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  1. #1
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default The British Indian Army

    omarali50,

    I have been fascinated by the British Indian Army, which is reflected in a number of books on the shelves and following the UK-based Indian Military History Society, with a superb journal:http://durbaronline.co.uk/index.html

    You referred in part to:
    Charles Chenevix Trench an Indian Army British Officer and a respectable military historian
    In 2009 Red Rat posted:
    The Frontier Scouts by Charles Chenevix Trench is out of print but highly recommended.
    In 2007 I posted this:
    Three books on the Indian Army and mindful of the Imperial era battleground of the North West Frontier re-appearing:

    The Indian Army and the King's Enemies 1900-1947, by Charles Chenevix Trench (pub. Thames & Hudson 1988 in hardback)

    The Frontier Scouts (the NW Fontier locally recruited units) by Charles Chenevix Trench (pub. Jonathan Cape 1985 in hardback)

    A Matter of Honour: An account of the Indian Army, its officers and men, by Philip Mason (pub. Penguin Books 1974)

    I've not checked Amazon for current availability and they maybe in a very good library.
    The legacy of this remarkable army lives on. Their performance in the World Wars has led to some interest here. The MoD has even considered creating a Sikh Regiment, then rejecting it last year. Even if very much smaller the Gurkhas remain part of the British Army (vastly outnumbered by those who serve in the Indian Army).
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 12-26-2018 at 07:05 PM.
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    The British Indian army is a fascinating topic of study. And still relevant, because the Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi armies are still working on the same template (Indian more than Pakistani. I am not sure what category BD falls into now). And it is not a bad template. e.g. It allows for a narrow elite to utilize the talents of a much larger population, who do not necessarily share all the ideological quirks of the elite, but who are offered a very fair and transparent bargain: you do your duty with loyalty and courage, we will take care of you with fairness and sensible leadership. At least, that is the ideal. It did not always work, but that it worked so well is still amazing.

    I personally think a lot of it (like a lot of history) was contingency and luck. Amazing characters like the Lawrence brothers, Abbot, Jacobs and so many more...no wonder we don't tire of reading about it

    Many years ago, I wrote a review of "soldier sahibs" (I may not hold all these opinions now ) once that I will paste below:

    Soldier Sahibs is an old-fashioned and unapologetically imperialist book. And writer Charles Allen makes sure you know what you are getting into by giving it the flagrantly politically incorrect subtitle: The Daring Adventurers Who Tamed India's Northwest Frontier. But imperialist does not necessarily mean inaccurate and Allen has taken a good deal of trouble to get his facts right. The book claims to tell "The astonishing story of a brotherhood of young men who together laid claim to the most notorious frontier in the world, India's North-West Frontier, which today forms the volatile boundary between Pakistan and Afghanistan."

    The men in question include John Nicholson, Harry Lumsden (founder of the Guides), Herbert Edwardes, William Hodson, James Abbot and Neville Chamberlain. Protgs of Sir Henry Lawrence, these men were responsible for laying the foundations of British rule in the Punjab and the Northwest Frontier. The author's intent is to tell the story of these young men and through their adventures, give the reader an idea of how the British conquered - or, as he would prefer, "pacified" - the 'wild' Northwest Frontier of India.
    But while Soldier Sahibs gives a very readable account of the adventures of these (surprisingly) young men, it is not possible to piece together the broader history of those times from his book. Why the British were here in the first place and what were the factors that made a small island in Europe more powerful than any kingdom in India do not form any part of Allen's concerns. Nor does he waste much time explaining the situation in the Punjab or of the East India Company at that time. In fact, the author does not even provide a map of the vast area over which his protagonists established their rule. If you are totally at sea about those times, then you may have to read a few other books to fully appreciate the goings-on in this one. But if you are one of those enthusiasts who cannot get enough of the Raj, the mutiny and all that jazz, then you will definitely enjoy this book. Its written in authentic 'Flashman' style, with wit and verve and loads of 'local color'.
    The English heroes may appear larger than life but by all accounts some of them indeed were larger than life. And being Englishmen, they left us a veritable storehouse of laconic and understated wisecracks. These include Nicholson walking into the mess to tell his fellow officers: "I am sorry gentlemen, to have kept you waiting for your dinner, but I have been hanging your cooks." (The cooks had apparently poisoned the food but were detected and hanged, and dinner was served half an hour late).
    Though Nicholson gets the most lines in the book, the stories of Edwardes of Peshawar and Bannu and Abbot of Abbotabad are also told in some detail. William Hodson, the villain who executed Bahadur Shah Zafar's sons, also gets a sympathetic hearing. We are told surprisingly little about Sir Henry Lawrence, who is supposedly the godfather of this fraternity. And it is not always clear why certain officer's lives are described in detail and others get only cursory mention. Lack or availability of sources may be the explanation for that .
    In these times, it is impossible to read such a book and not look for parallels with the current efforts at "pacifying" Afghanistan. But these British adventurers and their peculiar code of life are poles apart from the westerners who are now coming to bring us into the civilised world. Occasionally, Madison Avenue will try to create a suitable heroic image for some American colonel or diplomat but the substance of this new empire is very different from the last one and so are its agents.
    Nicholson and company may have been bigoted, male chauvinist psychopaths, yet they also had undoubted personal courage and their own peculiar brand of love of justice. In the Pakhtuns and the Punjabis, they found not just enemies, but also friends and fellow adventurers. It is fashionable these days to describe their local supporters as 'traitors' who took the side of a 'foreign power'. But to the Sikhs, Punjabi Muslims and Pakhtuns who fought under Nicholson to reconquer Delhi, the capital was was as much a foreign power as the British. And these British officers had always respected their honour and treated them fairly. They provided an administration that was in many ways a big improvement over the 'locals' they had replaced. In fact, it would not be remiss to say that the Punjabis and Pakhtuns who fought for the British were men of higher character and personal courage than almost any of their current detractors. Many things have improved since Nicholson rode across the plains of the Punjab blowing mutineers from canons but it is hard to avoid the suspicion that some things have also deteriorated.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 01-07-2017 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Fix quote

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    Moreman's book on Frontier warfare is good, but tough to find for under $120. Sir Andrew Skeen's Frontier classic, "Passing It On," was reprinted a couple years ago under a different title. And Field Marshal Slim's "Unofficial History" is a gem. Far less well known than "Defeat Into Victory," it's a collection of stories from his time as an Indian Army officer in the interwar years.

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    Default Bravo for the pointers

    Cited in sections:
    Quote Originally Posted by Granite_State View Post
    Moreman's book on Frontier warfare is good, but tough to find for under $120.
    A new title to me,'The Army in India and the Development of Frontier Warfare, 1849-1947' so I looked for details as it was published in 1998. Currently priced at US$205 or E-book US$159 on the publishers US website entry:http://www.palgrave.com/us/book/9780312217037

    There is a free 25 pg copy of the opening parts and the entire introduction on:https://secure.palgraveconnect.com/p.../9780230374621

    Three reviews here:https://www.amazon.com/Development-F.../dp/031221703X or one in the UK:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Development.../dp/0333695410

    One chapter 'Development of Frontier Warfare 1914-39' is available for free on:http://www.king-emperor.com/Frontier...1914-1939.html

    Sir Andrew Skeen's Frontier classic, "Passing It On," was reprinted a couple years ago under a different title.
    Which is available for free via:http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/Skeen.pdf

    Missed this one entirely, although long ago I read 'Defeat into Victory' and a biography:
    And Field Marshal Slim's "Unofficial History" is a gem. Far less well known than "Defeat Into Victory," it's a collection of stories from his time as an Indian Army officer in the interwar years.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 01-07-2017 at 11:41 AM. Reason: 171v
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    Default Keeping a balance

    The British Indian Army was not always a happy place nor an effective combat force. The "Indian Mutiny" notably, albeit when not under Crown control. See:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=5534

    A small number of mutinies afterwards, such as one IIRC in Singapore in 1916 and the WW2 defections after surrendering to the Japanese to an ostensibly nationalist Indian National Army.

    It performed well in very difficult circumstances in France in 1914-1915, through the winter; less well - with some newly formed units - in Malaya when the Japanese landed in 1941. The WW2 4th Indian Infantry Division, earned plaudits:
    Field Marshal Lord Wavell wrote: "The fame of this Division will surely go down as one of the greatest fighting formations in military history,..... Das wrote also: "Even beyond its fighting reputation, it will be remembered for the spirit of mutual trust and fellowship maintained between all ranks coming from so many different races and creeds"
    Link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_In...vision_(India)
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 01-09-2017 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Add 1st link
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    The British Indian Army was not always a happy place nor an effective combat force. The "Indian Mutiny" notably, albeit when not under Crown control; a small number of mutinies afterwards, such as one IIRC in Singapore in 1916 and the WW2 defections after surrendering to the Japanese to an ostensibly nationalist Indian National Army.

    It performed well in very difficult circumstances in France in 1914-1915, through the winter; less well - with some newly formed units - in Malaya when the Japanese landed in 1941. The WW2 4th Indian Infantry Division, earned plaudits:
    Link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_In...vision_(India)
    Not always, but usually good enuff for guvmint work.
    It is true that the more flamboyant characters (and the tougher victories) were in the EIC army days; the British Indian army was relatively conservative: steady and able to get the basics done without being spectacular... Still, they COULD get it done, even against European powers (they were almost always able to get it done against any non-European power). And while there were a few mutinies as you mention, these were very rare and exceptional events, while there were many examples of units fighting well, even against overwhelming odds (e.g. the Sikhs at SaragaRhi). Though other than Slim's campaign in Burma, there is no example I can think off the top of my head where they conducted a really outstanding large scale offensive campaign. So yes, they were not the German (or the Soviet) army, but they were generally reliable.
    I have heard the argument that at least in the 20th century the British Indian army (or even the British army for that matter) lacked offensive elan at the higher levels. And that this carried on to their daughter armies. Actually there are a couple of examples of initiative and elan in the Kashmir war of 1948 (especially General Cariappa's attack to capture Kargil, operation Bison) but in the larger 1965 war both the Pakistani and Indian armies proved inept at large scale operations. In the 1971 war the Indian army's conquest of East Pakistan was spectacular (especially General Sagat Singh's performance in command of 4 corps) but it was also made easier by Niazi's weakness and the total support of the local population against a relatively demoralized and professionally compromised Pakistani army. On the Western front, neither side did much of note (General Iftikhar Janjua's capture of Chamb being a relative exception).

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    Credit for operation Bison may go to General Thimaya more than General Carriapa.. Better informed Indian commentators can correct me.

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    Default Field Marshal Slim's "Unofficial History" is a gem

    Cited in part:
    Quote Originally Posted by Granite_State View Post
    And Field Marshal Slim's "Unofficial History" is a gem. Far less well known than "Defeat Into Victory," it's a collection of stories from his time as an Indian Army officer in the interwar years.
    Tidying up today on command I found an article 'Student's Interlude' on a punitive raid in Malakand in 1923 by Slim, in British Army Review (Spring 2009) and the Editor added:
    ...the chapter above is more than sufficient encouragement for all soldiers to want their own copy. He covers episodes from the Great War (Gallipoli and Iraq), IS in India, divisional and brigade command in Abbysinia, Iraq and Persia as well as wonderfully drawn vignettes from his service (not Burma-India)'.
    Excellent reviews on:https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Sli...l+history+slim

    Several versions in the USA, just the latest edition linked:https://www.amazon.com/Slim-Unoffici...l+history+slim

    I must get a copy.
    davidbfpo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granite_State View Post
    Moreman's book on Frontier warfare is good, but tough to find for under $120.
    This classic, originally a KIngs War Studies PhD is available (35Mb) for free via:https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/portal/en/...625a1926).html
    davidbfpo

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