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Thread: How do you change the perception?

  1. #81
    Council Member BILL's Avatar
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    Default Two Different Theaters

    TWO DIFFERENT THEATERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Surferbeetle View Post
    The phrase "By Sword, Deed, and Word" is a pithy one that bears reflecting upon. Tempest in a teacup also comes to mind...
    THE INTERNET IS A PRETTY LARGE TEA CUP...
    My experience in Iraq is that there is a very strong (much much stronger than the internet) spoken information network. 'Information' was passed rapidly among friends and acquaintances, and like the childhood game of 'telephone' things would get garbled from time to time. Concrete things like access to water or electricity or the freedom to go to the market or visit friends with minimal security worries, and jobs were things that would get quickly passed along the spoken information network. Perhaps this information network accounts for some share of the successes we are seeming to have with the US & Iraqi surge ( http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...ing_al_qae.php )

    I agree, but they are two differnet theaters, which do influence each other.
    Boots on the ground are critical.
    So are boots on the Internet, the terrorist are leading there by default.

    Here in the west, in the land of abundance, we like to gather around the electronic campfire and talk, and perhaps as a result of this cultural tick, we have a distorted view of the internet's importance. This is not to negate the importance of C2I to any organization or indeed the continually rising power of the internet. As an old grunt who has been around the block once or twice however it always seems that in order to really influence things one needs to have boots on the ground in order to get things done. Handbills, paper or electronic, are not enough.
    You make a good point 'the influence of the Internet on home folk', and their view of the war. USA could be in a leadership position on the Info war on the net if the will exists. Currently USA does not set the Internet Info paradigm, the terrorist do. 4,000 sites, vids, magazines, propaganda, Here is an EXCELLENT article on their use of the net: By Jeffrey Carr.

    "distorted view of the internet's importance", Is our view distorted or is al Qaeda's view paying off?

    We ignore this venue, Internet Info war, at our own peril.

    Bill
    Last edited by BILL; 12-30-2007 at 10:57 PM.

  2. #82
    Council Member BILL's Avatar
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    Default premature?

    There doesn't seem to be an easy paradigm for 'Law' on the Internet.
    The site we refered to as the "data base" was our evidence locker. ( It was hacked and crashed, once much data deleted. )
    We tracked Internet Criminals across the Internet, but there are many jurisdictional problems, the police here and abroad are not Internet savvy, and have little interest in prosecuting Internet crime, at least that was our experience.
    We tracked some to Spain, watched them on the Internet Cafe's security cams. They were arrested, Posted bail, later fined and no restitution.
    And the day after bail were back at their Internet crimes.
    We could track them and collect evidence and proof, but prosecutors didn't understand the proofs and had no interest in prosecuting a crime committed in USA from a different nation for a $15,000 theft.
    We dropped the service when we couldn't obtain restitutions.

    The issues on freedom of speech are not clearly defined, when does free speech cross the line to inciting terrorism?

    At this point I think it falls into the porno paradigm, I know it when "I" see it but others may not agree.

    A good mechanism for prosecuting Internet crime seems to be lacking.

    On an IRC chat board, we were offered 400 American express cards and 3 cards free, we checked the free cards and called the owners and notified them, and called American Express security in Chicago and NY neither were interested in our contacts.

    Maybe a special LAWOPS team for terrorism on the Internet would get better results.

    Bill




    Quote Originally Posted by Tom OC View Post
    One of the issues that has been overlooked on this thread is lawfare, not so much in the asymmetrical sense of using international law for moral advantage, but in the OPLAW sense of how much and how many lawyers are now a part of military operations and decision making. As a criminal justice professor, I have had my eye on this phenomena for awhile and feel skeptical about it, wondering if an increase in thinking like a lawyer will have any beneficial effects. I don't know if all making all things lawyerly would make for good IO. The media, too, are important. Chris Harmon writes in his 2e of Terrorism Today that domestic terrorism is more newspaper-dependent and talks about some interesting issues involving the right to free press. I think the free press issue is the thing to look at, if indeed a fully free press proscribes or prescribes cyber-warrior activity and/or indeed if it even helps to consolidate democracy. Without a theory of free press, all one seems to have are playgrounds for pundits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BILL View Post
    TWO DIFFERENT THEATERS

    Here is an EXCELLENT article on their use of the net: By Jeffrey Carr.
    Glad you liked my article, Bill! You might also like this one on anti-forensic measures adopted by Jihadist websites, published by eSecurityPlanet.com.

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    Council Member BILL's Avatar
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    Default yes

    I've already read it, Excellent.
    Read all your articles listed on your site, good work.
    Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffC View Post
    Glad you liked my article, Bill! You might also like this one on anti-forensic measures adopted by Jihadist websites, published by eSecurityPlanet.com.
    Last edited by BILL; 12-31-2007 at 12:13 AM.

  5. #85
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    One of the issues with Internet crime is that rather than use current laws on the books and drop the concept of cyber is that different jurisdictions continually try and reinvent the wheel. For example "theft" of anything is pretty much figured out and standardized across, local, state, federal, and international communities. Add "cyber" in front of it and suddenly everybody considers it different. Is it? The method has only changed not the fact of what is happening. The concept of theft remains consistent only the law base changes. In my work with NIJ, NWC3 and others I've seen a substantial misperception in computer mediate crime.
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    Council Member BILL's Avatar
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    ( 12.27.07, from Arabic forum ) Emphasis mne.
    و لما سمعناه من ثناء شيخنا الحبيب حكيم الأمة / الشيخ - ايمن الظواهري Ė حفظه الله - ، على رجالات الإعلام وحثه لهم على المضي قدماً في طريق جهادهم رغم المخاطر التي تعترضهم وحيث قال نادباً لهم : " فاللهَ أسألُ أن يجعل رجال الإعلام الجهادي سبباً لنشر رسالة الإسلام و التوحيد لكل الدنيا و بث الوعي الصادق بين جموع الأمة و لإحياء روح العزة و الكرامة و التضحية و الفداء و الجهاد و الاستشهاد بين صفوف المسلمين , و أن يوحدوا جهودهم و يرصوا صفوفهم حتى يكونوا قدوة لغيرهم , و أن يحرصوا على تسجيل تراث الأمة الجهادي الذي لولا توفيق الله لهم لأضاعه الأعداء و العملاء " . And when we heard from praise Cheickna Habib Hakim nation / Sheikh - Ayman al-Zawahiri - may God protect him - the media magnates and urged them to move forward in the way of their struggle despite the risks encountered and where he fouling them: "Ask God to make men Information jihadist cause for spreading the message Islam and uniformity of each floor and creating awareness among the masses sincere nation and to revive the spirit of pride and dignity and sacrifice, sacrifice and jihad and martyrdom among Muslims, and to unite their ranks and Ersoa even be an example for others, and should make the registration of the nation's heritage jihadist , which does not reconcile them to God's enemies and losing customers. "

    Of course this was posted on the Internet.

    Bill

  7. #87
    Council Member Tom OC's Avatar
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    Default A Free Press Theory

    I'm going to venture a proposal for a free press theory accounting for the new media of cyberspace. First of all, I'm focusing upon free press instead of free speech because that's where the real focus ought to be. Terrorism perpetuates itself with press; e.g., things like newsletters, minimanuals, magazines, and the like. Many of the other things terrorists do with the Internet will one day pass, and then we're back to print or print-like publications. I do not believe a libertarian theory of free press will suffice. This theory holds that a unrestrained media will be self-regulating because according to some sociological nonsense about norms being bundled in rights and duties, the right to express yourself as you want will be tempered by the duty to think. I believe an absolutist theory of free press would suffice. This is the kind our founding fathers debated over and admired for its ability to produce the truth. At one time, publishers thought of themselves as seekers of truth, but it all became FARK at some point. In sum, a constitutional amendment tying free press back towards the road of truth might be feasible, and additionally, just as private citizens have made inroads into lawsuits against terrorist organizations for material support, I think inroads should be made against the publishers of libelous and untruthful terrorist statements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom OC View Post
    In sum, a constitutional amendment tying free press back towards the road of truth might be feasible, and additionally, just as private citizens have made inroads into lawsuits against terrorist organizations for material support, I think inroads should be made against the publishers of libelous and untruthful terrorist statements.
    Truth is a relative thing, Tom. Whose truth are you going to protect?

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    Council Member tequila's Avatar
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    Yes, I'd like to know which bureaucrat or judge will be in charge of leading us down The Road of Truth. Shouldn't be too hard to find the a public servant with that sort of wisdom and integrity --- much like the whore with the heart of gold, I hear they're a dime a dozen in all the good movies.

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Default I hate to say it, Tom, but

    there are two key problems with your suggestion. The first, ably skewered by Jeff and Tequila, is the old "What is Truth and who decides" problem. The second is the complete and utter irrelevance of the US constitution to actions taken outside of the US. In the age of the Internet, physical (geographic) borders are increasingly irrelevant as are the legislated systems of morality imposed within those borders. Sam's point about common definitions (e.g. "theft") comes to mind - that one is shared with most social systems, at least in general - and *might* be enforceable, at least in large parts of the globe. Irhabi rants? Not likely !
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  11. #91
    Council Member BILL's Avatar
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    "4. You're invited to provide corroborating evidence from objective sources that supports your case that Jihadist Web sites are conducting Cyber warfare activities in 3rd world nations."

    Command and Control:

    From forum
    I don't know either, but I'm betting it is untrue. The text below is said to be part of a statement from some person or group calling itself "Sawt al-Jihad" (possibly just a blogger, or maybe a provacateur of some kind). But I don't know. As yet there is no word from the big boys in al-Qaida or the Taliban. Dadullah himself, on the phone to AP, says he does not believe the claim comes from Mullah Omar.

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


    الحمد لله رب العالمين والصلاة والسلام على سيدنا محمد وعلى اله وصحبه وسلم وعلى من والاه وعمل بسنته و واتبع هداه، واشهد أن لا اله إلا الله وان سيدنا محمدا عبد الله ورسوله.

    أما بعد،،،

    إن "منصور داد الله" لا يطيع في إجراءاته أوامرنا نحن "أمير المؤمنين" وينفذ أعمالا لا تتوافق مع أصول الإمارة الإسلامية، لأجل هذا قررنا ما يلي:

    عزل "منصور داد الله" من منصبه كقائد عسكري مسؤول وإعفائه فورا من أداء جميع المهام التي كان مكلف بها وعدم إسناد إليه أية وظيفة أو مسئولية في الإمارة الإسلامية، ولا يجب على أي أحد النظر إليه كقائد أو مسئول في الإمارة الإسلامية.

    وقرار مقام الإمارة الإسلامية هذا في حق "منصور داد الله" فقط لا غير، وعلى بقية أصدقاء ورفقاء الشهيد "داد الله" مواصلة جهادهم المقدس في حدود الإمارة الإسلامية وعليهم بعد الآن عدم إطاعة "منصور داد الله" كما على أصدقاء وأهل خير الإمارة الإسلامية عدم حفظ الروابط معه.

    ينفذ هذا القرار في ساعته وتاريخه وعلى الجميع السمع والطاعة.

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    No proves yet when this where truth the Amir Al Mumeneen will release an Audio statement.

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    The Decision authorities of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan removed Mansoor Dadullah from his position as the commander in charger of the Taliban


    In The Name of Allah The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful

    I bear witness that No God But Allah, He has no partner and Muhammad is His slave and messenger



    All Praise and thanks are due to Allah, the Lord of all that exists and may peace and prayers be upon the Messenger of Allah, his family, companions in entirety



    Mullah Mansoor Dadullah is not obedience to the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan in his actions and has carried out activities which were against the rules of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, so the Decision Authorities of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan have removed Mansoor Dadullah from his post and he will no longer be serving the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan in anyways and no Taliban will obey his orders any more.

    This decision only applies to Mansoor Dadullah, all other friends of Mullah Dadullah Shahed will be carrying out their Jihad duties for the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, all the sympathizers of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan end their relationship with Mansoor Dadullah.

    Ameer Al-Mu'meneen

    Mullah Mohammad Omar Mujahid

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    it has been officially confirmed yesterday in the forums
    the reason for the sacking of mansour dadullah are still unclear though

    the statement is signed by mullah mohammed omar
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    The problem I am having with the question, which is excellent, I've experienced , but gave no consideration to preserving proof.

    The question is what we mean by "Cyber warfare activities"
    and "in Third world nations."

    Cyber warfare, I would include, command and control or Recruiting. As the above conversation shows command and control, even awaiting the verbal command from a web site.

    If the web site is in the native language then it can be said they have cyber warfare for that nation.

    I am thinking your looking for actual activities of cyber attack in a third world country.

    We have that also, in the web site al-jinan, who recruited members to down load an DDos program and perform group attacks on sites.

    We took them out:
    Al-Jinan.net is BACK.


    and burned the leader:
    "CYBER ALERT" Islamofascist head ...


    They were attacking web sites in third world countries.
    Their attack list ran maybe 50 sites total?
    This is a good example of my confusion in how to answer your Excellent question.
    This guy lived in Syria, and ran a web site hosted in the USA ( at one time, I think, almost sure, can't remember, their site was knocked down several times ) and recruited members from SA, PK, Af, even USA, to attack sites world wide, some in third world countries.
    "conducting Cyber warfare activities in 3rd world nations?" I say yes, on many levels, but it is complicated, as we see above.


    If I'm missing your point please ask for clarification.

    Bill
    Last edited by BILL; 01-01-2008 at 08:53 AM.

  12. #92
    Council Member Tom OC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    there are two key problems with your suggestion. The first, ably skewered by Jeff and Tequila, is the old "What is Truth and who decides" problem. The second is the complete and utter irrelevance of the US constitution to actions taken outside of the US. In the age of the Internet, physical (geographic) borders are increasingly irrelevant as are the legislated systems of morality imposed within those borders. Sam's point about common definitions (e.g. "theft") comes to mind - that one is shared with most social systems, at least in general - and *might* be enforceable, at least in large parts of the globe. Irhabi rants? Not likely !
    I'm aware of key problems with my proposal, and its Orwellian overtones, but the main point is to follow a 1st Amendment path to control of the media and not tamper with other freedoms there such as freedom of association, speech, etc. It's agreed that truth, like perception, is relative, but as Mary Mapes' book, Truth and Duty, points out, there are such things as facts and fact-checking which media wonks hype as the "truth to power" ideology. Too often, I think, this phrase is taken as a blank slate to bash anyone in power, but it also betrays the idea that the true definition of truth lies submerged within the journalistic mission, not some Ministry of Truth bureaucracy. I'm not suggesting that the government step in any more than necessary to prosecute liars and distorters, and am actually recommending civil not criminal penalties against the media as a corrective. As far as constitutional universality or dual sovereignty goes, I think it is fair to say that constitutional rights (such as a right to truth which I am proposing) devised in the U.S. do often find their way into international law, and with regard to the diverse cultures argument, I would think "truth" is about as universal as "theft."

  13. #93
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi Tom,

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom OC View Post
    It's agreed that truth, like perception, is relative, but as Mary Mapes' book, Truth and Duty, points out, there are such things as facts and fact-checking which media wonks hype as the "truth to power" ideology.
    Good point. As far as I am concerned, the point of no return is reached when the logic of "I give you the TRUTH, facts are irrelevant" is dominant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom OC View Post
    I'm not suggesting that the government step in any more than necessary to prosecute liars and distorters, and am actually recommending civil not criminal penalties against the media as a corrective.
    That makes sense to me - I would far rather see civil liability for spreading "untruth" via bogus "facts".

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom OC View Post
    As far as constitutional universality or dual sovereignty goes, I think it is fair to say that constitutional rights (such as a right to truth which I am proposing) devised in the U.S. do often find their way into international law, and with regard to the diverse cultures argument, I would think "truth" is about as universal as "theft."
    On your first point, I would have to say "maybe" and,even if it does make it into international law, that frequently is not applied in other countries (Saudi Arabia anyone?). US Constitutional rights are, in the end, only valid within the US' jurisdiction and, even there, historically there have been many cases of organizational avoidance of them.

    On "truth" being as universal as "theft" - no way ! "Theft" is a linguistic term that has a specific referent, while "Truth" does not have a specific referent, being a second order linguistic term (it refers to the observational validity of other referents and/or systems of referents). We can only speak of "Truth" within a system of meaning and/or experience (a classic problem in mysticism BTW).

    Where we do have some overlap with "theft" is in the area of a "truth claim" of a specific referent. In effect, we can say that a statement with a concrete referent might be amenable to having its truth claims checked and refuted - e.g. the truth claim of a statement such as "by January 1st, 2008, over 3000 US military personelle had been killed in Iraq". This form of a truth claim can be tested, unlike the truth claim in a statement such as "We went into Iraq to destroy weapons of mass destruction and make life better for Iraqis" (how can you test past motives?), "Democracy is the best political system" (how are you defining "best"?), or "There is no God but God" (how can you formulate a testable hypothesis outside of a specific system?).
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  14. #94
    Council Member BILL's Avatar
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    Default Paradigm Check

    Something I thought might be implied in this Question, or alluded to, is that the al Qaed/Insurgent Internet Jihadist are not a real threat.

    "4. You're invited to provide corroborating evidence from objective sources that supports your case that Jihadist Web sites are conducting Cyber warfare activities in 3rd world nations."

    If that is an assumption with in the 'Internet Jihadist Paradigm', I would like to try and dissuade you of that hypothesis.

    While the Iran Nuclear problem is a serious security problem, we are facing other ( and I believe bigger threat ) serious and more immediate threats.

    The technology to take down the Internet world wide is available and deployed. Only the will is missing.

    The terrorist are at most 3 years or less from being able to deploy it.

    http://warintel.blogspot.com/2007/08...l-harbour.html

    The article has been vetted by Civilian experts, "spot on"....

    The only defense I am aware of is an Independent world wide "intra net",
    for the Military, maybe satlite deployed.

    There are eneties out there that have attacked the Internet, by accident,
    Nine of the internet's 13 "root DNS" servers have been taken out. ( click LONG link above for details )

    There are eneties out there that are suspected to have the ability to take out the WWW NOW, RBN.

    The Internet probally would survive an Nuclear attack its not so sure it would survive an all out DDos attack.

    I'm sure your all aware of the effects that would have the world markets and economy.

    Gerald
    Current "Paradigm Intel" forecasts the Bot nets start spam verbal phone calls,
    probably most related to "aural robot sex" ( a new spin on Phone sex, they call you and talk dirty and charge to keep talking to smarter bots, the bots "talk"...( also recruiting suicide bombers and fund raising world wide, for the terrorists )
    Last edited by BILL; 01-03-2008 at 06:25 AM.

  15. #95
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    BILL,

    I know I don't know much about this Cyber Warfare stuff. I really wish I had a little more knowledge about computer mediated conflict. I guess what you're saying is that we're about three years away from terrorist entities having the capability to take down the Internet. So what would an attack like that look like? Is it simple violence of oppression or something like that the reason for taking out the Internet? I've heard that there might be some literature out there by Eberschloe, Vernton, Lewis, and others discussing possible "Cyber Pearl Harbor" scenarios. It would be great if we had some military capability like the Air Force or civilian capability to fight cyber terrorism like the NSA. Wouldn't it be great if the Department of Homeland Security promoted something like an emergency support functions for cyber events?

    BILL, you know that if the eastern seaboard central switching office for almost all Verizon in New Yorks primary region was destroyed in something like 9/11 the entire Internet might collapse. In fact it might take months to get that facility back up and running. I wonder how long it would take to get the stock exchange back up and running through a primary data hub that had been blown up almost completely?

    I wonder what a cyber attack would look like. Maybe if there were millions of bots out there capable of attacking simultaneously it might look like a storm. And when they fired up on December 29th I wonder what the entire effect might be? Gee what if a foreign government like China hacked the pentagon daily and ran all of their communications through Israel, Taiwan, Thailand, and other pseudo friendly nations?

    If we only could find experts that had touched hundreds of thousands of sites on the Internet or been involved in building large chunks of the Internet. Maybe we could have a reasonable discussion about risk and less hair on fire fear that something might NOT happen. Don't you think prognastications of specific time frames are going to be difficult to back up when they've been occuring since 1968? Did you know that there is a low speed wireless network capable of handling massive amounts of data and is highly redundant and nobody even realizes it exists. It is the ham radio packet radio network. If a bunch of guys with soldering irons and tin hats built something like that I wonder what the telephone companies and military have built?

    Bill, do tell us more.
    Sam Liles
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  16. #96
    Council Member BILL's Avatar
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    Default I share your sentiments but not you Optimism.

    I share your sentiments but not your Optimism.


    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    BILL,

    I know I don't know much about this Cyber Warfare stuff. I really wish I had a little more knowledge about computer mediated conflict. I guess what you're saying is that we're about three years away from terrorist entities having the capability to take down the Internet. So what would an attack like that look like?

    "Server NOT found"
    "Service timed Out"
    For weeks or months?



    Is it simple violence of oppression or something like that the reason for taking out the Internet? I've heard that there might be some literature out there by Eberschloe, Vernton, Lewis, and others discussing possible "Cyber Pearl Harbor" scenarios.

    Please share?

    It would be great if we had some military capability like the Air Force or civilian capability to fight cyber terrorism like the NSA. Wouldn't it be great if the Department of Homeland Security promoted something like an emergency support functions for cyber events?

    My fear is this could be a replay of NYC 911 where the Emergency support functions are in the center of the attack/building. The question becomes how you stop the flood from the bot net? A small hint?

    BILL, you know that if the eastern seaboard central switching office for almost all Verizon in New Yorks primary region was destroyed in something like 9/11 the entire Internet might collapse. In fact it might take months to get that facility back up and running. I wonder how long it would take to get the stock exchange back up and running through a primary data hub that had been blown up almost completely?

    I understand if its blown up, its all backed up and just has to be reloaded to a Internet connection, but what if the Internet connection is out, the data remains 'backed up'?

    I wonder what a cyber attack would look like. Maybe if there were millions of bots out there capable of attacking simultaneously it might look like a storm. And when they fired up on December 29th I wonder what the entire effect might be? Gee what if a foreign government like China hacked the pentagon daily and ran all of their communications through Israel, Taiwan, Thailand, and other pseudo friendly nations?

    I understand how to deal with that particular situation, but what do you do if there is no connection. If you are able to counter attack with your own bots on some connections, on their nodes, it just subtracts connections and further pushes towards a total collapse, When restarted will the attack restart?
    And the attack can come from anywhere in the world from unprotected, non-updated computers.


    If we only could find experts that had touched hundreds of thousands of sites on the Internet or been involved in building large chunks of the Internet. Maybe we could have a reasonable discussion about risk and less hair on fire fear that something might NOT happen.

    I'm not an expert, and know the Army built large chunks of it, it seemed worth mentioning in this age of asymmetrical warfare.


    Don't you think prognastications of specific time frames are going to be difficult to back up when they've been occuring since 1968?

    I based the time frame on how long it would take me to do it.
    Given the funding.

    Did you know that there is a low speed wireless network capable of handling massive amounts of data and is highly redundant and nobody even realizes it exists.

    No I did not know that. A second Internet, not dependent on the first Internet, and without attack vectors from the first Internet?

    It is the ham radio packet radio network. If a bunch of guys with soldering irons and tin hats built something like that I wonder what the telephone companies and military have built?

    They are part of and tied into and rely on the Internet. The only defense I see or will talk about publicly is an independent "Intra net" a second Internet.

    Thanks for the reply, excellent points.
    Bill



    Bill, do tell us more.
    Last edited by BILL; 01-03-2008 at 08:55 AM.

  17. #97
    Council Member BILL's Avatar
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    Default New hacker trainer: New threat




    36 downloads, trainees?

    Hacker Trainers name "Kasper"
    They are using Rats now, RATs are remote administration programs that have been embedded into an unsuspecting victim's computer. This is the most dangerous of all hacking tools as it allows complete and total control of the infected computer.
    And "MultiDropper-NF"

    We are pursuing.
    From Arabic forum.

    B

    We tried to report additional Intel on this to the CIA, AND THEIR FORM still isn't working.
    We typed in email name and text and copied URLs. all was rejected, note it says in red the Message field won't be cleared, it was.




    .
    Last edited by BILL; 01-04-2008 at 08:44 AM.

  18. #98
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    Default

    Islamic Forum devoted to hacking:

    Partial contents: ( links removed )

    # Section applications programmes encrypted encryption special versions special
    # مــــنــــتـــدى اخــــتــــراق الايــــمـــيـــل Forum penetrate email
    #

    * قـسـم خــــاص لأســئــلـــة الأعــضـــاء واسـتـفـسـاراـتـهـم حـــول الاخـــتـــراق A special section of questions and requests for information about members penetration

    # مــــنــــتــــدى اخــــتـــراق الاجـــهـــزة Forum penetrating devices
    #

    * قـسـم خــــاص لأســئــلـــة الأعــضـــاء واسـتـفـسـاراـتـهـم حـــول الاخـــتـــراق A special section of questions and requests for information about members penetration
    * الـبـرامـج الـــمــشـــفــرة والــحـــصـــريــة Encrypted programmes and exclusive

    # مــــنـــتــــدى اخـــتـــراق الــمـــواقع والـــمــنـــتـــديـــات Forum penetrate sites and forums
    #

    * قـسـم خــــاص لأســئــلـــة الأعــضـــاء واسـتـفـسـاراـتـهـم حـــول الاخـــتـــراق A special section of questions and requests for information about members penetration
    * ::Local Root Exploit :: :: Local Root Exploit::

    # قــســـم أخـــتــــراق شــبــكـــات الــويــرلــــس & LAN Section penetrate networks Aloyrls & LAN
    # مــنـــتــدى انـــــجــــازات الـــهـــكر Forum achievements Alhecr
    #

    * قسم أدوات و اندكسات الاختراق Tools section and penetration Andquisat
    * مكتبة الثغرات Library gaps

    # مـــنــــتـــــدى اخـــــتــــراق الـــــجــــوال Forum mobile penetration
    # مـــنـــتـــدى اخــــتــــراق الـــمحـــادثـــة Forum penetrate conversation
    # منتدى تعليم الهكر Education Forum Alhecr
    # قسم الدورات الاحترافية Section professional courses
    # قسم تعليم الاختراق بالفيديو Education Section breakthrough video
    # قسم E-book Section E-book
    #

    * قسم الطلبات Section applications

    # مـــنــــتـــــدى الـــــفـــايــــروســــات Forum VIRUSES


    The West has an advantage, in technological abilities, an attempt to close this gap, with forums like this.

    Bill



    From hacked site:


    .
    Last edited by BILL; 01-05-2008 at 09:33 PM.

  19. #99
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    Default Iw

    I want to dip my toe into this pool in a very limited way. I am a Navy Reserve CPO and have some interest in this field. My take is that perception management is but one part of an overall strategy to bring down the West. They use a distributed open source warefare model that the West will find very difficult to emulate. We seem to be at a point where we cannot go beyond looking to a central authority (Government Agencies like EPA, the Supreme Court, Operations that require deniability, etc) to adjudicate problems, authorize "hunting liscenses" and so forth. This will necissarily make any attempt to create a flexible, dynamic IW effort lugubrious and prone to, at best, defensive measures.

    IW including cyber warfare will exist in an area the US has been reluctant to involve itsel in such as plausible deniability, independent and interdependent teams with alot of independence and seizing control through bots of many platforms. This is a threat we currently face and will face more in the future (see Russian Business Network).

    I do not think we can manage perception but can manage the strength of the message getting out about what the jihadis really are about, their threat to us and how they manage our perceptions of them. If you take my first statement about open source warfare and apply it to perception management to me combined civilian network and DOD efforts may work. Using the German General Staff concept of "Marching Orders" that of giving general goals to be met and leaving the meeting of them to the teams. However, if we do not get beyond the central authority model I don't think we will have much success. I think the USAF new IW command will fizzle and fizzle badly because of this problem.

    I welcome your comments and the opportunity to at least get my muddled thoughts on this subject in some kind of order.

  20. #100
    Council Member BILL's Avatar
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    Default One approach...

    Excellent analysis:

    Yes as I understand it, it requires an order/ok from Bush to take down a server, and that kind of offensive is forming, ON THEIR SIDE, I could be wrong, and hope I am.

    There doesn't seem to be any rules for engagement for Gov, MIL, NAV, etc.?

    The civilian sector lacks organization, direction and instruction..
    AND FUNDING, This effort currently runs us about $12,000 out of pocket, all work is pro-bono.

    While it is not my intention to tell anybody how to do this, we wanted to show what the civilians have done and are doing.

    A Russian hacking team just announced placing keyloggers on some terrorist PC's. And exposed the Porno visits of the Jaddiees.

    Civilians provide deniability but run the risk of prosecution without a letter of Marq, all our limits are governed by, directed by CI paradigm, nothing illegal, of course we have the potential of developing those capabilities, but the risk of prosecution constrains us.

    If al Qaeda can manage perception, I think USA is also capable of same.
    They have managed to convince the Ummah that all the insurgent DEAD, is GOOD....Martyrs. Dying = winning. ???
    The value of OSINT may not be fully appreciated.


    Our OSINT picked up the "Arabic Hacker" Trainer.
    Some civilian sectors are well versed in OSINT, Competitive Intelligence rely on it.
    Off the top of my head, some of the fundamental methods we use, in general.


    Basic: Up todate bio info , facts, etc, culled from OSINT and filed.

    Analyzing if Target is in deception mode.
    These usually will become apparent as a linear, in depth paradigm is developed, and as the incident/action/writing deviates from the paradigm. Lies will appear as a spike on the paradigm model, the question becomes 'is it a paradigm shift' or 'deception'. the test is the future, the News/blogs/forums.Did it happen like the target says or not, paradigm shift indicator if it checks out, or possible deception if its false. The value is you know something different is going on, and can analyze it.
    Of course we deal with public reports related to the target.

    One can track 'talk' vs 'actions', And develop a pattern. Major changes in the pattern can point to paradigm shifts which can be useful in forecasting.

    One can track what they say they are going to do vs what happens ( check the news a month later see if it happened; or the appropriate time frame ). Looking for patterns which can reveal deception, or if 'it ' continues a shift indicator.

    Collecting Geographic Intel ( everything about a Geographic area/state/town ) also can reveal links/connections.


    Eventually you have a Paradigm for the target, a history, understanding, knowledge of target and idiosyncrasies.

    With our paradigm we start to measure action, statements, reports against the paradigm.

    We call this Paradigm Intelligence. A long form of inductive reasoning, confirmed by repetition.
    Then we we check items against the Paradigm mostly deductive reasoning/logic.

    Ontological problem with ' Paradigm Intel ' is its seminal fault "Just because you can forecast actions doesn't mean you understand whats going on." ( Example: Ptolemy and his theory of the planets, Earth-centered Ptolemaic system, LOOPING Planets. He could forecast position of the planets, but his understanding of the system was very wrong.)

    While you forecast with Paradigm Intel, one can have multiple hypothesis of the cause of the "action at a distance",

    Utilizing this method it is possible to get a look inside a closed cell.( This link will give you some background and context, On that page click on the "Internet Anthropologist Link, we were able to peak into the USA and Taliban closed cells/Paradigm, both attempting to deceive the other ).

    Paradigm Intel is good a developing alternate hypothesis, and testing them.
    A useful tool in the arena of forecasting asymmetrical threats in war.

    CONTEXT and Cultural familiarity: Can be definitive also.
    Patki news services tend to down play number of Taliban or al Qaeda killed and over state the number of Patki troops dead. Often they will state total number deaths, with no break down between insurgent and government troops. And the tend to use the word "dead " rather than "killed". As one denotes facts, dead, while the other denotes actions, killed.Patki news semantics are very exacting and aim for neutrality as they consider all killed on both sides as Pakistanis first and government or insurgents second.
    There is a taste of killing your enemy without offending their/our culture.
    If the KIA are related to as "Killed" This can be a message the ummah hear that others may miss.
    The use of the term "Killed" instead of "dead" is meant to be offensive to the ones killled in this instance.
    Coupling OSINT with sub-rosa investigations and social engineering also give an options for checking details.


    We set up a baby feed for the "cyber troops", everything they need, and fully customizable, by user on anything. The feeds are supplied by 1,000 spider bots per Trooper, using as many or few as they need, that search the Internet 24/7 and feed it to the troop, so they have a real time ( Internet ) knowledge ( News, blogs,forums,groups,docs,excel, all translated ) of their arena.

    Knowledge in depth, historical and current.

    And sets up a frame work for a 'social change engine' and propaganda ops.


    A Question we had to address was how to run propaganda with out interfering with any 'OFFICIAL' Ops.
    We found a solution on a Pakti forum:
    Our efforts have been guided by Pakti Intelligence manual .
    "Psychological warfare is an art adopted to defeat the enemy's will to fight. It predominantly aims to win the battle before it starts. It is aimed at convincing the enemy that:-
    ( Our operations have been designed around these three concepts )
    a. Your equipment and war assets are obsolete. ck5 shoulder fired rocket, martyr maker
    b. You are being commanded by inefficient commanders. new leader of al Qaeda.
    c. Your basic human rights are being suppressed." suicide bombers dance, for al Qaeda

    One person on a forum can affect morale of the Jahiddi community. We have.

    This is "our" version of a "Info War" cyber Troop,
    And we have been running this for around a Year,

    Our concept includes other "cyber troops" that are not 'Info war' oriented but performing other duties.

    Its one concept of a Cyber Warrior..

    Bill & Gerald
    Last edited by BILL; 01-08-2008 at 10:27 PM.

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