Syria in 2016: an exchange on what to do

[mwe12]

In what fashion is FSyA a 'terrorist organization'? In what fashion is IF a 'terrorist organization' - especially for you, an American (if you are really one)? What kind of terrorist operations against the USA have they undertaken?

They are aligned with AQ, share the same beliefs, same goal (just right now on a national scale), also massacre civilians, and use civilians as human shields. That they haven't got around to giving us our next 9/11 is irrelevant.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...ical-state.php

Indeed, a representative of Ahrar al Sham, Labib Al Nahhas, published two op-eds in Western newspapers in recent weeks. The first appeared in the Washington Post on July 10, while the second was published in the Daily Telegraph (UK) on July 21. Both pieces contain obvious fictions. And both were intended to mislead a Western audience into thinking that Ahrar al Sham is something other than an extremist or jihadist group.

Nahhas wrote in the Post, for instance, that his organization has “been falsely accused of having organizational links to al Qaeda and of espousing al Qaeda’s ideology.” This claim does not pass the most basic smell test. Ahrar al Sham fights alongside the Al Nusrah Front, al Qaeda’s official branch in Syria, on a day-to-day basis. Al Nusrah and Ahrar al Sham have formed coalitions throughout the country to battle their common enemies, especially the Assad regime and the Islamic State. The two groups are blood brothers, a fact that has been recognized by some of Ahrar al Sham’s own leaders.

Moreover, Ahrar al Sham has been seeded with senior al Qaeda operatives. Ayman al Zawahiri’s top representative in Syria was Abu Khalid al Suri. A longtime al Qaeda operative, al Suri was killed in February 2014. In addition to serving al Qaeda, al Suri was also one of Ahrar al Sham’s most influential leaders.

After al Suri was killed, presumably at the hands of the Islamic State, Zawahiri released a glowing eulogy in which he described al Suri as his “advisor.” Other known al Qaeda jihadists have joined and led Ahrar al Sham as well.

While Ahrar al Sham has tried to hide some of these connections, its praise for Mullah Omar is difficult for its apologists to explain away.

Omar’s Taliban state, which Ahrar al Sham holds up as an example of a true Islamic emirate, was as radical as they come. Long before the Islamic State celebrated gory executions in its propaganda, the Taliban gained worldwide infamy for its brutality. The Taliban and al Qaeda have modified their approach to waging jihad by attempting to build more popular support for their cause. But their end goals remain unchanged. And Ahrar al Sham’s praise for this adjustment in tactics shows that it has also adopted a more gradual model for inculcating its beliefs into Syrian society. The Al Nusrah Front, which openly adheres to al Qaeda’s manhaj (methodology), is following a similar path.

http://www.juancole.com/2015/07/wash...s-taliban.html

The Free Men are closely allied with the open al-Qaeda affiliate, the Support Front (Jabhat al-Nusra). This is not a mere alliance of convenience. They have formed joint operation offices. They coordinate closely militarily. They have a common rubric in Idlib Province of the Army of Conquest (Jaysh al-Fath).

When the two groups of holy warriors and their allies took over the city of Idlib this summer, they conquered 18 villages north of that city largely inhabited by members of the esoteric Shiite Druze religion. The Free Men leadership gave control of the Druze villages to al-Qaeda, which promptly began stealing their property and killing them when they objected. Some 23 were massacred.

The al-Qaeda oppression of the Druze, enabled by the Free Men, tempted many members of that group to get off the fence and support the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad. In Israel, members of the Druze minority pressured the Israeli government to attack al-Qaeda so as to protect the Syrian Druze. (Israel appears to have an alliance of convenience with al-Qaeda in the Golan Heights against their common foe, the Lebanese Hizbullah, and brings wounded anti-regime fighters fighters over the border into Israel for treatment. Druze in the Israeli-held Golan rioted and attacked these wounded jihadis recently, alleging that the injure who were being transported in an Israeli ambulance were al-Qaeda).
...
One of the founders of the Free Men was Hasan Aboud, who in 2013 told an Egyptian newspaper that secularism would not be allowed and tried to assure its readers that “the rejection of democracy” does not mean domination, but rather consultation.

So, what's different between what you suggest and what Oblabla is doing ?

Shouldn't have given TOWs or allowed US export items to be sent there. And we should be drone striking JAN/IF.

How do you want to know who is Daesh, who is IF, and who is JAN - if you have no HUMINT sources in field?

We can hellfire the Taliban without supporting AQ.

What do you know about the IF so to be able to say you don't want to live under them?

See above.

By side that this information is completely obsolete, that plenty of up-to-date information has been posted in this thread meanwhile - indicating Russians have murdered nearly 2000 Syrian civilians, and SOHR cannot explain how they came to the conclusion that Russians have killed as many Daesh.... how do you want to know it was Russians that have killed as many Daesh - especially if your information comes from what you consider a 'pro-terrorist' source?

It's called a party admission. Even handicapping it a bit the VKS seems to have a better ratio of dead civilians to dead terrorists than the IDF managed in Lebanon.

Even with all the yellow journalism about ore dead civilians than ISIS, the Russians are killing more other terrorists than either and almost twice as many terrorists as civilians.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-fighters.html

According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, more than 1,000 civilians have been killed during Russia’s four month bombing campaign. By comparison, the strikes had killed 893 Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) fighters, and 1141 militants from other factions, the monitoring group said.

In dumbest possible fashion, definition of genocide is 'intent to systematically eliminate a racial, ethnic, religious, linguistic, cultural or national group'. So, if Assad - upon instruction from the IRGC (a terrorist organization by definition of your own government), with help of Hezbollah (a terrorist organization by definition of your own government) and PFLP-GC (a terrorist organization by definition of your own government), and with support of Russia (at best described as a 'hybrid autocracy') - is systematically destroying Sunni Arab population of Syria, how do you define what is he and his allies doing?

They are fighting in a civil war against an enemy who seems to really like hanging out with/hiding behind women and children. Would be a bit like accusing the 8th air force of genocide, and even then the USAAC managed to kill far more civilians from the air, here it is a deliberate misuse of the term.

You mean: you want to 'flatten' people who are fighting for their freedom (see FSyA and IF)? But you are against 'flattening' the oppressive dictatorship that provoked them to start an armed uprising, that has incarcerated dozens of thousands of them and murdered hundreds of thousands of them - and that on the top of that is also cooperating with (at least) three major terrorist organizations, all of which are staunchly anti-USA, all anti-Israel, all anti-democracy, all anti-pluralist, and one activelly working on development of WMDs?

Yeap. I am safer as an American with the anti-Assad forces six feet deep and their camps/infrastructure destroyed, than I am with the having a state/safe areas. Really remarkable that our allies created and funded such groups.

The hundred of thousands number also includes dead SAA/NDF/BPM and terrorists.

...all provided you're really a citizen of the USA... then why is your government selling them arms worth dozens of billions - and that every single year? Why is your government - and your military - supporting their military operations in Yemen? What is making such actions 'right'?

Lobbying, money and lack of foresight in the US government. JANs chief funder wants 72 F-15s. KSA is perfectly ok doing what the Russians are doing as long as it is done in Yemen by the; the same people who are demanding we put up a NFZ in Syria.

And? What does that report says to you so you can gauge how dangerous is JAN for you?

Being part of AQ is quite enough.