China's Far West provinces (inc. Tibet)

[Ray]

Just speculating!

Tibet maybe a lost cause in the overall context and none may actually care, but the uprising does help to divert China's attention and effort to other issues and manpower from sectors where the manpower was being used for its economic enhancement.

The PLA is known to contribute for economic efforts.

China will have to showcase for the Tibetan that they care for the Tibetans and so more economic sops will have to be diverted to them as also to all the minority areas of China. Such efforts may have to be focussed for the individual and not for national development which is slow to affect the people for them to realise the effort!

Possible?

[marct]

Hi Ray,

China will have to showcase for the Tibetan that they care for the Tibetans and so more economic sops will have to be diverted to them as also to all the minority areas of China. Such efforts may have to be focussed for the individual and not for national development which is slow to affect the people for them to realise the effort!

Possible?

Maybe, but I think it's unlikely. They already have enough tensions running around what with the Shanghai vs. Beijing tug of war and the Uigher separatists. From what little seems to be coming out, I suspect they will use a terror campaign - it won't be the first time they have done that to the "sub-human barbarians" (i.e. non-Han).

[marct]

An interesting roundup of blogger coverage including some material on the Chinese media is available here.

[tequila]

Ray: China has targeted Xinjiang and Tibet for massive economic development for decades. This went into overdrive especially in the past 8 years or so, when development of "interior" provinces became a major priority. Per capita, Tibet receives more subsidies from the central government than any other province. Infrastructure and construction investment in the TAR and Qinghai is at roughly 2x the level as in southeastern provinces. It is this massive government spending that has led to the enormous increase in urbanization in Tibet in the past decade, as well as the correspondingly huge increase in the Han population.

Of course this spending has to be seen in the context of China's program of "modernization" of the TAR and the western regions, where modernization brings both economic development but also greater control from the center. As with most "modernization" programs, the indigenous population is marginalized as it doesn't possess the requisite social or economic skills necessary to compete.

[marct]

I just got asked to sign a petition in support of Tibet that is circulating on the 'Net. Over 1.4 million signatures in 7 days, and growing. The wording is interesting, especially the use of terms like "stability".

[Ray]

tequila,

It is in China's strategic interest to develop Tibet and Xinjiang.

It may also interest all that Urumchi has a Han population that is more than the Uighurs, who are the locals.

The Chinese have not given up their claims on Outer Mongolia or Vladivostok and its neighbourhood.

Their mentality is expansionist, to quote Communist terminology.

Economic development alone does not satiate sub nationalism or religious freedom. The stomach must also have an equal satisfaction as the mind. Crass commercialism alone is not happiness.

Unlike other religions, Tibetan Buddhism is very ingraned in the Tibetan mind. Ridiculous as it may seem,but they do consider the Dalai Lama as a God. Insult to the Dalai Lama is as dangerous as insulting God.

The Tibetans having lived a rough life in the harsh area of Tibet are people who know struggle is a part of existence and they are not soft in mind and soul as others,

Therefore, the issue is not that simple for solution.

The Chinese may claim that it is a conspiracy of the US, India and the West instigating the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans, but the truth is that they require no instigation! They sincerely are serious about the issue!

[tequila]

I agree with most of what you said, except about the PRC's supposed claims to Vladivostok and Outer Mongolia. I'd like to see official PRC government statements about that one - I happen to know that the PRC has signed treaties resolving all territorial claim issues with Mongolia, the latest I believe in 1994.

Regarding Tibet, unfortunately I don't think it's going to matter. China views Tibet as a defining issue of national sovereignty without the complications of Taiwan, and there is absolutely no national desire to compromise on the issue. Like India and Kashmir, this one will likely be unresolved for decades to come.

[Ray]

Ray: China has targeted Xinjiang and Tibet for massive economic development for decades. This went into overdrive especially in the past 8 years or so, when development of "interior" provinces became a major priority. Per capita, Tibet receives more subsidies from the central government than any other province. Infrastructure and construction investment in the TAR and Qinghai is at roughly 2x the level as in southeastern provinces. It is this massive government spending that has led to the enormous increase in urbanization in Tibet in the past decade, as well as the correspondingly huge increase in the Han population.

Of course this spending has to be seen in the context of China's program of "modernization" of the TAR and the western regions, where modernization brings both economic development but also greater control from the center. As with most "modernization" programs, the indigenous population is marginalized as it doesn't possess the requisite social or economic skills necessary to compete.

It is an interesting point that you raise about the infrastructure development in Tibet and the huge finances funnelled in for the same.

Since as you say the Tibetans do not have the social or economic skills, it obviously means that the financial spinoff that is being invested in the projects is not going to the Tibetans, but to others.

Therefore, such a situation does bring in heartburns, even if it is irrational.

People, who as a community, are looked as controlling the economy and having the wealth, normally are not very well liked by those who think that they are not getting a share of the pie.

Maybe, that could be the feeling that the Tibetan harbour, notwithstanding the progress done to them by China.

I would also wonder as to how the same Tibetan stock who are socially and economically backward are doing quite well for themselves outside Tibet. This makes one wonder if the Chinese are really doing much to bring emancipation to the Tibetans in Tibet.

After all, the Tibetans outside Tibet and those within Tibet are from the same stock and with the same skills!

[tequila]

After all, the Tibetans outside Tibet and those within Tibet are from the same stock and with the same skills!

The exile community, especially those who fled w/the Dalai Lama in 1959, obviously contains a disproportionate number from the landowning and educated classes targeted by the Communists, especially during the Cultural Revolution and post-invasion periods. I'd say on average they had quite a higher degree of social and economic capital than the average Tibetan peasant or nomad, especially since Tibetan society was so stratified in pre-invasion times.

Obviously as well a Chinese-directed technology or infrastructure project will often require spoken or written literacy in Mandarin Chinese, a key stumbling block for any linguistic minority given the difficulty of the language and the inherently colonial imposition of having to learn the occupiers' language in order to gain employment.

[Ray]

[QUOTE]

The exile community, especially those who fled w/the Dalai Lama in 1959, obviously contains a disproportionate number from the landowning and educated classes targeted by the Communists, especially during the Cultural Revolution and post-invasion periods. I'd say on average they had quite a higher degree of social and economic capital than the average Tibetan peasant or nomad, especially since Tibetan society was so stratified in pre-invasion times.

What is the authenticity to this contention?

The Tibetan who sell woollen clothes every winter in Indian cities do not give the impression that they are educated or the landed class.

Obviously as well a Chinese-directed technology or infrastructure project will often require spoken or written literacy in Mandarin Chinese, a key stumbling block for any linguistic minority given the difficulty of the language and the inherently colonial imposition of having to learn the occupiers' language in order to gain employment.

In other words, the Tibetans have not benefited!