Bangladesh: Secular - v- Islamist?

[carl]

Reuters says the death toll is up to 30 now.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...91R0AN20130228

Over at Brown Pundits they say the flight to India has accelerated.

[carl]

Reuters says up to 60 dead now.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/0...lobalCoverage2

[davidbfpo]

An OD article on the context for current events:http://www.opendemocracy.net/opensec...limate-of-fear

Incidentally illegally crossing the border with India can result in death; there is a border fence and para-military border guards.

[carl]

The interesting thing about the way things appear to be setting up over there is you have Islamists, who believe Allah is on their side no matter what they do, vs. the relatives of people who were killed in 1971 who blame the Islamists for the deaths of their kin. They want some back. There doesn't seem to be room for compromise.

[Bill Moore]

Putting this in perspective. There is a long history of violent clashes between the Awami League and BNP (to include BNP's ally and to some extent surrogate force JI). Most assessments indicate the Islamists (JI) represent a minority that is losing steam, but a minority in one of the most densely populated nations in the world is still millions of people and a serious security issue if mobilized to fight.

The BNP/JI appear to be losing steam politically, so it is only natural for them based on their philosophy to resort to extremism to stop the gradual (or not so gradual) liberalization of Bangladesh.

The current level of violence isn't bad relatively based on Bangladesh history. This type of violence is usually short lived, but often repeated (cycles). We won't be able to assess the seriousness of the current crisis until more time passes.

There are two parallel movements that are clashing. One is the anti-Islamist movement that the government and majority represent, and the other is the anti-liberalization Spring movement that the BNP and JI represent. The anti-liberalism movement has nothing to do with freeing oppressed peoples, instead those commiting the violence want to oppress the people of Bangladesh with their brand of Sharia law. One can hope PM Hasina successfully enforces the law in a way that contains the violence while still allowing peaceful protests and the democratic process to work.

Places like Bangladesh are a good bellweather to see whether Islamist extremism is gaining or waning.

[carl]

This is an anti-Muslim Spring movement, it has nothing to do with freeing oppressed peoples, instead those commiting the violence want to oppress the people of Bangladesh....

Places like Bangladesh are a good bellweather to see whether Islamist extremism is gaining or waning.

I have only read a very few articles on this so access what I have to say with that in mind.

It seems it is an anti-Islamist rather than anti-Muslim movement. The really interesting thing is that the trump card the Islamists normally play, the holier than thou card is being vitiated. The two things that are doing that are personal vengeance and sort of an anti-collaborator sentiment. Those two things are a pretty powerful counter to the Islamists' normal arguments. When they say 'Allah is with me.' and are met with 'You collaborated with the Pak Army and killed my uncle.', they aren't so persuasive.

The demonstrators in Shahbag square don't want the Islamist leaders to lighten up, they want them dead, specific Islamist leaders to be killed. That seems a bit unusual.

[Bill Moore]

I have only read a very few articles on this so access what I have to say with that in mind.

It seems it is an anti-Islamist rather than anti-Muslim movement. The really interesting thing is that the trump card the Islamists normally play, the holier than thou card is being vitiated. The two things that are doing that are personal vengeance and sort of an anti-collaborator sentiment. Those two things are a pretty powerful counter to the Islamists' normal arguments. When they say 'Allah is with me.' and are met with 'You collaborated with the Pak Army and killed my uncle.', they aren't so persuasive.

The demonstrators in Shahbag square don't want the Islamist leaders to lighten up, they want them dead, specific Islamist leaders to be killed. That seems a bit unusual.

Carl, good catch, that is not what I meant to write. Actually I was trying to capture the Islamist Movement as a non-liberal movement, but based on your comment I'll add the anti-Islamist movement because there are in fact two movements (neither of which are Springs, they have endured for decades). There is no anti-Muslim movement. I'll correct the post.

To your other point, I think a lot of people are realizing if these Islamist leaders aren't permanently removed they'll continue to be a threat to the safety who want to live their own lives without the extremists dictating what is right or wrong. The extremists feel completely justified pursuing their ends through acts of terror, shooting young girls for going to school, giving a woman who has been raped a 100 lashes because she had sex outside of marriage, and number of other obviously insanely stupid rules. I see nothing wrong with wanting them dead, I hope that movement gains steam.