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Thread: Syria in 2016 (October onwards)

  1. #2421
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    The battle of #Aleppo "sets a horrific precedent for conflicts in the 21st century"
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini....c24e00fe1370#
    Yawn. WaPo must have a short memory. Now that the Neo-Conservatives endorsed Hillary Clinton, Iraq is forgotten...

    Africa continues to suffer and is practically begging for regime-change and nation building, but *crickets*

  2. #2422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azor View Post
    I don’t think that Surkov’s “non-linear warfare” is helpful to our understanding of Ukraine or Syria any more than his “managed democracy”, except perhaps as a polite euphemism.

    The true beginning of Putin’s more intelligent use of power was in Chechnya, where he co-opted the Kadyrovs.

    Looking at Russia’s various aggressions during Putin’s rule, Crimea is actually an outlier.

    In every other operation, Russia extensively relied upon local auxiliaries, including criminals and paramilitary organizations, and in all cases, there is both cooperation and conflict between Russia and these auxiliaries, and among the auxiliaries themselves.

    You have reported on the anarchy in Donbas and CrowBat has reported on it in Syria, most recently in WarIsBoring. Yet these conditions also prevailed in Chechnya, Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The assassinations in Donbas are reminiscent of the consolidation of Russian/Kadyrotsi rule in Chechnya. Certainly, Putin’s ideal is Transnistria, but he has no problem dealing with the anarchy in Syria, even if he is the junior partner.

    It is interesting that you chose 2002 as the start of Putin’s conflict with the West. It coincides with the NATO summit in Prague, during which the former Soviet republics and Russian imperial subjects of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were invited to join NATO, which would now border Russia, Kaliningrad and Murmansk notwithstanding. In addition, NATO decided to continue to increase membership and to form the Response Force. At the summit, Bush called for a “coalition of the willing” to invade Iraq.

    Putin clearly arrived at the following conclusions:

    1. NATO membership would be offered to other countries bordering Russia, which it was later (to 3 of 5 prospective members)
    2. NATO was taking on the character of an offensive military alliance, given the operations in the former Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, the formation of the Response Force and the call for a “coalition of the willing” of NATO members to invade a country outside of Europe
    3. NATO was not concerned about Russian preferences in Kosovo or with respect to the expansion of NATO
    4. NATO was continuing a policy of containment and perhaps even rollback toward Russia, even though Russia was not in conflict with NATO


    Nor do I regard the unresolved border conflicts that Putin inherited from Yeltsin as signs of expansion. Putin obviously wants to retain the status quo in order to have outposts in Moldova and Georgia, but his de facto annexation of Abkhazia and South Ossetia did not occur until Georgia launched a war (and committed war crimes), until Georgia advanced toward NATO membership and until Kosovo had been recognized as independent of Serbia by the United States and most of NATO.

    This is not to say that the conflict between the West and Russia is the fault of the West. In all probability, Russia could never have integrated with the West. Incorporation into the European Union would have meant the destruction of Russia’s mafia state and economic domination by Western Europe in general, and Germany in particular. Incorporation into NATO would have meant that Russia could never engage in aggression against its neighbors and that it could not rely on nuclear saber-rattling to receive special treatment diplomatically. Nevertheless, Clinton and Bush acted stupidly and exacerbated the problem.



    After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the United States did not expect Russia to attack it, and until recently did not consider a deliberate first strike as possible. Similarly, both the UK and France are surrounded by allies and there is no realistic threat of either country being invaded, again excluding recent tensions with Russia. All three are also members of the world’s most powerful military alliance with such conventional power that nuclear weapons are regarded as a last resort. So why then did all three countries maintain and upgrade their nuclear arsenals over the past 25-odd years? Why do both Russia and the United States monitor one another’s compliance with INF and START? See where I’m going?

    As you are enlightened as to BMD, can you answer me the following questions:

    • Why were these systems located in Central Europe rather than closer to Iran, or in the countries most likely to be targeted by Iran?
    • Was there no possibility that these systems could be upgraded so as to intercept Russia’s ICBMs or SLBMs?
    • Was there no possibility that these facilities could be upgraded to feature offensive weapons such as SRBMs, or even banned weapons such as GLCMs or IRBMs?
    • Were these facilities not permanent and therefore in violation of the CFE Treaty?


    There is no treaty on tactical nuclear weapons, so does Russia not have a right to use them for deterrence?

    Do you disagree with Clark Murdock on Russia’s concerns over MAD?
    Here we go.....

    1. I am deeply concerned with the new Russian first strike doctrine changed in late 2013 and announced again in 2014 using tactical nukes as that actually defeats the purpose of MAD...which was based largely and initially on ICBMs.....

    2. I do think that Putin truly believes that he could in fact tactical first strike before the West could react and thus force the West into a military decision to go full retaliatory with all the destruction which he feels then would force the West to not retaliate and settle the issue with Putin BECAUSE the West cannot match the tactical nuke abilities of the current Russian military....yes they can deliver via aircraft...but nuclear tipped cruise missiles and or SS21 style delivery vehicles NATO does not have...most of these were removed from the inventories years ago when everyone thought peace for good had broken out...

    3. check the Russian frozen conflicts on the map and you will se Russia has built a "wall" on their western border that allows them to use these enclaves as "excuses" ie protecting Russian speakers and or defending Russian stationed troops called "peacekeepers" which they are not as they have been tied into the overall new Russian military districts....physically located back in Russia...this allows Putin to challenge the West any time he wants by simply "heating up" a frozen conflict at will...

    4. Reference BDM....all sites foresee the use of Patriot Block 3 missiles....do some research on Patriots a lot on open source on the subject and you will notice that the reload of the batteries is always dictated by field demands/uses via missile Blocks 1, 2 or 3...depends on the types of targets they anticipate seeing and that they cannot simply on the fly suddenly use a missile from one Block designed for another target set if a different target set is inbound....sure they can fire at inbound missiles with the wrong Block but percentage of hits drops...

    Patriot batteries can fire at literally anything if detected/acquired by radar....THAT is exactly why I think the Russians are vehemently against them... it does in fact negate the new Russian banned weapons such as the GLCM....that alone would then negate the new Russian doctrine of tactical first strike taking them back to the drawing board of MAD.....

    There is always upgrades ongoing with the Patriots but in the realm of software which allows for a better target identification and in the removal of "possible false positive detections" of inbound targets.....

    A lot of the Patriot locations are determined by fields of fire meaning where to best fire in order to get the best missile launch to ensure accurate hits....and how the sites can be tied into radar detection centers....most of the time the launched missile has to reach a certain height and angle for a better kill...

    BUT again as long as no THADD is forward deployed into Europe then the BMD is not a threat to the Russian strategic ICBM threat and MAD is safe and sound.....THADD can in theory be based n the US but detection rates then fall due to the sheer distances of detection that ensue...BUT one could in theory tie it to targeting satellites but that is a waste of satellite time and space...and that is usually limited time wise and orbit wise...

    The Russians BTW know all of these as they monitor intensely all US Patriot unit movements like a hawk does it's prey.......
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-19-2016 at 10:17 AM.

  3. #2423
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    Iran: Our relationship with #Russia is now strategic

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...ow-strategic/#

  4. #2424
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    Syria's youngest poster has made it out of Aleppo with her mother and sister...father was killed in an air strike....


    So happy to see that @AlabedBana was safely evacuated from besieged #Aleppo, but sad she had to leave her home.

  5. #2425
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    Breaking. #ISIS claims shot down a #Russia|n attack helicopter over #Tiyas Airbase in E. #Homs.

    BREAKING — UN Security Council unanimously adopts the resolution to send observers to Aleppo
    http://sabahdai.ly/buX0eR

    What a joke. The evac is nearly done. They're going to monitor ruins + good words for Assad rebuilding/"reconciliation"

    Assad airstrikes targeted Shifouniya & Misraba in rural #Damascus this morning as well
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-19-2016 at 04:56 PM.

  6. #2426
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    Russian state media reports the country's ambassador to Turkey Andrey Karlov has died after being shot at an art exhibition in Ankara

    BREAKING Russian state-run agency RIA cites source saying Russian ambassador to #Ankara, Andrey Karlov is dead. #Russia

    BREAKING The video shows the attack scene moments after Russian Ambassador shot to death. He shouts "don't forget Aleppo, Syria"

    Turkey PM issues temporary gag order on "All news, images and comment" regr the armed assault to Russian Amb. Karlov
    https://www.rtuk.gov.tr/alt-siteler/...i-karari.html#

    Russian ambassador to Turkey, Andrey Karlov, was shot multiple times while giving a speech, state media says
    http://cnn.it/2h463Fe

    NOW Russian info warfare is kicking into high gear over this killing.....

    Belligerent Russian expert, operating in default mode, says America is responsible for the shooting of Moscow's ambassador to Turkey

    WHO is the individual...social media now in the process of searching to see if anything exists on the individual on the entire net....

    Spreading that video of Russian ambassador's assassination is essentially amplifying the assassin's message. Consider before retweeting.

    Putin being briefed on killing of Russian ambassador in #Ankara. Big Q how he responds—relations have been up & down
    http://www.interfax.ru/russia/542104
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-19-2016 at 05:42 PM.

  7. #2427
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    The CL2 Before the Storm — Alleged Chemical Attacks in Aleppo in the Last Months of 2016 via @bellingcat
    https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena...re-the-storm/#

  8. #2428
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    How Putin’s Fake News Machine Spread From Ukraine Across the#Globe

    Outrageous media hoaxes, Internet trolls and repression at home are all key instruments in the Kremlin’s political tool#box

    https://warisboring.com/how-putins-f...919#.fqiavxv3i

  9. #2429
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Russian state media reports the country's ambassador to Turkey Andrey Karlov has died after being shot at an art exhibition in Ankara

    BREAKING Russian state-run agency RIA cites source saying Russian ambassador to #Ankara, Andrey Karlov is dead. #Russia

    BREAKING The video shows the attack scene moments after Russian Ambassador shot to death. He shouts "don't forget Aleppo, Syria"

    Turkey PM issues temporary gag order on "All news, images and comment" regr the armed assault to Russian Amb. Karlov
    https://www.rtuk.gov.tr/alt-siteler/...i-karari.html#

    Russian ambassador to Turkey, Andrey Karlov, was shot multiple times while giving a speech, state media says
    http://cnn.it/2h463Fe

    NOW Russian info warfare is kicking into high gear over this killing.....

    Belligerent Russian expert, operating in default mode, says America is responsible for the shooting of Moscow's ambassador to Turkey

    WHO is the individual...social media now in the process of searching to see if anything exists on the individual on the entire net....

    Spreading that video of Russian ambassador's assassination is essentially amplifying the assassin's message. Consider before retweeting.

    Putin being briefed on killing of Russian ambassador in #Ankara. Big Q how he responds—relations have been up & down
    http://www.interfax.ru/russia/542104
    Russia gags local media from reporting on the shooting in Ankara. Unconfirmed reports Russian Ambassador has now died

    Ambassador has now died. This is now a full-on regional crisis. Killing of diplomats breaks every international norm. #Russia will react.

    Ankara was always a dangerous place for ambassadors: in 1942 Soviet NKVD was trying to kill von Papen to drag neutral Turkey into the war

  10. #2430
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    Russian info warfare deep at work......

    One talking head after another goes on Kremlin TV to insinuate Ankara assassination planned by powers opposed to Russia as Mideast player.

  11. #2431
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    Quick identification by social media of the shooter......

    The attacker is 22 years-old Turkish police M.M.A from Ankara police special force department..

    How did he hide his being a jihadi as they are claims he shouts jihadi slogans at the scene of the shooting...

    Is this a possible false flag....this does not make sense..how did he hide it from others in his department especially after the coup....

    Very imp: pro-AKP journo A.Selvi: attacker's Arabic reciting is also al Nusra's anthem or slogan's beginning: "we obey the jihad order"


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    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-19-2016 at 05:57 PM.

  12. #2432
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    Graphic picture of the gunman's body shows multiple gunshots on the wall #Turkey

    Translation of the Turkish parts in the video of the gunman's words after shooting the Russian ambassador. Video:
    http://m.t24.com.tr/haber/rus-buyuke...-yapti,377926#
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-19-2016 at 06:05 PM.

  13. #2433
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    Where are the political condemnations of Russia murdering, in a most horrendous fashion, 5 Ukrainian soldiers defending UA yesterday??

    SIX wounded yesterday and another 4 today in a series of massive Russian ground attacks in two locations confirmed by OSCE...

    World's eyes are on Ankara, but in past 48 hrs Russia/proxies stepped up the war on #Ukraine. 5 UA soldiers dead. Now attacks in #Toretsk

  14. #2434
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    Murdered at the request of a @NATO government.
    Yet another inverted Russian CGI / VFX claim.
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  15. #2435
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    Palmyra: The downed helicopter was probably a #Syria|n Gazelle. #Tiyas
    Palmyra: #ISIS has killed the #Assad Brigadier General Ali Mahmoud, commander of the #Tiyas Airbase, today.

  16. #2436
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    Appears to have been a truck attack into a Xmas market here in Berlin this evening....am lucky.... we were there this afternoon to avoid the large evening crowds....no barriers as the market is bordered by two major roads..

    Terror attack not being ruled out....several dead and a high number of injured being first reported......by the Berlin Fire Department

    BREAKING: Driver of the truck is on the run according to German media sources

    Lorry crash at Christmas market at Breitscheidplatz in Berlin is deliberate attack, German police say



    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-19-2016 at 08:10 PM.

  17. #2437
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    Default To OUTLAW 09

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09
    1. I am deeply concerned with the new Russian first strike doctrine changed in late 2013 and announced again in 2014 using tactical nukes as that actually defeats the purpose of MAD...which was based largely and initially on ICBMs...
    I think that you are conflating Russia’s official declared nuclear doctrine with controversial statements made by Russian officials, politicians and analysts in recent years.

    Russia’s 2010 doctrine was the first to declare that Russia could respond to conventional aggression with nuclear weapons, although the idea had been gaining ground since 2003 or earlier. Putin is keenly aware of Russia’s conventional weakness and so I do not believe that he ever believed that a NATO-Russia conflict would not escalate to the nuclear level. Russia has used nuclear weapons in its exercises since 2000 and it has increasingly relied upon nuclear deterrence. Tactical nuclear weapons do not negate MAD (initially based upon strategic bombers rather than ballistic missiles); rather, they provide more options, or what McNamara referred to as a “flexible response”.

    Note that during the period of American conventional weakness, the US Army deployed nuclear-armed recoilless rifles and US nuclear doctrine post-New Look/Massive Retaliation provided for degrees of nuclear escalation e.g. tactical first, counterforce first, etc. I feel like a broken record here, but the similarities between how US and Russian/Soviet nuclear doctrine is predicated upon conventional capability should be very apparent.

    According to Mark Galeotti, the concept of “nuclear de-escalation” is not taken seriously by the General Staff or Ministry of Defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09
    2. I do think that Putin truly believes that he could in fact tactical first strike before the West could react and thus force the West into a military decision to go full retaliatory with all the destruction which he feels then would force the West to not retaliate and settle the issue with Putin BECAUSE the West cannot match the tactical nuke abilities of the current Russian military...yes they can deliver via aircraft...but nuclear tipped cruise missiles and or SS21 style delivery vehicles NATO does not have...most of these were removed from the inventories years ago when everyone thought peace for good had broken out...
    Putin does not believe in “nuclear de-escalation”.

    Firstly, there is the issue of the target of the tactical warhead strike. Would Russia detonate a nuclear weapon in the Baltic, Black or North Seas as a demonstration that inflicts no casualties? Would Russia strike at a civilian target such as Warsaw or Bucharest? Would Russia strike at a military target? Putin may be a gambler but he would be insane to think that NATO would tolerate nuclear mass murder in East-Central Europe. As for military targets, how can Putin know how the French, British or American people will respond if their soldiers are among the victims? Each has separate nuclear C2, and each could decide to respond with nuclear weapons. If the victims are all Polish soldiers and the attack is unanswered, the US-led alliance will not survive accusations of “Western betrayal” (for the third time in the Poles’ view).

    Secondly, NATO can hammer Russia with conventional stand-off weapons and destroy the Russian state without resorting to nuclear weapons, and this would first involve attacking Russia’s tactical nuclear assets. Nor is NATO reliant upon stand-off weapons given the stealth and capacity of the B-2s. This would allow NATO to secure the moral high ground and escalation dominance, as Putin will be forced to respond while knowing that NATO is still retaining its tactical and strategic nuclear capabilities and is now on full alert.

    Thirdly, the enormous risks of “nuclear de-escalation”, given that neither the Americans nor Russians ever believed that a limited nuclear war was possible or a conventional-only war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact or Russia, what objective would be worth it?

    I also believe that you are confusing the SS-21 for the SS-26 Iskander…

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09
    3. check the Russian frozen conflicts on the map and you will se Russia has built a "wall" on their western border that allows them to use these enclaves as "excuses" ie protecting Russian speakers and or defending Russian stationed troops called "peacekeepers" which they are not as they have been tied into the overall new Russian military districts....physically located back in Russia...this allows Putin to challenge the West any time he wants by simply "heating up" a frozen conflict at will...
    Russia has only turned up the heat when it felt that it was pushing back against NATO or the EU, first in Georgia and then in Ukraine. It is not as though Russia has been creating a second Kaliningrad in Transnistria, which would allow Putin to menace Russia’s southeastern flank.

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09
    4. Reference BDM....all sites foresee the use of Patriot Block 3 missiles...

    Patriot batteries can fire at literally anything if detected/acquired by radar....THAT is exactly why I think the Russians are vehemently against them... it does in fact negate the new Russian banned weapons such as the GLCM....that alone would then negate the new Russian doctrine of tactical first strike taking them back to the drawing board of MAD.....
    For someone well-versed in BMD, it surprises me that you mistook the Tochkha for the Iskander, and that you are conflating the GMD and the Patriot.

    The US-Polish agreement under Bush was to install a number of GBIs in Poland of the same variant deployed in Alaska and California. In addition, Poland would receive PAC-3 batteries for air defense, which it considered of far more importance. Basically, the US wanted to create a branch of GMD in Poland to counter ballistic missiles, while Poland wanted an advanced SAM to mainly counter Russian aircraft. The GBI uses ERIS technology from the SDI, whereas PAC-3 uses ERINT. Given the US withdrawal from the ABM Treaty, how could Russia not see the expansion of GMD to Central Europe as an attempt to target Russian ICBMs?

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09
    BUT again as long as no THADD is forward deployed into Europe then the BMD is not a threat to the Russian strategic ICBM threat and MAD is safe and sound.....THADD can in theory be based n the US but detection rates then fall due to the sheer distances of detection that ensue...BUT one could in theory tie it to targeting satellites but that is a waste of satellite time and space...and that is usually limited time wise and orbit wise...
    THAAD also uses ERIS technology but is more intended for SRBMs and IRBMs rather than ICBMs. Obviously, there are developments to fuse GMD, THAAD, Aegis BMD and Patriot into one layered system that can protect against all types of ballistic missiles and even cruise missiles in the future, with the missiles complemented by railguns and lasers. This ties in with your point above about the importance of the various programs' radars (e.g. PAC-3) to other systems.

  18. #2438
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Graphic picture of the gunman's body shows multiple gunshots on the wall #Turkey

    Translation of the Turkish parts in the video of the gunman's words after shooting the Russian ambassador. Video:
    http://m.t24.com.tr/haber/rus-buyuke...-yapti,377926#
    Great reporting on this, by the way.

    Between Ankara and Berlin, I wonder if the adherents of the "religion of peace" have any more holiday cheer to share.

    Glad you and yours are safe given your enjoyment of Berlin's attractions.

  19. #2439
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Appears to have been a truck attack into a Xmas market here in Berlin this evening....am lucky.... we were there this afternoon to avoid the large evening crowds....no barriers as the market is bordered by two major roads..

    Terror attack not being ruled out....several dead and a high number of injured being first reported......by the Berlin Fire Department

    BREAKING: Driver of the truck is on the run according to German media sources

    Lorry crash at Christmas market at Breitscheidplatz in Berlin is deliberate attack, German police say


    Multiple reports are saying multiple figures..right now trending is 9 killed and 50 plus injured....

    A mob of #Americans now tries to tell me, that because Germans aren't reacting like a hysteric mob, #Germany is in trouble... ... ...

    Those speculating should note that Germany already experienced three attacks this year. They only had a marginal impact on political polls
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-19-2016 at 09:05 PM.

  20. #2440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azor View Post
    Great reporting on this, by the way.

    Between Ankara and Berlin, I wonder if the adherents of the "religion of peace" have any more holiday cheer to share.

    Glad you and yours are safe given your enjoyment of Berlin's attractions.
    What is sad is that many Syrian refugees are in the city and largely very supportive of German efforts and actually quite secular.....and have vocally pushed back on the conservative Turkish mosques....


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