Memetics in the battle of ideas?

[JD]

I am currently investigating the concept of 'fighting ideas with ideas' as part of multi-dimensional manoevre. I am trying to find a systematic framework to organise such a campaign and this lead me to memtics. Has anybody applied memetics to military operations and is it a valid concept? Alternatively, are there any other deisciplines that may be applicable. Given the importance of countering dangerous beleifs I am surprised by the lack on information in this area.

JD

[marct]

Hi JD,

I haven't come across anything directly related to the military, but you might find Mutation, Selection, And Vertical Transmission Of Theistic Memes In Religious Canons by John D. Gottsch useful. I've applied memetics in a couple of areas and, on the whole, it can be valid but it is not that predictive. In order to get predictive validity, you need an incredible amount of environmental information. The Journal of Memetics (now defunct) is still the best general site. Their links page is excellent.

If you have anything written, I would be happy to look at it .

Marc

[Stan]

Given the importance of countering dangerous beleifs I am surprised by the lack on information in this area.

JD

Hi JD and welcome to the forum !
I found your post extremely interesting and so here I am

Sorry for condensing your post, but just wanted a little clarification regarding the last sentence.

I've worked in 3rd world countries for most of my 23-year Army career. I managed to get along with almost everybody by trying to comprehend the other's beliefs and manurisms, then using that understanding while performing my missions. One of my former bosses thought that was a gift I had at my finger tips. Perhaps it was/is.

However, I've never tried to counter said beliefs. Would countering an individual's deep rooted beliefs be beneficial ? If so, in what way ?

Marc, please feel free to step on in

Regards, Stan

[marct]

Hi Stan,

Marc, please feel free to step on in

Well, if I'm reading JDs intent correctly, then he's not talking about stompin' other peoples' beliefs so much as, hmm how to phrase this? - ah - "encouraging them to select a memetic complex that, while part of their culture, is more amenable to western concepts" .

Seriously, memetics isn't really cultural engineering, although it can be used that way (poorly!). Basically, it's looking at specific memes and meme complexes that create effects and replacing them with others that create other effects. BTW, "meme" a self-replicating piece of information; "meme complex" a collection of memes that is symbiotically related and mutually reinforcing.

JD, part of the reason why using memetics in a military setting would, IMO, be so hard is that it requires a certain amount of "immunization" on the part of the users and the military have heir own, very strong, meme complexes. The process of immunization has a tendency to dislodge many current memes as well as protect against further "infections" (yeah, I'm using he mind virus model here). This can be very counter productive to the military, although I think that if any military environment can accept it, it would be a COIN fight.

Marc

[Stan]

Hi Stan,

Well, if I'm reading JDs intent correctly, then he's not talking about stompin' other peoples' beliefs so much as, hmm how to phrase this? - ah - "encouraging them to select a memetic complex that, while part of their culture, is more amenable to western concepts" .

Seriously, memetics isn't really cultural engineering, although it can be used that way (poorly!). Basically, it's looking at specific memes and meme complexes that create effects and replacing them with others that create other effects. BTW, "meme" a self-replicating piece of information; "meme complex" a collection of memes that is symbiotically related and mutually reinforcing.

Thanks Marc. Did a quick read on memes before once again introducing my total ignorance

In my experience, I've tried to stay away from directly selling Western culture or ideologies. Take the Africans for example. Although they basically hated us, they really hated the French. As long as I didn't push too much 'West' and blamed nearly everything on the French, I was gold..Got everything I wanted and as you put it so well, didn't have to stomp on their pride (a slap in the face if you will).

Memetics may have its applications, but seems to me a stone age psycological way of solving problems typically encountered with any other culture.

We can sell the 'West' relatively easy, so long as the recipient is receptive. But, if he/she is a on a camel, hot, PO'd and unstable, you may want to consult RTK and keep the semantics at home

Thanks, Stan

[JD]

Thanks for your replies and I agree with both of you but I am going to keep going with this a little further. Thanks also to Marc for the offer of ready some work and I may just take you up on that. And thanks to Stan for your insights on operations. I wholly agree that trying to force western culture down eastern throats appears to be counter productive and expecting foreign cultures to like the collective ‘us’ is also asking too much. The thing I like about memetics is that it can explain why this is so and, more importantly, predict why this is so. Allow me to explain…

My primary concern is the way we currently plan for and execute campaigns. The Dutch have a great saying that you can only have peace as long as your neighbour wills it, Sun Tzu advocated winning without fighting and Michael Creighton acknowledged that ‘wars are won in the will’. Multidimensional Manoeuvre holds as its central tenet that changing the will of the enemy is paramount yet planning and execution of actions and effects in the physical domain are linked only tenuously through the information domain to the cognitive domain where we seek to generate decisive effects.

As so many luminaries have stated ‘we must fight ideas with ideas’ but at the outset of the campaign do we sit down and say ‘what are the enemy’s most dangerous ideas, are they vulnerable and how do we counter them?’ or, as I suggest is more likely, do we just get into planning troop numbers and logistic support. Recently, we are getting more sophisticated and try nation building but what are the thoughts we are trying to generate? Do we want them to like us or should we simply go for what Dave Kilcullen calls ‘enlightened self interest’. Do we build a school and then undo the good work by demanding half the students are girls or do we accept the local view that girls should not be educated? What are the thoughts we want to generate and how do we achieve them?

Since the early 20th century people have spoken of ‘munitions of the mind’. Any other munition would be systematically dissected and appropriately countered. But what about thoughts and cultural norms? What is a thought, how is it spread and why is one preferred over another? What ideas are we trying to spread and how do we spread them? What is their science? After some investigation, the best answer I have found is memetics.

Memetics, in its essence is very simple (I think). At its core is the concept of ‘universal Darwinism’ where entities are in competition and one is selected over the other for whatever reason. Take two species of motor cars: the Mazda Mediocre is in competition with the Chrysler Chickmagnet. One will be preferred and selected for more sales and will therefore survive and prosper. The other will eventually become extinct. The same goes for elements of culture and thoughts in competition with each other noting that the thoughts and cultural norms already resident in the mind will affect the process or the selective pressures in the environment.

The other critical element of memetics is the success or resilience of a thought or elements of culture (a meme) can reasonably be predicted on the basis of three things: fidelity (the ability of the meme to be copied accurately), fecundity (to what extent the idea is out there) and longevity (how engrained or how much history the idea has).

Using this information it should be possible to create a framework for uninitiated military planners to asses the process by which they can begin to assess exactly how they will bring about the changes to the enemies mindset in a coordinated manner across multiple dimensions and domains. I am not going for a precise science, only disciplined thought about effects based operations linked from the physical through the information to the cognitive domain rather than simply going straight for kinetics, logistics or policing. Let’s think about thoughts and how to bring them about and what is achievable. After all, ‘they’ are unlikely ever to like us so perhaps we should set meaningful objectives for the cognitive domain from the outset of the campaign rather than eventually being disappointed and dealing with the resultant publicity and morale.

It is a big topic which is exactly why I am after external input.

Thanks.

JD

[slapout9]

JD, here is a link to a campaign strategy website that might interest you. A lot of good and free information here. It talks a great about campagin frameworks and gives many real life examples. Hope it helps.



http://www.campaignstrategy.org/index.html