The US & others working with Pakistan

[carl]

Carl,

If you recall, Afghanistan was not a problem for the US under the Taliban and their Pakistani allies. Yes, AQ had sanctuary there, and that was a problem for us, but only because totally ignored it until they launched the attacks of 9/11 (which I doubt their host knew much about), and until we were forced to act quickly to figure out how to deal with reprisals on a non-state actor. We ignored the Saudi State that most of the attackers and leaders of AQ hailed from, and the Egyptian state; and instead made loose connections to bring our wrath down upon the Afghan and Iraqi states. I understand why we attacked Afghanistan, but believe we could have achieved at least equal effects against AQ without inflaming the region by expanding our fight to the Taliban.

I do recall, but not what you recall (remember that scene in The Princess Bride where Inigo said to Vizini...). I recall the Embassy bombings in Africa and that guy who got caught at the border with the explosives and perhaps the U.S.S. Cole. I recall that was a problem for the US because AQ had sanctuary in Afghanistan and we couldn't get at them. I also recall that we tried with cruise missiles and AQ was a focus of the various intel groups and that Mr. Clinton regretted that he couldn't get Osama. That doesn't seem like totally ignoring to me but as Inigo said to Vizini...

AQ's host may not have known much about 9-11 beforehand but if they knew anything at all about it, they didn't tell us thereby making themselves complicit in the mass murder of Americans.

We expanded our fight to include the Taliban because after being asked politely, they didn't give up AQ. They could have avoided inflaming the region by giving up a mass murderer but they chose not to, with some encouragement by the ISI.

I know if you leased a shed in your backyard to some guy who then went out and robbed a bank, you would not expect the police to come in and chase that guy off your property, and then take out their anger on you, throwing you in jail and your family out into the street, and then putting some homeless people from the area into your home in your stead. That is what we did in Afghanistan.

I prefer to avoid the strained analogies. The actual situation was simple and clear enough. AQ was hosted by the Taliban. AQ killed thousands of Americans. We asked Taliban to give up AQ. They refused. We went after them both.

I know you don't like Pakistan. I on the other hand don't worry about if I "like" or "dislike" Pakistan,...

Well actually, you don't know I don't like Pakistan. I on the other hand do know. I asked myself that question and I believe I received an honest answer. I like Pakistan just fine. How can you not like a country that produces people like the Karachi cop and ambulance driver profiled in a video highlighted on this site some time back, or that produces hyper-brave men like the Pakistani journalist beaten to death by the ISI last year.

I do dislike, to put it mildly, the Pak Army/ISI; mainly the officer corps though, especially the high guys. The poor troops get betrayed by their officers probably more often than we do. I dislike the Pak Army/ISI as an institution because they kill Americans and they put a country composed of people like the cop, ambulance driver and journalist I mentioned at grave risk solely to preserve the privileges and power of the Pak Army/ISI.

...I simply assess that they acted rationally and reasonably in seeking to exert influence over Afghanistan through the shared Pashtun populace prior to 9/11; and that they acted rationally and reasonably in both agreeing to help the US in exchange for massive aid, while at the same time continuing to work covertly to do what they had always done as it was still the smartest way to address their interests as they reasonably defined them.

I cannot say that the US also action rationally or reasonably. I cannot say that the US had powerful interests to do what we did and are doing. I think we made mistakes in the heat of the moment and don't know how to get back on track. Pakistan plays a dangerous game with the US, but to be fair, it is not a game they asked to play, it is a game we forced them to play.

So the Pak Army/ISI is acting rationally and reasonably by pursuing a course of action that puts their country at grave risk. The US on the other hand hasn't been acting rationally and reasonably by reacting as we did to the attack on 9-11. Like I said about Inigo and Vizini...

I will concede however that we have screwed up royally in Afghanistan in the last 10 years. The biggest mistake being of course that we refuse to recognize the Pak Army/ISI as being the enemy and treating them accordingly.