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Thread: The Trump impact on US policy

  1. #241
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    Trump team: Too early for timing on U.S. embassy move to Jerusalem
    http://reut.rs/2hWD2qU

    THIS will inherently whip lash the entire ME......and it will destroy the two state concept that is needed to finally resolved the Palestine question which is at the heart of all the ME issues....and has been since 1945....

    SO how is exactly the Trump son-in-law suppose to resolve the Palestinian Israeli dispute....?????

    BUT WAIT...Hezbollah has sworn it will march into Jerusalem........
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-16-2016 at 05:13 PM.

  2. #242
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    'Russia Today is advancing a narrative that Russia's gov't is fundamentally trustworthy, US is fundamentally untrustworthy'
    http://n.pr/2h8GMpu

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Trump team: Too early for timing on U.S. embassy move to Jerusalem
    http://reut.rs/2hWD2qU

    THIS will inherently whip lash the entire ME......and it will destroy the two state concept that is needed to finally resolved the Palestine question which is at the heart of all the ME issues....and has been since 1945....

    SO how is exactly the Trump son-in-law suppose to resolve the Palestinian Israeli dispute....?????

    BUT WAIT...Hezbollah has sworn it will march into Jerusalem........
    It's a good thing Trump won't need any Arab allies to defeat #ISIS & AQ.

    Nominating an Amb to Israel who advocates a 1-state solution & calls liberal Jews Kapos...yeah, that Trump peace process is gonna move FAST!

    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-16-2016 at 05:30 PM.

  4. #244
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    Holy sh**... This is what Haaretz says about Trump's nominee for Ambassador to Israel...
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  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Azor...being fired "for cause" is a serve term in the civil service world for a total failure in your position.....

    HERE is what you are absolutely missing which is normal for not having ever worked in the intel world especially the HUMINT world....

    The 17 intel agencies and the ODNI AND the FBI did not disagree in a single line of the CIA report that in fact the Russian hacking had occurred and who it was against....

    IF you had spent time in such intel major meetings then you will have realized that each of the 17 agencies approach their analysis from their own "charter" meaning what they were created for....

    In the case of the FBI...they will never fully agree with what the CIA ever states as the FBI collects in order to prove solid evidence for a conviction in a court of law......

    CIA...and DIA are in the business of "indicators"...and when the "indicators" get tighter and tighter then they attempt to fathom the WHY....

    THESE "indicators" are funneled into an Indications and Warning Team that then briefs the National Command Authority that means Trump on potential critical events he needs to especially be aware of since he will have to make decisions on those 'indicators".....

    ODNI...BTW the ODNI does not have a true analysis function of "indicators"...his job and Clapper over stepped that ODNI charter....his job is to manage the movement of analysis work towards a conclusion and to ensure all 17 agencies are supporting that end goal...

    WHAT bothers me intensively is the simple fact that the FBI pulled literally all manpower off the hacking issue in order to go through 30,000 emails which in the end were duplicates and or private....TAKING critical analysis personnel away from the FBI investigation of those Trump individuals who had blatant contacts to Russians and the Russian hacking....

    LASTLY and again I repeat all 17 agencies agreed that there was an active measures Russian hacking operation underway in the US directed against the DNC....Clinton personally....and the Democratic Congress candidates....AND nothing directed against Trump.....

    WHERE they differ is in the Russian intent....

    WHAT you have not heard and are seen written in the US MSM is the simple fact that the CIA stated "with near certainly that Putin was personally involved"....WHY did they go out on that limb??????

    BECAUSE UK and German intel services provided input from their field agents or as some would call them "spies" who provided concrete evidence...in the form of electronic data and or personal accessment.

    In this business one cannot get more concrete than that......

    AND then we have an idiot calling out the CIA whose field agents as well as the field agents of allied countries who put their lives on the line and at great risk to provide information necessary for decisions....

    REMEMBER this is the same Trump we are talking about that avoided the VN war draft FOUR TIMES by claiming a "bone spur" but when asked about it during the campaign he stated...QUOTE..."I am not sure which foot" and my "hardest battle was fighting off the women"....

    WHILE others fought and died........so "he could fight off the women"......

    BUT WAIT...........this firms things up even more......

    Federal agency in charge of certifying voting machines hacked by Russian-speaking hacker: report
    http://hill.cm/3diHIVV

    Russian hackers seized control of the Pentagon's unclassified email system in 2015
    http://read.bi/2gSr5ql
    Azor....if one reads between the lines here the ODNI after the Trump campaign and Trump blasted and questioned the integrity of the CIA will now only present to the Gang of Eight and no one else....

    Notice how the single Congressman on the transition team is pushing to fully understand what is ongoing so he can then inform Trump WHO still is not accepting the Russian activity.....


    U.S. intelligence agencies feuding with Republicans over Russian hacking
    http://reut.rs/2hWY7lf

    Republican members of Congress are complaining that U.S. intelligence agencies are refusing to brief them widely on a classified CIA report that concluded Russia hacked Democratic Party data in an effort to help Donald Trump win the presidency.

    The Republicans said Director of National Intelligence James Clapper has refused their requests for full briefings of Congress' two intelligence committees. U.S. government officials said the leaders of Congress and the chairmen of the two intelligence committees, known as the "Gang of Eight," have been briefed on the CIA's conclusion.

    Nevertheless, Representative Devin Nunes, the California Republican who chairs the House Intelligence Committee and is a member of President-elect Trump's transition team, as well as the Gang of Eight, has called for a briefing for his entire committee on the CIA assessment, which the Washington Post reported on last week.

    "The committee is vigorously looking into reports of cyber-attacks during the election campaign, and in particular we want to clarify press reports that the CIA has a new assessment that it has not shared with us," Nunes said.Representative Ron Johnson, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, said his panel also has asked for a briefing but the CIA refused.

    "It is disappointing that the CIA would provide information on this issue to the Washington Post and NBC but will not provide information to elected members of Congress," Johnson said in a statement on Friday.

    Three U.S. government sources, who all asked for anonymity to discuss classified information, told Reuters that the while the full congressional committees have not been briefed, the congressional leadership has, which is the standard procedure for briefing Congress on sensitive intelligence.

    The Office of the Director of National Intelligence said in a statement that because President Barack Obama last week ordered the intelligence community to conduct a full-scale "review of foreign efforts to influence recent presidential elections – from 2008 to the present," the agencies would not comment further until the study is completed.

    BRIEFING TO FOLLOW

    ODNI, which oversees all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, said that when the review is complete, the U.S. intelligence community "stands ready to brief Congress."

    The office said it also would make#the study "available to the public consistent with protecting intelligence sources and methods."

    The CIA based its conclusion about Russia hacking to influence the election not on irrefutable evidence but largely on its analysis of the fact that the Russians hacked both political parties while only publicizing information damaging to Democrats and their presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton, said a fourth U.S. official familiar with the agency's work.T

    The FBI, which has responsibility for counterintelligence investigations inside the United States, did not endorse the CIA's finding because it does not meet the standards of evidence necessary to win a conviction in a U.S. court or identify individuals whose hacking violated American law, the fourth official said."The CIA's case would never hold up in court but it is almost impossible to reach a different conclusion than the agency did based on the selective nature of what the Russians did and did not choose to publicize," the official said.

    ODNI has not endorsed the CIA's conclusion but does not dispute it. Two sources said there was "no daylight" between ODNI and CIA on the issue. An ODNI spokesman said the agency would not comment beyond its official statement.

    The debate over Russian hacking, which three officials said has continued after Election Day and extends beyond the election to multiple U.S. government agencies, as well as to private firms and individuals, also is opening a rift between Trump and some Republican members of Congress.

    The president-elect continues to dismiss the intelligence agencies' conclusion that Russian President Vladimir Putin directed the hacking of this year's election but Republicans such as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Senator John McCain, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, are calling for a full investigation.

  6. #246
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    Note the need of the Chmn of Senate Intel Cmte @SenatorBurr to profess respect for Intel community in announcing probe of #RussiaHacking
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    Turns out this new viral video site is part of Russian government-funded Russian Today, although you'd never tell by looking:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro...-russian-govt#

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    Default To Outlaw 09 RE: Trump

    The US Response to Russian Cyberwarfare

    It is astounding that the White House and Intelligence Community would not count on Russia interfering in the primaries and election.

    Snowden revealed that the United States has the best SIGINT and cyberwarfare capabilities in the world, and this was kept secret from the public, who believed for many years that China and Russia were superior in these areas. There is a great deal of discussion on how the DOD and various service branches are creating cyberwarfare units to “catch up” to their opposite numbers in Russia and China, but this discussion misses the point that it was the NSA developing the capabilities. The creation of Cyber Command at the NSA’s headquarters had more to do with legal and political issues than ones of capability.

    As for Russian disinformation, it is actually difficult to counter. Putin did not create the machine in order to convince Westerners of anything, which he knew would fail. Instead of taking on the role of a prosecutor, who has to prove a case to the audience, Putin took on the role of defense counsel, where his only task was to create doubt. Russia issues a swarm of positive claims that independently are unbelievable, but in aggregate, and in concert with its negative claims, succeed in creating doubt. Putin isn’t seeking to influence elites in the West. He is seeking to influence the man at a bar or dinner table, having a casual conversation with friends.

    Example 1: “Don’t you believe that Russia invaded Ukraine?”  “Yeah, but there are Russians there and…it’s complicated…I just don’t know…we should just stay out of it…”

    Example 2: “Not all Syrian rebels are terrorists, you know that right?”  “I know, but it seems that way sometimes…it’s complicated…I just don’t know…we should just stay out of it…”

    Putin places the burden of proof on Obama, who would rather “just stay out” of foreign crises if possible. In today’s world of Tweets, how can Obama possible explain the nuances of the Syrian Civil War to the American public? He can either take a pro-Assad or anti-Assad position, and Trump has chosen the former. For the latter, Obama would have to declare that Iran has invaded Syria, is attempting to conquer it and that Iranian aggression, including by their client Assad, must be defeated.

    But then this narrative if followed would nullify the JCPOA and lead to a US war with Syria, Iran, Iraq and possibly Russia, with additional insurgencies in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. So Obama has no counter.

    The Intelligence Community on Russian Theft and Disclosure of DNC Materials

    Again, I believe that the Russians were responsible for the WikiLeaks releases of DNC materials. I have always believed that Snowden, Assange and Manning are Russian agents, because the Russians are probably the best at developing assets whereas the West has to typically wait for defectors to approach.

    I agree with the conclusions of Mark Galeotti and Paul Gregory on Russia’s interference during the election.

    I also believe that the CIA’s conclusion about Russian intentions, leaked to the press by an anonymous official, was intended to insinuate that Trump was an illegitimate president. CIA Director Brennan has stated that he wants to serve under Hillary Clinton, and both Deputy Directors are Democratic operatives with no intelligence or defense experience prior to appointment by Obama.

    Also note the list of former intelligence officials who have publicly endorsed Hillary Clinton, and this list does not even include former NSC or DHS officials:

    • David Shedd (DIA)
    • John Negroponte (ODNI)
    • Michael Leiter (ODNI)
    • Matt Olsen (ODNI)
    • Michael Hayden (NSA)


    CIA alone:

    • David Petraeus (ex-Director)
    • Michael Morell (ex-Director)
    • Michael Hayden (ex-Director)
    • Robert Gates (ex-Director)
    • Mike Baker (officer)
    • Evan McMullin (officer)


    Quite an unbiased group of professionals, wouldn't you say? Arguably, the WikiLeaks release of the DNC e-mails was intended to influence the primary and give Sanders a chance.

    As with Brexit, the losing side is executing “Project Fear” and attempting to overturn Trump’s election. First, there were accusations that the Russians manipulated the polling machines, which were baseless. Second, there were accusations that Russia swung the election for Trump by manipulating public opinion. Third, Comey was accused of acting for Trump by issuing his letters to Congress. Fourth, there are attempts to change the Electors’ votes so as to trigger a constitutional crisis. Notice that everyone is blamed but Hillary.

    Trump’s Response to the CIA’s “Conclusion”

    Trump’s response was correct. He knew that the CIA was playing politics. He also knew that Americans would not understand the nuance of: “Yes, the Russians interfered. No, they didn’t necessarily want me elected. No, they weren’t responsible for my win”. Clinton’s insinuation that Trump is a Russian agent, began months ago, is too toxic for Trump to even approach.

    We know that intelligence on Operation Inherent Resolve was manipulated to show a higher level of success against Daesh than in actuality. In addition, the CIA and DOD estimates of Daesh's fighting strength in 2014 and 2015 were ridiculously low (~10X lower than Peshmerga estimates). Of course, it wouldn't do for Obama's hasty exit from Iraq to have helped create a larger and worse version of Al Qaeda, now would it? To date, the Coalition has killed more Daesh fighters than originally estimated...

    As with Brexit, you are propagating "Project Fear". Do you remember our tête-à-tête over Brexit? If you do, then you should know that I'm not going to roll over for this one either.

    You thought that Hillary would give you the more muscular foreign policy you wanted: arms to Ukraine, increased information/intelligence operations against Russia, increased sanctions on Russia, a no-fly and perhaps no-drive zone in Syria, etc. I know you didn't get what you wanted, but it's not worth a constitutional crisis over.

    When Obama doesn't do as you like, well, he's throwing the poor Ukrainians and Syrians under the bus, he's in league with Putin and Khamenei to massacre Sunni Arabs, etc.

    You can continue to swarm with posts and links, but it doesn't change the fact that Trump won, and Russia's interference didn't change the outcome of the election. It didn't. Not by any measure of electoral chances. If you want to blame someone, blame Comey, or better yet, Hillary herself.

    We'll see what Trump does. He might surprise you yet and let the Russians and Iranians have it. If he does, and he earns your absentee ballot, you'll have a lot of deleting to do.
    Last edited by Azor; 12-16-2016 at 10:33 PM.

  9. #249
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    Azor,

    You correctly described Russia's influence operations focusing on creating doubt, and I agree, as does every professional intelligence analysis without a political axe to grind that their hacking didn't change the outcome of the election. Furthermore, you are probably correct their goal is to divide further politically by calling into question the legitimacy of the election. Finally, Obama and Clinton knew about the allegations of Russia's hacking long before Trump was authorized to see intelligence reports, yet there were no complaints from the left when Clinton was ahead. We are increasingly vulnerable as a nation with the level of division between the left and the right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    Azor,

    You correctly described Russia's influence operations focusing on creating doubt, and I agree, as does every professional intelligence analysis without a political axe to grind that their hacking didn't change the outcome of the election. Furthermore, you are probably correct their goal is to divide further politically by calling into question the legitimacy of the election. Finally, Obama and Clinton knew about the allegations of Russia's hacking long before Trump was authorized to see intelligence reports, yet there were no complaints from the left when Clinton was ahead. We are increasingly vulnerable as a nation with the level of division between the left and the right.
    Thank you for your words, Bill.

    Placing yourself in the center is an exhausting proposition when both sides want to crush you.

    I never subscribed to the view that Hillary Clinton was a criminal or responsible for Benghazi (what then of Schultz and Albright?), but I do believe that she was dishonest, unethical and arrogant. Remember that Hillary decried a "vast right-wing conspiracy" against her in 1998, so only arrogance can explain why she did not take steps 13 years later to prevent that relentless foe from finding chinks in her armor.

    As for the FBI investigation, there were only two choices for Hillary in June/July: criminality or incompetence, of which Comey chose the latter. She was not unlike a criminal who pleads not guilty by reason of insanity, but then wants out of the psychiatric unit the next day.

    I find the insinuations that Trump is a Russian agent equally ridiculous. Hillary wanted to attract the hawks from the Republican Party, and used Russia as a wedge issue, and yet while she was successful with the elite, the rank-and-file were not convinced that the United States should be more assertive in either Ukraine or Syria. Sanders' supporters were equally isolationist if not more so...

    If you look at the timing of the major WikiLeaks release in July, it was intended to influence the Democratic primary and give Sanders a chance, rather than help Trump edge out Clinton.

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    If you look at the timing of the major WikiLeaks release in July, it was intended to influence the Democratic primary and give Sanders a chance, rather than help Trump edge out Clinton.
    Bingo! I think you are correct. They were trying to help Sanders!!!!!! not Trump but few see the connection.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 12-17-2016 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Stuff/ fix quote

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azor View Post
    The US Response to Russian Cyberwarfare

    It is astounding that the White House and Intelligence Community would not count on Russia interfering in the primaries and election.

    Snowden revealed that the United States has the best SIGINT and cyberwarfare capabilities in the world, and this was kept secret from the public, who believed for many years that China and Russia were superior in these areas. There is a great deal of discussion on how the DOD and various service branches are creating cyberwarfare units to “catch up” to their opposite numbers in Russia and China, but this discussion misses the point that it was the NSA developing the capabilities. The creation of Cyber Command at the NSA’s headquarters had more to do with legal and political issues than ones of capability.

    As for Russian disinformation, it is actually difficult to counter. Putin did not create the machine in order to convince Westerners of anything, which he knew would fail. Instead of taking on the role of a prosecutor, who has to prove a case to the audience, Putin took on the role of defense counsel, where his only task was to create doubt. Russia issues a swarm of positive claims that independently are unbelievable, but in aggregate, and in concert with its negative claims, succeed in creating doubt. Putin isn’t seeking to influence elites in the West. He is seeking to influence the man at a bar or dinner table, having a casual conversation with friends.

    Example 1: “Don’t you believe that Russia invaded Ukraine?”  “Yeah, but there are Russians there and…it’s complicated…I just don’t know…we should just stay out of it…”

    Example 2: “Not all Syrian rebels are terrorists, you know that right?”  “I know, but it seems that way sometimes…it’s complicated…I just don’t know…we should just stay out of it…”

    Putin places the burden of proof on Obama, who would rather “just stay out” of foreign crises if possible. In today’s world of Tweets, how can Obama possible explain the nuances of the Syrian Civil War to the American public? He can either take a pro-Assad or anti-Assad position, and Trump has chosen the former. For the latter, Obama would have to declare that Iran has invaded Syria, is attempting to conquer it and that Iranian aggression, including by their client Assad, must be defeated.

    But then this narrative if followed would nullify the JCPOA and lead to a US war with Syria, Iran, Iraq and possibly Russia, with additional insurgencies in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. So Obama has no counter.

    The Intelligence Community on Russian Theft and Disclosure of DNC Materials

    Again, I believe that the Russians were responsible for the WikiLeaks releases of DNC materials. I have always believed that Snowden, Assange and Manning are Russian agents, because the Russians are probably the best at developing assets whereas the West has to typically wait for defectors to approach.

    I agree with the conclusions of Mark Galeotti and Paul Gregory on Russia’s interference during the election.

    I also believe that the CIA’s conclusion about Russian intentions, leaked to the press by an anonymous official, was intended to insinuate that Trump was an illegitimate president. CIA Director Brennan has stated that he wants to serve under Hillary Clinton, and both Deputy Directors are Democratic operatives with no intelligence or defense experience prior to appointment by Obama.

    Also note the list of former intelligence officials who have publicly endorsed Hillary Clinton, and this list does not even include former NSC or DHS officials:

    • David Shedd (DIA)
    • John Negroponte (ODNI)
    • Michael Leiter (ODNI)
    • Matt Olsen (ODNI)
    • Michael Hayden (NSA)


    CIA alone:

    • David Petraeus (ex-Director)
    • Michael Morell (ex-Director)
    • Michael Hayden (ex-Director)
    • Robert Gates (ex-Director)
    • Mike Baker (officer)
    • Evan McMullin (officer)


    Quite an unbiased group of professionals, wouldn't you say? Arguably, the WikiLeaks release of the DNC e-mails was intended to influence the primary and give Sanders a chance.

    As with Brexit, the losing side is executing “Project Fear” and attempting to overturn Trump’s election. First, there were accusations that the Russians manipulated the polling machines, which were baseless. Second, there were accusations that Russia swung the election for Trump by manipulating public opinion. Third, Comey was accused of acting for Trump by issuing his letters to Congress. Fourth, there are attempts to change the Electors’ votes so as to trigger a constitutional crisis. Notice that everyone is blamed but Hillary.

    Trump’s Response to the CIA’s “Conclusion”

    Trump’s response was correct. He knew that the CIA was playing politics. He also knew that Americans would not understand the nuance of: “Yes, the Russians interfered. No, they didn’t necessarily want me elected. No, they weren’t responsible for my win”. Clinton’s insinuation that Trump is a Russian agent, began months ago, is too toxic for Trump to even approach.

    We know that intelligence on Operation Inherent Resolve was manipulated to show a higher level of success against Daesh than in actuality. In addition, the CIA and DOD estimates of Daesh's fighting strength in 2014 and 2015 were ridiculously low (~10X lower than Peshmerga estimates). Of course, it wouldn't do for Obama's hasty exit from Iraq to have helped create a larger and worse version of Al Qaeda, now would it? To date, the Coalition has killed more Daesh fighters than originally estimated...

    As with Brexit, you are propagating "Project Fear". Do you remember our tête-à-tête over Brexit? If you do, then you should know that I'm not going to roll over for this one either.

    You thought that Hillary would give you the more muscular foreign policy you wanted: arms to Ukraine, increased information/intelligence operations against Russia, increased sanctions on Russia, a no-fly and perhaps no-drive zone in Syria, etc. I know you didn't get what you wanted, but it's not worth a constitutional crisis over.

    When Obama doesn't do as you like, well, he's throwing the poor Ukrainians and Syrians under the bus, he's in league with Putin and Khamenei to massacre Sunni Arabs, etc.

    You can continue to swarm with posts and links, but it doesn't change the fact that Trump won, and Russia's interference didn't change the outcome of the election. It didn't. Not by any measure of electoral chances. If you want to blame someone, blame Comey, or better yet, Hillary herself.

    We'll see what Trump does. He might surprise you yet and let the Russians and Iranians have it. If he does, and he earns your absentee ballot, you'll have a lot of deleting to do.
    Azor....then what was the sudden shift by the FBI when they were fully and completely read on and into the available CIA evidence that included key foreign intelligence??????

    REMEMBER Trump diverted attention from himself and when he knew and his tweet lies...by stating..."see even the FBI and ODNI does not agree with the CIA"...WHAT does he now say....he has actually been totally silent since the ODNI/FBI announcements...

    BUT WAIT...really check when WikiLeaks dumped the last key data....Infowars, Alan Jackson...and Bretbart.com were cheering the day that WL stated they would release them BUT suddenly WL did not leak....BUT then they did...LONG after the primaries and Sanders ...so throwing out Sanders is a blatant smokescreen in this debate...stay focused on the actual release dates of hack DNC materials via WL...not assumptions.....dates....real dates....

    WHAT you and others fail to see....this is not a specific attack on the DNC...on Clinton and in fact on the RNC...which we know nothing about what they hold in Moscow over the RNC with emails....WHAT they stole in typical Russian active measures fashion was put to good strategic use regardless of the target and the more they could hit with it the better....

    THIS is a continuing attack on the US as a whole liberal system....go back and fully understand the current three geopolitical goals of Putin and then rethink just how these active measures was used to support those goals....

    Especially in light of the DoD hack of 2015 that virtually crippled DoD until the hack was cleared....and a specific hack on a US power grid late 2015..that has not been talked about in the US.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-17-2016 at 09:56 AM.

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    Default To Outlaw 09 RE: Trump

    Firstly, you are ignoring several issues with the CIA’s leaked conclusion as to Russian intent:

    • The CIA’s mission is foreign not domestic
    • The CIA is not the technical leader in SIGINT/cyber
    • How would the CIA have more insight than the FBI, given the latter’s mission?
    • How would the CIA have more insight than the NSA, given the latter’s capabilities?
    • How can you dismiss the endorsement of Hillary Clinton by 4 former Directors of the CIA and 2 former officers?
    • How can you dismiss the support for Hillary Clinton by the current Director or the fact that the Deputy Directors are political operatives?


    Secondly, WikiLeaks’s primary release of information (the DNC e-mail correspondence) was prior to the Democratic Primary. The release on Podesta’s e-mails were in October, but had no noticeable effect, given the uproar over the Access Hollywood tape.

    Thirdly, I am glad that you are acknowledging that WikiLeaks has ammunition with which to attack both Trump and the GOP.

    Fourth, we can agree that Putin wants to undermine American democracy, particularly in order to legitimize Russia’s own “managed democracy”.

    Fifth, you will have to post sources on the hacks on the DOD and US power grid in 2015.

    Lastly, I am also glad that you are no longer insinuating that Trump is a Russian agent or that his election victory was due to Russian interference.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azor View Post
    Firstly, you are ignoring several issues with the CIA’s leaked conclusion as to Russian intent:

    • The CIA’s mission is foreign not domestic
    • The CIA is not the technical leader in SIGINT/cyber
    • How would the CIA have more insight than the FBI, given the latter’s mission?
    • How would the CIA have more insight than the NSA, given the latter’s capabilities?
    • How can you dismiss the endorsement of Hillary Clinton by 4 former Directors of the CIA and 2 former officers?
    • How can you dismiss the support for Hillary Clinton by the current Director or the fact that the Deputy Directors are political operatives?


    Secondly, WikiLeaks’s primary release of information (the DNC e-mail correspondence) was prior to the Democratic Primary. The release on Podesta’s e-mails were in October, but had no noticeable effect, given the uproar over the Access Hollywood tape.

    Thirdly, I am glad that you are acknowledging that WikiLeaks has ammunition with which to attack both Trump and the GOP.

    Fourth, we can agree that Putin wants to undermine American democracy, particularly in order to legitimize Russia’s own “managed democracy”.

    Fifth, you will have to post sources on the hacks on the DOD and US power grid in 2015.

    Lastly, I am also glad that you are no longer insinuating that Trump is a Russian agent or that his election victory was due to Russian interference.
    Azor...you must really do research on the IC.....

    1. let us get the following out of the way and assume I am correct which BTW I am.......36% of ALL twitter social media proTrump and anti Clinton tweets came from the Russian backed Macedonia trolling company...36%.....

    We are still comparing the data but it appears that they were a total of over 404 "fake news sites in the US"...all feeding off of three key fake sites that even Fox and company were even quoting....

    AND many of those supporting Trump stated publicly they got their info from social media

    2. an American...at least he claims he is one....sitting in France and adamantly claiming he is anti Clinton drove a "fake news site" that was picked up by over these 404 proTrump blogsites...fake news sites....Infowars...Alex Jones...and Brietbart.com.

    SO in theory that you think I have not abandoned the idea the Trump was largely supported and helped by Russia...think again...he was in fact supported by Putin and Russia did influence the election....via propaganda...disinformation...proTrump trolling and fake news sites....

    You really do need to get a job at both CIA and NSA....yes CIA handles foreign vs the domestic side by the FBI...BUT these Russian hacks and info warfare ALL came from outside the US NOT inside the US.....AND the FBI does not have the overseas collection abilities of the CIA nor can they confirm or deny without assistance from the CIA/NSA...

    If you knew the IC then you would have often seen NSA data being used to back up CIA information on the concept of confirm or deny...this allows the NSA to remain in the shadows and not have to release their sources of their information

    NOW go back to the Mother Jones article concerning the Russian active measures...THAT got shot to hell by the then MSM and so called experts because they did not want to release the sources of the information BEFORE the election....

    THAT information was in fact reconfirmed by the CIA...as it was built off of verified intelligence passed to them from foreign sources...

    Ever notice that that particular article has not resurfaced after the CIA report?

    IT was used to signal to the CIA.... yes we have info if you are interested and it is verified...and in this business if it is verified you are home free in the HUMINT world.....

    BTW...at one time Trump was claiming he had over 280 US Generals and senior officers supporting him BUT he never did reveal their names did he??????...at least those supporting Clinton allowed their names to be printed....

    OR was Trump lying about those Generals????

    BTW all political nominations must still adhere to the released internal research and reports...BUT this is important ....all political nominees do not and cannot influence the final intel product.....as the reports are conducted by true civil service and contractor types and politics are forbidden in the analysis world....UNLESS you are a Cmdr at CENTCOM using undo influence....which is a military problem....

    I assume WL has ammunition on just about anyone and or anything Russia has hacked in the last ten years especially what Snowdon fed them...

    BUT you raise an interesting question.... WHY were they one sided and not two sided and release all on all DNC and RNC?????? CORE Question...

    DoD hack was in 2015 and the news article carried here in SWC...the power grid hack customer has not authorized the release of the information under non disclosure....

    AND yes again I am stating Russia via Putin did influence the Trump election....

    FROM today....polling is indicating a full 52% of Trump voters fully believe the Trump lies that he won the general election....right now he is approximately 3M votes behind in the general election numbers.....THAT is not a "win"

    He also tweeted that he has a record Electoral College votes...ACTUALLY another lie.... he is 46th in all time votes....NOT the largest as he alludes to in his tweets....

    I can post those tweets of his where he alludes to this very thing....

    Azor.....BTW...notice how erratic Trump has been with his tweets over the Chinese taking of the research drone

    In Beijing on Sunday, the Global Times, a Communist Party-controlled newspaper known for its nationalist town, poked fun at the mixed messages coming from the United States.

    “Before Trump’s generous announcement that he didn’t want the drone back, the Pentagon had already announced publicly that they have asked China to return the ‘illegally seized’ [unmanned underwater vehicle] through appropriate governmental channels,” the paper wrote.#“We don’t know, after seeing Trump’s new tweets, if the Pentagon should feel boggled.”
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-18-2016 at 02:02 PM.

  15. #255
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    Haaretz.com

    @haaretzcom
    Why Trump's pick for Israel envoy is anti-Israeli | Gideon Levy
    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.759618#

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Azor...you must really do research on the IC.....

    1. let us get the following out of the way and assume I am correct which BTW I am.......36% of ALL twitter social media proTrump and anti Clinton tweets came from the Russian backed Macedonia trolling company...36%.....

    We are still comparing the data but it appears that they were a total of over 404 "fake news sites in the US"...all feeding off of three key fake sites that even Fox and company were even quoting....

    AND many of those supporting Trump stated publicly they got their info from social media

    2. an American...at least he claims he is one....sitting in France and adamantly claiming he is anti Clinton drove a "fake news site" that was picked up by over these 404 proTrump blogsites...fake news sites....Infowars...Alex Jones...and Brietbart.com.

    SO in theory that you think I have not abandoned the idea the Trump was largely supported and helped by Russia...think again...he was in fact supported by Putin and Russia did influence the election....via propaganda...disinformation...proTrump trolling and fake news sites....

    You really do need to get a job at both CIA and NSA....yes CIA handles foreign vs the domestic side by the FBI...BUT these Russian hacks and info warfare ALL came from outside the US NOT inside the US.....AND the FBI does not have the overseas collection abilities of the CIA nor can they confirm or deny without assistance from the CIA/NSA...

    If you knew the IC then you would have often seen NSA data being used to back up CIA information on the concept of confirm or deny...this allows the NSA to remain in the shadows and not have to release their sources of their information

    NOW go back to the Mother Jones article concerning the Russian active measures...THAT got shot to hell by the then MSM and so called experts because they did not want to release the sources of the information BEFORE the election....

    THAT information was in fact reconfirmed by the CIA...as it was built off of verified intelligence passed to them from foreign sources...

    Ever notice that that particular article has not resurfaced after the CIA report?

    IT was used to signal to the CIA.... yes we have info if you are interested and it is verified...and in this business if it is verified you are home free in the HUMINT world.....

    BTW...at one time Trump was claiming he had over 280 US Generals and senior officers supporting him BUT he never did reveal their names did he??????...at least those supporting Clinton allowed their names to be printed....

    OR was Trump lying about those Generals????

    BTW all political nominations must still adhere to the released internal research and reports...BUT this is important ....all political nominees do not and cannot influence the final intel product.....as the reports are conducted by true civil service and contractor types and politics are forbidden in the analysis world....UNLESS you are a Cmdr at CENTCOM using undo influence....which is a military problem....

    I assume WL has ammunition on just about anyone and or anything Russia has hacked in the last ten years especially what Snowdon fed them...

    BUT you raise an interesting question.... WHY were they one sided and not two sided and release all on all DNC and RNC?????? CORE Question...

    DoD hack was in 2015 and the news article carried here in SWC...the power grid hack customer has not authorized the release of the information under non disclosure....

    AND yes again I am stating Russia via Putin did influence the Trump election....

    FROM today....polling is indicating a full 52% of Trump voters fully believe the Trump lies that he won the general election....right now he is approximately 3M votes behind in the general election numbers.....THAT is not a "win"

    He also tweeted that he has a record Electoral College votes...ACTUALLY another lie.... he is 46th in all time votes....NOT the largest as he alludes to in his tweets....

    I can post those tweets of his where he alludes to this very thing....

    Azor.....BTW...notice how erratic Trump has been with his tweets over the Chinese taking of the research drone
    Azor......just from today........

    Last night's electricity blackout in Kiev, Ukraine was caused by a cyber attack:
    http://www.interfax.ru/world/541917
    In Russian.....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-18-2016 at 05:08 PM.

  17. #257
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    BahamasLeaks document highlights Rex Tillerson’s business dealings with Russia
    http://bit.ly/2gORWyJ

    Leak reveals Rex Tillerson is director of Bahamas-based US-Russian oil company -
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...=share_btn_tw#

    The document showing Tillerson’s directorship of Exxon Neftegas was among more than 12 million leaked files that were provided anonymously to Süddeutsche Zeitung and then shared with ICIJ, resulting in the Panama Papers and Bahamas Leaks investigations.
    Question is, did @realDonaldTrump know? And what gems have the Panama Papers yet to reveal about PEOTUS?
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-18-2016 at 07:05 PM.

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    Default To Outlaw 09 RE: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09
    Azor...you must really do research on the IC...You really do need to get a job at both CIA and NSA....yes CIA handles foreign vs the domestic side by the FBI...BUT these Russian hacks and info warfare ALL came from outside the US NOT inside the US.....AND the FBI does not have the overseas collection abilities of the CIA nor can they confirm or deny without assistance from the CIA/NSA....
    It disappoints me when you start to get personal. It is also amusing considering that a former intelligence analyst who served in both defense and private roles, has Top Secret security clearance, and who served in Afghanistan, agrees with me.

    Following your logic, the NSA and ODNI let the CIA speak for it, and the FBI allowed details of an active investigation to be leaked through the CIA. Does this illegal conspiracy to get the truth to the American people make sense, or does it make more sense that the Director of the CIA is playing politics?

    You have yet to address any of my points regarding the endorsement of Hillary Clinton by almost all of the retired intelligence and national security community, which you yourself lauded months ago as a demonstration of her worthiness. Now that she has lost, this community is suddenly apolitical and beyond reproach.

    We have witnessed the politicization of intelligence to support military operations from Vietnam on, most recently during Operation Inherent Resolve.

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09
    …36% of ALL twitter social media proTrump and anti Clinton tweets came from the Russian backed Macedonia trolling company...36%...We are still comparing the data but it appears that they were a total of over 404 "fake news sites in the US"...all feeding off of three key fake sites that even Fox and company were even quoting…AND many of those supporting Trump stated publicly they got their info from social media…2. an American...at least he claims he is one....sitting in France and adamantly claiming he is anti Clinton drove a "fake news site" that was picked up by over these 404 proTrump blogsites...fake news sites....Infowars...Alex Jones...and Brietbart.com.
    • Which stories were fabricated, exactly?
    • How can you determine the impact of misinformation on those people that voted for Trump?
    • Are you claiming that misinformation was absent from presidential election campaigns prior to 2016 and that it is solely from Russia?


    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09
    SO in theory that you think I have not abandoned the idea the Trump was largely supported and helped by Russia...think again...he was in fact supported by Putin and Russia did influence the election....via propaganda...disinformation...pro-Trump trolling and fake news sites...
    There is no evidence that Russian interference had a significant impact on the election. You continue to question Trump’s legitimacy because of your preferences for defense and foreign policy.

    Hillary Clinton was the establishment candidate who had the political, financial and security elites on her side, including in the GOP. Trump won in an upset, fighting an uphill battle against his own party, backed by significant grassroots support, and yet now he is suddenly an agent of the Kremlin.

    It is curious that you live in Germany and yet deny that Russia has any legitimate grievances with the United States or NATO. Had it not been for the Soviet Union and fear of Communism, Germany would have been more likely to have been subject to the Morgenthau Plan rather than the Marshall Plan.

    As China becomes the primary threat to the United States, there will have to be rapprochement with Russia...

    Given the sore losing on the part of Democrats, it seems that Russia has indeed discredited American democracy

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azor View Post
    It disappoints me when you start to get personal. It is also amusing considering that a former intelligence analyst who served in both defense and private roles, has Top Secret security clearance, and who served in Afghanistan, agrees with me.

    Following your logic, the NSA and ODNI let the CIA speak for it, and the FBI allowed details of an active investigation to be leaked through the CIA. Does this illegal conspiracy to get the truth to the American people make sense, or does it make more sense that the Director of the CIA is playing politics?

    You have yet to address any of my points regarding the endorsement of Hillary Clinton by almost all of the retired intelligence and national security community, which you yourself lauded months ago as a demonstration of her worthiness. Now that she has lost, this community is suddenly apolitical and beyond reproach.

    We have witnessed the politicization of intelligence to support military operations from Vietnam on, most recently during Operation Inherent Resolve.



    • Which stories were fabricated, exactly?
    • How can you determine the impact of misinformation on those people that voted for Trump?
    • Are you claiming that misinformation was absent from presidential election campaigns prior to 2016 and that it is solely from Russia?




    There is no evidence that Russian interference had a significant impact on the election. You continue to question Trump’s legitimacy because of your preferences for defense and foreign policy.

    Hillary Clinton was the establishment candidate who had the political, financial and security elites on her side, including in the GOP. Trump won in an upset, fighting an uphill battle against his own party, backed by significant grassroots support, and yet now he is suddenly an agent of the Kremlin.

    It is curious that you live in Germany and yet deny that Russia has any legitimate grievances with the United States or NATO. Had it not been for the Soviet Union and fear of Communism, Germany would have been more likely to have been subject to the Morgenthau Plan rather than the Marshall Plan.

    As China becomes the primary threat to the United States, there will have to be rapprochement with Russia...

    Given the sore losing on the part of Democrats, it seems that Russia has indeed discredited American democracy
    This comment has actually now convinced me that you truly do not fully understand the Russian political warfare being carried out against the US using non linear warfare...

    Since you have been following the Ukrainian thread the last two years you would have seen my postings of the open source analysis done by GlobalVoices on the proRussian trolling on just twitter.....and how their network link analysis did in fact point to the actual twitter accounts driving over 1500 further accounts and what topics they were driving...

    That same software allows for network link analysis on virtually all social media and it allows one to determine who started a particular event and who linked into it and who pushed it along....actually quite interesting to see the analysis....

    Unless you fully understand how info warfare and cyber warfare interact with each other ...it is a waste of time to continue.....

    BY the way I judge the impact of a particular fake news story by the number of 1) retweets...2) how many social media accounts picked it up..3) did it get picked up by MSM and how many alt right and ultra conservative accounts picked it as well....AND does then that fake story get mentioned during interviews by Trump supporters...granted not scientific but enlightening nevertheless....MORE importantly how fast did it travel from being dropped as a fake news article and or comment to being picked up by MSM.....

    EXAMPLE....CNN interviewed five Trump supporters that all "SWORE" that millions of illegal Mexicans had voted in California ...BECAUSE California had passed a law allowing them to vote and they were then bussed in to vote....WHEN pushed that there was no such law/never was such a law and it was a social media myth...they basically refused to accept that it was a lie...ONE person even stated she had read on social media that it had been said even by Obama...when referring to the CA law....

    EXAMPLE: there was a massive myth that Clinton/Democracts were involved in a child porno ring being run out of a pizza shop in DC....this myth circulated for a three full months on the ultra right social media sites....then got picked up by Infowars and Alex Jones who pushed out a video to his readers on the subject...then it got picked up by Brietbart.com....EVEN the DC Police chief denied the story as a fake TWICE....and not true

    THEN a NC resident decided he wanted to investigate this story and get to the bottom of it..he carried a loaded rifle into the pizza shop and fired off a round and then was totally surprised to find out the story was a myth....when he was arrested for endangering the customers.

    THEN Jones decided he might be better off deleting his own video which triggered this random act of violence tied to a fake news story from the ultra right...

    BTW you truly do not fully understand just how intel reports are created..shared and used to support the releasing of information BETWEEN the various agencies....simply to avoid having to reveal sources and methods....

    I understand that it is hard to believe that our newly elected president who still has not released his tax records...who has not divested himself from his businesses and who has a massive conflict of interest looming over him and who repeatedly lied via his own tweets could have connections to Russia and or received assistance directly from Putin....

    Will be interested to see what comes out of the coming Senate investigation on the Russian hacks and who was behind it....

    Until this occurs this comment thread is really going nowhere fast...
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 12-19-2016 at 04:23 PM.

  20. #260
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    Trump's Babysitters tones down skepticism on Russia hacking evidence
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/priebus-...ns-1482084741#

    How Putin’s Fake News Machine Spread From Ukraine Across the#Globe
    Outrageous media hoaxes, Internet trolls and repression at home are all key instruments in the Kremlin’s political tool#box
    https://warisboring.com/how-putins-f...919#.fqiavxv3i

    “Trump tends to echo words of the last person with whom he spoke, making direct access to him even more valuable.”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs....ea0db079e3a3#

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