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    Default Mass shooting(s) after Orlando (amended title)

    Moderator's Note

    Thread opened for maximum visibilty with No.3 post and first two posts moved from the main thread on Terrorism in the USA, into which one day this thread is likely to be merged:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ad.php?t=24078

    Thread title changed to Mass shooting(s) after Orlando (ends).

    Another mass shooting, this one determined to be a 'lone wolf' attack with the perpetrating having ties to radical Islamism:

    Approximately 20 people are dead inside Pulse, a gay nightclub, Orlando Police Chief John Mina said Sunday morning, just hours after a shooter opened fire in what authorities are saying is a domestic terror attack.
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orl...club-shooting/

    The use of the term 'lone wolf'. I personally dislike it as it implies that incidents of these types are unrelated and therefore there is not a strategy to counter them. Often these attacks are related in both means (i.e. guns) and motive (i.e. ideology). Combating either is an opportunity for risk reduction. Note that the attacker in this case had both guns and a explosive device, which apparently did not detonate. Guns will continue replacing bombs as the most reliable weapons of terror, especially in scenarios where there is not a sophisticated network in operation.

    Note: The Independent is reporting that over 50 people have been killed.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 09-27-2016 at 10:59 PM. Reason: Add Mods Note. Amend title.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

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    I am going to update later, but this piece has thoughts on background etc and also (in third last para), some early thoughts on the possibility of detection or pre-emption http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksd...or-attack.html

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    FBI never thought gay club would be target, i.e. they are NOT threat-focused
    http://eastorlandopost.com/report-or...ther-gay-clubs

    NEVER senses to amaze me that US IC and that includes the FBI....just how little they fully understand the ideology of Sunni AND Shia Salafist jihadi's....

    Do they never watch their info war gay killing videos or read their announcements against gays or is it still being just viewed as "propaganda"...????

    13 years into this and yet they still do not "understand" what they are "seeing".....

    IS is talking to directly to the West and their "believer's" yet we are unable to "listen"....BTW...that dialogue has been ongoing since 2002 and we are now in what ....2016.....and have we learned anything from this dialogue...nothing absolutely nothing.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-13-2016 at 07:57 AM. Reason: Moved to the Orlando thread.

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    Default Well Said

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    FBI never thought gay club would be target, i.e. they are NOT threat-focused
    http://eastorlandopost.com/report-or...ther-gay-clubs

    NEVER senses to amaze me that US IC and that includes the FBI....just how little they fully understand the ideology of Sunni AND Shia Salafist jihadi's....

    Do they never watch their info war gay killing videos or read their announcements against gays or is it still being just viewed as "propaganda"...????

    13 years into this and yet they still do not "understand" what they are "seeing".....

    IS is talking to directly to the West and their "believer's" yet we are unable to "listen"....BTW...that dialogue has been ongoing since 2002 and we are now in what ....2016.....and have we learned anything from this dialogue...nothing absolutely nothing.
    Very well said! Political ideology vs. Situation reality is the goal of our present leadership!

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    Default Islamophobia: the catalyst for radicalisation?

    An article that is topical and the sub-title says:
    The evidence shows that alienating an entire religious community, as Donald Trump has done, will make us less safe. There are better ways to fight extremism
    Link:http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/13/radicalisation-islamophobia-orlando-shooting-florida-muslims-trump?
    davidbfpo

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    Default Jihad Denial Kills…Again

    davidbfpo

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    FBI never thought gay club would be target, i.e. they are NOT threat-focused
    http://eastorlandopost.com/report-or...ther-gay-clubs

    NEVER senses to amaze me that US IC and that includes the FBI....just how little they fully understand the ideology of Sunni AND Shia Salafist jihadi's....

    Do they never watch their info war gay killing videos or read their announcements against gays or is it still being just viewed as "propaganda"...????

    13 years into this and yet they still do not "understand" what they are "seeing".....

    IS is talking to directly to the West and their "believer's" yet we are unable to "listen"....BTW...that dialogue has been ongoing since 2002 and we are now in what ....2016.....and have we learned anything from this dialogue...nothing absolutely nothing.
    To understand IS and Salafist jihadi's one must understand the ideology....
    Hassan Hassan ‏@hxhassan · Jun 13

    IS ideology: a product of a slow hybridization between doctrinaire Salafism and Islamist currents http://carnegieendowment.org/2016/06...l-context/j1iy
    my in-depth paper

    Hassan Hassan ‏@hxhassan
    "Relying [solely] on the titles of books and writings used by the Islamic State can distort, not inform, the understanding of its ideology"

    Once one fully understands Salafists...THEN start understanding Takfirism...this shooter was a Takfirist....

    THAT is exactly why the FBU blew it when they interviewed him as they had no idea what Takfirism is inside Islam..and if one is truly honest all of the 9/11 attackers were also Takfirists....as was the recent CA attacker....

    Lone wolf is just a term to create a smoke screen on having to admit by the US IC and FBI they have no earthly idea of how to handle Takfirists as they do not fit the concept of a trained jihadi sleeper cell.

    The US IC and FBI have slept through the subtle IS shift in tactics and it will take a large amount of effort to catch up....if they can in fact catch up......IS constantly learns and we sleep at the wheel...typical...
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-16-2016 at 04:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    To understand IS and Salafist jihadi's one must understand the ideology....
    Hassan Hassan ‏@hxhassan · Jun 13

    IS ideology: a product of a slow hybridization between doctrinaire Salafism and Islamist currents http://carnegieendowment.org/2016/06...l-context/j1iy
    my in-depth paper

    Hassan Hassan ‏@hxhassan
    "Relying [solely] on the titles of books and writings used by the Islamic State can distort, not inform, the understanding of its ideology"

    Once one fully understands Salafists...THEN start understanding Takfirism...this shooter was a Takfirist....

    THAT is exactly why the FBU blew it when they interviewed him as they had no idea what Takfirism is inside Islam..and if one is truly honest all of the 9/11 attackers were also Takfirists....as was the recent CA attacker....

    Lone wolf is just a term to create a smoke screen on having to admit by the US IC and FBI they have no earthly idea of how to handle Takfirists as they do not fit the concept of a trained jihadi sleeper cell.

    The US IC and FBI have slept through the subtle IS shift in tactics and it will take a large amount of effort to catch up....if they can in fact catch up......IS constantly learns and we sleep at the wheel...typical...
    Again well said.

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    Outlaw-

    In regards to Orlando specifically, Islamic terrorism is certainly one narrative, but certainly not the only or exclusive one. And probably not the dominant one. By all publicly available accounts, Mateen was apparently mentally disturbed. By the time he expressed support for ISIS, he was already well on his way towards radicalization and violence.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanPride View Post
    Outlaw-

    In regards to Orlando specifically, Islamic terrorism is certainly one narrative, but certainly not the only or exclusive one. And probably not the dominant one. By all publicly available accounts, Mateen was apparently mentally disturbed. By the time he expressed support for ISIS, he was already well on his way towards radicalization and violence.
    AP...here is the problem.....he was Muslim and gay (BTW it has not been totally confirmed he was actually gay) and in that environment which we cannot even comprehend while our society has it's own problems with the term "gay" ....that is in the Muslim world an even deadlier mixture.

    Just check how IS handles the problem in Iraq and Syria...BUT here again the problem....IS has a history of looking for "gays" and actually incorporating them into their "far fight"......especially since "conversion to Islam" basically washes away your previous sins....notice IS never went into his life style did it when they called him a "fighter"..in their immediate PR.....that term alone says it all.

    Terming someone "mental" is an easy way out and then we do not have to research the answer as to why..."he went mental" and exactly how did the FBI "blow it". Here is again a problem...in his mind he was not "mental"...remember it was his very own mind that was driving him that day.

    Back to Takfirism....if one fully understands it you will see that the ideology of "Takfirists" is far different than that of Salafists....

    Takfirists say you as a Muslim can drink, party, go to strip clubs, womanize around, take drugs, dress differently and YES even be gay because and here is the clue you as a "perfect warrior/fighter" are using the norms of your enemy to defeat him as he cannot see you as he assumes you are just one of the group and you do not stick out......a form of "camouflage" if you like...and he uses this "camouflage" to defeat his declared "enemy.

    BTW the only Muslim in Islam that can kill another Muslim and not have to pay a price for the killing is a "Takfirist".....we saw that often "ideologically" used by first QJBR then AQI in Iraq to justify their killing of other Sunni insurgent leaders for not "following the correct path".

    We now see the circle come full circle....using two different tactical methods by AQ and now IS.....

    Shortly after 9/11, a US journalist well versed in Islam and speaking Arabic went to Hamburg GE and conducted a series of long interviews with the wife's and girlfriend's and close friends of the 9/11 Hamburg cell which was one of the driving forces of the 9/11 attack. Then he published his book...which got some interest and today you cannot find a single copy available anywhere for some strange reason, not even to be found in used book stores.

    Strangely the actions of this Hamburg group paralleled that of the CA attacker and that of Orlando...remember the CA attacker also drank, partied hard and went to clubs also with his wife AS well as did the entire group of 9/11 attackers.

    WHY..... the entire 9/11 Hamburg cell went through a self radicalization process from Salafist to Takfirist together and they all went to the same mosque together making the radicalization process far easier.

    What struck me in the book was his description of the term that these Hamburg family members and close friends said the group often would use in political and religious debates and conversations......they viewed themselves as "perfect warriors".

    The term IS used in their PR release in claiming the attack....was "fighter" which can be interchanged and is often interchanged with the word "warrior"...."warrior" used to be used for a killed cell member as a sign of deep respect, but it has become interchangeable with the "term "fighter" since the series of attacks in Europe in the last year as IS was shifting tactically from cell attackers to individual attackers.

    NOW jump to Iraq 2005 and 2006....when I was dealing with detained fighters from Ansar al Sunnah and AQI I would ask them in the middle of a long interrogation and in no connection to the previous questions...."are you a perfect warrior"....which even my US Iraqi Muslim interpreter had not idea what it meant until I explained it to him......the question always caught them off guard and after usually a long pregnant period of total silence they quietly would say yes......emphasis on "quietly"......then and only then did we get to the truth because they recognized that even in Iraq there was an American who fully understood their religious driver..and I could hold my own using Koranic verses..I usually got great reports.

    Only they were never read at national nor did national ever ask for a follow up.

    So again we need to fully and frankly understand both ideological drivers of the jihadi world.....BTW we have not even touched the world of Shia jihadists.

    There was though one comment he made that immediately caught my attention...he stated he was doing this because of the killing and bombing in Syria...he did not use killing and bombing of IS BUT used the word Syria.

    So in his self radicalization process did he pick up on the fact that the US was allowing Syrian Muslims to be virtually butchered with no response coming from the US...was he actually faulting the US for the lack of any US actions in protecting Muslims....along with the standard IS rhetoric.

    Over the last five years there has been plenty of videos on the net depicting the genocide and killing of Arab Sunni's many claiming they were from US bombings and now with the Russian bombings there was a flood of such videos many very graphic in nature especially of killed children and women.

    That is a major critique of the current US policy that we hear louder and louder out of the ME from those fighting Assad as well as the IS itself.

    Also notice many faulted him immediately for appearing to stupidly mixing all forms of different terrorist groups....Hezbollah, IS etc....BUT wait jihadists of all political directions including Shiaism all share similar Islamic beliefs and the US is always the target.

    We really do need to get away from the IS "sleeper cells" myth and ask ourselves how do we counter a single "believer".....and how do we "spot him or her" when they look, act, drink, talk and think like we do in every day life......ie "the perfect warrior"......
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-17-2016 at 10:16 AM.

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    Hassan Hassan ‏@hxhassan
    My latest @ForeignPolicy assessment of ISIS's current state of play, in the context of the Orlando attack

    Washington’s War on the Islamic State Is Only Making It Stronger

    The caliphate is losing territory in Iraq and Syria, but the U.S.-backed military campaign is stoking sectarian tensions that could spread global jihad

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/16/...ia-iraq-libya/

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post



    We really do need to get away from the IS "sleeper cells" myth and ask ourselves how do we counter a single "believer".....and how do we "spot him or her" when they look, act, drink, talk and think like we do in every day life......ie "the perfect warrior"......
    You should expand upon that if you can. The actions the attacker took were very similar to the the attack that happened to me and my wife. In our case he started going to funerals of people that were NOT related to him! He tried to alter life insurance policies. My point is there is an observable and detectable Death Ritual all seem to follow. But PC may prevent this from being done. Most actions would not have anything to do with gun control so I don't believe there would be much political support to use such a process.

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    FBI says the #Orlando perpetrator has over three years pledged allegiance to Hezbollah, ISIS and al Nusra– which is to say, he was clueless.

    Well at least he made sure he was dealing equally with the Shia and Sunni jihadi worlds......so at least he was an "equal opportunity jihadist"....
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-13-2016 at 09:09 PM. Reason: Moved here by Moderator

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