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Thread: Complaceny Kills... use link to teach Marines/Soldiers

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    Default Complaceny Kills... use link to teach Marines/Soldiers

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb4_1174174085

    Please view very disturbing link recently posted on liveleak.com.

    I'm posting this here with the assumption that most readers support the current strategy of moving our forces in with the people and out of the fortress FOBs. I certainly do. There's an increase in risk, at least initially, with this plan until we build relations w/ the people and create a legitimate indigenous force to operate alongside. This link demonstrates the importance of why we can never get complacent; why more armor, sappi plates, NVGs, etc. aren't the answer; and why we need to make sure our Marines/Soldiers understand the dedication and strategy of our enemies.

    Truly disturbing that this insurgent was able to pull this off and have his buddy covering him with a video camera in the process. Reminds me very much of the tactics discussed in Poole's Phantom Soldier, Tactics of the Crescent Moon, and Terrorist Trail.

    I'll use this link to reinforce enemy TTPs and what we must do to combat them.

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    Default Disturbing

    While it is hard to form the perfect 24-7 defense in an urban area I can't believe a tank was left unsecured with that much dead space around it? I only hope no one was in it, but still that is well over a million dollars up in smoke. The enemy showed tactical common sense by good use of dead space, and audacity to make two trips (second apparently to put a fuel/oil mixture in place to ensure we had plenty of flame and smoke for additional damage and drama effect). I don't know why, I seen worse videos of soldiers being mutilated, but this one was very disturbing.
    Last edited by Bill Moore; 03-19-2007 at 03:00 AM. Reason: change deserving to what I intended disturbing.

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    Council Member jmcavin's Avatar
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    Default Two Possibilities . . .

    Two possible examples of complacency. Both disturbing and lethal.

    1) The Bradley is occuied and no scouts out for local security. Whether they entered a nearby building, or were on a security halt, local ground security is a MUST.

    2) The Bradley is unoccupied/abandoned. This defies all training and common sense, but so do the events depicted in the video.

    I was unable to make out what was depicted in the red circle on the video. Was it another Bradley in "overwatch"?

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    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default An EOD Perspective

    Hi Maximus !

    I'm posting this here with the assumption that most readers support the current strategy of moving our forces in with the people and out of the fortress FOBs. I certainly do.
    Based on my background in hostile environments and upheavals, as well as time in Armor, I disagree with being moved into the 'neighborhood'. The Bradley's unoccupied location as Bill and JM point out so well, is merely an invitation.

    The orange/yellowish plenum immediately following the detonation indicates the presence of military-grade high explosives (RDX or GI Joe Comp. B). The addition of some 30 liters of fuel to create a quasi ANFO was as Bill put, Holywood effects. The undercarriage of the Bradley and the detonation of HBX would have simply scattered the fuel oil all over, but performing little more.

    Looks like Bravo Sierra propaganda, especially three repeated detonations and the horrible ranting and music

    Indeed a shame and an expensive lesson.

    JM, I saw the red circle as the forward observer for the enemy team. He must've had some big cajones to remain there !

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    Council Member RTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmcavin View Post
    Two possible examples of complacency. Both disturbing and lethal.

    1) The Bradley is occuied and no scouts out for local security. Whether they entered a nearby building, or were on a security halt, local ground security is a MUST.

    2) The Bradley is unoccupied/abandoned. This defies all training and common sense, but so do the events depicted in the video.

    I was unable to make out what was depicted in the red circle on the video. Was it another Bradley in "overwatch"?
    A few thoughts, as a scout and bradley guy.

    1. If the brad is occupied, I have real problems with the fact that the turret doesn't move an inch the entire time. They're in a closed protected security posture and the ISU doghouse doors are open (typically you close these if you're going to park the system). This necessitates active turrets. The more active the weapons platform, the less inclined they are to mess with you. Goes with the principle "if you look like you're getting ready to get into a fight, they probably won't mess with you."

    2. That red circle is the insurgent overwatch. After the satchel goes off, you can hear the RPK fire and see impacts.

    3. The Bradley is looking right at the film crew. If anyone was watching their thermals in the turret they'd be able to see this.

    Scary indeed. I'm going to use this video in my classes from here on out.

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    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting that for the educational value. I used to command a platoon of those back in the early 90's and even then it possessed great optic devices. Plus, as others have pointed out it appears to be isolated and without any interlocking support from other Bradlys or even dismounts.... Strange.....

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    Council Member Ironhorse's Avatar
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    Default My guess is some folks were inside

    Like RTK says. Plus the insurgent actions indicate they believed it was occupied.

    Unless they stole it off the lot and staged the whole thing.

    But I think the most likely solution is some lads lost their lives in an unfortunate moment of less diligence, and some insurgents with big brass ones were drinking tea that eve talking about it and watching it.

    This will get around to reinforce the point we all already know. Bradley, LAV, truck, etc. - Maximus hit it head on. Complacency kills.

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    To be honest, it truly pained me to post this link. That said I think we often fail to give our enemy credit and consequently don't train our Marines/Soldiers for the true threat. And then we're surprised by things like this. Still very disturbing. We must never let this happen again!

    WRT comments about whether moving in among the people is a good idea... I say 100% yes in trying to defeat an insurgency. Without moving in among the people, sharing risk and comparable living style, providing security, establishing relations, etc. we'll never get the average Iraqi to support our cause nor will we get the information needed to defeat/destroy the insurgency. This strategy has worked in transforming what once was Zarqawi's home in the "Wild West" of Al Qaim, in Tal Afar, we've seen significant progress in Ramadi over the past year w/ both Marine, Army, IA and IP clear, hold, build in effect. We definitely assume risk in going fwd with the current strategy but this is where leadership comes in. To the specifics on whether it's a good idea to bring Bradleys into urban areas, I'm not a Bradley guy so don't want to speak on this, except to say that I was certainly glad to have a platoon of Army Bradleys attached to a Marine tank platoon during some very high intensity urban fighting in the summer of '04. Bradleys can take a beaten and deliver a whole ton of pain as well. The key is, as many of you said, applying the basics: dismounted security in overwatch, local patrols, scanning with thermals, setting up trip flares IVO dead space, etc. Again Leadership 101.

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    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
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    Default

    I am glad you posted it. A little dose of reality is good sometimes and there are lessons to be learned from things like it. When it's 0400 and you have had little sleep for awhile and want to take a quick nap maybe this will pop up in the recesses of the mind and keep you up for a little longer. Whether you are in Fallujah or sitting in a Patrol car somewhere waiting until you can get back to the barn.

    It reminds me of a story I recently heard of a M1 MBT on overwatch for a Traffic Control Point getting "tagged" by individuals with spray paint. If the guy wasn't my best friend I wouldn't even believe it. His theory was the sniper threat is so great the crew didn't want to risk exposing themselves to shoo them away...Not sure if there were dismounts there or what. I heard the story when he first came back from a TDY gig and I was just glad he was back and didn't go into any details.

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    If the Marines bring in those Israeli made units, that's exactly what will happen. Kids with spray paint will mark them "made by Jews" or put the star of David on them. Mix and mingle all you want but a couple of cans of spray paint can offset a thousand smiles and sallam alleuikums. Shoo the kids away and get hit by a sniper, force them away and you are bullying children. This better be reconsidered.

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    Default PM Maliki Says: Just Say No

    Taken from the Jerusalem Post, 3/20:

    "The US-backed Iraqi government is enforcing the Arab boycott of Israel with increasing frequency, The Jerusalem Post has learned, with the number of boycott-related incidents involving US firms operating in Iraq nearly quadrupling last year, according to official US statistics.

    In its recently released annual report for 2006, the US Commerce Department's Bureau of Industry and Security noted that there had been 31 cases in which the Iraqi government had engaged in restrictive trade practices last year.

    In 2005, according to the previous year's report, there were a total of just eight such cases involving Iraq."

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    Default On The Other Hand, What They Don't Know Won't Hurt 'Em

    Taken from the Israeli Newspaper Haaretz, 3/20/07:

    "Elbit Systems: Israeli-made drones in action in Iraq, Afghanistan
    20.3.07 | 12:00 By AP

    Small Israeli-made pilotless planes are gathering intelligence for U.S.-led forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, the manufacturer said in a statement Monday.

    Elbit Systems, one of Israel's leading defense electronics companies, said the little Skylark can be carried and operated by a single soldier, covering an area within a range of 6 miles day or night, the company said. It did not give details of its exact size or weight.

    Skylark is operational and currently deployed in the global war on terror in Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan, the statement said. It described the Skylark as suited for close range, beyond-the-next hill, counter-terror missions.

    Lt. Col. Matthew McLaughlin of CENTCOM, the American command that handles Iraq and Afghanistan, said the military would not confirm the use of the drone...."

    (wink, wink)

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    Council Member tequila's Avatar
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    Saw this video posted over at Lightfighter. The Bradley in this case is definitely occupied - watch the turret move just as the device blows.

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    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    I don't know which is more disconcerting, the video of the Brad being blown up, or the range of comments posted below. How do you fight that sense of zeal and enthusiasm, if it isn't just silly posers?

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    Council Member Armchairguy's Avatar
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    Default There's a lot of A-holes

    The posters under the video are all over the world. I'm guessing many of them fall into the category of America hater which is a very popular pastime based on a lack of critical thinking. In other words a bunch of A-holes with nothing to do except use their parents computers to watch videos like this and post stupid remarks. Ever have an argument with one? I have. It's pretty frustrating when despite having no rational basis for their thoughts and feelings they still won't budge. i don't think we should worry about them too much as those with critical thinking are the only ones we can reach anyway.

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    wow. the gunner must have been asleep or something. I can see why the driver didnt see him. god why couldnt i be in a light unit
    Last edited by neowolfe; 09-26-2007 at 12:38 AM.

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    Council Member RTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neowolfe View Post
    wow. the gunner must have been asleep or something. I can see why the driver didnt see him. god why couldnt i be in a light unit
    This is why you don't turtle up, even with a tank. Local security, no matter what your vehicle set s, is always of paramount importance.
    Example is better than precept.

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    In the heat of the day, lying up in a grove, probably not getting a lot of sleep, and with nothin' apparently happening, it would be all too easy to get lazy, stick one guy in the turret (buttoned up to avoid any sniper that might be in the area), and leave it at that.

    I would have thought that there would have been at least a junior NCO around to make sure people were on their toes, and that two guys from the crew would have been quietly lurking in the background just in case some baddies got some ideas. Unless all crew members but one had to be taken along to shore up a depleted dismount rifle squad/recce team, what went on with that Brad just shouldn't have happened, at all.

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