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Thread: Syria in 2018

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Syria in 2018

    A new thread prepared for 2018. The previous Syria thread was:Syria in 2017 (April-December) this had 554 posts and 70.6k views.
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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    Russian military forces at the Hmeymim air base and the Tartus logistics center in Syria came under attack by what appears to have been a swarm of drones. Some thirteen small unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) made the attack, six of which were diverted by Russian electronic warfare systems while seven additional aircraft were dispatched by Pantsir-S1 air defense batteries.
    "During the hours of darkness Russian air defense facilities made clear 13 remoted unknown small-sized air targets approaching the Russian military assets,” the Russian Defense Ministry told the TASS news agency. “Ten combat UAVs were approaching Russia’s Hmeymim air base and three more - the logistics center of Tartus."
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-ca...010700010.html
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    With Russia, Iran, and Assadists not respecting earlier agreements, seems Erdo felt free to re-start supplying insurgents in Idlib. Correspondingly, Sources - #Turkey has provided new supplies of:

    - Turkish armored vehicles
    - SALW ammo
    - RPGs
    - Mortars
    - Grad rockets & launchers
    - Tank shells
    & more…

    … To all major non-#HTS factions:

    Major new offensive is underway today in S #Idlib & N #Hama, involving:

    - Ahrar al-Sham
    - Faylaq al-Sham
    - Nour al-Din al-Zinki
    - Free Idlib Army
    - Jaish al-Nasr
    - 2nd Army
    - Jaish al-Izzeh
    ...for the express purpose of today’s new offensive vs. #Assad/#Iran/#Russia.

    So far, 16+ villages have been recaptured by the #Turkey-backed offensive in S. #Idlib & N. #Hama.

    Several of these villages were recently lost by #HTS, which has been excluded from the counter-offensive.
    ************

    BTW, N. #Latakia: reports several rockets fired by Rebels were intercepted near #Russia|n Khmeimim Airbase.

    ...Assadists have meanwhile withdrawn nearly all of their forces from northern Hama, and re-deployed them in Eastern Ghouta, where they are suffering massive casualties (again): 188 reported govt deaths since 11/14. 49 officers KIA. Total deaths likely reach 300.

    ...ah yes: and here some more 'evidence' for 'increased use of PGMs by the Russians', and, I guess, their effectivenes... :twisted:

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Drones from where attack Russian bases

    An Israeli think tank on the recent drone attacks on Russian military forces at the Hmeymim air base and the Tartus logistics center. With a few photos.
    Link:http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/...nuary-10-2018/
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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    Ah well: while there is a general tendence in the USA to buy everything the Israelis claim (then 'Israelis know everything better, they are our friends, and they never lie...' ...cough, cough...), I would say it's at least 'worth considering' that there are alternative ideas in regards of culprits for such attacks.

    One of these is that it's the IRGC that's staging such attacks.

    Reason?

    Provoking Russians, spoiling negotiations etc.

    If so, these attacks were highly successful: the VKS is meanwhile back to bombing the crap out of insurgent-controlled Idlib.

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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    Further to the topic Who Really Attacked Russia’s Air Base in Syria?:

    ...In 1989, Syrian helicopter gunships fired on a Soviet cruiser near the port city of Latakia, killing two sailors. The motive remains unclear to this day. David W. Lesch, an American historian of Syria who struck up a friendship with Bashar Al Assad, speculated in Foreign Policy magazine that Bashar’s father Hafez Al Assad may have approved the attack as a bloody message to Soviet premier Mikhail Gorbachev, who was warming up to the West and urging Assad to make peace with Israel.

    Remember, this occurred when the Soviet Union and Syria were close, Cold War friends — or, perhaps, more like frenemies.

    With Bashar unwilling to make any serious compromise in today’s Syria, following his series of Russian-backed battlefield victories across the country, this precedent may yet prove relevant — if not now, then in the months or years ahead as the interests between Moscow and Damascus diverge.

    “Whatever the reason, that [1989] incident, now largely forgotten, revealed in dramatic fashion the complexity of the relationship between Syria and Russia over the decades,” Lesch wrote.

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Afrin explained

    From my armchair a good explanation of what is the situation in Afrin, NW Syria; an area controlled by the Kurdish YPG, but cut off from the main YPG enclave along the Turkish border.

    Link:http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone...hy-it-matters?

    The map is from the BBC's report:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-42759944
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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default How historical Afrin became a prize worth a war

    Another backgrounder on the Afrin pocket by a SME via the BBC and rather brutally ends with:
    Whatever the future holds for Afrin, one side's dream is likely to be the other's nightmare.
    Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-42788179
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    From my armchair a good explanation of what is the situation in Afrin, NW Syria; an area controlled by the Kurdish YPG, but cut off from the main YPG enclave along the Turkish border.
    It's the largest area clearly controlled by the PKK.

    Of course, the latter is appearing under the 'PYD/YPG' banner...

    The Turkish military operation against the Efrin enclave was a matter of time; really expected 'since years'. There was never any kind of a doubt that Turkey would attack: question was only when, and under what circumstances.

    As a reminder: the PKK/PYD/YPG-conglomerate is dominated by the PKK, an organisation considered ‘terrorist’ by all of the NATO, by the USA, and at war with Turkey since more than 30 years. The PKK/PYD/YPG-conglomerate continues to consider Turkey as its primary enemy. Regardless of the nature and politics of its government, as a nation-state, Turkey has a vital-interest in neutralising the PKK’s control over any areas along its borders.

    Secondary reason for this operation seems to be the Turkish conclusion that the latest Russian and Iranian operations against Turkey-supported Syrian insurgents in northern Hama, Idlib and southern Aleppo provinces are violating earlier agreements between Ankara, Moscow and Tehran.

    Finally, Turkey has another national security interest – which is to prevent the intake of hundreds of thousands of refugees from Syria. Because the latest Iranian and Russian offensives have created a movement of thousands of refugees in direction of the Turkish border, Ankara was forced to search for alternatives. Wrestling the control of the Efrin enclave from the PKK/PYD/YPG conglomerate would enable Turks to harbour additional refugees in that zone instead inside Turkey.

    BTW, the propaganda machinery of the PKK/PYD/YPG conglomerate is already in tears. For example: the WP published the article ‘We’re trying to build democracy in Syria. So why is Turkey attacking us?’

    While declared ‘pluralist’ and ‘tolerant’ by most of the Western media, the PKK/PYD/YPG-conglomerate not only never distanced from its violently authoritarian history, but is showing clear intentions to continue ruling parts of Syria under its control in the very same fashion. Contrary to the widespread practice of uncritical forwarding of the PKK/PYD propaganda by the international media, the group has shown no intention to establish anything like a pluralist, democratic system of rule in the areas it controls. On the contrary, it made itself responsible of widespread atrocities and violations of human rights, such war crimes like ethnic cleansing of the Arab population, intimidation and executions of other Syrian Kurdish leaders and their political parties, forceful recruitment and similar.

    Foremost its online fans insist on terming the Kurdish militants controlling the Efrin enclave as ‘SDF’ – i.e. as a part of the US-run ‘Syrian Democratic Force’, acclaimed as ‘the most effective anti-IS force in Syria’. Even the Deutsche Welle claims ‘Turkey (is) attacking the most effective anti-IS force in Syria’.

    The PKK/PYD/YPG militants controlling the Efrin enclave are no ‘SDF’: they have never received any kind of support from the Pentagon, nor were ever a part of the CENTCOM-controlled command structure of the SDF. Unsurprisingly, when directly challenged about this issue, the Pentagon clearly stated:

    ‘We don’t consider them as part of our Defeat ISIS operations, which is what we are doing there. We do not support them, we are not involved with them at all.’

    And finally: no matter what they babble, neither the PKK, nor PYD or YPG are anything like 'representatives of all the Kurds'. I.e. Turkey is not 'attacking Kurds' in the Efrin enclave, but a terrorist organisation.

  10. #10
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default 2018: The agenda for 2018 looks like more of the same

    A bleak, short overview of the Syrian war by Professor Scott Lucas, Birmingham University; who ends with:
    The agenda for 2018 looks like more of the same. Bombing and shelling, including of civilians. Sieges, starvation, and deaths from treatable medical conditions. A Russian-backed disinformation campaign to smear medics and rescuers as puppets of both al-Qaeda and the US. Political gatherings which yield little more than platitudes. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
    Link:ttps://theconversation.com/syria-upd...-the-war-89947
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    The Turkish-Insurgent offensive on the Efrin enclave is bogged down in mud...

    ...while the People lacking fresh air (the Pentagon) and the Keystone Cops in Moscow (Russian MOD) are now at verbal odds with each other. Newest episode in this soap opera is one from the first group thinking he could brag as cited here:

    ...“The Russian ministry of defense statements are about as accurate as their air campaign [in Syria],” U.S. Army Colonel Ryan Dillon, a spokesman for the American-led coalition fighting ISIS, said earlier in November 2017 after the Kremlin accused the United States of supporting the terrorists in Iraq and Syria. “I think that is a reason for them to start, you know, coming out with their latest barrage of lies.”
    ...
    Problem is: the VKS' campaign in Syria might be incredibly inprecise (guess, it would be considered a total failure by the Pentagon), BUT: it is supported by more effective politics than the Pentagon could ever imagine.

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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    To recapitulate the last few days, or slightly more...

    - On 11 November 2017, Putin announced a 'withdrawal of Russian forces from Syria'.

    - Thus, and ever since, the VKS (Russian Air-Space Force) is 'not' flying up to 70 sorties a day in support of the IRGC-run offensive on eastern Idlib.

    - This offensive 'did not' force up to 300,000 Syrian civilians to flee in direction of the Turkish border.

    - The last few days, few of VKS Su-25s 'did not' become notorious for attacking refugee treks moving in direction from Sarqib towards Turkey, and massacring dozens.

    No. These were 'anti-terror operations against IGIL-controlled Sarqib'.

    (Of course, there's no 'IGIL' - aka IS, i.e. Daesh - anywhere around 50km from Sarqib: there is a big concentration of them in southern Aleppo, but they are, really, NOT bombed by the Russians.)

    - And it so happened, that one of the Russian Su-25 pilots passed over what Sputnik declared a 'de-militarised zone', and didn't know he might be fired upon - and that only seconds after unleashing a load of S-8 unguided rockets from his B-8M pods at another civilian vehicle.

    Sounds logical so far: unarmed civilians tend not to shoot back.

    Alas... and so 'terribly tragically' (play the national anthem of the Soviet Union in the background while reading the following)... so really in best traditions of 'Russian-tragedy', the Su-25SM Bort 06 (RF-95486), flown by geroic Major Roman Filipov, then got blasted out of the skies by insurgents of Jaysh an-Nasir (FSyA).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEmFbuPJAFk

    Now: Filipov dully ejected and did so over the place named Ma'asaran, some 3-4km south of Sarqib. While Sarqib is HTS-controlled, Ma'asaran is held by the Jaysh an-Nasir.

    Once on the ground, Filipov came down right next to the wreckage of his aircraft - and a bunch of women and children screaming after being attacked by him, only seconds before (one can hear their screams in the full version of the video posted above). Thus he (now switch the music to Lenin Funeral March, please) - geroically killed himself with a hand-grenade - 'in order to avoid being captured and beheaded', 'of course'.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxfhm1slhM0

    The latter variant is not the least nifty. No, no. It so happens the Keystone Cops in Moscow, and thus their clowns at Hmemmem AB, cannot know that Ma'asaran is held by the Jaysh an-Nasir, and not by the HTS. I.e. who is in control of the place their Su-25s are rocketing since days - which in turn indicates they are either:

    a) complete, and definitely confirmed idiots, indeed a worst sort of thugs with illusions of grandeur, entirely wrong in place and time, or

    b) cynical arseholes who are all the time intentionally targeting everybody else - foremost Civilians, and Syrian insurgents fighting against Assadists and the IRGC - JUST NOT JIHADISTS.

    Ah yes, and BTW: guess by what was Filipov shot down?

    By a 9K38 Strela, aka SA-18 MANPAD. Exactly the kind of which the Russians provided to the PKK, so this shot down a Turkish AH-1W, last year in May, and which the Syrian insurgents fighting on the TSK's side against the PKK/PYD/YPG-conglomerate in the Efrin canton, reportedly captured a few days ago.

    ...and of course, in revenge for the downing of their pilot (then, you know: it's very, very, very unfair - indeed: a war crime - to shot down a Russian pilot that's massacring civilians since days, and that - imagine! - at war!), the Russians are bombing every single hospital in that part of the Idlib province...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRHSrvXJLDs

    Now isn't this an 'amazing series of coincidences'...

    EDIT: ...or not at all. Guess, Putin considers that Su-25 for 'trully withdrawn from Syria'. At least 'one less to fly all the way back'...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by CrowBat; 02-05-2018 at 04:07 PM.

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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    Another brief summary of what's going on in Syria the last few days...

    The Russians have negotiated that 'distribution of Idlib' with Turkey, but at the same time supported the IRGC assault on Idlib. The IRGC then attacked Turks, Turks returned fire. The entire nonsense caused 300,000 additional Syrians to flee in direction of the Turkish border....

    Now, what did the Russians to expect: the Turks to simply accept what's going on?

    ...and as next, the Russians then 'let' Assadists and the IRGC assault the US-supported PKK/PYD/YPG/SDF-conglomerate...

    ...either because Keystone Cops 'suspect' the USA have provided 'Stingers' to HTS, or because it's actually so that the Russians have no control over the IRGC...

    ...man, alone typing this all hurts: this is such mindblowing, absurd nonsense I'm really lacking words...

    Ah well, the titles about the outcome are speaking for themselves:

    - US-led Coalition says Assad regime forces today attacked the SDF headquarters in Syria. Coalition service members, probably US special forces were present during the attack Coalition repelled the attack by conducting air strikes

    - [Details] US Led Coalition kill an estimated 100 SAA troops

    - According to a #SDF commander the US airforce has destroyed more than 20 #SAA vehicles, among them 9 tanks and killed more than 30 #SAA soldiers in northern #DeirEzzor today.

    **************

    Re. downed Su-25.... (once again, I've got to return to this topic, and ignore all the massacres of civilians committed by Assadists and Russians ever since)....

    The shot down occurred around 15.00hrs local time (think it was 14.45 or something, actually).

    The first video of the downing was published by Jaysh an-Nasr and showed the right engine on fire: https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video...GMshSKJTM3.mp4

    This claim was forwarded by some of mainstream-media (example: Businessinsider: http://www.businessinsider.de/syrian...18-2?r=US&IR=T), and and even by such Assadist propaganda-platforms like 'al-Masdar News’ (https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...d-pilot-video/).

    About one hour later, the Keystone Cops in Moscow announced the loss, and credited the HTS with it. Immediately afterwards, the 'Eba'a News Agency' - the HTS' news agency - claimed the kill for the HTS.

    ...and then 'everybody jumped the train': all the mainstream-media claimed the kill for the HTS...

    ...and now nobody cares if it was the Jaysh an-Nasr that forwarded pilot's body to Turkey, which then returned it to Moscow...

    That's all 'perfectly logical': after all, why should anybody trouble himself explaining Jaysh an-Nasr - especially in reports where there is rarely more space than 1-2 sentences to do so? It's much easier to claim 'HTS', then everybody knows what is the HTS. Besides, 'they are all terrorists there, alone because they yell Allah-u-Akbar'...

    There's no more sophisticated way of finding out who's a terrorist and who is none... :roll:
    Last edited by CrowBat; 02-08-2018 at 10:00 AM.

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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    Wait, wait, wait, wait... this is getting ever better and better.

    Now, the glorious, non-biased, absolutely neutral German media is getting involved in this affair. The MSM forwards the Deutsche-Welle-report originally titled The USA Attacked pro-Assad Combatants (title was meanwhile changed to 'pro-Syria combatants')

    Guess, the journo writing this means that the US mind-controlled 'pro-Syrian combatants' into attacking the area controlled by the US-supported PKK/PYD/YPG/SDF-conglomerate, so the USA could then 'attack'...

    Man, I'm surprised it was the Deutsche Welle that came out with such a title: this is rather worth Der Spiegel.

    - Ah, you don't know what's meant with 'pro-Syrian combatants'? That's a description happily used foremost by the Pentagon (not only by clueless journos from the MSM) to describe IRGC-QF-controlled troops.

    'But Tom, you see IRGC everywhere'.

    Yeah, I'm obsessed with the IRGC, and that without a reason - as obvious when one reads further down that report, where several Afghans of the IRGC-QF's Liwa Fatimiyoun are cited as killed in the US strike.

    Instead, NO: nobody there - no Pentagon, no Kreml, no MSM - comes to the idea to call them what they are: Iran-controlled, foreign troops in Syria.

    Yes, some of them have meanwhile got the Syrian citizenship - and that on order from the IRGC, as reported several times. But no, no, no and NO: there are no Iranian troops in Syria. Just like there are no US troops in Syria, and like Russians have been withdrawn on order from Putin.

    You have any doubts about this? Please go and ask Trump, ask Putin, ask Israelis, and ask Saudis. If nothing else, they'll all tell you that all the Iranian troops are in Yemen.

    Everything is better than to accept few simple truths. Essence of every war is money. Money buys supplies: 'beans, bullets, and gas' necessary for fighting. Money buys combatants too. No money = no war. Period.

    Assad regime is known to have gone bankrupt already back in November 2011. News reels were full of corresponding reports back then. But no: please have the memory of the fish, dear reader, and never ask yourself how comes this regime remains capable of continuing the war 6 1/2 years later...?

    But nah: Assad is surviving thanks to 'pro-Syria combatants'. Guess that should mean something like 'little green Mars People that took the wrong turn after passing Venus'...

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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    Careful cross-examination of reports from the social media is leading to few very interesting conclusions regarding that 'Battle of the Conoco Oilfield': CENTCOM bushwacked an Iranian force near Dayr az-Zawr.

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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    As usually, the MSM reporting is slow, superficial, and concentrating on sensations ('Israeli F-16 shot down'). Thus, here a summary of what's said to be going on over south-western Syria since early this morning (local time):

    Reportedly, the brawl started with the IRGC sending one of its UAVs from T-4 AB (aka Tiyas/Tifor) in central Syria into the Israeli air space, early this morning. The IDF claimed this as shot down by one of its AH-64 Apache helicopters.

    'In retaliation' for this 'aggression', the Israelis then started launching air strikes.

    The 1st wave included activity of Israeli aircraft over northern Lebanon and...hm... actually over Jordan (or at least 'along the Syrian-Jordanian border). It reportedly hit some kind of an 'observation tower' at T-4. I guess that should mean the control tower there. It is possible that other objects at that air base have been hit, too: lately, there were rumours about the IRIADF (regular Islamic Republic of Iran Air Defence Force) deploying one of its MIM-23B I-HAWK/Shahin SAM-sites there (the IRGC has its own air defences, but these are only operating such Soviet/Russian-made systems like SA-6s, SA-15s and SA-17s).

    Apparently on the way back from that attack, an F-16I was shot down - perhaps by an Assadist SA-5. One of crewmembers of the F-16I should've been seriously injured (apparently on ejection).

    The 2nd wave, launched about one hour later, has hit multiple targets NW of Damascus and N of Qunaitra, foremost in the area around (FSyA-controlled) Bayt Jinn pocket. Also hit were unknown objects in the Qisba area (Damascene suburb) and around Dera'a.

    As usually, slow and superficial reporting from the MSM...

    The Israeli air strikes on Assad/IRGC-controlled parts of Syria are going on. Currently, the third wave is underway.

    Along what the official IDF spokesperson says, this is a large-scale SEAD/DEAD operation:

    ...12 targets, including 3 aerial defense batteries & 4 Iranian military targets, were attacked. Anti-aircraft missiles were fired towards Israel, triggering alarms in northern Israel'...
    The 3rd wave was underway around 1 hour ago and resulted in reported 'explosions everywhere around Damascus'.

    Intensive activity of 'Syrian' air defences was reported, too. Between others, and in total, social media indicated firings of 20-25 S-200s/SA-5s, S-125/SA-3s, and Pantsyr S1/SA-19s so far.

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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    Further to the 'Battle of Conoco oilfield', from 8 February: slowly, very slowly, pieces of the puzzle are coming together.

    Inside the U.S. coalition attack on Syrian forces in Deir-ez-Zor
    ...Pro-government outlets have made various claims about their losses: that zero deaths occurred,5. that all deaths were among local tribesmen,6. or that only 25 National Defense Force (NDF) fighters died.7. However, loyalist martyrdom reports paint a very different picture.

    Within 24 hours, 22 martyrs “of the American aggression in Deir Ez Zor” had been named and at least 30 bodies had been brought back to the hospital in Suqaylabiyah.8. Of these men, only two were Deir-ez-Zor locals of the Bagarra tribe: Laith and Ashraf al-Bashir, sons of the influential Sheikh Nawaf al-Bashir.9. Of the remaining 20 fighters, seven were from the coastal governorate of Tartous, five from the coastal governorate of Latakia, and eight from Hama.10. Two of the men from Tartous were high ranking officers: Brigadier General Yusuf Haider and Lieutenant Colonel Yasser Essa. Lieutenant Colonel Essa and eight other fighters were identified as members of the enigmatic “ISIS Hunters,” a small Russian-equipped, well-trained, and well-armed militia historically operating in Syria’s east.11. Brigadier General Haider was identified by a relative as a Russian linguist.12.
    ...

    Furthermore, in June 2017 the St. Petersburg-based Fontanka organisation broke the news that the new gas and oil company Euro Polis and the state-owned General Petroleum Corporation had signed contracts granting them the rights to 25% of any oil and gas production at facilities captured by “its contractors” from ISIS.18. This was confirmed by the Associated Press in December 2017.19. The Fontanka report further identified “ISIS Hunters” as holding “contractual obligations” to Euro Polis for securing those oil and gas fields. Fontanka also published a video filmed by Russian fighters near Palmyra, Homs, identical to an earlier video published by the official ISIS Hunters Twitter page.20.
    ...

    Shortly after the skirmish, a mid-level Syrian fighter posted his account of what happened on Facebook: “At around 10:45pm last night, the Syrian Arab Army and its friends began the battle for the liberation of the Conoco gas fields controlled by the Kurdish militias.”21. Two sources close to another Russian private military contractor operating in Syria, Wagner PMC, further claimed there were Russian casualties in the battle.22.23. The high concentration of ISIS Hunters among the attacking forces, the presence of a Russian linguist, and the intention of seizing the largest gas fields in Deir-ez-Zor implies that this attack was instigated either by Wagner PMC or by Russian leaders within the ISIS Hunters, potentially at the behest of General Petroleum Corporation.
    ...
    Now, this is making things as complicated as it's explaining them.

    Crucial is the notion that - according to this article - the push for Conoco oilfield was financially motivated. It's simply so that the contractor gets 25% of the oil revenue from captured facilities. This prompted multiple groups into getting involved in the race.

    Mind: oilfields are private ownership of strategic importance. Nothing that belongs to whoever stumbles into one. Wars, uprisings, insurgencies, proxy wars, legitimate or illegitimate governments, mass murderers or whatever is in power - or not: there are contracts for oilfields, assigning the ownership to specific parties. In this case it's the Conoco. And Conoco gives 25% of the profit to anybody 'liberating' its facility there.

    Along that line, no surprise that multiple parties got involved ... or that the US-supported PKK/PYD/YPG/SDF-conglomerate 'defended with all means on hand': i.e. the PKK rose the US flag like its underwear and the CENTCOM was promptly on the scene.

    That's pure war profiteering - by all the involved parties. At least two of these paid a hefty price for losing that race.

  18. #18
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    Default Shot down F16I

    It looks like S-125 Missile,SAM-3

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cp...eaec0c5d33.jpg

  19. #19
    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    More likely a S-200VM, aka SA-5 Gammon.

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    Default Shot down F16I

    Nope,
    it is S-125 missile.
    look at size,shape and difference between tail fin&destabilizator
    S-125
    https://www.google.cz/search?q=s+125...JDtZGXPUTXADM:

    S-200
    https://www.google.cz/search?rlz=1C1...fnvn69ORYC9qM:

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