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Thread: Insurgency & COIN in Greece (in WW2 and after)

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  1. #1
    Council Member wm's Avatar
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    Default The UK Orbat in Greece

    From a great website (that no longer functions) http://www.regiments.org/wars/20ww2/greece43.htm

    The senior formation HQ was the 4th Infantry Division (10, 12, 28 Bde) and 11Ind Inf Bde.

    1944 Dec. 2-
    1945 Jan. 15 Athens Cav: DG1
    Inf: 2/F7 2/F8 2/F13 2/F16 2/F37 1:4/F37 2:4/F37 5/F37 6/F42 ?/F44 1/F50 16/F68 2/F71 1/L16 4/Para 5/Para 6/Para


    1944 Sep. 16-
    1945 Jan. 15 Greece 1944-45 Cav: DG1 4/RTR 50/RTR 4Recce
    Inf: 2/F5 F7 F8 6/F10 F13 F16 2:5/F17 1:6/F31 2/F32 1/F35 F37 F42 F44 5/F45 F50 2:4/F51 F60 6/F65 F68 F71 2/F79 L16 Para SAS Cdo9(CdoAssn) RSR
    Cav: 21 Engr: BySM
    Inf: 9/4 4/6 MG/6 2/11 1/GR2 2/GR7 1/GR9
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-21-2018 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Update re link

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    Default

    I'm putting together the paper this weekend. I'm not sure how it'll turn out, but should it come out well I might put it up here for yays and nays. Thanks for the help.

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    Default

    In retrospect, the paper was kind of thrown together as a result of last-minute deadlines and related pressures. But I may try to give it a rewrite sometime this summer, should I get a decent block of spare time.

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default UK air force aid

    Came across this surprise due to the cited length of deployment:
    1944 to 1949, Greek Civil War; In a 5 year operation the RAF deployed approximately 15 squadrons/detachments and Hurricanes, Spitfires, Beaufighters, Wellingtons, Boston’s, Mosquito’s, Dakotas and Walrus. The FAA deployed a detachment of Sea Otters.
    Alas no pointers to sources:http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2012/0...tried-to-kill/
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default British perfidy in Greece: a story worth remembering

    A long Open Democracy article on the opening of the Greek Civil War, or what outsiders know as that; the authors write a very different explanation and are from impartial IMHO:https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-eu...th-remembering

    The sub-title gives a glimpse:
    It was the day, seventy years ago this Tuesday, when the British Army at war with Germany switched their allegiance, opening fire upon – and arming Greek collaborators with the Nazis to fire upon – a civilian crowd in Syntagma Square.
    There is a shorter version, which has aroused over seven hundred comments; it appears that this episode in Greece's history is still disputed:http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-dirty-secret

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Moderator at work

    This thread was called Greece in WW2 (merged thread) and is now Insurgency & COIN in Greece (in WW2 and after).

    I have a vague memory the subject appears elsewhere, maybe in another thread in this arena, but a search failed to locate it / them.
    davidbfpo

  7. #7
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Within a broader critical review of COIN are these paragraphs on the Greek Civil War, a rare event IMHO:
    One of the host nation victories to have had little exposure is the Greek Civil War (1946-49). The orthodoxy among most Anglo-American historians is that the only reason the Greek armed forces were successful against a Communist insurgency was purely because of training and material assistance provided by the US and Britain. While it is true that financial and material aid under the Marshall Plan proved vital to defeating the Communist insurgency, the Greek armed forces learned while fighting and ultimately developed an indigenous strategy for victory. Indeed, on many occasions, advice provided by the Americans and British was politely disregarded because it bore little relation to Greek realities. Between 1943 and 1949, Greek Communists made three attempts to take power, and what is generally referred to as the ‘Greek Civil War’ comprised the third round between 1946-1949. The first and second bids were prevented mainly because of British intervention, but the third round was characterised by the steady development of the host nation’s capability. After the Second World War, most of the Greek forces had to be rebuilt. The greatest obstacle facing the Greek National Army (GNA) initially was a chronic lack of manpower. By mid-1947, the GNA had 115,000 personnel, but these were spread very thinly throughout Greece. As a consequence, it had difficulty exploiting battles and holding territory gained.
    In the meantime, the Communist insurgency was morphing into a regular army (DSE) after its senior leadership concluded that guerrilla tactics were not working. However, the Communists’ desire to create a regular army sowed the seeds of their ultimate downfall. A regular army called for a large support infrastructure and logistics footprint, and although manpower was always a significant constraint on the GNA’s ability to operate, recruitment was a far more serious problem for the DSE. Even at its height in April 1948, the DSE’s strength was no more than 26,000. Voluntary recruitment gave way to forcible recruitment. Women and children were not spared from frontline duty, and this proved to be a public relations disaster for the Communists. So, while the Communists benefitted from sympathetic northern neighbours (Albania, Yugoslavia and Bulgaria), through which a steady stream of Soviet weaponry flowed, they were never able to replace the losses they increasingly sustained.
    By 1948, the government’s forces totalled 168,000 personnel, with equipment supplied by Britain and the United States. The tide had turned, both militarily and economically, for the Greek state, but it is important to acknowledge that success against the DSE from 1948 onwards was also due to the GNA’s own conceptual work. Prior to this point, planning and execution of operations largely reflected Anglo-American doctrine, with a focus on traditional schemes of manoeuvre. From the beginning of 1948, the GNA started to apply what would be recognised today as a ‘clear, hold, build’ strategy throughout the country, starting in the south of Greece. The first step involved dismantling the Communist ‘eyes and ears’, followed by the destruction or capture of Communist forces. The final function included robust policing, to prevent the regrowth of Communist infrastructure, and the re-education of DSE prisoners and their eventual reintroduction to Greek society. This strategy was underpinned by Marshall aid totalling $273.2 million during the last year of the conflict, but the strategy itself was indigenous in conception.
    British and American training missions remained in Greece for several years after the recognised end of the Civil War as an added insurance policy, but the Communists concluded that they could not match a reformed and re-energised Greek Army. The Greek government had taken ownership of the anti-Communist effort, and succeeded in the long-term.

    Plus two references and the link:http://defenceindepth.co/2015/11/18/...on-of-victory/
    davidbfpo

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