Combat optics, iron sights and you

[Ender]

I was always very leery of the EOTechs et al specifically for the reasons mentioned here. I found the EOTechs fogged on me and I have always been hesitant to rely on anything that takes batteries. Aimpoints are very nice but like you guys have already said optics like this erode your fundamental skills.

For OIF II I went with the ACOG (I had an M4/203 combo) and LOVED it. Initially I wanted one of the sexy new ninja sights but learned very quickly that this little beast was where it was at. It had just enough magnification to enable me to get a clearer picture of what was out there but not so much that it prevented me from being able to engage in the close fight. (With DA, CQB roles and presentation drills I would aim "slightly high" and put rounds exactly where I wanted them.) I found that even after using the ACOG I could pop it off and fire iron sights with the same level of proficiency because even with the little scope I still had to have sight alignment, sight picture which equated to front/rear sight alignment with iron sights so very few of the good habits were erased. The lens itself is large enough to facilitate rapid target acquisition and I never had a problem with using the scope and my NOD's either so that was another plus...

One last thing on that little optic... once it is dialed in that sucker will dot "i's" and cross "t's" if you want it to... near or far.

[120mm]

Ender,

Did you ever use the "iron sights" molded into the top of the ACOG for CQB? I ask, because I didn't go to the ACOG because of some of the issues with magnification and CQB. Perhaps I decided too quickly.

[Uboat509]

The iron sights on the top of the ACOG are crap. Most of the guys I know who use the ACOG (myself included) either have taught themselves to aquire the sight very qucikly throught the scope or they use what is called Jpoint which is simply a red dot sight that sits where the iron sight would go (it actually screws into the same holes). This is what I use and I really like it. It takes some getting used to at first because it sits higher but you can actually aquire the picture quicker. I just put a 10 meter zero on the Jpoint and get my hold off out to 25 meters and beyond that I have the ACOG. It is a pretty good system.

SFC W

[Ender]

120mm,

Uboat is right on the money, I did something very similar to my rig (because he is right those sights are crap) and was able to acquire that sight lead with only a little practice... I think his Jpoint suggestion is an excellent one and would have definitely added it if I could. In the right hands this setup makes a shooter surgical at almost any range.

One last thing about the ACOG that can not be said enough, I don't know why I didn't say it earlier, they are RUGGED. I put mine through hell and always had this mental itch to check my zero but the dope was always good...they are made simply and solidly.

[Ender]

I would also like to add that Tom's point about skeet, trap etc... is solid. I dated a girl in Lejeune whose father hunted everything that moved. He turned me on to skeet and so many of my skills were honed in the months we shot together.

I can not think of a better exercise for instinctive shooting, overall barrell/sight alignment, target lead or sheer enjoyment. Hitting the pigeon with a pellet or two is nice but nothing says "fun" like literally turning 25 flying objects into flying dust from a variety of angles.

[goesh]

I always found sniping turtles on a pond, head shots, at long range with a .22 was a good workout. the turtles were pretty safe. Poor man's skeet using heavy washers is a good workout too using a .22

[Tom Odom]

I can not think of a better exercise for instinctive shooting, overall barrell/sight alignment, target lead or sheer enjoyment. Hitting the pigeon with a pellet or two is nice but nothing says "fun" like literally turning 25 flying objects into flying dust from a variety of angles.

I wish I did turn 25 to dust but at least the ones I miss break when they hit the ground. Shooting a 28 gauge, I feel content when I am in the "20s" and joyous when I break 23.

I always found sniping turtles on a pond, head shots, at long range with a .22 was a good workout. the turtles were pretty safe. Poor man's skeet using heavy washers is a good workout too using a .22

I have a pond at my house and the turtles would take over if I did not reduce the herd. I just built a custom 10/22 for the job, set up to take .22 Shorts, that does the job nicely. Basic ballistics mean that a .22 Short CB 29 grain round hits harder than a .177 cal 7 grain pellet. A pellet traveling at a muzzle velocity of 1000 FPS just won't penetrate a shell with a half inch of water over it at 25 to 30 yards; the 29 grain .22 bullet at a muzzle velocity of 710 FPS does so with a solid wallop.

The real bottom line in all of this is something everyone knows; the more you shoot, the better you get at it. I guess I am too much of a neanderthal to get into simulation; I like the smell of the gunpowder or the oily smell of a heated barrel. Smells like....victory!

Tom

[bluefalcondelta3]

One last thing on that little optic... once it is dialed in that sucker will dot "i's" and cross "t's" if you want it to... near or far.

Couldn't have said it better if I tried all night. These mounted on an M16A4 make them stupid-accurate and just palin fast. Worth every penny the Government spends on them. Time spent on a range with a borrowed setup was almost boring due to the lack of effort of putting shots where I wanted at distances of up to 300 meters. No combat experience with them, but that's where you come in.

Have you used the magnifier with the M68?

I currently have an M68 mounted atop a Colt branded M16A4. The magnifier works well (generally requires a spacer for height) but is not practically accurate (IMHO) at distances beyond 150 meter because of a high MOA. It works far better at CQB distances for which it was designed; the ACOG far outshining the aforementioned setup. ACOGs can be used with great effectiveness in CQB modes, but I have only anecdotal evidence to offer as I was not issued an ACOG this time around.