It's Our Cage, Too

[Sargent]

And now Gen. Mattis has taken the issue to a tactical level -- not just not torturing, but being nice. I suppose it takes a "Mad Dog" to put forth such an idea. "Wave tactics" -- brilliant.

http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php..._Secret_Weapon

[VinceC]

. Sleep deprivation is torture? In that case war crimes are being commited every day against our own troops at the RTB and the Rowe Training Facility

If I understand this argument, I'm going to keep you awake for four days and nights straight, and this is going to result in accurate, reliable, coherent, actionable information on a complex subject?

[Uboat509]

If I understand this argument, I'm going to keep you awake for four days and nights straight, and this is going to result in accurate, reliable, coherent, actionable information on a complex subject?

More so than the alternative which is to do nothing. In any case who says the info has to be complex? A name or a location is usually enough.


SFC W

[VinceC]

More so than the alternative which is to do nothing. In any case who says the info has to be complex? A name or a location is usually enough.

There are other options besides doing nothing.

Sleep deprivation results in hallucinations, waking dreams, incoherency, psychosis and paranoia. It is useful in getting people to sign political statements that they are enemies of the state. It is not useful in getting reliable, timely information. It has been used in Soviet Gulags, Latin American dictatorships and Chinese prisons, nearly always in connection with breaking the will of political prisoners. Using this technique, the name and location you get might end up being Peter Pan, third star from left and sail on til morning.

[LawVol]

Quibling about definitions?? You say that torture is morally wrong and would, I assume, want it outlawed but not provide a definition! Somewhat Kafkaesque don't you think?

So Lance Corporal Snuffy is sent to Iraq, engages in a firefight and captures an insurgent. He wants to ask the guy about the other insrugents; a perfectly legal thing to do. But how does he do it? He doesn't know what torture is because you haven't defined it for him. You're asking him to perform a mission that will bring him into contact with the enemy and will, presumably, require him to attempt to elicit information at some point. He knows he can be prosecuted for torturing the insurgent, but he has no idea what torture is. Is it beating the guy (we'd all probably agree to this)? Is it yelling at him (some would probably argue this)?

A clear definition is what avoids a confusing situation; not some amorphous concept that will certainly cause troops to hesitate when hesitation is not warranted or needed. Our guys are smart enough to distinguish between torture and legitimate questioning techniques if provided a clear and proper definition. Leadership needs to provide this definition rather than speaking in tongues by using such terms as "enhanced interrogation techniques."

[carl]

Kafka!? Who was he? I fly airplanes for a living. If you don't keep it simple I won't understand.

First off, the Lance Corporal has to know the language or he can't ask him anything. And he should know something about the area and the people who live in it or he won't know what to ask him even if he could. You know, all that COIN stuff.

If he can't ask effective questions he should send the guy back to somebody who can. The system outlined in "Suggestions for Japanese Interpreters Based on Work in the Field" would seem to be a good one.

You imply that it is is necessary for the Lance Corporal to go beyond asking the guy things. Why?

If you want definition of what is permitted or not permitted, how about this. Whatever physical action would get a patrol officer in trouble in the US isn't permitted.