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Thread: Mass shooting(s) after Orlando (amended title)

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    Council Member AmericanPride's Avatar
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    Default Mass shooting(s) after Orlando (amended title)

    Moderator's Note

    Thread opened for maximum visibilty with No.3 post and first two posts moved from the main thread on Terrorism in the USA, into which one day this thread is likely to be merged:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ad.php?t=24078

    Thread title changed to Mass shooting(s) after Orlando (ends).

    Another mass shooting, this one determined to be a 'lone wolf' attack with the perpetrating having ties to radical Islamism:

    Approximately 20 people are dead inside Pulse, a gay nightclub, Orlando Police Chief John Mina said Sunday morning, just hours after a shooter opened fire in what authorities are saying is a domestic terror attack.
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orl...club-shooting/

    The use of the term 'lone wolf'. I personally dislike it as it implies that incidents of these types are unrelated and therefore there is not a strategy to counter them. Often these attacks are related in both means (i.e. guns) and motive (i.e. ideology). Combating either is an opportunity for risk reduction. Note that the attacker in this case had both guns and a explosive device, which apparently did not detonate. Guns will continue replacing bombs as the most reliable weapons of terror, especially in scenarios where there is not a sophisticated network in operation.

    Note: The Independent is reporting that over 50 people have been killed.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 09-27-2016 at 10:59 PM. Reason: Add Mods Note. Amend title.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

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    I am going to update later, but this piece has thoughts on background etc and also (in third last para), some early thoughts on the possibility of detection or pre-emption http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksd...or-attack.html

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Orlando shooting: more of the same or different?

    Is this massacre at a gay night club in Orlando, Florida a "lone wolf" attack or an act of Jihadist-inspired terrorism or yet another mass killing?

    The second link refers to
    Mateen's father Mir Seddique told NBC News that the incident had nothing to do with religion, but may have been triggered by the sight of a gay couple kissing in Miami.
    I say another mass killing prompted by:
    According to the Mass Shooting Tracker, the US last year suffered 372 mass shootings, defined as a single incident that kills or injures four or more people. Some 475 people were killed and 1,870 wounded.
    I have only read two BBC reports:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36511778 and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36512308

    That the target premises was a well known gay night club earlier today led to speculation that is what made the premises a Jihadist target.

    IIRC in the UK we have had Jihadist, both "lone wolves" and organised groups, plot to attack night clubs - to achieve mass casualties. Notably the two VBIEDs left outside a London night club in 2007. There was a another VBIED left near the route of a Gay Pride March around the same time IIRC.
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member AmericanPride's Avatar
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    David,

    I don't think 'lone wolf', "jihadist-inspired terrorism' or 'mass killing' are at all mutually exclusive. It can be all three at once. I think this is the future of terrorism in the United States - right, left, Islamic, or other.

    1. Mass communications and social media enables passive connectivity between sources of radicalization and would-be radicals. A 'network' exists insofar that ideological infrastructure is constructed - traditional methods of underground activities are far more risky and no longer necessary. Any wannabe terrorist can find inspiration - and direction - online.

    2. The easy accessibility of guns means that any would be radical can inflict mass casualties on soft targets. Guns are (1) easy to acquire, (2) easy to use, and (3) difficult to detect. They can be purchased without arousing investigative interest. And when it comes to reliability, guns perform at a far higher level than IEDs. The threshold for action is far lower with guns than with any other weapon.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

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    Council Member AmericanPride's Avatar
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    Related news:

    Police in the Santa Monica area of Los Angeles say they've stopped a man with assault rifles, ammunition, and possible explosives in his vehicle, reportedly headed for the L.A. Pride festival in West Hollywood. The driver, who has yet to be identified by authorities, reportedly had Indiana plates.
    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...nap-story.html

    No connection has been made to the shooting in Orlando.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

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    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    As many here know I grew up in Orlando! At one time I lived about 3 streets from where this happened. I am still geting sketchy info from old time friends. Lone Wolf is not accurate! Read Dr. Sebastian Gorka USMC instructor. Lone Wolf is feel good talk. All are connected by an INFRASTRUCTRE of radical belief!

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    My phone is going crazy! Will post more as I can.

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    Bottom line is these attacks are inspired by ideology, not illegimate government. Time to put aside outdated ideas and describe the problem correctly, and then deal with that problem. Opportunity can emerge from tragedy, opportunity to relook and revise our current approach to CT.
    Last edited by Bill Moore; 06-12-2016 at 07:52 PM.

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    Via Twitter a news agency report ISIS have claimed responsibility for the attack (below).

    Note another SME has tweeted:
    There's NO official #ISIS claim for #Orlando. We have a report by Amaq News agency, close 2 IS, saying sources say it was IS fighter
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-12-2016 at 07:56 PM.
    davidbfpo

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    His ex-wife has reported that he became violent during their marriage because of his associations???????

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    WFTV ch 9 local news in Orlando has video of Muslims teaching death to gays in local Mosques!

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    Assuming this Muslim leader is legitimate, his road just got a lot tougher. Both links below reference Muslims in Orlando prior to these attacks in a relatively positive light. The property dispute appears to be little more than keeping residential property residential. I suspect the tone will change now, further dividing Americans. This is ultimately part of Al-Qaeda's and Islamic State's strategy, they know they are not strong enough to defeat a state in direct combat with their security forces, so they seek to conduct attacks in ways that turn different groups against one another. It doesn't matter if Shia versus Sunni, Muslim versus Christian, or whatever group against gays. It is these second order effects after the terrorist attacks that destroy countries by dividing them. We can't afford to let that happen.

    http://www.wftv.com/news/local/musli...sson-/20245443

    Muslim leaders invite Trump to Orlando mosque for lesson on Islam

    Wajeeh Bajwa, president of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community’s Orlando chapter, said Islam orders Muslims to be loyal to the country they live in.

    "Originally, I'm from Pakistan,” Bajwa said. “But my loyalties are with America, because I'm an American now."

    Orlando’s Baitul-Aafiyat Mosque hosted a blood drive Saturday afternoon, which was followed by a prayer vigil for the victims of the California massacre.
    http://www.wftv.com/news/local/resid...road/157151636

    Residents fight mosque plan on Windermere Road March 16

    “This is still our little piece of paradise here,” she said, adding that her home is remote enough to keep her horse, Napoleon, in her back yard.

    Any large facility would take away from what makes the area a great place to live, Maurer said.

    The fact that it’s a mosque has nothing to do with it, she said.

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    FBI never thought gay club would be target, i.e. they are NOT threat-focused
    http://eastorlandopost.com/report-or...ther-gay-clubs

    NEVER senses to amaze me that US IC and that includes the FBI....just how little they fully understand the ideology of Sunni AND Shia Salafist jihadi's....

    Do they never watch their info war gay killing videos or read their announcements against gays or is it still being just viewed as "propaganda"...????

    13 years into this and yet they still do not "understand" what they are "seeing".....

    IS is talking to directly to the West and their "believer's" yet we are unable to "listen"....BTW...that dialogue has been ongoing since 2002 and we are now in what ....2016.....and have we learned anything from this dialogue...nothing absolutely nothing.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-13-2016 at 07:57 AM. Reason: Moved to the Orlando thread.

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    A nice tweet I saw today (From Jeffery Goldberg)

    This needs to be reiterated: Orlando massacre can be about Islamism, access to guns, homophobia and mental illness, all at the same time

    I do wish Obama had said something negative about Jihadism directly, if nothing else then as a tactical matter... He means well, but he is not helping Muslims, he is helping Trump and giving an opening to demagogues during what is an otherwise sane and measured response.

    Tho come to think of it, a sane response should probably include real action against Raqqah. Discrediting the Islamic state may have a negative impact on wannabe jihadis at this time.
    Though it may encourage others to attack.
    I have to think this through clearly.

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    Default Six things Americans should know about mass shootings

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    FBI says the #Orlando perpetrator has over three years pledged allegiance to Hezbollah, ISIS and al Nusra– which is to say, he was clueless.

    Well at least he made sure he was dealing equally with the Shia and Sunni jihadi worlds......so at least he was an "equal opportunity jihadist"....
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-13-2016 at 09:09 PM. Reason: Moved here by Moderator

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    Default Well Said

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    FBI never thought gay club would be target, i.e. they are NOT threat-focused
    http://eastorlandopost.com/report-or...ther-gay-clubs

    NEVER senses to amaze me that US IC and that includes the FBI....just how little they fully understand the ideology of Sunni AND Shia Salafist jihadi's....

    Do they never watch their info war gay killing videos or read their announcements against gays or is it still being just viewed as "propaganda"...????

    13 years into this and yet they still do not "understand" what they are "seeing".....

    IS is talking to directly to the West and their "believer's" yet we are unable to "listen"....BTW...that dialogue has been ongoing since 2002 and we are now in what ....2016.....and have we learned anything from this dialogue...nothing absolutely nothing.
    Very well said! Political ideology vs. Situation reality is the goal of our present leadership!

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Islamophobia: the catalyst for radicalisation?

    An article that is topical and the sub-title says:
    The evidence shows that alienating an entire religious community, as Donald Trump has done, will make us less safe. There are better ways to fight extremism
    Link:http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/13/radicalisation-islamophobia-orlando-shooting-florida-muslims-trump?
    davidbfpo

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    Default Jihad Denial Kills…Again

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    An American academic writes, with pie charts etc:
    I couldn't get past Bullet Point #1 without the bull#### flag being thrown.

    1) Some of the sources he cites for 'mass shootings in America' happen to include drug business slaughterfests, and the conjurists of these statistics consider anyone under 25 to be "children". But hey, don't look behind that curtain - it contradicts what you're supposed to conclude.

    2) He fails to point out that, by Florida law, Concealed License carriers are not allowed to take their weapons into areas where alcohol is the primary attraction. Therefore, all those potential elements of defense had to be left home.

    3) He also fails to point out that the murderer was already vetted to be a Security Guard - this is always an element of 'sensible gun legislation' (that only certain types of 'approved' people should be allowed to bear weapons).

    Ooops.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-15-2016 at 08:28 AM. Reason: Kan't spill werds. fix quote.
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