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Thread: Syria in 2016 (October onwards)

  1. #2441
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    This is coming via the Berliner Police this evening....

    PolizeiBerlinEinsatz

    @PolizeiBerlin_E
    Bitte helfen Sie uns. Bleiben Sie zu Hause & verbreiten Sie keine Gerchte. Folgen Sie uns hier fr wichtige Infosl. #Breitscheidplatz

    Please help us....stay at home...do not spread rumors...follow us at this twitter feed for further information.....

    Truck driver is dead...being now reported.....

    PolizeiBerlinEinsatz

    @PolizeiBerlin_E
    Der Beifahrer des LKW, der am #Breitscheidplatz in den Weihnachtsmarkt gefahren ist, verstarb vor Ort.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-19-2016 at 09:08 PM.

  2. #2442
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    Reuters Top News

    @Reuters
    Nine dead after truck plows into crowd at Berlin Christmas market. Follow our live coverage:

    http://reut.rs/2hSy7Ih

  3. #2443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azor View Post
    I think that you are conflating Russia’s official declared nuclear doctrine with controversial statements made by Russian officials, politicians and analysts in recent years.

    Russia’s 2010 doctrine was the first to declare that Russia could respond to conventional aggression with nuclear weapons, although the idea had been gaining ground since 2003 or earlier. Putin is keenly aware of Russia’s conventional weakness and so I do not believe that he ever believed that a NATO-Russia conflict would not escalate to the nuclear level. Russia has used nuclear weapons in its exercises since 2000 and it has increasingly relied upon nuclear deterrence. Tactical nuclear weapons do not negate MAD (initially based upon strategic bombers rather than ballistic missiles); rather, they provide more options, or what McNamara referred to as a “flexible response”.

    Note that during the period of American conventional weakness, the US Army deployed nuclear-armed recoilless rifles and US nuclear doctrine post-New Look/Massive Retaliation provided for degrees of nuclear escalation e.g. tactical first, counterforce first, etc. I feel like a broken record here, but the similarities between how US and Russian/Soviet nuclear doctrine is predicated upon conventional capability should be very apparent.

    According to Mark Galeotti, the concept of “nuclear de-escalation” is not taken seriously by the General Staff or Ministry of Defense.



    Putin does not believe in “nuclear de-escalation”.

    Firstly, there is the issue of the target of the tactical warhead strike. Would Russia detonate a nuclear weapon in the Baltic, Black or North Seas as a demonstration that inflicts no casualties? Would Russia strike at a civilian target such as Warsaw or Bucharest? Would Russia strike at a military target? Putin may be a gambler but he would be insane to think that NATO would tolerate nuclear mass murder in East-Central Europe. As for military targets, how can Putin know how the French, British or American people will respond if their soldiers are among the victims? Each has separate nuclear C2, and each could decide to respond with nuclear weapons. If the victims are all Polish soldiers and the attack is unanswered, the US-led alliance will not survive accusations of “Western betrayal” (for the third time in the Poles’ view).

    Secondly, NATO can hammer Russia with conventional stand-off weapons and destroy the Russian state without resorting to nuclear weapons, and this would first involve attacking Russia’s tactical nuclear assets. Nor is NATO reliant upon stand-off weapons given the stealth and capacity of the B-2s. This would allow NATO to secure the moral high ground and escalation dominance, as Putin will be forced to respond while knowing that NATO is still retaining its tactical and strategic nuclear capabilities and is now on full alert.

    Thirdly, the enormous risks of “nuclear de-escalation”, given that neither the Americans nor Russians ever believed that a limited nuclear war was possible or a conventional-only war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact or Russia, what objective would be worth it?

    I also believe that you are confusing the SS-21 for the SS-26 Iskander…



    Russia has only turned up the heat when it felt that it was pushing back against NATO or the EU, first in Georgia and then in Ukraine. It is not as though Russia has been creating a second Kaliningrad in Transnistria, which would allow Putin to menace Russia’s southeastern flank.



    For someone well-versed in BMD, it surprises me that you mistook the Tochkha for the Iskander, and that you are conflating the GMD and the Patriot.

    The US-Polish agreement under Bush was to install a number of GBIs in Poland of the same variant deployed in Alaska and California. In addition, Poland would receive PAC-3 batteries for air defense, which it considered of far more importance. Basically, the US wanted to create a branch of GMD in Poland to counter ballistic missiles, while Poland wanted an advanced SAM to mainly counter Russian aircraft. The GBI uses ERIS technology from the SDI, whereas PAC-3 uses ERINT. Given the US withdrawal from the ABM Treaty, how could Russia not see the expansion of GMD to Central Europe as an attempt to target Russian ICBMs?



    THAAD also uses ERIS technology but is more intended for SRBMs and IRBMs rather than ICBMs. Obviously, there are developments to fuse GMD, THAAD, Aegis BMD and Patriot into one layered system that can protect against all types of ballistic missiles and even cruise missiles in the future, with the missiles complemented by railguns and lasers. This ties in with your point above about the importance of the various programs' radars (e.g. PAC-3) to other systems.
    BTW...SS22...actually in the 80s.....was the reason for the cruise missile stationing....debates under Reagan.....

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  5. #2445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azor View Post
    I think that you are conflating Russia’s official declared nuclear doctrine with controversial statements made by Russian officials, politicians and analysts in recent years.
    Not conflating the Russia use of tactical nuclear first strike....four major Russian exercises of 40,000 plus tactical nuclear missiles after analysis reflected planned strikes against Copenhagen...Warsaw and Stockholm....

    Tactical nuclear first strike as a "de-escalation move" is in fact published Russian doctrine since 2013....especially mentioned in that doctrine is the striking of a major city....

    REFERENCE BMD....you will have noticed that I tap dance around a n umber of your questions which are actually in the area of classified especially training scenarios...actual TTPs and actual coordination between other allied Ad systems and the BMD....this when your critique for being non specific there is a reason....you mention actually far more that is necessary....
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 12-20-2016 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Quote reduced

  6. #2446
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Not conflating the Russia use of tactical nuclear first strike....four major Russian exercises of 40,000 plus tactical nuclear missiles after analysis reflected planned strikes against Copenhagen...Warsaw and Stockholm....

    Tactical nuclear first strike as a "de-escalation move" is in fact published Russian doctrine since 2013....especially mentioned in that doctrine is the striking of a major city....

    REFERENCE BMD....you will have noticed that I tap dance around a n umber of your questions which are actually in the area of classified especially training scenarios...actual TTPs and actual coordination between other allied Ad systems and the BMD....this when your critique for being non specific there is a reason....you mention actually far more that is necessary....
    I still believe that the entire concept of "nuclear de-escalation" is simply part and parcel of Putin's nuclear saber-rattling, and yes it was around prior to 2013.

    I agree that Russian nuclear provocations are far worse than anything during the Cold War, but then again they were conventionally superior then.

    Putin seems to be a fan of Nixon's "madman" approach...

    Points noted RE: BMD

  7. #2447
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    Moscow
    In joint statemnt, Iran,Russia & Turkey say they wl fight jointly against ISIS & Al-Nusra, separating them from armd oposition groups


    BUT WAIT....Russia and Iran and Iraq have been fighting largely FSA...not IS....so this statement means exactly what....not worth the time it took to post this as it is lies to include those statements by Turkey who claimed that Aleppo was a "red line" repeatedly....

    Iranian FM gives a weird smile after Turkish FM calls for an end to support Shiite militia groups "like Hezbollah" in Syria

    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-20-2016 at 04:18 PM.

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    Palmyra: #ISIS destroying #Assad bulldozer and 23mm autocannon with ATGM strikes at #Tiyas Airbase.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-20-2016 at 04:18 PM.

  9. #2449
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    As with Ukraine, the US no longer involved even in a token fashion in multilateral efforts in Syria.

    Known #Syrian spotter reports over #Russian 100 vehicles, including 37 suspected T-90s heading to #Hmymim presumably from Ropuchas at Tartus

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    An elegy for #Aleppo: the hope of audacity, and why the #Syria war is far from over, by @hxhassan
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...=share_btn_tw#

  11. #2451
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    So, check this: a sectarian militiaman who chopped up a body he's burned is glorified by a sectarian UK-based Iraqi as a symbol of tolerance
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    This is in reference to the Syrian seven year old social media commenter...who has made it out of Aleppo........

    EXCLUSIVE: @AlabedBana's mother talks about the latest situation in #Aleppo 19-12-2016
    https://youtu.be/tVjmfd4NPXc

  13. #2453
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    AFP news agency ‏@AFP 8h
    8 hours ago

    #BREAKING 25,000 evacuated from east Aleppo so far: Red Cross

  14. #2454
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    Russia’s influence has risen but Iran is the real winner in Aleppo
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...=share_btn_tw#

    Palmyra: Interesting that #ISIS used no SVBIEDs at #Tiyas Airbase during the last days.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-20-2016 at 05:13 PM.

  15. #2455
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    Clear shots of Syria'n navy "Tir II" Fast attack craft#(FAC) (Iranian made "IPS 16 /18 class) Likely fitted with iranian Noor AShM (C-802)
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    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-20-2016 at 05:10 PM.

  16. #2456
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    Kyle W. Orton ‏@KyleWOrton

    Latest from the State Department: going to ask #Russia to enforce Sulaymani's travel ban, not sure #Iran is being constructive in #Syria.

    One of Qassem Sulaymani's travel-ban violations was to Moscow to plan out the assaults in #Syria whose ruins he is now photographed among.

    But doubtless, U.S. efforts to have the "UN Security Council" (China and Russia) get serious on int'l law will work
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    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-20-2016 at 05:29 PM.

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    Charles Lister ‏@Charles_Lister
    NEW - Part 1/2 of my analysis on recent events in #Syria:

    “#Aleppo has fallen: But the Conflict is Far from Over”


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...000004#…

    NEW - Part 2/2 looks at potential new opposition mergers &/or splits:

    “Armed Opposition Seeks to Redefine Itself”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...000004#…

  18. #2458
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    It’s concerning when a U.S. Congress member uses *anti-American* conspiracy sites to publicize her views.

    Look at the “related articles”!
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    Tulsi Gabbard
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    .@neeratanden should support my bill to stop US giving money/arms to groups allied w/al-Qaeda/ISIS. This will end Syrian humanitarian crisis


    Charles Lister ‏@Charles_Lister
    Charles Lister Retweeted Tulsi Gabbard
    If you don’t understand the details, don’t comment on the subject.

  20. #2460
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    Kyle W. Orton ‏@KyleWOrton Dec 18
    #IS biography of its deceased #2 makes clear how extensive and active the jihadi networks were in Saddam's Iraq.


    The Islamic State’s Official Biography of the Caliph’s#Deputy

    By#Kyle Orton#(@KyleWOrton) on December 18, 2016

    https://kyleorton1991.wordpress.com/...aliphs-deputy/

    Really needs to be reread....a number of times

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