Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Insurgency & COIN in Greece (in WW2 and after)

  1. #1
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    24

    Default Insurgency & COIN in Greece (in WW2 and after)

    I'm looking to write a 25-30 page paper on British action in Greece between October 1944 and January 1945, during which they fought the leading (and communist controlled, of course) Greek resistance force, the ELAS. I've found in the University library what seems to be a narrative of the 23rd Armoured Brigade (They were known as Monty's Foxhounds in North Africa), and I'm going to check it out first thing Monday. I'm interested in looking at how forces that were pretty much used to perfect limited war (the north africa desert campaigns) adapt to messy, political, civilian-rich, primarily urban (Athens) struggle.
    Does anyone have any recommendations for books on this subject, or the Greek Civil War in general?

  2. #2
    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Seattle, Wa
    Posts
    206

    Default

    The book, Guerrilla, by Charles W. Thayer discusses the Greek Civil War in general terms.

  3. #3
    Council Member TROUFION's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    212

    Default War in the Shadows

    Robert Asprey has a summary of the Greek Civil War in his book War in The Shadows.

  4. #4
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hilo, HI
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Red Acropolis, Black Terror, The Greek Civil War and the Origins of Soviet-American Rivalry 1943-1949, by Andre Gerolymatos, Basic Books, 2004. Available from Amazon...This is a useful work--possibly even the definitive account...

    Cheers,
    Mike.
    Last edited by Mike in Hilo; 03-26-2007 at 06:40 AM.

  5. #5
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    47

    Default

    You might read the Marine Corps' The Guerrilla and How to Fight Him. It has a chapter on Greece, titled "Winning in the Mountains-Greece" by Col. J.C. Murry. The manual is FMFRP 12-25. Also, Hold the Balkans! could be valuable. It as a book concerning German antiguerrilla operations in the Balkans from 1941-1944.

  6. #6
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default

    If you're on a budget, my favorite is www.newspaperarchive.com.

    Great downloads, some converted pictures and tons of history.

    Good Luck !

  7. #7
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    12,345

    Default Hazy Memory

    I do recall contemporary newsreel of the street fighting in Athens, when the tiny British force was surrounded and fought desperately. I am sure the narrator commented fighting Germans in Italy and flown to Athens to liberate an Allied city to find themselves fighting for their lives. Less certainly I think the initial troops were paratroopers.

    There ia short succint chapter on the Greek Civil War in 'Intervention and Revolution by Richard J. Barnet (pub. 1972), which mentions 75,000 British troops being deployed. The footnotes refer to Edgar O'Ballance's 'The Greek Civil War' (pub. NY 1966), who was an ex-British Army officer.

    Oddly Field Marshal Michael Carver's book 'Britains Army in the 20th Century' does not mention this! Scanned a few books here, nothing.

    davidbfpo

  8. #8
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    24

    Default

    I believe there was an initial glider-deployed force that was later reinforced. Thanks for the recommendations and keep them coming.

    Any good general works on British armored units in N. Africa?

  9. #9
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    12,345

    Default Last Post

    Field Marshal Michael Carver's book 'Britain's Army in the 20th Century, is a very general history, but was a prolific author on the desert war, where he served and ended as a brigadier before Italy. He wrote: El Alamein ('62), Tobruk ('64), Dilemmas of the Desert War ('86) and less certain on the desert The Apostles of Mobility ('79).

    I am sure there are general histories, but not my subject nor an my bookshelves.

    Of subject try 'With the Jocks: A Soldier's Stuggle for Europe 1944-45' by Peter White (pub 2001). Best frontline account of the British Army in NW Europe I've read.

    Good night.

    Davidbfpo

  10. #10
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    47

    Default

    For British action in North Africa, Brazen Chariots is always the classic. Written by Maj. Crisp, it details approximately 30 days of action against Rommel in the desert.

  11. #11
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default Barrie Pitt and Cornelli Barnett

    My favorites on North Africa: Barrie Pitt's 3 Volume Series: The Crucible of War and Correlli Barnett The Desert Generals

    There are many others of course.

    Best

    Tom

  12. #12
    Council Member wm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    On the Lunatic Fringe
    Posts
    1,237

    Default The UK Orbat in Greece

    From a great website (that no longer functions) http://www.regiments.org/wars/20ww2/greece43.htm

    The senior formation HQ was the 4th Infantry Division (10, 12, 28 Bde) and 11Ind Inf Bde.

    1944 Dec. 2-
    1945 Jan. 15 Athens Cav: DG1
    Inf: 2/F7 2/F8 2/F13 2/F16 2/F37 1:4/F37 2:4/F37 5/F37 6/F42 ?/F44 1/F50 16/F68 2/F71 1/L16 4/Para 5/Para 6/Para


    1944 Sep. 16-
    1945 Jan. 15 Greece 1944-45 Cav: DG1 4/RTR 50/RTR 4Recce
    Inf: 2/F5 F7 F8 6/F10 F13 F16 2:5/F17 1:6/F31 2/F32 1/F35 F37 F42 F44 5/F45 F50 2:4/F51 F60 6/F65 F68 F71 2/F79 L16 Para SAS Cdo9(CdoAssn) RSR
    Cav: 21 Engr: BySM
    Inf: 9/4 4/6 MG/6 2/11 1/GR2 2/GR7 1/GR9
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:04 PM. Reason: Update re link

  13. #13
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    24

    Default

    I'm putting together the paper this weekend. I'm not sure how it'll turn out, but should it come out well I might put it up here for yays and nays. Thanks for the help.

  14. #14
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    24

    Default

    In retrospect, the paper was kind of thrown together as a result of last-minute deadlines and related pressures. But I may try to give it a rewrite sometime this summer, should I get a decent block of spare time.

  15. #15
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,098

    Default Case Study in Guerrilla Warfare: Greece During WWII

    SORO, 1961: Case Study in Guerrilla Warfare: Greece During World War II
    ....The Special Operations Research Office is convinced that this case study of guerrilla warfare, utilizing the example of Greece during World War II, holds many lessons for the 1960's, from both a military and political standpoint. While many of the lessons may be known to a few United States experts, it is also true that not all persons who will be intimately concerned with guerrilla warfare in the near future have this expert knowledge at, their fingertips. In this sense, this study should prove most useful to a variety of military and non-military audiences.

    For the policy maker, this study represents a detailed and comprehensive review of the major aspects of a guerrilla campaign, including its political implications and long-range effects. For the military planner, the study indicates, not only many of the problems inherent in such a campaign-of selection and training of men, of logistics and communication, for example, but also some possible solutions. For persons who may some day he in the same position as that handful of Allied men in Greece during World War II, the study considers many aspects of tactical operations and affords a glimpse of the complexities in working relationships between individuals and groups with diverse backgrounds and aspirations. For those responsible for countering guerrilla operations in the future, the record of the German performance against the Greek guerrillas gives insight into the reasons for their tactical success in antiguerrilla combat and their simultaneous failure to eradicate the guerrilla movement.....

  16. #16
    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,189

    Default German antiguerrilla operations in the Balkans (1941-1944)

    I didn't read it, just found it:

    http://www.farposst.ru/2012/01/09/DA...941_1944_.html

    Department of the Army, Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1954, 8 MB, 100 pages

    As I understand it, there's no copyright problem with this.

    It might be interesting to contrast it with a report from the Greek Civil War ~1948/49.

  17. #17
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default Dapam 20-243

    I think this link in English may be easier on our viewers than the Russian site provided
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  18. #18
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    12,345

    Default UK air force aid

    Came across this surprise due to the cited length of deployment:
    1944 to 1949, Greek Civil War; In a 5 year operation the RAF deployed approximately 15 squadrons/detachments and Hurricanes, Spitfires, Beaufighters, Wellingtons, Boston’s, Mosquito’s, Dakotas and Walrus. The FAA deployed a detachment of Sea Otters.
    Alas no pointers to sources:http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2012/0...tried-to-kill/
    davidbfpo

  19. #19
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    12,345

    Default British perfidy in Greece: a story worth remembering

    A long Open Democracy article on the opening of the Greek Civil War, or what outsiders know as that; the authors write a very different explanation and are from impartial IMHO:https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-eu...th-remembering

    The sub-title gives a glimpse:
    It was the day, seventy years ago this Tuesday, when the British Army at war with Germany switched their allegiance, opening fire upon – and arming Greek collaborators with the Nazis to fire upon – a civilian crowd in Syntagma Square.
    There is a shorter version, which has aroused over seven hundred comments; it appears that this episode in Greece's history is still disputed:http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-dirty-secret

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War
    davidbfpo

  20. #20
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    12,345

    Default Moderator at work

    This thread was called Greece in WW2 (merged thread) and is now Insurgency & COIN in Greece (in WW2 and after).

    I have a vague memory the subject appears elsewhere, maybe in another thread in this arena, but a search failed to locate it / them.
    davidbfpo

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •