Dumped German wartime munitions

[Stan]

The Baltic timebomb
http://www.citypaper.ee/paper/articles/2922/

What a load of malarkey ! To this day only the USG to the tune of 2.7 million has been here, invested and done just that, perform.

Their shipping lanes are plugged and they want public attention without the cost of cleaning up (their mess). Time to check in folks and leave your cash at the door.

What about all the friggin' UXO on the ground ?

Gotta love an expert

German and Scandinavian experts are warning of an environmental catastrophe in the Baltic, as thousands of tons of ammunition dumped after the Second World War begin to wash up on shorelines, the newspaper The Scotsman reports. Last year, some 6,000 pounds of bombs were fished up by trawlers. The paper reported that many crew members suffered serious burns as a result.

The Scottish paper reported that seismologists in several countries have charted underground blasts in the past two years as the explosives shift, become ever more unstable and finally detonate. Nothing that the most dangerous elements are dumped casks of Tabun—a deadly nerve agent which Hitler's scientists developed but never used on the battlefield. U.S. forces charged with ridding post-war Germany of its mighty unspent arsenal logged half a million barrels of Tabun being dumped in the sea in 1945 and 1946. Which means, say experts, the real figure is probably much higher.

This subject has long been an area of concern for countries surrounding the Baltic Sea, and numerous clean-up operations have been successfully mounted. Most agree, however, that it would be impossible to rid the sea of all the war’s detritus. The subject, having been covered in depth (but not yet ad nauseum), is certainly a welcome one. If coverage in the western press brings attention and funding for cleanup, that can only be a good thing.

[marct]

Hi Stan,

That is, unfortunately, typical. Take a look at the guilt trip being played by the left wing media over foreign aid expenditures! Personally, I think it's about time for Germany to pay for cleaning up their left overs from WW II.

Marc

[goesh]

- and here I thought I was going to find a real bargain on Mauser ammo but I end up ducking tripe thrown at the military/America, yet again

[Stan]

Actually, this time they are Russian munitions !

One should be extremely careful when contracting for building supplies. Specifically sand, and more importantly, where that sand came from.

Over the last 10-day period, folks from Tallinn to private residences in Nõmme have called the 112 center reporting they have large UXO in their construction sites and/or yards.

Mere coincidence ? Hardly. Turns out the same construction company that was excavating Sand in Saku County was also providing the same sand to its customers throughout Estonia. On 25 September, seven artillery projectiles were reported and subsequently removed from four different sand excavation sites in Saku County. Following those finds, EOD technicians performed a mechanical sweep uncovering 43 more projectiles. Historical documents indicate that these sites in Saku were former Red Army ammunition dumps.

The UXOs found in Estonia are largely a direct result of combat actions during World War II. Russian and German forces and their battle lines frequently changed during the war. As a result, each side in the conflict buried large caches of ordnance. Such caches are found on a routine basis during planned de-mining/excavations as well as new construction projects, both in the city as well as the countryside. Estimates of densities number in the hundreds of thousands based upon excavations as well as data recordings conducted by Estonian de-mining teams.

It has been established that Estonia’s Männiku Forest (six kilometers south of Tallinn) contains the third largest concentration of discovered and recorded UXO. During a one-week clearance operation, de-miners removed more than 240 mines and 1,280 UXO.

Between 1 January and 30 September 2007, more than 5,200 UXO have been cleared and destroyed. Estonia’s highest recorded year was 1997, with more than 10,000 UXO cleared following a USG Humanitarian De-mining training and equipment donation program.

Under Estonian law, a UXO is classified as being 20mm or larger in diameter and containing explosives. Training rounds and empty projectiles are not included.

A bit of press coverage here

[oakfox]

... Personally, I think it's about time for Germany to pay for cleaning up their left overs from WW II.

Marc

I am assuming you suggest the Brits and Americans pay for their stuff as well (which may be the vast majority of left over ordonance) ?

[Uboat509]

I am assuming you suggest the Brits and Americans pay for their stuff as well (which may be the vast majority of left over ordonance) ?

What are you basing that claim on?



SFC W

[Stan]

I am assuming you suggest the Brits and Americans pay for their stuff as well (which may be the vast majority of left over ordonance) ?

Greetings and Welcome to the SWC, Oakfox !

We are still talking about the Baltic Sea and the Baltic States...Correct ?

I have statistics from 92 to present that otherwise fully dispute this post. More than 44,450.00 UXO have been cleared and destroyed to date. Of that amount, less than 50 each were of British origin dating back to the early 1920s, when Estonians purchased and employed British ordnance.

As a common courtesy to our members...
Please introduce yourself here.

Regards, Stan

[Stan]

For almost 50 years chemical weapons from two World Wars have been lying at the bottom of the Baltic Sea...Authorities deny they are a danger...

In 1961, life-threatening chemical weapons left over from World War I and World War II, were dumped in the Baltic Sea just eight kilometers (five miles) from the shoreline of the German town of Lübeck.

Over the past 47 years bottles containing 20,000 liters (5,283 gallons) of chloric gas, laughing gas and other poisonous chemicals have been pushed around by underwater currents at the bottom of the sea, making the exact current location of the bottles anyone's guess.

Contesting the facts
The Süddeutsche Zeitung paper announced Friday, Feb. 1, that it is in possession of official papers that document the dumping. The paper also revealed that the authorities responsible have attempted to cover up the dumping.

Mission deny everything
The Department of Transport has said that there is no proof or documentation of any dumping of chemical ammunition in the Lübeck Bay. By classifying the gasses in question as "chemicals" instead of "chemical ammunition," the department has legally avoided having to document or declare the dumping.

More at the link

[AdamG]

Stan,
Have you read Webster's book?
http://www.amazon.com/Aftermath-Remn.../dp/067975153X

I can remember reading his article in Smithsonian, where the French Department of Mines was wrapping recovered WWI 75mm chemical shells in plastic like tootsie rolls, burying them on the beach at load tide and then waiting for high tide to blow them in place.

[Stan]

Hey Adam !

Stan,
Have you read Webster's book?
http://www.amazon.com/Aftermath-Remn.../dp/067975153X

I can remember reading his article in Smithsonian, where the French Department of Mines was wrapping recovered WWI 75mm chemical shells in plastic like tootsie rolls, burying them on the beach at load tide and then waiting for high tide to blow them in place.

Thanks for the book link.

We normally try and destroy larger UXO under water. This method precludes the need for 3 or 400 meters of land and sliences the detonation. It also keeps the tree huggers away

I'm certain that nowadays destroying chemical munitions in the Baltic Sea is somewhat prohibited, and Green Peace would certainly come a callin'

Regards, Stan