Mass shooting(s) after Orlando (amended title)

**davidbfpo** · 06-12-2016

Is this massacre at a gay night club in Orlando, Florida a "lone wolf" attack or an act of Jihadist-inspired terrorism or yet another mass killing?

The second link refers to

Mateen's father Mir Seddique told NBC News that the incident had nothing to do with religion, but may have been triggered by the sight of a gay couple kissing in Miami.

I say another mass killing prompted by:

According to the Mass Shooting Tracker, the US last year suffered 372 mass shootings, defined as a single incident that kills or injures four or more people. Some 475 people were killed and 1,870 wounded.

I have only read two BBC reports:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36511778 and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36512308

That the target premises was a well known gay night club earlier today led to speculation that is what made the premises a Jihadist target.

IIRC in the UK we have had Jihadist, both "lone wolves" and organised groups, plot to attack night clubs - to achieve mass casualties. Notably the two VBIEDs left outside a London night club in 2007. There was a another VBIED left near the route of a Gay Pride March around the same time IIRC.

**AmericanPride** · 06-12-2016

Moderator's Note

Thread opened for maximum visibilty with No.3 post and first two posts moved from the main thread on Terrorism in the USA, into which one day this thread is likely to be merged:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ad.php?t=24078

Thread title changed to Mass shooting(s) after Orlando (ends).

Another mass shooting, this one determined to be a 'lone wolf' attack with the perpetrating having ties to radical Islamism:

Approximately 20 people are dead inside Pulse, a gay nightclub, Orlando Police Chief John Mina said Sunday morning, just hours after a shooter opened fire in what authorities are saying is a domestic terror attack.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orl...club-shooting/

The use of the term 'lone wolf'. I personally dislike it as it implies that incidents of these types are unrelated and therefore there is not a strategy to counter them. Often these attacks are related in both means (i.e. guns) and motive (i.e. ideology). Combating either is an opportunity for risk reduction. Note that the attacker in this case had both guns and a explosive device, which apparently did not detonate. Guns will continue replacing bombs as the most reliable weapons of terror, especially in scenarios where there is not a sophisticated network in operation.

Note: The Independent is reporting that over 50 people have been killed.

**omarali50** · 06-12-2016

I am going to update later, but this piece has thoughts on background etc and also (in third last para), some early thoughts on the possibility of detection or pre-emption http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksd...or-attack.html

**OUTLAW 09** · 06-13-2016

FBI never thought gay club would be target, i.e. they are NOT threat-focused
http://eastorlandopost.com/report-or...ther-gay-clubs …

NEVER senses to amaze me that US IC and that includes the FBI....just how little they fully understand the ideology of Sunni AND Shia Salafist jihadi's....

Do they never watch their info war gay killing videos or read their announcements against gays or is it still being just viewed as "propaganda"...????

13 years into this and yet they still do not "understand" what they are "seeing".....

IS is talking to directly to the West and their "believer's" yet we are unable to "listen"....BTW...that dialogue has been ongoing since 2002 and we are now in what ....2016.....and have we learned anything from this dialogue...nothing absolutely nothing.

**slapout9** · 06-13-2016

Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09

FBI never thought gay club would be target, i.e. they are NOT threat-focused
http://eastorlandopost.com/report-or...ther-gay-clubs …

NEVER senses to amaze me that US IC and that includes the FBI....just how little they fully understand the ideology of Sunni AND Shia Salafist jihadi's....

Do they never watch their info war gay killing videos or read their announcements against gays or is it still being just viewed as "propaganda"...????

13 years into this and yet they still do not "understand" what they are "seeing".....

IS is talking to directly to the West and their "believer's" yet we are unable to "listen"....BTW...that dialogue has been ongoing since 2002 and we are now in what ....2016.....and have we learned anything from this dialogue...nothing absolutely nothing.

Very well said! Political ideology vs. Situation reality is the goal of our present leadership!

**davidbfpo** · 06-13-2016

An article that is topical and the sub-title says:

The evidence shows that alienating an entire religious community, as Donald Trump has done, will make us less safe. There are better ways to fight extremism

Link:http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/13/radicalisation-islamophobia-orlando-shooting-florida-muslims-trump?

**davidbfpo** · 06-13-2016

John Schindler weighs in:http://observer.com/2016/06/jihad-denial-kills-again/

**OUTLAW 09** · 06-16-2016

Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09

FBI never thought gay club would be target, i.e. they are NOT threat-focused
http://eastorlandopost.com/report-or...ther-gay-clubs …

NEVER senses to amaze me that US IC and that includes the FBI....just how little they fully understand the ideology of Sunni AND Shia Salafist jihadi's....

Do they never watch their info war gay killing videos or read their announcements against gays or is it still being just viewed as "propaganda"...????

13 years into this and yet they still do not "understand" what they are "seeing".....

IS is talking to directly to the West and their "believer's" yet we are unable to "listen"....BTW...that dialogue has been ongoing since 2002 and we are now in what ....2016.....and have we learned anything from this dialogue...nothing absolutely nothing.

To understand IS and Salafist jihadi's one must understand the ideology....
Hassan Hassan ‏@hxhassan · Jun 13

IS ideology: a product of a slow hybridization between doctrinaire Salafism and Islamist currents http://carnegieendowment.org/2016/06...l-context/j1iy …
my in-depth paper

Hassan Hassan ‏@hxhassan
"Relying [solely] on the titles of books and writings used by the Islamic State can distort, not inform, the understanding of its ideology"

Once one fully understands Salafists...THEN start understanding Takfirism...this shooter was a Takfirist....

THAT is exactly why the FBU blew it when they interviewed him as they had no idea what Takfirism is inside Islam..and if one is truly honest all of the 9/11 attackers were also Takfirists....as was the recent CA attacker....

Lone wolf is just a term to create a smoke screen on having to admit by the US IC and FBI they have no earthly idea of how to handle Takfirists as they do not fit the concept of a trained jihadi sleeper cell.

The US IC and FBI have slept through the subtle IS shift in tactics and it will take a large amount of effort to catch up....if they can in fact catch up......IS constantly learns and we sleep at the wheel...typical...

**slapout9** · 06-16-2016

Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09

To understand IS and Salafist jihadi's one must understand the ideology....
Hassan Hassan ‏@hxhassan · Jun 13

IS ideology: a product of a slow hybridization between doctrinaire Salafism and Islamist currents http://carnegieendowment.org/2016/06...l-context/j1iy …
my in-depth paper

Hassan Hassan ‏@hxhassan
"Relying [solely] on the titles of books and writings used by the Islamic State can distort, not inform, the understanding of its ideology"

Once one fully understands Salafists...THEN start understanding Takfirism...this shooter was a Takfirist....

THAT is exactly why the FBU blew it when they interviewed him as they had no idea what Takfirism is inside Islam..and if one is truly honest all of the 9/11 attackers were also Takfirists....as was the recent CA attacker....

Lone wolf is just a term to create a smoke screen on having to admit by the US IC and FBI they have no earthly idea of how to handle Takfirists as they do not fit the concept of a trained jihadi sleeper cell.

The US IC and FBI have slept through the subtle IS shift in tactics and it will take a large amount of effort to catch up....if they can in fact catch up......IS constantly learns and we sleep at the wheel...typical...

Again well said.

**AmericanPride** · 06-16-2016

Outlaw-

In regards to Orlando specifically, Islamic terrorism is certainly one narrative, but certainly not the only or exclusive one. And probably not the dominant one. By all publicly available accounts, Mateen was apparently mentally disturbed. By the time he expressed support for ISIS, he was already well on his way towards radicalization and violence.

**OUTLAW 09** · 06-13-2016

FBI says the #Orlando perpetrator has over three years pledged allegiance to Hezbollah, ISIS and al Nusra– which is to say, he was clueless.

Well at least he made sure he was dealing equally with the Shia and Sunni jihadi worlds......so at least he was an "equal opportunity jihadist"....

**AmericanPride** · 06-12-2016

David,

I don't think 'lone wolf', "jihadist-inspired terrorism' or 'mass killing' are at all mutually exclusive. It can be all three at once. I think this is the future of terrorism in the United States - right, left, Islamic, or other.

1. Mass communications and social media enables passive connectivity between sources of radicalization and would-be radicals. A 'network' exists insofar that ideological infrastructure is constructed - traditional methods of underground activities are far more risky and no longer necessary. Any wannabe terrorist can find inspiration - and direction - online.

2. The easy accessibility of guns means that any would be radical can inflict mass casualties on soft targets. Guns are (1) easy to acquire, (2) easy to use, and (3) difficult to detect. They can be purchased without arousing investigative interest. And when it comes to reliability, guns perform at a far higher level than IEDs. The threshold for action is far lower with guns than with any other weapon.