Who are the great generals?

[wm]

WM:

I thought you would have jumped on my Catch 22-General Dreedle, Frank Zappa thing from a previous and recent post on this thread.

But back to LeMay the innovation was his in early 1945 shortly after he took command from Hawyood Hansell of the 21st Bomber Command based out of the Marianas. Hansell (and a great air power thinker and innovator in his own right) had pushed the method of daylight, high altitude precision bombing from from the Marianas but in Arnold's and other high ranking airmen's eyes did not produce results and effects against the Japanese. When LeMay took command in early January 1945 from Hansell he did innovate and substantially altered method by shifting to low level attacks by B29s using fire-bombs against Japanese cities. It is in this conext that i refer to LeMay as innovative.

gian

Gian,

I passed on the Dreedle /Zappa commentary initially because I had a bad case of "deflicted eyes" from having an eskimo named Nanook rub some deadly yellow snow crystals into them. I was also sidetracked by a sudden desire to hear Captain Beefheart crooning on Zappa's Hot Rats song "Willy the Pimp."

We've agreed as to the oustanding quality of "Strangelove" in the movie genre. I submit that Catch-22 occupies a similar place in writing. Too bad that Mike Nichols and Buck Henry destroyed it in the screen version. However, casting Orson Wells as Dreedle was a good choice--the only other persons I might have chosen would have been Ernest Borgnine, based on his performance as General Worden in The Dirty Dozen or Carol O'Connor based on his performance as MG Colt in Kelly's Heroes.

[selil]

This thread reminds me of the discussion I've had in classes: "What can we learn about homeland security from bad science fiction"?

1) The problem at hand was either created by a nuclear bomb or can be fixed by one.

2) You can always go faster if you yell at the engineers.

3) Only one pretty girl will survive (usually a blonde).

4) Tampering with nature will only end up bad.

5) Wait for the bad guy to monologue then attack.

[wm]

This thread reminds me of the discussion I've had in classes: "What can we learn about homeland security from bad science fiction"?

1) The problem at hand was either created by a nuclear bomb or can be fixed by one.

2) You can always go faster if you yell at the engineers.

3) Only one pretty girl will survive (usually a blonde).

4) Tampering with nature will only end up bad.

5) Wait for the bad guy to monologue then attack.

And don't forget, the always popular,

6) The new security guy in the red shirt is always the first to die. (Death is usually prounounced by Leonard "Bones" McCoy: "He's dead, Jim.")

[Gian P Gentile]

Gian,

I passed on the Dreedle /Zappa commentary initially because I had a bad case of "deflicted eyes" from having an eskimo named Nanook rub some deadly yellow snow crystals into them. I was also sidetracked by a sudden desire to hear Captain Beefheart crooning on Zappa's Hot Rats song "Willy the Pimp."

We've agreed as to the oustanding quality of "Strangelove" in the movie genre. I submit that Catch-22 occupies a similar place in writing. Too bad that Mike Nichols and Buck Henry destroyed it in the screen version. However, casting Orson Wells as Dreedle was a good choice--the only other persons I might have chosen would have been Ernest Borgnine, based on his performance as General Worden in The Dirty Dozen or Carol O'Connor based on his performance as MG Colt in Kelly's Heroes.

WM:

The breadth and depth of your pop-cultural knowledge are indeed striking. How many of us "old" (with respectful deference of course to Ken White) Cold Warriors know who "Nanook of the north" is? When was the last time you had a urinalysis done?

Agree and defer to your knowledge on literary classics to which Catch 22 is certainly one of them.

too much fun

gian

[Ken White]

What's a urinalysis? Is it something in FM 3-24 which I've only skimmed and don't propose to read? You guys keep inventing new stuff, hard for an old guy to keep up...

[Ron Humphrey]

What's a urinalysis? Is it something in FM 3-24 which I've only skimmed and don't propose to read? You guys keep inventing new stuff, hard for an old guy to keep up...

We'll fill you in on all the details when you have the NEED TO KNOW

[Gian P Gentile]

What's a urinalysis? Is it something in FM 3-24 which I've only skimmed and don't propose to read? You guys keep inventing new stuff, hard for an old guy to keep up...

Ken:

I heard a rumor ("in the air" hey WM how about that Night Ranger riff; Ken, that is a 80s rock group) that in an earlier draft of FM 3-24 (the one that Ralph Peters read and freaked-out about) there was a 10th Paradox that didnt make the final cut. Rumor has it that it read:

"[Grasshopper] Sometimes the more soup that you eat, the less likely you will come up hot on a urinalysis and the more secure you will be," or something to that effect. Dont really know the underlying meaning to it but i guess if i meditate on it for a while i can figure it out. I did go to UC Berkeley you know; "Not that there is anything wrong with that!"

Pun actually intended here.

gian

[Ken White]

work but what the heck.

All this time I thought being secure entailed firepower and a tight perimeter or rapid movement and battlefield agility...

Uh, well, meditating is okay and I know all you US-B folks are into it but I met a RAND analyst at a conference long ago who had an MS from there and she could meditate over more bourbon than most. Far more. As she said, her meditation enhancement potion of second choice avoided problems on tests.

(I didn't ask what the first choice was )

How, in the 80s with teenagers did I miss the Night Rangers? Though it took me years after those days to appreciate Dire Straits, come to think of it. I'll have to research that with my Music and Pop Culture Advisory Committee who have obviously let me down...

[Gian P Gentile]

...All this time I thought being secure entailed firepower and a tight perimeter or rapid movement and battlefield agility...
How, in the 80s with teenagers did I miss the Night Rangers?

Agree about security although some would argue that you need to become one with the people and protect yourself less and that is how to become secure; you are an old knuckle-dragging fuddy-duddy if you think you need firepower and maneuver to secure yourself. AGAIN, PUN INTENDED HERE.

Dont worry about missing Night Ranger in the 80s. I had teenagers in the early years of the new millennium and i missed the Deftones.

gian

ps; Ken, it is actually Night Ranger (singular); I guess the old infantryman in you just wont die!!

[Ken White]

Smart enough to know when people do not want and have no intention of allowing me to become one with them but willing to take advantage of their inherent politeness when offered? Check.

Follower of the 21st Marine Rule of Combat ("Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet")? Check.

Calluses on knuckles from dragging on ground? Check.

Re: the p.s. -- as Martha Stewart usedta say; "... and this is a good thing..."

[wm]

How, in the 80s with teenagers did I miss the Night Rangers? Though it took me years after those days to appreciate Dire Straits, come to think of it. I'll have to research that with my Music and Pop Culture Advisory Committee who have obviously let me down...

Ken,
Gian knows his Night Ranger 'cause he's a Bay Area boy. Night Ranger was a SF hard rock band with some national appeal. If you want to double dip on your early "Big 80s" nostalgia, you could watch the movie Sixteen Candles and hear Night Ranger's "Rumours in the Air" on the soundtrack.
(I hope you have strong control of your gag reflex--pardon the offense to any Molly Ringwald and Anthony Michael Hall fans out there) If I were you, I'd stick with Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits.

[Ken White]

Ken,
Gian knows his Night Ranger 'cause he's a Bay Area boy. Night Ranger was a SF hard rock band with some national appeal. If you want to double dip on your early "Big 80s" nostalgia, you could watch the movie Sixteen Candles and hear Night Ranger's "Rumours in the Air" on the soundtrack.
(I hope you have strong control of your gag reflex--pardon the offense to any Molly Ringwald and Anthony Michael Hall fans out there) If I were you, I'd stick with Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits.

Pop Culture and Music Advisory Committee -- I do recall watching bits of Sixteen Candles back in the day, on TV. The PCMAC were too cheap to spend $$ on movies and thus monopolized the tube for their cinema...

Hmmm. That may be why I almost never watch TV.

[wm]

WM:

How many of us "old" (with respectful deference of course to Ken White) Cold Warriors know who "Nanook of the north" is? When was the last time you had a urinalysis done?

Gian,

Actually, I had one right after finishing my pancake breakfast at Saint Alphonso's. I was concerned about social diseases after visiting Zappa's "200 Motels."

BTW, I thought that kind of test was a weekly mandatory for guys who had attended UC-Berkeley.