, regarding time, distance and refuelling. There was early speculation that the raid originated from a PAF base, now clearly unlikely as Jalalabad is cited widely. On one blogsite regarding OBL's burial at sea the author was unconvinced at the timing.

Would the US helicopters have returned direct to Jalalabad and then transferred the body plus to an aircraft which flew to the USS Vinson offshore? I am wary that the helicopters would, even could have flown direct to the USS Vinson and without refuelling over / in Pakistani airspace.

Now back to my armchair.

[Ray]

The Stealth Helicopter info is from a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) investigative commission formed on the orders of Air Chief Rao Qamar Suleman that is in the final stages of compiling its report of the investigation of the Abbottabad incident.

As far as the details of the flying in and out, I am equally foxed, though the Blackhawks have auxiliary fuel tanks. These Blackhawks used are something new and so none knows the technical specifications.

On Baluchistan, India has always been blamed. Apart from this, there are many sources (Pakistani) which blames Xe for their woes.

The more one checks on Pakistan sources, be it the News or the fora, one gets totally confused and the Pakistanis themselves are confused as to what is the truth.

In my opinion, though it is not important, the biggest scourge, as far as Pakistan is concerned, is the TTP who are ripping the innards of Pakistan. If they are controlled, then things will look up for Pakistan.

From the various inputs from Pakistan, the good news is that they (Pakistanis ) are tiring of this confusion.

Therefore, there is hope!

[omarali50]

Most Pakistanis are indeed tiring of the confusion, but the confusers are still hard at work (and are apparently still getting paid). The point to note is that all these wild conspiracy theories and strange twists and turns are not randomly generated from below up. They are fed from above down, at least initially. I am not saying that all this will stop if the "above down" feeding now stops. A lot of this stuff becomes self-sustaining and (as Max Planck pointed out about physicists) once people have bought into one paradigm, you might have to wait till that generation dies off before the outdated ideas finally die off. But still, for practical purposes, it will make a huge difference if the feeding from above is stopped. There have been one or two hopeful hints recently (Kamran Khan, thought to be very close to GHQ, is a good example:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVa8B...ature=youtu.be) but other well established pro-army websites like paknationalists.com and rupeenews.com (apparently well funded and networked) are doubling down instead of folding. One gets the impression that the deep-state may itself be divided. Some are trying to clear up confusion, but others are absolutely convinced that there is no future without eternal enmity against India and once that assumption is accepted, then the good jihadis and good taliban follow like the cart follows the bullock and that in turn leads to the need to create maximum confusion, since confusion is our only hope of keeping manna flowing from the US while protecting our jihadi assets..
Its not an easy job to clean the augean stables and the rivers have not been rerouted yet..

[omarali50]

Just happened to see this: http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp...6-5-2011_pg3_4

[Ray]

Omarali

Thanks for the comments on Pakistan.

Very pragmatic on the manner of what is happening.

Do let us know more about the situation as it unfolds.

Have you anything to add on the inhouse investigation of how the Stealth Blackhawks could evade Pakistan attention.

I sure would like to know a bit more on Xe and Balochistan as also the alleged Indian involvement.

Thanks for the links.

[Ray]

Fareed's Take: Pakistan's chance to become a normal country

Having been caught in a situation that suggests either complicity with al Qaeda or gross incompetence (and the reality is probably a bit of both), Pakistan is now furiously trying to change the subject. Senior generals angrily denounce America for entering the country.

A Pakistani friend put it to me this way: It's like a person caught in bed with another man's wife who is indignant that someone entered his house.

The military has also once again been able to cow the civilian government. According to Pakistani sources, the speech that Prime Minister Gilani gave at a recent news conference was drafted by the military. So having come to power hoping to clip the military's wings, Pakistan's democratically elected government has been reduced to mouthing talking points written for it by the intelligence service.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....n-needs-to-do/

Read in conjunction with Omar Ali's link http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp...6-5-2011_pg3_4 , it gives some idea of the contradictions, confusion and anguish that plague common Pakistanis and the helplessness to break from this vicious circle that prevents Pakistan to surface and find its rightful place as was visioned by its Founder, Md Ali Jinnah.