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Thread: Burma: catch all thread

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwards Observer View Post
    Well, as you apparently intended to insult "everyone", I feel much better now.
    Straight up I was out of line. I can be very caustic and I'm quite aware of it. That's why I normally make a lot of effort not to be. I've had the flu and when I'm ill I don't do quite as well with that as I'd wish. For me, while I'm both capable and quite comfortable in engaging in completely brutal debate, there's a lot to be said for doing so as civilly as possible. A large part of that involved not making personal attacks. It's one thing to denigrate an idea, quite another to denigrate a person. I don't seek to do the latter.

    My apology was meant for you directly, but also for the silent multitudes. In my experience it isn't uncommon for people who're risk averse when it comes to free speech to form all sorts of impressions without expressing any of them. So, it makes a degree of sense to address such things a bit more broadly.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayuhan View Post
    I can't see how they could be harnessed against the above in any sort of offensive capacity, as the subject of the offense would have to be rather far away, and they aren't folks that like to travel, or fight, outside their own domain.
    I don't think it's reasonable to consider harnessing anyone in any of the nations bordering China for any purpose affecting China in a negative way. Objectively, things are such a mess in Burma it's entirely possible that resolution of any sort would result in anything other than a lessing of containment. Right now, abject failure is acting as containment. I'd dispute the idea that they need containment too. What I think they need is the sort of successes that teach them that totalitarian brutality is a strategy that only creates failure.

    The sort of idea of containment of China isn't an invalid notion, they've got a really dysfunctional streak of hyper-nationalist imperialism going on in some quarters that does need containing. However they have to do that themselves, and have a higher need to do it than anyone else too. It's not something that's going to get accomplished through some ludicrous bankrupt notion of proxy warfare. One of the lessons that come from Iraq as well as other conflicts is just how pompous and silly that idea is. Containment through the use of force really only applies during armed conflict, outside of that I think a lot of containment stems from the strength of peace and success. By way of example, the maritime conflicts nationalist elements in China have been provoking have been contained by neighbor states perceptions of their own successes & the sentiment that they share a stake in keeping those. They don't perceive themselves as weak, or having nations built that are lacking in comparative value, so they are more invested with motivations to stand up to unreasonable international bullying.

    Burma has a pile of internal ugly going on that none of it's neighbors like. The conflict there is growing worse, and it's more likely that things will get worse than they will get better. I'm not even so sure that the draft they just instituted won't end up training the army that will end up shooting them.

  3. #43
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    Rangers to the rescue in Myanmar

    Founded 14 years ago by an ex-United States army officer and Karen refugees, the Free Burma Rangers provides a lifeline for displaced people in Myanmar's junta-designated "black zones" where soldiers have license to kill ethnic guerillas and civilians with impunity. Painstaking efforts to bring medical aid in and records of atrocities out make the Rangers a force to be reckoned with.
    Rangers to the rescue in Myanmar - Photo Essay by Tony Cliff - Asia Times Online, Feb 18, 2011

  4. #44
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    Default the world's a mess, it's in my keris

    Farce follows tragedy in Myanmar
    By Bertil Lintner

    BANGKOK - If Karl Marx was right that history repeats itself first as tragedy and then as farce, Myanmar may have just entered the farcical phase of its long-running military rule. The first general election held in over 20 years last November and announcement that a new elected National Assembly will be convened on January 31 have not excited many ordinary Myanmar citizens, but have led to wild speculation among foreign pundits about what it all means for the country's political future.
    Farce follows tragedy in Myanmar - Bertil Lintner - Asia Times Online, Jan 25, 2011

    $$$

    Myanmar, North Korea in missile nexus
    By Bertil Lintner

    BANGKOK - Military-run Myanmar's growing weapons ambitions, including new revelations that the reclusive regime is producing long-range Scud-type missiles with North Korean assistance, threaten to destabilize the region and make the Southeast Asian country a new global weapons proliferation hotspot.
    Myanmar, North Korea in missile nexus - Bertil Lintner - Asia Times Online, Mar 2, 2011

    $$$

    Fog lifts on Myanmar-North Korea barter
    By Bertil Lintner

    BANGKOK - With the Middle East and North Africa in turmoil, North Korea risks losing some of its oldest and most trusted customers for military hardware. Pyongyang has over the years sold missiles and missile technology to Egypt, Libya, Yemen, the United Arab Emirates, Syria and Iran, representing an important source of export earnings for the reclusive regime. The growing uncertainty among those trade partners could explain why North Korea is now cementing ties with a client much closer to home: military-run Myanmar.
    Fog lifts on Myanmar-North Korea barter - Bertil Lintner - Asia Times Online, Mar 4, 2011

    $$$

    Bertil Lintner is a Swedish journalist based in Thailand and the author of several works on Asia, including Blood Brothers: The Criminal Underworld of Asia and Great Leader, Dear Leader: Demystifying North Korea Under The Kim Clan.
    Lintner is one of many blacklisted journalists who have not been allowed to enter Burma since 1985. Lintner has written numerous articles and books on Burma, and is considered to be one of the most knowledgeable foreign journalists on Burmese affairs. The State Peace and Development Council says his reports on Burma are groundless and based on wishful thinking.
    Bertil Lintner - Wikipedia

    ...

    The State Peace and Development Council [...] is the official name of the military regime of Burma (also known as Myanmar), which seized power in 1988.
    State Peace and Development Council - Wikipedia (entry listed as 'outdated')

  5. #45
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    Default thanks for those links

    They're good, and the news is broadly, as opposed to more locally, very alarming. When combined with new about the serious increase in internal violence, blatant human rights violations, and overt violent repression, the larger national and international activities they're engaged in do not present any sort of good picture. I think it's a serious mistake for border countries & other nations to engage in alliance behavior, much less apologies & willful ignorance of what's going on. It's obvious that they have some rather ugly plans for their relationships with neighbors.

    They have no end of problems, and any country that's governed by what's widely referred to as a "junta" is probably going to fail badly. In the case of Burma, the military has to create and continue all sorts of conflicts to justify it's existence. After all, if there was peace & success, there would be no justification for a military run government. People who think they can equivocate and bargain with these madmen are badly mistaken.

    In particular I find it disappointing that US Sen. Webb has bought into their crap.

  6. #46
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    Another Burma-related article from Bertil Lintner:

    CHIANG MAI - There was hardly a vacant seat in the Protestant church by the Ping River in the northern Thai city of Chiang Mai for the funeral. American veterans of the Indochina war mixed with Thai and foreign residents, missionaries and intelligence officers, Lahu and Wa tribesmen, and even some wildlife conservationists.

    Wreaths came from a group of people who fought in the secret war in Laos in the 1960s and call themselves the "Unknown Warriors Association 333", former United States Agency for International Development (USAID) workers, the US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), and across the border in Myanmar the rebel Shan State Army.

    All of them had come to say farewell to former US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officer William Young, who on April 1 ended his own life after suffering from severe emphysema and other ailments, aged 76. He was found dead in his home in Chiang Mai with a handgun in one hand and a crucifix in the other. Young was a warrior but also a devout Christian. As the turnout at the funeral showed, Young was a legend long before he died.

    His life and that of his family reflected the ups and downs of more than a century of American engagement with Southeast Asia, its most glorious days as well as its most controversial. At the turn of the last century, William Young's namesake, his grandfather William Young, opened a Baptist mission in Kengtung in the eastern Shan states of Myanmar, then known as Burma.
    Wise Man On The Hill - Bertil Lintner - Asia Times Online - 4/8/11

  7. #47
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    New Photo Essay by Tony Cliff:

    The Sunni Muslim Rohingya are not wanted in their native Myanmar, nor anywhere else in the world for that matter; they are one of the largest stateless populations on the planet. Out of an estimated 1.5 to 2 million, only 48,800 Rohingya registered as refugees in Bangladesh and Malaysia have legal status. Theirs is a future without hope.

    Without a homeland, without a hope - Tony Cliff - Asia Times Online - 4/9/11

    Related article by Subir Bhaumik:

    Faced with persecution and poverty in Bangladesh and Myanmar, Rohingya Muslims risk perilous sea journeys in leaky and antiquated vessels to escape to Southeast Asia, while facing unscrupulous trafficking agents and armed border police. The luckier Rohingya become forced labor in rubber plantations on the Thai-Malaysian border, others face repatriation - or worse.
    Adrift on cruel waters - Subir Bhaumik - Asia Times Online - 4/9/11
    Last edited by Backwards Observer; 04-08-2011 at 09:16 AM. Reason: add link

  8. #48
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    A US warship intercepted and halted a North Korean vessel that was bound for Burma and was suspected of carrying missile technology, US media report.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13747912
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  9. #49
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    I'm wondering if that same ship hasn't been stopped before...

  10. #50
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    Default Real or cosmetic change?

    An IISS Strategic Comment, which opens with:
    A year after Myanmar's first elections in 20 years, the country has taken important steps towards reforming its political system and its economy. It has surprised Burmese citizens and the world with a series of important liberalising measures. These have not yet, however, led to a relaxation of economic sanctions by the United States and European countries.
    Ends with:
    .. after almost 50 years in exile and said upon his return: 'They have decided to change. It's not what we called for, but there are changes. Even if they are pretending to change, we should push them so the change becomes irreversible.'
    Link:http://www.iiss.org/publications/str...opeful-change/
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  11. #51
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    Default Fighting since 1948: a group agrees to a ceasefire

    Much has been happening in Burma of late, mainly diplomatic, but after fighting the central government since 1948 a Karen group has agreed to a ceasefire:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...en-rebels.html
    davidbfpo

  12. #52
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    I have just met the Consul General Myanmar.

    Things are changing!

  13. #53
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    Default Rohingya insurgents say they have no option but to fight Myanmar

    YANGON (Reuters) - Rohingya Muslim insurgents said on Sunday they have no option but to fight what they called Myanmar state-sponsored terrorism to defend the Rohingya community, and they demanded that the Rohingya be consulted on all decisions affecting their future.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN1EW03V

    From January 5th -
    Rohingya Muslim insurgents ambushed a military vehicle in Myanmar's Rakhine State, wounding five members of the security forces, State media and officials said, and the rebels claimed responsibility for the rare attack.
    *
    The military said “extremist Bengali terrorists ARSA" carried out the Friday attack on a truck taking someone to hospital.
    “A vehicle ... was attacked by 20 insurgents from the mountain using homemade mines and small arms,” the government said.
    The military said there were about 10 attackers involved.
    http://www.thehindu.com/news/interna...le22387098.ece

    The fighting continues from last August. See also SJW Blog
    Why Myanmar’s Government Won’t Negotiate With Rohingya Insurgents
    http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ad.php?t=26013
    Last edited by AdamG; 01-08-2018 at 09:05 PM.
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


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  14. #54
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    Default The Rohingyas: Inside Myanmar's Genocide

    If you need a book this might help; from the publisher's website:
    Ibrahim’s searing book documents the slow-motion genocide of the Muslim Rohingyas and exposes the culpability of the Buddhist clergy in fomenting the religious cleansing of Myanmar.
    This is a new, revised edition and a paperback costs £12.99.
    Link:http://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/...eid=80d42c7c0a
    davidbfpo

  15. #55
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    Default Rohingyas and the Unfinished Business of Partition

    A decent backgrounder on the crisis that outsiders probably think is new, when in fact there is a long history and recent reporting I have seen made almost no mention of the history involved. Let alone the communal and ethnic problems within Burma.
    Link:https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/rohi...-of-partition/
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 01-16-2018 at 07:05 PM. Reason: 664v
    davidbfpo

  16. #56
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    Reference a survivor returning to the scene of the August slaughter,

    They are among more than five mass graves, all previously unreported, that have been confirmed by The Associated Press through multiple interviews with more than two dozen survivors in Bangladesh refugee camps and through time-stamped cellphone videos. The Myanmar government regularly claims such massacres of the Rohingya never happened, and has acknowledged only one mass grave containing 10 “terrorists” in the village of Inn Din. However, the AP’s reporting shows a systematic slaughter of Rohingya Muslim civilians by the military, with help from Buddhist neighbors — and suggests the presence of many more graves with many more people.
    The Massacre
    Survivors said that the soldiers carefully planned the Aug. 27 attack, and then deliberately tried to hide what they had done. They came to the slaughter armed not only with rifles, knives, rocket launchers and grenades, but also with shovels to dig pits and acid to burn away faces and hands so that the bodies could not be identified. Two days before the attack, villagers say, soldiers were seen buying 12 large containers of acid at a nearby village’s market.
    The killing began around noon, when more than 200 soldiers swept into Gu Dar Pyin from the direction of a Buddhist village to the south, firing their weapons. The Rohingya who could move fast enough ran toward the north or toward a river in the east, said Mohammad Sha, 37, a shop owner and farmer.
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-coul...044549546.html
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


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  17. #57
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    YANGON (Reuters) - A court in Myanmar declined to grant bail on Thursday for two Reuters journalists accused of violating the country’s Official Secrets Act, although their defense lawyer said information in documents at the center of the case was publicly available.
    Wa Lone, 31, and Kyaw Soe Oo, 27, had worked on Reuters coverage of a crisis in Rakhine state, where an army crackdown on insurgents that started on Aug. 25 has triggered the flight of nearly 690,000 Rohingya Muslims to neighboring Bangladesh, according to the United Nations.
    The reporters were detained on Dec. 12 after they had been invited to meet police officers over dinner in Yangon. They have told relatives they were arrested almost immediately after being handed some documents at a restaurant by two officers they had not met before.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN1FK3C2
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


    http://i.imgur.com/IPT1uLH.jpg

  18. #58
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    Bound together, the 10 Rohingya Muslim captives watched their Buddhist neighbors dig a shallow grave. Soon afterwards, on the morning of Sept. 2, all 10 lay dead. At least two were hacked to death by Buddhist villagers. The rest were shot by Myanmar troops, two of the gravediggers said.
    "One grave for 10 people," said Soe Chay, 55, a retired soldier from Inn Din's Rakhine Buddhist community who said he helped dig the pit and saw the killings. The soldiers shot each man two or three times, he said. "When they were being buried, some were still making noises. Others were already dead."
    The killings in the coastal village of Inn Din marked another bloody episode in the ethnic violence sweeping northern Rakhine state, on Myanmar's western fringe. Nearly 690,000 Rohingya Muslims have fled their villages and crossed the border into Bangladesh since August. None of Inn Din's 6,000 Rohingya remained in the village as of October.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


    http://i.imgur.com/IPT1uLH.jpg

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