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  1. #61
    Council Member AmericanPride's Avatar
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    I enrolled in AMU for a National Security Studies degree.
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

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    Council Member jkm_101_fso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanPride View Post
    I enrolled in AMU for a National Security Studies degree.
    I'm halfway through it if you need anything or have questions. PM me.
    Sir, what the hell are we doing?

  3. #63
    Council Member AmericanPride's Avatar
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    Thanks jkm. I'll be starting with the research analysis and US national security courses. I intend to do two at a time (possibly three depending on the workload).
    When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Louis Veuillot

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    Default AMU questions

    hello everyone,

    I have a quick question for everyone, I am considering transferring out of AMU, for fear of the school not being recognized in positive light when I apply in the intelligence field. From what I have seen there are not many schools out there that you can recieve an intelligence degree from. Anyone have any advice on which school would be better, and is it common practice for any companies to hire while you are still pursuing the degree. Would like to start gaining experience as soon as possible. Sorry for the trifle questions, just figured you guys may have some answers.

    Warmest,
    Porkchop

  5. #65
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Intell Studies

    Porkchop,

    I suggest you have a look via Google for Dr Steve Marrin, he is one of the leading academics in this field and there is a large academic studies association in the USA. IIRC Mercyhurst College is where he is, or maybe another place that advertises courses?

    I am in the UK and we do have several, long running courses if your US$ can stretch that far.

    davidbfpo

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    Porkchop, what do you base this fear on? I though AMUs reputation was regarded rather highly in DOD and Intel.
    OT-I changed majors from Intel Studies to History only because I fear I won't qualify for a security clearance (plus I find Thucydides incredibly interesting).

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    Council Member Xenophon's Avatar
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    I've decided to wait on doing a Master's at AMU and apply for the Marine Corps' Special Education Program during my second fleet tour. But, I am going to take AMU Master's courses to bolster my educational record for that application. I'm just deciding whether to get a graduate certificate or just take a few courses under the Legal Studies MA Program.

  8. #68
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    Just received my Master's Diploma last week. Very good. One more to go...another five months...
    "Speak English! said the Eaglet. "I don't know the meaning of half those long words, and what's more, I don't believe you do either!"

    The Eaglet from Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland

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    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
    I've decided to wait on doing a Master's at AMU and apply for the Marine Corps' Special Education Program during my second fleet tour.
    Is that really the name for it?!?!? Plays into many, many USMC related jokes if so.
    "A Sherman can give you a very nice... edge."- Oddball, Kelly's Heroes
    Who is Cavguy?

  10. #70
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    Default AMU - MA Legal Studies

    I have no idea of the rigor attached to this program (it expressly disclaims any equivalence to a JD, etc.). That having been said, here is my analysis (for what it might be worth).

    From AMU Master of Arts in Legal Studies (also can be reached from the main Legal Sudies page):

    Core Requirements(24 Hours)

    LSTD502 Criminal Law 3 hours·
    This course focuses on the fundamental principals, concepts, and development of criminal law and the constitutional provisions which govern it. ....

    LSTD503 Criminal Justice Process 3 hours·
    This course addresses the specific constitutional rights, including the fourth, fifth and sixth amendments as those that have a direct impact on the defendant and prosecution in the judicial process. ...

    LSTD504 Methods of Legal Research and Writing I 3 hours·
    Part one of this graduate level two-part intensive legal writing program is designed to develop students’ research and writing skills. Students will learn and practice the skills necessary for identifying, locating, and using legal resources, including primary sources of administrative, statutory, and case law; secondary authority; and research reference tools, to include computer research tools, commonly used in the practice of law. Students will also explore the process of legal analysis, incorporating the results of their legal research into correspondence, case briefs, legal memoranda, and motions.

    LSTD505 Methods of Legal Research and Writing II 3 hours·
    Part two of a two-part graduate level intensive legal writing program is designed to develop students’ research and writing skills. ...

    LSTD506 Property Law 3 hours·
    This graduate course is an introduction to real property concepts. The course surveys present and future estates in land, ownership, and concurrent ownership....

    LSTD508 Contract Law 3 hours·
    This graduate course is designed to introduce students to the concepts and sources of contract law. This course evaluates the various components of a legally binding agreement or promise and surveys the major issues affecting such enforceable agreements. Students will examine what constitutes breach of contract and the remedies available. The role of contracts in the commercial arena and in society will also be analyzed.

    LSTD509 Tort Law 3 hours·
    This graduate course will focus on the fundamental principles, concepts, and development of tort and personal injury law, while combining theoretical and practical applications of such principles and concepts....

    LSTD510 Constitutional Law 3 hours·
    This graduate course will explore advanced principles, doctrines and controversies regarding the structure of and division of powers in American government. Specific topics include judicial review, jurisdiction, standing to sue, federalism, federal and state powers and immunities, the separation of powers among the branches of the federal government, the First Amendment, and the Equal Protection Clause.
    The substantive law courses (all except Methods of Legal Research and Writing I & II) correspond almost exactly with the first year courses (plus a summer school) I took at Michigan Law in the 1960s. It's surprising how much of Contracts, Property and Torts supply the bases for International and Comparative Law. The worth of Criminal Law and Procedure, and of Constitutional Law are obvious.

    We had no formal "Methods of Legal Research and Writing". However, there were informal equivalents if you could make the cut: Law Review, Campbell (Moot Court) Competition, or doing research for pay or glory (). The formal classes seem to me a good thing if they result in some appreciation for the practitioner's side of law.

    As to the Options, I like these:

    Major Requirements(9 Hours)

    IRLS611 Conflict Analysis and Resolution: Theory and Practice 3 hours·
    The course will consider the rationalist approach to conflict analysis, along with other theoretical approaches to international relations theory. It will examine the generic nature of conflict, whether between individuals or nations. It also directly addresses international conflict, its origins, discernible patterns, routine components, range of outcomes, and modes of conflict prevention or amelioration. Conflict resolution theory will be applied to various cases of contemporary conflict among nations. Students will develop a thorough awareness of the origins of conflict, various approaches to conflict analysis and resolution, as well as strategies for conflict prevention.

    LSTD507 International Law 3 hours·
    The course is designed to introduce students to the concepts and sources of international law that evaluate the various components, processes, and functions of the international legal process and consider how international law impacts the laws within the United States. Additionally, the current state of the international legal order is reviewed with legal opinions regarding major philosophies, components and current practices and problems of the field of international law.

    LSTD511 Independent Study in Legal Studies 3 hours·
    This Independent Study is an opportunity for Legal Studies graduate students to pursue an independent research project under the mentorship and discretion of a faculty member. The course requires a major research paper; there will be no examination. Students will submit a request to take the independent study to the Registrar and will include the name of a faculty with whom they have coordinated. Prior to registering, students should first contact the professor with whom they wish to mentor their independent study, coordinate an agreement on the grading requirements, and then NOTIFY their Student Advisor with the name of their professor. The final approval to take the independent study will be made by the Program Director.

    LSTD530 Islamist Lawfare 3 hours·
    This graduate course is a study of the Islamist movement that seeks to impose tenets of Islam and Sha'aria via “legal jihad”. Students will analyze litigation in American courts and abroad against those who speak out against or write about radical Islam. Legal issues such as free speech, forum shopping, “libel tourism,” and anti-SLAPP statutes will be studied. Students will examine the cumulative effects such litigation has on the global war on terror.

    LSTD535 Law of Armed Conflict 3 hours·
    This graduate course is a study of the law of armed conflict in terms of attempts to define, regulate, and mitigate the conduct of individuals, nations, and other agents in war. Students will analyze the historical development and judicial theories surrounding the subject. Legal principles such as the use of force, development and utilization of weapons, individual protections, and criminal responsibility will be examined. Students will also evaluate case law and international treaties on the topic.

    LSTD539 The Federal Rules of Evidence 3 hours·
    This graduate course will examine the rules governing the admission, exclusion, and presentation of evidence in judicial proceedings. The law of evidence governs the proof of facts and the inferences flowing from such facts during the trial of civil and criminal lawsuits. Topics to be covered in this course include relevance; authentication; categorical rules of exclusion; character and habit evidence; witness qualification, competency, and examination; privileges; the “Best Evidence” rule; the hearsay rule and its exceptions; judicial notice; burdens of proof and presumptions; impeachment and rehabilitation of witnesses; and appellate review of evidentiary rulings.

    PADM611 Law and Public Policy 3 hours·
    There is a complex, ongoing interaction between law and public policy in the United States, and with renewed emphasis on deregulation, decentralization, downsizing and reengineering, there is an increasing awareness that public policy, and the administrative law system that manages it, are subject to intensifying political and cultural pressures. The attempt to solve social issues by new laws and regulations has created results that were often unforeseen and has led to increased attacks on the administrative law process in the courts and in legislative chambers. These constant changes have made this a difficult time for public managers. This course examines the sources, operation and consequence of such changes on the law and public policy formation, and analyzes public policy initiatives from political and legal aspects as to their intentions, achievable aims, and intended and unintended outcomes.
    If forced to select 9 credits, I'd go with International Law, Islamist Lawfare and Law of Armed Conflict.

    The capstone seems similar to the Independent Study optional course:

    Final Program Requirement (3 Hours)

    LSTD520 Master's Capstone in Legal Studies 3 hours·
    Preparation for the Legal Studies research seminar begins on day one of a student's graduate program of study. The theories, research methods and analytical skills, and substantive knowledge obtained through their master's curriculum provide the basis for the research seminar project. ...
    On its face, this seems like a decent program - roughly equivalent to 2 years of law school in terms of course content.

    Good luck in its pursuit.

    And, Niel, Marine "Special Education" - and all similar taglines (e.g., from Polarbear1605: "Now Mike, just keep it simple; remember, I'm a Marine.") - are all part of the Corps' "stealth jihad" program to lull the Big Army into complacency.

    Regards

    Mike

  11. #71
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    JMM,

    I would offer a slightly different angle. I've taken courses that dealt with legal topics in graduate school (contracts, torts, property, secured transactions, agency, partnerships, corporate law). I've also taken each of those classes in law school. The course descriptions were very similar, but the approaches were fundamentally different.

    The graduate approach is to familiarize students with basic concepts and to apply them, with the intent of being able to interact intelligently with a legal professional. For example, in business school, the goal was for students to better interact with their in-house counsel. There is little to no emphasis on understanding how the law evolved, how to attempt to change it, and we never read a single case.

    In law school, as you surely recall, it is the exact opposite. The semester generally begins with older cases that have been overturned in whole or in part, followed by the landmark cases that caused the changes, and analysis of the issues in each case, with the intent of the students being able to "spot issues" in any given scenario and argue each side of the issue to make an assessment of how the law is likely to be interpreted and whether/how to approach it.

    By analogy, the former would be equivalent to getting a class on how to select a lawyer, how to prepare for a meeting with him, and what services you can reasonably expect from him. The latter would be equivalent to learning how to address clients' legal needs, how to extract necessary information from them to fully analyze the issues relevant to their situations, and what you can expect to do for them.

    That said, in looking at the core curriculum that you posted, I don't know why a person wouldn't just go to law school. It would probably open more doors and, as you noted, it is very similar to most 1L curricula. Why anybody would subject themselves to the tedium of those courses without getting a JD in return is beyond me. After the 1L year, students can take whatever courses their hearts desire, to include those listed (though my school, I'll admit, does not offer a course on "Islamist warfare" but there are equally enlightening and interested courses to choose from that have an international flavor to them).

    I do agree with your overall analysis that it looks like a good program, though.

  12. #72
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    Default Hi Schmedlap,

    As to this, you presume too much:

    from S
    In law school, as you surely recall, it is the exact opposite.
    and for breakfast this morning, I had ???

    Seriously, I agree with your analysis:

    The graduate approach is to familiarize students with basic concepts and to apply them, with the intent of being able to interact intelligently with a legal professional. For example, in business school, the goal was for students to better interact with their in-house counsel. There is little to no emphasis on understanding how the law evolved, how to attempt to change it, and we never read a single case.
    but it does depend on how the classes are taught - case by case analysis, etc.

    That having been said, I was never fond of the typical Socratic case by case approach, and had a hell of a time with it. Fortunately, I found the wonderful world of hornbooks, which gave me the needed perspective and overview to "ace" first year.

    As to a JD, I don't know whether there are schools equivalent to AMU that offer that. Also, there is the purpose for which the courses are taken - unless you want to be a practicing lawyer (civilian or military), a JD is just fancy window dressing. Nice window dressing though. It's worked for a few generals.

    One way to approach AMU Legal Studies (which may well be a liaison type program as you mentioned) would be to try a few courses. In the Core, the two Criminal Law and Procedure courses, and the Constitutional Law course, would be my choice for starters. All fit into background for the UCMJ. Then follow up with International Law, Islamist Lawfare and Law of Armed Conflict.

    So, a number of choices.

    Regards

    Mike

  13. #73
    Council Member Xenophon's Avatar
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    Is that really the name for it?!?!? Plays into many, many USMC related jokes if so.
    Yeah I know. Probably why they rarely have enough applicants to fill their quota.

    I very much appreciate the analysis of the program, and I understand the reasoning of "Why do the work without getting a JD?" My reasoning went like this. Since the SEP program only accepts applicants for Technical or History programs, I HAVE to do my History M.A. through that program. So, to bolster my academic record, I'm going to "diversify" and take some non-history courses. My next interest after History is Law, but I have no desire or plans to ever practice. So, legal studies looks interesting and I can afford it/get accepted into it/have the time to do it.

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