The US & others working with Pakistan

[George L. Singleton]

CSIS, 27 Jan 09 The Afghan-Pakistan War: The Rising Threat: 2002-2008

Jedburg's comments are deeply appreciated and on target.

Pakistan has been "overlooked" for way too long.

A rebellion is going on inside the FATA, Waziristan, and related parts of the NWFP for some months now.

In Swat the Taliban and al Qaida, but especially the Taliban, are slaughtering the locals, who ethnically are not all Pukhtuns.

I get pleas for help frequent via private e-mails, starting from when I wrote/published a letter during 2008 testing the waters on theme "what if the US/NATO" came across the borders in force, literally?

Nub of most replies I got was they would prefer "us" the Pakistan Army and their ISI.

Problem is this is a backward, feudal, tribal society which cannot be changed for time to come, could take 100s of years. Bad as the Pak Army and ISA may be, they of late appear to be doing a better job, and should police up their theoretical provinces.

However, it is worth noting that these and related areas in Northern Paksitan allege to hate and oppose the terrorists, Taliban and al Qaida, but they, themselves have to get their guns and butter from somewhere? Guess who? From the Taliban and al Qaida, and lately from the Pakistan Army who have tried to sign up "enmasse" whole tribes to fight against sthe Taliban.

Convoluted and confusing for sure.

Again, thanks much for Jedburg's remarks and references.

[reed11b]

Pak Helicopter's fly in support of Taliban

Anybody else see somthing on this or have any first-or second hand knowledge of the event described?
Also, just today..Pak troops fire on US helicopters

Whats the breaking point before we openly engage Pakistani troops?
Reed

[Cavguy]

Pak Helicopter's fly in support of Taliban

Anybody else see somthing on this or have any first-or second hand knowledge of the event described?
Also, just today..Pak troops fire on US helicopters

Whats the breaking point before we openly engage Pakistani troops?
Reed

In a couple of the accounts, the US Soldiers on the ground fired at the Pakis in retaliation.

[Ken White]

both sides since 2002. It surfaces to the media on occasion but not always.

Some times, there are casualties. Here's one I happen to know personally; note the date. The articles is not quite correct -- some of the Pakistanis helped the US, others engaged and a healthy fire fight was going on before it got calmed down. LINK

[JMA]

And the Pakistanis try to keep all their options open...

Pakistan President Zardari visits India for talks

[Ray]

The Pakistan President and the Pakistan Govt is sinecure and redundant to policy making.

It is the Army that calls the shot.

As many of you would be aware that the Indian Govt shot down the Army Chief's contention over his age wherein he would have continued longer in office.

Thus there is a joke doing the rounds in India.

"The Govt decides the age of the Army Chief in India,

But the Army decides the age of the Govt in Pakistan!"

[davidbfpo]

I have opened this new thread on Pakistan's strategic position after the arrival today of two expert commentaries on the developing relationship between India and Saudi Arabia. With a passing reference to China, whose relationship with Pakistan has a few troubles.

There is an existing, long running thread 'The US & others working with Pakistan' and quite simply 'working with' is not what is happening. Plus some of the events involved have appeared in the thread 'Mumbai Attacks and their impact'.

Stephen Tankel has a FP Blog article 'Pakistan's sticky wicket: The India-Saudi link':http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/posts...dia_saudi_link

Which ends with:

Finally, this event should cause concern in Islamabad and Rawalpindi about the degree to which continued tolerance of groups like Lashkar is creating unease among even its closest allies. China too has evinced concern - rarely and diplomatically, but nevertheless publicly - about the potential for Pakistan-based militants to threaten its own internal security. Saudi Arabia has now gone a significant step further. Neither country is about to abandon Pakistan, but nor is their commitment to Pakistan as absolute as some of its leaders might publicly claim or privately wish to believe.

The Jamestown Foundation has a short article 'A Challenge for Pakistan: Saudi Arabia’s New Counterterrorism Cooperation with India':http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_...41c7acbda9b477

This looks more closely at the Indian aspects.

Still missing on my "radar" is a good article on what exactly is the Pakistan-Saudi relationship, we know many of the linkages, but not how they weigh in the relationship. Any suggestions would be welcome.

I don't think Pakistan can lose friends such as Saudi Arabia or the Chinese and expect this is fully appreciated, especially as relations with the generous USA are prone to tension and in the near future could end.

[omarali50]

Since pakistan is probably willing to go to almost any extent (short of killing "good jihadis"...THAT we cannot do..cannot more than will-not) we should be able to hold on to these two allies. For example, we have not yet given China all of the Northern areas and probably havent physically sold a working bomb to Saudia. But if push comes to shove, we could do either. In short, we still have some things to sell before we hit rock bottom.
As the guy who jumped out of a plane without a parachute famously said at the halfway mark: "still doing OK"..

[Ray]

Here is a link to the improving India Saudi relationship.

This would be an input that is of importance to Pakistan and so maybe relevant in context with this thread.

India and Saudi Arabia
http://intellibriefs.blogspot.in/201...di-arabia.html

It maybe recalled the the Saudis handed over Abu Jundal, a mastermind of the Mumbai Blast, who was in Saudi Arabia on a Pakistan passport. It is said that the ISI wanted the deportation stopped, but the Saudis went ahead and deported Abu Jundal.

Better ties with Saudi Arabia helped clinch Abu Jundal deal

For the last six months, Pakistan had been on a


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