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Thread: UK Declares Independence From The EU!

  1. #121
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    Brexit hard to understand for Ukrainians, who fought a war to join Europe
    http://buff.ly/291TSSD

    Alastair Campbell on "our wretched right-wing, lying, anti-Europe, anti-immigrant right-wing newspapers"
    http://ibt.uk/A6Zrv


    Stars and Stripes
    ✔ @starsandstripes One impact of #Brexit is already clear: Germany is suddenly a lot more important to the US
    http://www.stripes.com/news/europe/g...parts-1.416606

    Basically Obama/Rhodes never quite got passed the comments....."Merkel is a good friend" and that was about it.....they could not get stating Germany/Merkel are a great ally and state that in public.....

  2. #122
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    UK sites starting to document massive, depressing post-Brexit referendum racism
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b08d2c56396075

    This is insane. @AmnestyUK has had to launch an anti-racism campaign in the UK. It's 2016

    Thank you Boris, Gove, Priti Patel, IDS & Fascist Farage: Halal butchers shop in Walsall petrol bombed!
    http://mend.org.uk/halal-butchers-sh...prdSmA.twitter

    IMHO...the racism and anti immigrant cries being yelled during this vote were designed to cover up the true intent....a total coup on government and the installation of an anti Europe anti immigrant right wing conservative and or UKIP party......nothing more nothing less....fed by Russian money.......over the last 10 years......

    When you turn loose the dogs of racism it is extremely hard to recage them as we are now seeing in the UK....and the attacks are increasing daily.....

    Sad statement on the condition of the current so called UK democracy.......
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-28-2016 at 06:38 PM.

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    Another of those Russian "vodka moments"........

    Trump on #Brexit: "I was on the right side of that issue as you know. W/ the people, I was there. I said it was going to happen. I felt it."

    Hard to believe only three years ago Trump wrote this pro-globalization op-ed
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/22/bu...-trump-europe/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    Azor,

    I agree with you, I'm not buying into the hysteria. In less than week After the Brexit referendum the fearmongers have described the end of Europe. Hardly, but there will be market adjustments. I'm buying into the fear. The EU is bigger than free trade, it is increasingly treading on areas of what should be state sovereignty. This is a wake up call, that theoretically presents an opportunity for needed adjustments.
    Exactly. Had the EU remained a FTA or Customs Unions there would be no issue, but the Berlaymont seems to want the entire continent to be dominated by German-style socialism. Yet Germany is a unique member of both the EU and NATO for obvious historical reasons, and the member states of the EU should not be led by a people that wants to will itself out of existence.

    Commentators are suggesting that Brexit was a coup for Putin, but it wasn't the UK Conservatives or Labour that wanted to reduce sanctions or "mend relations": it was German MPs including members of Merkel's inner circle.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azor View Post
    Exactly. Had the EU remained a FTA or Customs Unions there would be no issue, but the Berlaymont seems to want the entire continent to be dominated by German-style socialism. Yet Germany is a unique member of both the EU and NATO for obvious historical reasons, and the member states of the EU should not be led by a people that wants to will itself out of existence.

    Commentators are suggesting that Brexit was a coup for Putin, but it wasn't the UK Conservatives or Labour that wanted to reduce sanctions or "mend relations": it was German MPs including members of Merkel's inner circle.
    The EU is nothing but a German financial fourth Reich!

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azor View Post
    Exactly. Had the EU remained a FTA or Customs Unions there would be no issue, but the Berlaymont seems to want the entire continent to be dominated by German-style socialism. Yet Germany is a unique member of both the EU and NATO for obvious historical reasons, and the member states of the EU should not be led by a people that wants to will itself out of existence.

    Commentators are suggesting that Brexit was a coup for Putin, but it wasn't the UK Conservatives or Labour that wanted to reduce sanctions or "mend relations": it was German MPs including members of Merkel's inner circle.
    Here is the heart of the problem......racism is the key narrative being used by ALL the 11 active European neo rightist so called populist parties that are EVEN in the EU Parilment as per democratic elections.

    It is the same 11 neo right populist parties that since 2006 have received great attention by the FSB/SVR via money, internet info war support and invitations to neo right meetings in Russia and I can go on for a long way on this topic.

    WHY the EU is open to this is due to their multicultural environments NOt even tied at first to refugees...multicultural stresses internal to their own societies not immigrant issues. Just check the years of internal turmoil in Belgium just over the use of a "language"...or southern Austria and their terrorist groups or ETA.......

    AND it is all about the massive side effects of globalization.....AND do not think for a moment that the US is any different.

    Check the Trump movement and compare the composition of those that heavily supported Leave....white, in their 50/60s, anti immigrant due to the arugment of overloaded schools, not enough doctors, taken their jobs away that were rationalized away actually under globalaization, falling slaries blamed on cheap immigrants or illegals.

    Wake up people this is not rocket science we just need to fully understand these populist movements as they are dangerous as they tip toe along the edge of fascism and do not believe for a second "fascism cannot evolve out of a democracy".......

    What is interesting that many do not mention is all the members outside of the founders literally begged to join because they wanted the rural development funding and the single trade market BUT did not want to really do much else.

    THIS is the core issue...all new memebers outside of the founders knew what the political price to play was going to be...it was never hidden by the founders and YET all new mouthed their YES but few of them really did want to go along.

    Take Greece...Germany openly questioned their application as they sensed the Greeks were lying about their economics and budgets and now we know the Greeks did in fact lie and committed fraud in the figures they provided to join and now they are being bailed out to the tune of over 245BILLION Euros by largely Germany.

    Then being bailed out and not having to declare to the world their are literally bankrupt they accuse the "German fourth REICH" for oppressing them......

    Get a US bank loan for your house and fall behind as then tell me the bank acts no different than Germany does as the core EU paymaster as they must take it out of tax monies their own citizens paid and they answer to Germans in elections not Greeks, Italians, or Brits.

    But in the UK "crsis" pay attention to the core "narrative" and understand that "narrative".

    UK has had deep racisim for over 70 odd years and now we see it clearly but they blame the EU "free movement"...as the Brits say..."utter rubbish"....

    Example....the Brit fishermen claimed bitterly when they voted to leave...we want our fish back and we are tired of being told what and where and how much to fish.....BUT the Brits were before they joined vastly overfishing the stocks greatly effectively say French and Dutch fishermen.

    They somehow have forgotten that the stocks are recovering nicely under this tight control and the EU has slowly eased up as the stocks have recovered...but Brit fishing boats do not match those of the other EU fishers because they have not invested in their business nor taken EU funding to modernize. AND the EU even allows the Brits to take far more cod (for their fishing quotas) and chips than other EU countries...do not ask me what I pay for fresh cod in Berlin vs UK...

    But hey it is easier to blame the EU than your own outmoded way of doing business.....
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-29-2016 at 05:33 AM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azor View Post
    Exactly. Had the EU remained a FTA or Customs Unions there would be no issue, but the Berlaymont seems to want the entire continent to be dominated by German-style socialism. Yet Germany is a unique member of both the EU and NATO for obvious historical reasons, and the member states of the EU should not be led by a people that wants to will itself out of existence.

    Commentators are suggesting that Brexit was a coup for Putin, but it wasn't the UK Conservatives or Labour that wanted to reduce sanctions or "mend relations": it was German MPs including members of Merkel's inner circle.
    You know as an American who is paying Swedish and German taxes, who has a US health insurance policy, who owns a company founded in Sweden and funded by the Germans and who works and resides in Berlin.....

    CAN you define for me this so called German "socialism"????

    You do know that the German healthcare system is single payer model with the employer, government and the employee sharing a law defined percentage from each....and that you can determine the doctor and services you need by presenting your health ID. You do know that all needed drugs have a 4.50 USD fee which was dropped this year and the rest is free as are the hospitals and all medical testing...

    AND you do know that it was Bismarck that instituted this healthcare system in 1891 and I would not called him a "socialist" by any means.

    Secondly, let's take the unemployment side....if you have worked for a number of years and you become unemployed you receive for the first year 70% of your salary, then in year two 50% and you get a subsidy for your housing and healthcare BECAUSE the Germans have this weird idea that if you want to work you must have a roof over your head and be healthy...if that is "socialism" ask around what the unemployed get in the various US states.....an interesting comparison.

    THIS coverage is paid for out of a percentage determined y the state by the employer and the employee with a minimum from the government thrown in....does not appear to be socialism to me???

    THEN if in year three if you still cannot get employment fall into social welfare which is calculated to still cover a portion of your rent and healthcare is virtually free.

    THEN if you cannot find anything in your field the government steps in and retrains you into a new field with solid employment opportunities--they pick up the costs of the retraining.

    So what happens in the US at this stage.....

    Interesting question for all ..WHY is the German business and employment model so highly successful in the export field as well in the internal market and WHY is German so financially strong...THEY simply WANT you to work...WHY...because employment drives consumer sales and savings AND TAX flows.....and a reasonable level of employment ensures a relative good GDP every year.

    In the area of export...they have specialized largely in areas of specialization not matched by other countries meaning if you need something "special" it is usually found in Germany. and if they do not have it a company will build it for you.

    THEN almost all US employment these days and it had already started in 1995..all employment is "at will"...meaning you can be unemployed any time your employer wants you to be.....in many German companies once you reach a certain employment period you are permanently employed and unless you rob a bank it is until you really do rob a bank with two job reviews a year. Try to find that in the US.

    Take then pensioners who are based on having worked in low paying jobs not able to meet the minimum living levels... they receive also this social aid support.....how is that in the US...in bad economic times cat food is their only assistance to survive.....

    So a social system funded by the government, your employer and out of your own salary....is again exactly what under US definitions????

    Let's take the concept of free higher education....outside of a small student semester fee all university and technical universities are FREE......YES even if you study medicine.....although hard to get into as in the States once in you have no DEBT when you leave because it is free what would US med students say to that?....catch for doctors...when they go into private practice they can only charge X amount as the government says you studied free and this is the return to us the government and the taxpayer who paid for your education....same for lawyers and other specialist fields...absolutely free AS long as you pass your highschool degree.

    Let's not even get into the blue collar apprenticeship programs that allow you as a Master Craftsman to go back to Technical Universities to jump to Engineer status ALSO free with a stipend to cover your retraining years since you are not working.

    Let's not even get into child day care....in many areas it is free here in Germany....

    Again funded by employer, government and taxpayer.

    Let's take Sweden my "business homeland" the land of "socialism" their tax burden is a solid "50%" of your salary but all healthcare, social welfare, schools, universities, kindergartens are free and the roads have absolutely "no pot holes" and the employment rates are high.

    The Danes have a 40% rate and both have never decided to change...ever wonder why?

    UK has a flat rate of 35% taken immediately before you are paid and come nowhere close to matching them and that is even leading to their Leave vote...

    Still sound "socialist"???
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-29-2016 at 06:50 AM.

  8. #128
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    UK will never been able to return to the EU as a member regardless of what is ongoing inside the UK right now for attempts to stay in.

    Merkel stated late last night after the informal meeting of the 27 with UK not invited.

    "She sees no "wishful thinking that Brexit will be stopped as the democratic process has been conducted and it must be respected as the will of the people" (my comment even if lied to)...so the UK must get on with it even thought she considered it a massive historical mistake.

    Here is what UK leaders failed to calculate...yes the EU has problems but consider that it must address the entire needs for 400M people speaking multiple languages and having different cultures to address equally so actually they have not been such a bad job of it.

    Having rejected the EU...while UK hopes for and tries to demand compromises to get entry into the single market they just left and to block free movement... a core EU tenant..... each of the EU member states must now protect themselves and the EU and fend off the neo right/fascist tendencies that one from outside is provoking in a deliberate fashion.....

    So yes the UK will get an offer to rejoin the single market BUT they will be paying more than they did before leaving and will have no voice in the regulations and legal demands--meaning fulfill them in order to do business or simply do not trade with the EU BUT it will be tied to "free movement" something the UK Leave say they cannot do......

    The Leave camps refrain "the EU needs to trade with us" is a total farce...trade substitution will always be found and yes it will be a hiccup for a number of years but the UK will find out their EU trade was not that important to the EU...and all of those car factories UKIP is so proud of....they will be moved to the EU to maintain the tax and tariff benefits for export.

    So it looks like the UK will be outside the single market once they leave...UNLESS they shallow their Leave pride and compromise on "free movement"...

    Sad really if one thinks about it that the pied piper call of the populist movement UKIP and the Euroseptic wings of Labour and Conservatives in the end destroyed the UK......economically and politically....

    Example of how the market moves even inside the EU....after the crash of tech bubble Cisco wanted to cut 400 new factory positions in France (out of an overall total of 1,100) in order to rescue Cisco Europe overall as they had cut far more in the UK and other EU countries in order to continue doing business and not going out of business which would have led then to a high number of lost jobs everywhere in the EU.

    Cisco had just built a massive modern 300M USD factory in France and needed to lay off 400 employees out of 900...the French old employment laws and the French government blocked the job loses and stated publicly Cisco would/could never walk away from the new factory...

    Cisco held off of the French cuts until the bitter end of all the cutting.....AND then informed the French government and the French unions they were shutting down the complete factory and moving it to Germany....and then laid off all 900 employees and trucked the entire factory to Germany and there was nothing France could do under their employment laws to stop a company from simply closing down a plant and leaving France.

    THAT is exactly why in 2016 France is trying to finally modernize their employment and investment laws (actually something the EU has been telling them for years to do but resisted) and being bitterly resisted by the old Communist/Socialist led unions...how many years later??...and
    now the unions are "bitching it is the EU

    WHEN governments inside the EU make mistakes their civil societies blame automatically the EU BUT not their own governments and their poor governance...which reflects back onto the actions and or no actions taken by their own civil societies....via the democratic ballot box...
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-29-2016 at 07:24 AM.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Here is the heart of the problem......racism is the key narrative being used by ALL the 11 active European neo rightist so called populist parties that are EVEN in the EU Parilment as per democratic elections.

    It is the same 11 neo right populist parties that since 2006 have received great attention by the FSB/SVR via money, internet info war support and invitations to neo right meetings in Russia and I can go on for a long way on this topic.

    WHY the EU is open to this is due to their multicultural environments NOt even tied at first to refugees...multicultural stresses internal to their own societies not immigrant issues. Just check the years of internal turmoil in Belgium just over the use of a "language"...or southern Austria and their terrorist groups or ETA.......

    AND it is all about the massive side effects of globalization.....AND do not think for a moment that the US is any different.

    Check the Trump movement and compare the composition of those that heavily supported Leave....white, in their 50/60s, anti immigrant due to the arugment of overloaded schools, not enough doctors, taken their jobs away that were rationalized away actually under globalaization, falling slaries blamed on cheap immigrants or illegals.

    Wake up people this is not rocket science we just need to fully understand these populist movements as they are dangerous as they tip toe along the edge of fascism and do not believe for a second "fascism cannot evolve out of a democracy".......

    What is interesting that many do not mention is all the members outside of the founders literally begged to join because they wanted the rural development funding and the single trade market BUT did not want to really do much else.

    THIS is the core issue...all new memebers outside of the founders knew what the political price to play was going to be...it was never hidden by the founders and YET all new mouthed their YES but few of them really did want to go along.

    Take Greece...Germany openly questioned their application as they sensed the Greeks were lying about their economics and budgets and now we know the Greeks did in fact lie and committed fraud in the figures they provided to join and now they are being bailed out to the tune of over 245BILLION Euros by largely Germany.

    Then being bailed out and not having to declare to the world their are literally bankrupt they accuse the "German fourth REICH" for oppressing them......

    Get a US bank loan for your house and fall behind as then tell me the bank acts no different than Germany does as the core EU paymaster as they must take it out of tax monies their own citizens paid and they answer to Germans in elections not Greeks, Italians, or Brits.

    But in the UK "crsis" pay attention to the core "narrative" and understand that "narrative".

    UK has had deep racisim for over 70 odd years and now we see it clearly but they blame the EU "free movement"...as the Brits say..."utter rubbish"....

    Example....the Brit fishermen claimed bitterly when they voted to leave...we want our fish back and we are tired of being told what and where and how much to fish.....BUT the Brits were before they joined vastly overfishing the stocks greatly effectively say French and Dutch fishermen.

    They somehow have forgotten that the stocks are recovering nicely under this tight control and the EU has slowly eased up as the stocks have recovered...but Brit fishing boats do not match those of the other EU fishers because they have not invested in their business nor taken EU funding to modernize. AND the EU even allows the Brits to take far more cod (for their fishing quotas) and chips than other EU countries...do not ask me what I pay for fresh cod in Berlin vs UK...

    But hey it is easier to blame the EU than your own outmoded way of doing business.....
    This was carried by the main Russian propaganda media outlet Russia Today....

    Here is what @realDonaldTrump had to say on the #IstanbulAttack.
    ...
    I repeat: If he gets pres., we are all doomed.


    Donald Trump’s lawyer accused @HillaryClinton of murdering an ambassador and selling uranium to Russia in a tweet
    http://politi.co/29aLxzK

    While populist movements ALWAYS talk about the "little man" and the suffering of the "little man" ever notice how they are led by elites?????

    "Trump hasn’t disclosed his taxes. He hasn’t even paid them, as best we know."
    http://thebea.st/291hLrB
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-29-2016 at 08:16 AM.

  10. #130
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    This is interesting...while Hungary voices constant Eurospetic comments from their current government....."they ain't about to leave any time soon".....

    Especially since they know what is coming broadside against UK.....

    Visegrad Insight @VisegradInsight
    House Speaker: Hungary Has No Intention To Leave The European Union
    http://hungarytoday.hu/news/house-sp...an-union-49729

  11. #131
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    NOW the truth wins out in the UK as Leave ran on immigration as the smokescreen using the EU free movement requirement....so for over 40 odd years why did not the UK civil society demand better "governance" via the ballot????

    Guardian Opinion
    ✔ @guardianopinion The key lesson of Brexit is that globalisation must work for all of Britain | Gordon Brown

    http://d.gu.com/LgmntG

    Populist parties are popular until they are elected

    While populist movements ALWAYS talk about the "little man" and the suffering of the "little man" ever notice how they are led by elites?????

    The Daily Mail railed against greedy elites? Its editor is a millionaire, its owner is a billionaire
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...125_story.html

    AND the leader of UKIP has been shown by the Panama Papers to have a massive off shore account structure in place.....why....
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-29-2016 at 08:04 AM.

  12. #132
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    15 maps and charts that explain the EU referendum

    http://i100.io/UW6cwsO

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    What civil society accepted reunification internal taxation levels, good governance and EU funding achieves.......

    Oranienburger Strasse, Unter den Linden - so sah es 1980 in Ost-Berlin aus - und so heute.
    http://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/ost-berlin-1980-2016/

    East Berlin 1980 and the streets I often walked in those days as the trams and potholes were really bad and today.....and then after 20:00 it was totally dark and now????

    This is the result of good governance/rule of law/transparency and a civil society that paid it's dues via internal taxation and the wise use of EU funds via the ballot....and yet one wonders why they inherently lead the EU??

    AND the UK????
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-29-2016 at 08:13 AM.

  14. #134
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    All have wanted Merkel to led and now she is leading both in Brexit and in Ukraine and the US is not going to like it one bit....

    There can be absolutely no elections in eastern Ukraine until there is a complete a formal ceasefire.

    Merkel: Die Wahlen in der Donbass ist jetzt unmglich...erst nach der vollstndigen Einstellung des Feuers.

    While the Obama/Rhodes/Kerry/Nuland WH is trying desperately to get a peace deal before he leaves for his legacy and is pushing for elections to cave to Russia to get the deal.....

  15. #135
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    AND here is no racism in the main UK political parties......think again......

    Boris Johnson for PM group ask if Tories want Muslim chancellor OR ‘British patriot’ #Brexit
    https://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/...ritish-patriot

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    AND from the Greeks last night.......

    In which Tsipras (quite rightly) takes the mickey out of Cameron's crisis-management skills
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b7d9e87e-3...#axzz4Cwlvj0FN

    This is how badly some UK MSM know the EU...from today......

    So @TheSun thinks Belarus is in the EU

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    ‘Mr Cameron told European leaders that Mr Johnson and his fellow Brexit campaigners had “no plan”’

    How will EU divy up the City of London? This is base-case: Euro-clearing to Frankfurt and rest to Paris, Amsterdam to avoid #Frexit, #Nexit.
    France has already made this plan public. Hollande utterly clear on exactly what he wants Paris to grab from London.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e8e0c44a-3...#axzz4CxmXutzs

    Hollande: free movement key to future UK access to EU market
    http://www.unian.info/economics/1390...eu-market.html

    Hollande is particularly keen to grab as many banks as he can from London: a sudden rush of banks to Paris could turn his Presidency around.

    It is crucial to understand EU must at all costs stop Le Pen winning in 2017. Best way to do this? Reward France the banks and their taxes.

    City analysts I met look with unbrindled distain on a Tory leadership class they think are simply muppets. No clue what's about to hit them.

    The next Tory muchkin leader would then be a hideous position: have his tax base slashed at by loss of banks as his voters rejoice.

    British public will be left moronically clapping the huge triumph of a few less Poles and the punishment for "bankers" and tax base slashed.

    Paris and Frankfurt would emerge as enormous winners by ending passporting. Hugely boosting popularity of French and German leadership.

    Msg to Tory leadership hopefuls: Merkel said yesterday 'no cherry picking', i.e. UK/EU options like 'Norway minus free movement' won't fly
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-29-2016 at 10:56 AM.

  18. #138
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    Between the US and the "new UK," everything will need to be reinvented:
    http://brook.gs/292kln8

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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    ‘Mr Cameron told European leaders that Mr Johnson and his fellow Brexit campaigners had “no plan”’

    How will EU divy up the City of London? This is base-case: Euro-clearing to Frankfurt and rest to Paris, Amsterdam to avoid #Frexit, #Nexit.
    France has already made this plan public. Hollande utterly clear on exactly what he wants Paris to grab from London.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e8e0c44a-3...#axzz4CxmXutzs

    Hollande: free movement key to future UK access to EU market
    http://www.unian.info/economics/1390...eu-market.html

    Hollande is particularly keen to grab as many banks as he can from London: a sudden rush of banks to Paris could turn his Presidency around.

    It is crucial to understand EU must at all costs stop Le Pen winning in 2017. Best way to do this? Reward France the banks and their taxes.

    City analysts I met look with unbrindled distain on a Tory leadership class they think are simply muppets. No clue what's about to hit them.

    The next Tory muchkin leader would then be a hideous position: have his tax base slashed at by loss of banks as his voters rejoice.

    British public will be left moronically clapping the huge triumph of a few less Poles and the punishment for "bankers" and tax base slashed.

    Paris and Frankfurt would emerge as enormous winners by ending passporting. Hugely boosting popularity of French and German leadership.

    Msg to Tory leadership hopefuls: Merkel said yesterday 'no cherry picking', i.e. UK/EU options like 'Norway minus free movement' won't fly
    Light humor.....
    I'm shocked, shocked that France sees Brexit as an opportunity for predatory economic benefit at Britain's expense.

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    Siemens a German company and five other top EU companies in UK are now indicating they will be pulling out after Brexit process starts....

    EU car producers are indicating they will long term being pulling out as well...over 450K UK jobs are tied to their staying inside the single market BUT the EU has stated openly, directly and concisely only with free movement...BUT Leave said no to free movement.....
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 06-29-2016 at 11:22 AM.

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