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  1. #1
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    Disagree, outlaw made assertions about why people voted for Trump. In many, if not most cases, it was due to he was running against, not because they embraced Trump; therefore, she is relevant.

    Regarding Trump, I think he will hit a steep learning curve, and rapidly try to walk away from many of his campaign promises that we're little more than fantasies. If he attempts to befriend Putin, he will lose the respect of the national security establishment and Congress. Domestically, if he starts going after illegals in a way that isn't legal or against the values most Americans embrace he'll build a wall between Congress and the White House. Then so much for making a deal. So he'll either disappoint his true supporters, or isolate himself from those necessary to advance his agenda. There will be rough spots, but our check and balance system will moderate them. It remains possible that he will actually be a decent President, the jury is still out. At this point neither the prosecutor or the defense have a case, so all we can really discuss with any degree of fact is why people voted for him.

    The social movement in many parts of the world that brought us Brexit and Trump in broad terms is due to a backlash against globalization and the new economic order. A condition very relevant to the SWJ community for what it portends.
    Last edited by Bill Moore; 11-12-2016 at 08:16 AM.

  2. #2
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    Bill....if you recall a number of my comments pertaining to Trump well before the actual election I was seriously warning of his lies and deceptions and his model that he was pushing which is neo nationalistic built on a healthy dose of racism driven by the KKK and the alt Right ....AND the 270 armed militias.

    For concrete proof for what I just said check Trump's very last campaign ad and then count ...yes literally count the number of anti Semitic dog whistles being blared at his followers.....AND YES I use the term fellow travelers very accurately here....

    I reside in the land of the living history of a man called Hitler who used a weak and splintered democracy to move his agenda forward USING the same exact dog whistles that Trump and company have used....SO I saw long before many saw in the US just where he was heading and tried to warn.

    OUR democracy is a shell of what it use to be....WHY

    26.6% of those that voted voted for Clinton
    26.4% of those that voted voted for Trump
    Actually the Clinton general election votes are still steadily climbing

    BUT here is the kicker....over 49% of those that could have DID NOT VOTE

    So in effect we now have a minority elected President and a minority splintered Republican Party claiming a MANDATE to rule the majority of the rest of the country.....THAT is a plan that goes over with them like a lead balloon.....look at the term "legitimacy".....and tell me Trump has "legitimacy" to represent the majority of Americans who actually did not vote for him......

    We have a minority who voted for Trump trying to turn back the historical clock to a "better time"....WHEN both you and I from a vast amount of experience simply knows that will never work...WHY because we are educated...maybe speak a foreign language ...have travelled this world of ours...have fought and lost close friends in the name of defending this country and on and on......

    WHY do you now think we are having the pop up demos across the country as the minority that won the election vote feel robbed....and I predict this movement will both grow and get more radical if in fact Trump follows through....there is actually a great resemblance of the peaceful start of Syrian demos and the reaction of Assad against them we are seeing ever so subtly develop out of this election.

    WHAT those Trumpers do not fully understand yet is that their great leader STATED 141 times 141 different comments to them at rallies on 23 different topics......

    THINK about that for a moment....WHY did he do that....BECAUSE now he can do what he wants and then claim that is exactly what he stated he was going to do....does one see yet a well planned demagogue hard at work...

    WHAT concerns me is the following...

    Trump if one has followed him over the years was basically for years a Democrat in belief and statements.....

    BUT then suddenly he appears in the birther movement well actually he drove the birther movement only appearing lately to back away from his statements WHICH he really did not...he just wanted black votes...

    WHAT I love about social media is the ability to pull back the past and relook at what individuals posted and then did...and there is much on Trump if the US MSM had taken the time to research and fact find.....

    CHECK his tweets and statements stating with the 2012 reelection of Obama....especially when he gets on a particular twitter rant....he voiced hatred for the electoral college...hatred for the election process and between the lines he fully indicates that he a full blown racist at heart...BUT that never came up in the US MSM ....

    Simply but Trump is a racist...a bigot...a sexual predator who used and abuses his power over women and people and he is at heart a deeply committed con artist who has floated a ponzi scheme called property management....WITH currently 630M USDs of debt that has to be serviced yearly and that debt burden is climbing not sinking...SO will he put his businesses health before the Republic's health if a FP decision damages his personal investments?

    IT is a Ponzi scheme when one goes bankrupt six times.....no wonder the US banks have refused to deal with him ...BUT again never fully explored by MSM during the election was it???

    NOW we have a new President that evidently very quickly settled a fraud and racketeering federal court case so he would not have to personally testify personally in a court of law arguing up to Thursday that as President elect he did not have "time to testify"....THAT is his "respect for the rule of law" full in your face and the Trumpers who voted for him fully understood that...

    NOW we have a new President that instead of truly placing his businesses into a true blind trust which means management by a outside company not picked by him and overseen by a not picked by him law firm WE get his definition of a blind trust...."my family is going to run it".....

    NOW convince me his sons and daughter will not utter...speak...write a single word about his businesses inside that blind trust....to him over dinner??

    WHAT concerns me far more that his sex problems or his financial problems is his inherent and slowly coming out deep ties to Russian money and oligarchs and yes Putin is a 40B USD oligarch...and Trump is in constant need of cash for his business empire....

    WHAT concerns me is that server that was in the Trump Tower which conversed daily to someone in the Alpha Bank in Moscow AND that apparently was ongoing over months....what concerns me is the blatant lie by both his campaign management AND Trump himself TWICE inside four months...."we do not have ties to anything Russian and or Russians"...

    The configuration of that server parallels exactly what the Russian SVR does to ensure confidential comms over the internet for their recruited agents and deep covers AND that was alluded to by some very serious internet geeks....

    THEN one day after the election Russian officials under approval from Moscow openly crow about their constant ties during the election to Trump..well maybe a little MSM interest and Putin's personal spokesperson wants to fly immediately to NYC...before any other western leader visits him....come on people wake up and smell the roses....

    As someone who thoroughly understand Stasi and KGB recruitment tactics find me someone inside the current US IC CI community that does not honestly feel with the track record of Trump in sex.... drugs..soft porn videos... and rock and roll the SVR did not attempt to either directly recruit him and or has compromising material on him....IMHO it is a given....

    The Founding Fathers were inherently fearful of the "masses" thus we have the Electoral College that Trump hated in 2012 but loves now....what you say we have a SC...sorry it will be a 5/4 court and evidently a 6/4 right wing court for literally years to come even if the Republicans loss at some point .....you say we have the various splits inside the RP in Congress that will balance...him...We have 38 State Governors controlling 38 Red States with massive gerrymandering programs and some very slick voter suppression programs in place.....BTW all out so called "checks and balances are based on "traditions" not the rule of law if one paid close attention in the HS Civics class.

    SO I see no checks and balances as you do...WHICH is exactly what Hitler had going forward in 33...

    You say we have the great FBI to keep corruption out of the political marketplace BUT that same RP controlled FBI leaked very badly on Clinton and somehow missed all the proRussian adivsors around Trump...Manafort...Page.... and to a degree Woolsely....who never fired a single person inside the CIA for their failure to detect Ames and then he suddenly quit when there were demands to dig deeper inside the CIA as some stated there were more Ames in play as there always is just as we are seeing now inside the NSA.....

    Taken all together....if you...I or anyone else that posted on SWJ had committed over 30 years what Trump has done and proven he has done we would never seen a single security clearance in our lifetimes...

    Here is the kicker..if one has been to Moscow and has done business with foreign nationals THAT is reason alone to go far deeper into his history of those travels and contacts AND if there is suspicion on the Adjudicator's part about possible "influence" THAT alone is enough to deny a clearance these days after Snowdon...

    As a former strategic debriefer/interrogator with over 17 years of field experience in Europe I learned to pay extreme attention to how someone uses words...the words themselves down to the reflextion in the use of those words....now you fully understand why I was warning on SWJ....

    Trump is racist end of story....Trump has been compromised by Russia....and Trump is a ponzi scheme con artist who only cares about himself end of story....

    How many Trump voters have seen in their lifetimes the Hitler execution chambers here in Berlin...the mass execution/concentration sites for Jews here in Germany and the Czech Republic and how many have seen the Saddam execution chambers...

    I have and I hate them.....I have close Jewish (Israeli/Russian) friends here in Berlin that are telling me they see the second coming...of a new democratically elected by US citizens of a second Hitler....

    I have seen the polling of the young German and French (20-35) who by a margin of 2/3rds stated openly Trump is a threat to world peace and world stability...NEVER have I ever seen that before on a US President...yes they laughed about our Cowboy President but in the end they respected him ...BUT this time there is something far different in play....they now basically inside one election results openly distrust the US....

    I have never seen a German sitting government basically warn the US to follow the principles of the rule of law and good governance to protect civil and human rights...that coming from Europeans.....
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 11-12-2016 at 07:35 AM.

  3. #3
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    Bill...this is what I mean those that voted for Trump did not stop to count the number of times he changed his narrative EXACTLY 141 times on 23 topics...THEY HEARD the underlying narrative and took it seriously.....whereas most of the MSM took what he was saying "literally"....not "seriously".....it was the dog whistles that his supporters/followers fully understood.....

    In the world of Orwell he wrote a lot about the concept of "doublespeak" in fascism and I am afraid many Americans simply do not understand that concept....
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-19-2016 at 01:40 PM. Reason: Remove unsourced quote

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    Someone recently asked me to build a number of indicators that could/would indicate Trump is in "bed with Russia" ie under their "influence"...

    I was up to five or six.........number SEVEN.......came fast and quick.....

    Dizzy with success: Putin spokesman suggests Trump scale back NATO deployments to foster ties w Kremlin. #Baltics
    http://bigstory.ap.org/295849a11d584a

    IMHO.....hate to be in the current shoes of the "grey beards" in the US CI community.......THIS is a nightmare.....HOW do you reject a security clearance for the President of the US??????

    A challenge to any reader here at SWJ who cares about CI....show me I am wrong on my assumptions......

    HERE is an additional problem...if someone is in fact rejected from a clearance and or renewal of a clearance and has a good lawyer...they could in effect argue that Trump got his in spite of massive issues and actually win in court....the clearance community is setting a precedence for years to come...and that in the face of the Snowden affair where we know he was recruited by the SVR...
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-19-2016 at 01:40 PM.

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    Perilous beyond words: Russian govt contacts w/Trump campaign is a "monumental story" demands investigating before swearing in...some outsiders seem to know what is happening before the voters of Trump know it....

    Breitbart's expanding. Lotsa $$ in selling fear, hate, lies to delegitimize Obama & Clinton. Trump adviser Flynn spreads the same propaganda

    While the media licks its wounds & soothes us with kinder gentler Trump, where the hell is the story of Wikileaks & Russia who helped him??
    "So we're just going to forget WikiLeaks and Russia helped Trump?"
    http://hill.cm/xGlKia5
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 11-12-2016 at 08:19 AM.

  6. #6
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    Why isn't this thundering thru the news cycle? Why aren't 100s of natl-security reporters all over it??
    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics...mp-campaign/#… @ESQPolitics

    Maybe it's because I grew up at the tail end of the McCarthy Era and in the heart of the Cold War, and maybe because I spent 13 awful days in 1962 waiting for the missiles to fly, and maybe it's because I believe that, Tsarist or Communist or Kleptocracy, Russia behaves in pretty much the same way, but I honestly believe that this should be the only story dominating the news right now.

    At least, I think it warrants as much space in our various media as was devoted to the BREAKING NEWS about what John Podesta had for lunch last year.

    Per The Washington Post:
    The statement came from Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov, who said in an interview with the state-run Interfax news agency that "there were contacts" with the Trump team. "Obviously, we know most of the people from his entourage," Ryabkov said. "We have just begun to consider ways of building dialogue with the future Donald Trump administration and channels we will be using for those purposes," Ryabkov was quoted as saying. Ryabkov provided no further details, and his remarks drew a swift denial from Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks, who said the campaign had "no contact with Russian officials" before Tuesday's election.

    Why in Christ's sweet name isn't this thundering through the news cycle right now? Why aren't hundreds of national-security reporters all over it? We have elected a guy who may well have traded what little integrity he has to a vicious autocrat and his thieves-in-law.

    (Note to anyone who takes exception: This is not "red-baiting" because these crooks are not Red.) We know he can't get a loan from most American banks, so he has to go overseas for a lot of his financing. What banks is he tied into, and are any of those banks tied into the Russian government? Whom does he owe and how much does he owe them? And how do they plan to collect?

    This is a monumental story, and it deserves a full airing before we swear this guy in. And it's only part of the unprecedented tangle of shadowy business dealings that will follow him into office. The president-elect also is the defendant in 75 different lawsuits of assorted kinds. He plans to put his assets into a "blind trust" that will be overseen by…his children. I know a lot of people are charmed by his reluctance to abide by traditional political norms and customs, but this is far beyond that. This is a guy toting a huge amount of baggage into the Oval Office and each piece of it contains a ticking time-bomb.

    The Russian business is perilous beyond words. But you can sense even now that our Fourth Estate is pushing it ever so gently in the direction of the same memory hole down which went Nixon's treasonous behavior as regards the Paris Peace Talks and the possibility that the Reagan campaign monkeywrenched the release of the hostages in Iran in 1980. The way this works is that the elite political media decides something is so unthinkable that the children—that's the rest of us—are too delicate to handle it.
    Well, kids, the unthinkable already has happened. You might as well cover it as fully as possible

  7. #7
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    Democracy, complacency, Trumpistan: The Unthinkable Becomes Normal, Authoritarian GOP won't stop it http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...are-di#…

    America is not Ukraine, tho Putin's working on it: "Eerie Parallels Between US Election And Downfall of Ukraine"
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsate.../#1f30742003ce

    For Putin, Trump is not an end in himself but a means to weaken the US and the#West
    http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/11/1...and-the-west/#
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 11-12-2016 at 08:44 AM.

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